IIRC the reason Counter was used on Gengar in GSC was to bounce back Earthquakes from things like Snorlax that fell just short of OHKOing, but now Gengar either gets hit by special attacks or physical attacks that OHKO.
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Gengar Discussion
- Thread starter Archmaster Mesa
- Start date
Well, if you are against a pokemon with high attack, your opponent will be more likely to use a physical attack on gengar, just like how you would use WoW on your opponent's physical attacker. I'll try counter out once I get the game, but for now I like hypnosis/focus blast or punch/shadow ball/thunderbolt ^^
how's the EV spread of this semi-defensive gengar?
Nature: Modest
184HP/128Def/196Spd
Stats at lvl 100: 306 HP/188 Def/331 SpAtk/186 SpDef/305 Spd
Moveset that I have in mind
@life orb/expert belt/wise glasses
counter/focus blast/hypnosis/destiny bond
thunderbolt
shadow ball
HP ice
Even if gengar has no EV in special attack, 331 is still a big number. With one of the items I listed above, the slight decrease in special attack is not going to affect gengar's special sweeping ability much. The rest of the EV is spread between HP and Def. It gives a good surprise to your opponent who thinks they can OHKO gengar with their physical attacks. Of course,this gengar is not meant to take hits from guys like garchomp. (I think it can take a stone edge from a jolly garchomp though, if I used the damage calculator correctly.)
Nature: Modest
184HP/128Def/196Spd
Stats at lvl 100: 306 HP/188 Def/331 SpAtk/186 SpDef/305 Spd
Moveset that I have in mind
@life orb/expert belt/wise glasses
counter/focus blast/hypnosis/destiny bond
thunderbolt
shadow ball
HP ice
Even if gengar has no EV in special attack, 331 is still a big number. With one of the items I listed above, the slight decrease in special attack is not going to affect gengar's special sweeping ability much. The rest of the EV is spread between HP and Def. It gives a good surprise to your opponent who thinks they can OHKO gengar with their physical attacks. Of course,this gengar is not meant to take hits from guys like garchomp. (I think it can take a stone edge from a jolly garchomp though, if I used the damage calculator correctly.)
Hypnosis is a good move, but Dream Eater is not. NO ONE will just leave their poke in there to take hits.
Also, I'm against using Sludge Bomb. I know the STAB is tempting, but Poison is one of the WORST attacking types in the game, it's resisted by alot and SE against very little. On the other hand, Ghost/Fighting gives perfect coverage, it's one of the few types that hit EVERYTHING in the game for at least neutral damage. That means use Shadow Ball and Focus Blast. I'd say the last two moves you should be creative with, or make one a backup attack that gives good coverage with Ghost if you're worried about Focus Blast missing.
I think the MAJOR concern facing any Gengar user is not coverage, that seems trivial. The major concern is "what are the primary threats, and how to I outspeed and 1HKO or 2HKO them?" Weavile seems irresistable. Maybe we should just switch out, I dunno.
Someone asked why anyone would use Explosion instead of Dbond. It's because Explosion you can use to somewhat good effect even if you're outspeeded, Dbond only works if you go first (I mean, it WILL still work if you go second, but they'll just mark time with a non-offensive move).
Also, I'm against using Sludge Bomb. I know the STAB is tempting, but Poison is one of the WORST attacking types in the game, it's resisted by alot and SE against very little. On the other hand, Ghost/Fighting gives perfect coverage, it's one of the few types that hit EVERYTHING in the game for at least neutral damage. That means use Shadow Ball and Focus Blast. I'd say the last two moves you should be creative with, or make one a backup attack that gives good coverage with Ghost if you're worried about Focus Blast missing.
I think the MAJOR concern facing any Gengar user is not coverage, that seems trivial. The major concern is "what are the primary threats, and how to I outspeed and 1HKO or 2HKO them?" Weavile seems irresistable. Maybe we should just switch out, I dunno.
Someone asked why anyone would use Explosion instead of Dbond. It's because Explosion you can use to somewhat good effect even if you're outspeeded, Dbond only works if you go first (I mean, it WILL still work if you go second, but they'll just mark time with a non-offensive move).
100% of wifi gengars I've fought have had Hypnosis. Gengars were on `25% of teams I faced. Just thought I'd put that out there.
Here's another defensive gengar but with more offense:
EV: 208 HP/128 Def/112 SpAtk/60 Spd
Stats at lvl 100: 312 HP/188 Def/359 SpAtk/186 SpDef/271 Spd
Same moveset as above but now you give gengar choice scarf to outrun everything. A good mid-late game sweeper.