Ability Tiering Thread and General Ability Discussion (Final Check)

Nominating Quick Feet to B-tier

In all honestly it’s just an inferior ability compared to A-tier abilities, a single boost to speed when statused is pretty weak. In fact the only way I see this really being useful is on a high attack pokemon like Rampardos, and even then you need a rather customized set, which is the definition of a B tier ability. Also speed boost is currently A tier, and it’s pretty much outclassed by it in every way, that Rampardos would rather have speed boost any day for example.
 
Nominating Sturdy to B or C tier

While Sturdy is guaranteed let you survive one attack, it's useless against multi-hit moves. It's also broken by status, weather, and hazards, which are almost guaranteed to be in every battle, meaning that if you want to use it properly, you'll want a spinner, a cleric, and a Drought/Drizzle inducer*. Also, unless it has a reliable recovery move or you have wish support, Sturdy can only come into effect once per battle. Clearly, this shows that Sturdy requires quite a bit of support to be used, which is why I'm nominating it to be moved down.

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*unless the Sturdy-mon is immune to Sandstorm/Hail.
 
No Guard for B-Tier

No Guard would be fabulous on some pokes, as noted above by Raikaria, but on other, such as Haxorus or Ferrothorn, it would be useless, or even detrimental, becuase it would give the opponent perfect accuracy.

A Tier- A Tier abilities are abilities that are great on their own merit, and don’t require specially tailored stat spreads or movepools to make them effective. These abilities can generally be slapped on any Pokémon and that Pokémon would be better for it.

No Guard just doesn't fit the bill for A-Tier
 
Magic Gaurd to S tier

This is kind of a big deal, and in more ways than one. Every single Pokemon in the game would appreciate this ability in some way: defensive Pokemon can not be out stalled with Toxic, and offensive Pokemon can not be worn down by hazards and weather and can pick between a free Life Orb boost or a free Sturdy that can't be broken by hazards. Distribution is somewhat limited at the moment which prevents people from seeing the menace that it truly is, but the ability is seen perfectly in OU on Reuniclus. In the lower tiers, Sigilyph can boost as much as it wants and residual damage can't take it down. While it isn't an "immunity" to status, it is a brilliant ability that allows plenty of Pokemon to overcome crippling weaknesses to an extent that being able to switch in on a certain type (most A-tier abilities) simply cannot match. It's a huge boon against stall, and any abuser really appreciates it.
 
No Guard for B-Tier

No Guard would be fabulous on some pokes, as noted above by Raikaria, but on other, such as Haxorus or Ferrothorn, it would be useless, or even detrimental, becuase it would give the opponent perfect accuracy.



No Guard just doesn't fit the bill for A-Tier
Yeah it does! Almost every poke gets a move with less than 100% accuracy, and often it doesn't use this move because of the low accuracy, and chooses weaker but more accurate moves. Examples are Hydro Pump, Fire Blast, Thunder, Blizzard, Stone Edge, Zap Cannon, Dynapicpunch, Focus Blast, Hurricane, Hypnosis, Sing, WoW, Sleep Powder and many others. Most of those moves can be learned from many pokes, and any poke that would already be viable and could use these moves with 100% accuracy would get a great benefit!

Definitely an A tier ability, but now it is not the time for this, as we have to wait for Tier B nominations.
 
Rediamond, Magic Guard is amazing, and it's one of the best, if not the best, A tier ability. But the description of the S tier says that it often makes unusable Pokemon usable. I don't think Magic Guard does that. You're absolutely right that every Pokemon in the game would appreciate Magic Guard, but after that, the Pokemon still needs to stand on its own merits. It will consistently move most Pokemon up about a tier, and will turn "good Pokemon" into "better Pokemon", but it doesn't give anything the Politoed/Ninetales/Sableye treatment, where it goes from "laughably bad" to "OU worthy". Clefable isn't particularly good even with Magic Guard, because it just had crappy stats. Alakazam is great with Magic Guard, but that's because it's fast and strong without it. Reuniclus is also great with Magic Guard, but it has great bulk and pretty solid power without it. Like I said, it takes pretty good Pokemon and makes them very good. It also takes pretty bad Pokemon and makes them less bad. But it never really "transforms" something from nearly useless to very useful; it just allows most Pokemon to make the best out of what they've already got (in terms of stats/typing/movepool). So in my mind, it's not quite S tier, but it's a cut above most of the other A tier abilities.
 
Agree with VaporeonIce, it is just not good enough for S-tier. Once again I can't just slap onto something and except it to be godly. Yeah it can improve almost any pokemon, but it doesn't reliably make them viable by itself.
 
I'd like to make several nominations of abilities I'd like to at least have people consider moving to B Tier:

Guts - this is a good ability, but it both requires that something want to use physical attacks and have the speed to be able to take down things without simply being wrecked in the process (see Ursaring). It's also not that great on anything defensive since using it would near certainly require using a status orb which would greatly decrease their ability to sponge attacks. It isn't an ability that can be slapped on any Pokemon and make it better (useless to things that are more specially based or defensive) and requires a stat spread customized towards attack and speed to work well. I suppose an argument could be made that Special Attackers could maybe run mixed sets with it or defensive threats could get a boost from being paralyzed or something, but I just don't see it.

Magnet Pull - Another good ability, but I'm not sure it deserves to be A Tier. For something to be effective with it, it requires your movepool to either have set up or ways to kill steels (customized movepool) along with either the power to kill steels combined with the defenses to live long enough for them to not kill you or the defenses to pull of substitute shenanigans like Magnezone (customized stat spread). For example, Probopass has Magnet Pull and is still largely useless because it lacks these characteristics. It also has somewhat of a more specialized purpose in that it only is useful against steel types.

Moxie - I feel similar to guts about this one. It's great on physical attackers (provided they have either enough bulk or speed), but on a special attacker or defensive mon it's not going to do much. I'd say this is especially true for defensive mons as, if I remember correctly, Moxie doesn't activate if something dies from indirect damage.

Quick feet - If you're using it you need either high enough power to kill while on the clock from the status orb I'd presume you're using, some form of reliable recovery to keep you around longer (if you're a special attacker with a burn orb, this would be less helpful for a physical attacker since it would need to hold a toxic orb), or the bulk to pull off some sort of rest set. It also doesn't really help anything defensive that much since they don't want to be burned or poisoned anyway. I suppose they would get a boost from being slightly less slow when paralyzed and from being faster the turn they wake up from sleep or unfreeze, but I don't think that's enough for A tier. I'm withdrawing this one, I forgot that Quick Feet prevents the speed drop from paralysis, which is enough to make it much more solidly A Tier in my book.

Sand Force - Requires a movepool with good ground, rock, or steel moves you want to use (customized movepool), only boosts the power of moves of three types and only if a sandstorm is active (more specialized in purpose or effect), gives immunity to Sandstorm but so does Magic Guard which is also currently A tier (inferior to other A Tier Abilities in this regard)

Swift Swim - Let me make clear this is only due to the fact that Drizzle+Swift Swim is banned (if we aren't taking that into account for the purposes of this list I retract this nomination). Swift Swim would be a solid A tier ability if it weren't for this ban, but because of it, it only really is useful if your opponent is using a rain team or, I suppose, if you're using a rain dance team. I feel like that is a bit more specialized of a purpose than other A tier abilities are from my understanding. I'm also withdrawing this nomination since, as Jimera0 pointed out, Moody makes clear we are ranking these based on a theoretical metagame where ability restrictions weren't in effect like they are currently.

I acknowledge that there are probably good reasons for keeping a lot of these where they are, and I'm perfectly willing to be persuaded the other way. Currently I'm feeling iffy about them though.

Also, on another note, I'm not nominating it, but I think Mold Breaker has been inadvertantly removed from the list.
 
Speed Boost to S Tier

Ham strung only by awful distribution. This is not a listing of the most effective abilities in the metagame, but of the most theoretically effective abilities on their own merits alone. Speed Boost is so good that it defines the Pokemon that get it--if given even a slightly broader distribution we'd see much more of it.

Moxie to B Tier

Great on certain, very specific type of Pokemon, but often outclassed. The distinction between this and Speed Boost, another ability with similar "momentum" mechanics, is that if its distribution was broadened a lot of the mons that would get it wouldn't be able to make any use of it, or simply have better things to do.

Sand Force to B Tier

A mon needs a moveset with strong Ground-, Rock- and Steel-type moves and Sandstorm up to make any use of it. Requires management on both the level of the Pokemon and that on the team to be truly effective.

Magnet Pull to B Tier

Useful, but highly situational.
 
Ok, mega post incoming. I'll be replying to all the nominations so far and then posting my own at the end.

Nominating Quick Feet to B-tier

In all honestly it’s just an inferior ability compared to A-tier abilities, a single boost to speed when statused is pretty weak. In fact the only way I see this really being useful is on a high attack pokemon like Rampardos, and even then you need a rather customized set, which is the definition of a B tier ability. Also speed boost is currently A tier, and it’s pretty much outclassed by it in every way, that Rampardos would rather have speed boost any day for example.

It doesn't matter if it's "as good" as other abilities in the A-Teir; if it meets the definition, it's in. As far as I can tell, Quick Feet fits the bill. While some Pokemon, such as walls and the like, wouldn't really care about it, almost any attacker would love the speed boost from status and ESPECIALLY the semi-immunity to Paralysis. You don't need a specific moveset to use it and it can be pretty game changing (paralyze CB Quick Feet Terrakion, OH SHIT!). It might not be quite as powerful as many A tier abilities, but it's still more powerful than the B-Tier abilities.

Nominating Sturdy to B or C tier

While Sturdy is guaranteed let you survive one attack, it's useless against multi-hit moves. It's also broken by status, weather, and hazards, which are almost guaranteed to be in every battle, meaning that if you want to use it properly, you'll want a spinner, a cleric, and a Drought/Drizzle inducer*. Also, unless it has a reliable recovery move or you have wish support, Sturdy can only come into effect once per battle. Clearly, this shows that Sturdy requires quite a bit of support to be used, which is why I'm nominating it to be moved down.

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*unless the Sturdy-mon is immune to Sandstorm/Hail.

I think I might actually agree with moving Sturdy to B tier. Sure it's a pretty cool ability at all, but it's rarely game changing unless you have the specific moves to make it work (Whirlwind, entry hazards, exact required coverage move, etc.) and even then preventing it from getting broken is difficult in the current metagame. Finally, even when it does work to perfection, it rarely has a truly lasting effect on the game, almost never leading to more than 1 KO, and even only that if you're lucky. Solid B-Tier imho.

No Guard for B-Tier

No Guard would be fabulous on some pokes, as noted above by Raikaria, but on other, such as Haxorus or Ferrothorn, it would be useless, or even detrimental, becuase it would give the opponent perfect accuracy.



No Guard just doesn't fit the bill for A-Tier

The argument you're making would be fine if we were talking S-Tier here, but we're not; this is A tier we're talking about. Unless the Pokemon in question has a remarkably shallow movepool (*cough* Haxorus *cough*), virtually any Pokemon would love the ability to use moves such as Focus Blast, Blizzard, Thunder, Dynamic Punch, Stone Edge, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Draco Meteor, etc. without fear of a miss. The trade off of having perfect accuracy against yourself isn't that big a deal when you consider the fact that YOU are the one with the moveset tailored to that condition. Your opponent won't be packing low accuracy but powerful moves, and even if they did it's usually bad form to rely on them missing in your strategy anyway. It simply takes the guess work out of the equation, and takes the temptation to hope for a miss out as well. Hell, even walls would like it for 100% accurate Status moves and the ability to choose things like Hydro Pump for a little more stopping power. Ferrothorn would like 100% accurate Power Whip and Leech Seed, that's for sure.

Magic Gaurd to S tier

This is kind of a big deal, and in more ways than one. Every single Pokemon in the game would appreciate this ability in some way: defensive Pokemon can not be out stalled with Toxic, and offensive Pokemon can not be worn down by hazards and weather and can pick between a free Life Orb boost or a free Sturdy that can't be broken by hazards. Distribution is somewhat limited at the moment which prevents people from seeing the menace that it truly is, but the ability is seen perfectly in OU on Reuniclus. In the lower tiers, Sigilyph can boost as much as it wants and residual damage can't take it down. While it isn't an "immunity" to status, it is a brilliant ability that allows plenty of Pokemon to overcome crippling weaknesses to an extent that being able to switch in on a certain type (most A-tier abilities) simply cannot match. It's a huge boon against stall, and any abuser really appreciates it.

See VaporeonIce's explanation.

Rediamond, Magic Guard is amazing, and it's one of the best, if not the best, A tier ability. But the description of the S tier says that it often makes unusable Pokemon usable. I don't think Magic Guard does that. You're absolutely right that every Pokemon in the game would appreciate Magic Guard, but after that, the Pokemon still needs to stand on its own merits. It will consistently move most Pokemon up about a tier, and will turn "good Pokemon" into "better Pokemon", but it doesn't give anything the Politoed/Ninetales/Sableye treatment, where it goes from "laughably bad" to "OU worthy". Clefable isn't particularly good even with Magic Guard, because it just had crappy stats. Alakazam is great with Magic Guard, but that's because it's fast and strong without it. Reuniclus is also great with Magic Guard, but it has great bulk and pretty solid power without it. Like I said, it takes pretty good Pokemon and makes them very good. It also takes pretty bad Pokemon and makes them less bad. But it never really "transforms" something from nearly useless to very useful; it just allows most Pokemon to make the best out of what they've already got (in terms of stats/typing/movepool). So in my mind, it's not quite S tier, but it's a cut above most of the other A tier abilities.

S-Tier has to go beyond simply being a great ability; it has to elevate Pokemon all on its own. Magic Guard falls just short of doing that. It certainly makes almost any Pokemon better, and might well be the best A-Tier ability, but it's never going to make a useless Pokemon useful. As such, it falls just short of S-Tier.

This is a multiple nomination post, so my comments will be in bold.

I'd like to make several nominations of abilities I'd like to at least have people consider moving to B Tier:

Guts - this is a good ability, but it both requires that something want to use physical attacks and have the speed to be able to take down things without simply being wrecked in the process (see Ursaring). It's also not that great on anything defensive since using it would near certainly require using a status orb which would greatly decrease their ability to sponge attacks. It isn't an ability that can be slapped on any Pokemon and make it better (useless to things that are more specially based or defensive) and requires a stat spread customized towards attack and speed to work well. I suppose an argument could be made that Special Attackers could maybe run mixed sets with it or defensive threats could get a boost from being paralyzed or something, but I just don't see it.

It requires physical attacks, no speed. Even stuff like Ursaring is terrifying given the right support. Most physical attackers would be better off with guts, especially due to the immunity to Burn damage. I believe that is what referred to in "doesn't require specialized stat spread and moveset" means REALLY specialized, not something along the lines of "must use physical attacks". If over half the metagame can make potent use of an ability, I'm pretty sure that qualifies it as A-tier.

Magnet Pull - Another good ability, but I'm not sure it deserves to be A Tier. For something to be effective with it, it requires your movepool to either have set up or ways to kill steels (customized movepool) along with either the power to kill steels combined with the defenses to live long enough for them to not kill you or the defenses to pull of substitute shenanigans like Magnezone (customized stat spread). For example, Probopass has Magnet Pull and is still largely useless because it lacks these characteristics. It also has somewhat of a more specialized purpose in that it only is useful against steel types.

Probopass is largely useless because it's Probopass, and a perfect example of why Magnet Pull is A-Tier instead of S-tier. Again, A-tier doesn't have to make the Pokemon it's on go from crappy to great. That's the S-tier's domain. And honestly, you don't have to be very specialized to kill steels: you just have to not be Probopass or another equally shitty mon. Anything given the ability to trap Pokemon can usually do something with it, especially with all the defensive steels like Forretress, Ferrorthorn and Skarmory roaming around. Virtually anything with set-up moves can take advantage of those three, and anything with fire or ground type moves of decent power can trap and kill various steels. Again, A-Tier does not have to be good on absolutely everything, but it does need to make most Pokemon the better for it. I think Magnet Pull does that, if only because it gives so many Pokemon the ability to set up to ludicrous levels.

Moxie - I feel similar to guts about this one. It's great on physical attackers (provided they have either enough bulk or speed), but on a special attacker or defensive mon it's not going to do much. I'd say this is especially true for defensive mons as, if I remember correctly, Moxie doesn't activate if something dies from indirect damage.

Same argument as Guts; the requirement to use Physical Attacks does not "Specialized moveset" make. While not every Pokemon would like it, almost any physical attacker would, a massive part of the metagame. Additionally, it's flat out game changing when it does activate. A free +1 to attack can win games in and of itself.

Quick feet - If you're using it you need either high enough power to kill while on the clock from the status orb I'd presume you're using, some form of reliable recovery to keep you around longer (if you're a special attacker with a burn orb, this would be less helpful for a physical attacker since it would need to hold a toxic orb), or the bulk to pull off some sort of rest set. It also doesn't really help anything defensive that much since they don't want to be burned or poisoned anyway. I suppose they would get a boost from being slightly less slow when paralyzed and from being faster the turn they wake up from sleep or unfreeze, but I don't think that's enough for A tier.

You don't need to use a goddamn Toxic Orb or something to have Quick Feet be useful. Quick Feet is useful in its own merit because Status Moves are VERY COMMON, so getting a free speed boost from them is pretty damn awesome for almost any attacker. Again, "must be offensive" isn't a big enough restriction for it to be considered a "specialized moveset". If MOST Pokemon benefit from it, it fits. This isn't the S-Tier, it doesn't need to be universally good on everything.

Sand Force - Requires a movepool with good ground, rock, or steel moves you want to use (customized movepool), only boosts the power of moves of three types and only if a sandstorm is active (more specialized in purpose or effect), gives immunity to Sandstorm but so does Magic Guard which is also currently A tier (inferior to other A Tier Abilities in this regard)

This one I do agree on, as "three types of moves" is a lot more restricted than "Physical attacks". The vast majority of Pokemon would either not benefit from this or benefit very slightly in the form of a slightly powered up EQ. While I don't agree in your comparison to other A-Tier abilities with the Sandstorm immunity, I WILL say that the immunity is a rather small factor in and of itself. It's nice, sure, but unless you're fighting Sand-Stall it's unlikely to be a game changer. There's a reason Overcoat is in the D-Tier (though maybe it does deserve to be a bit higher than that, but that's for another time). Overall, this ability simply makes too little an impact to be A-Tier. We tend to forget that since one of the Pokemon that gets it (Landorus) is perhaps the best user of the ability there could be.

Swift Swim - Let me make clear this is only due to the fact that Drizzle+Swift Swim is banned (if we aren't taking that into account for the purposes of this list I retract this nomination). Swift Swim would be a solid A tier ability if it weren't for this ban, but because of it, it only really is useful if your opponent is using a rain team or, I suppose, if you're using a rain dance team. I feel like that is a bit more specialized of a purpose than other A tier abilities are from my understanding.

No no no, for one, I'm pretty sure we're not supposed to be looking at these abilities in regards to the bans placed on them (or Moody would be F-tier since nothing can use it). Swift Swim is ridiculously powerful, and the only reason it doesn't dominate right now is because we took steps to see that it wouldn't. And even in the current climate, SS is seriously potent simply because of how common rain is in the metagame. You don't even need to run your own rain starter these days; you can simply use it to shred apart opposing rain teams. Swift Swim is definitely A-tier, without a doubt.

I acknowledge that there are probably good reasons for keeping a lot of these where they are, and I'm perfectly willing to be persuaded the other way. Currently I'm feeling iffy about them though.

Also, on another note, I'm not nominating it, but I think Mold Breaker has been inadvertantly removed from the list.

Again, multiple nominations here so I'll be making my comments in bold.

Speed Boost to S Tier

Ham strung only by awful distribution. This is not a listing of the most effective abilities in the metagame, but of the most theoretically effective abilities on their own merits alone. Speed Boost is so good that it defines the Pokemon that get it--if given even a slightly broader distribution we'd see much more of it.

Speed alone doesn't make a good Pokemon. A Pokemon with shitty stats is still going to be shitty even with Speed Boost, because you need to have the ability to USE that speed to be effective. It broke Blaziken because it could use that speed so incredibly effectively; indeed, it's speed was the only thing holding it back last generation. You can't give speed boost to stuff like Cradily or Armaldo and see them become awesome. That's not to say they wouldn't be the better for it; they would, but it alone is not going to make a shitty mon a great one. That qualifies it for A-tier, not S-tier.

Moxie to B Tier

Great on certain, very specific type of Pokemon, but often outclassed. The distinction between this and Speed Boost, another ability with similar "momentum" mechanics, is that if its distribution was broadened a lot of the mons that would get it wouldn't be able to make any use of it, or simply have better things to do.

Often outclassed simply because the Pokemon that have gotten it so far tend to have other A-tier abilities as well, and Moxie is low A-Tier. Give it to something with a lower tier ability and they'd be happy for it. I've already made my argument for this one so I won't bother repeating myself.

Sand Force to B Tier

A mon needs a moveset with strong Ground-, Rock- and Steel-type moves and Sandstorm up to make any use of it. Requires management on both the level of the Pokemon and that on the team to be truly effective.

Already said I agreed, though "Requires management on bothe the level of the Pokemon and that on the team to be truly effective" doesn't really make any sense. I'm thinking you misplaced a word somewhere.

Magnet Pull to B Tier

Useful, but highly situational.

Already made my argument for this one too.

Alright, now for my own nominations.

Moldbreaker, Terravolt and Turboblaze:

These abilities simply do not have the level of impact required for an A-tier ability. Being able to push past a few abilities is generally not enough to make the ability worthwhile, and indeed I'd often choose some B-tier abilities over these ones, which says a lot about the placement. Moldbreaker and clones require that you have the moves, stats and situations that take advantage of it. Remember, bypassing an immunity isn't a big deal if you can hit them super-effectively with a coverage move anyway. As such, only mons that frequently go choiced or are starved for coverage (like Haxorus) will appreciate this ability, and quite frankly there aren't a lot of choice users in this meta that spam attacks that have abilities that affect them. Finally, the other abilities they bypass that aren't immunty granting aren't usually important enough to get through to worry about. Sturdy and Multi-Scale are annoying, but being able to bypass them is only vital in a few situations. In short, these abilities just aren't up to snuff with the rest of A-tier, and fit better in the B-Tier, in my opinion.
 
Speed Boost is one of the most obvious S-tier abilities, I believe. What it does is give Pokemon setup moves they should not have and prevents them from being revenged. At its absolute worst, Speed Boost prevents a Pokemon from being put on a Trick Room team. At its best, it transforms a UU 'mon into a competent Uber (or even more, but I don't want to start theorizing). First: every Pokemon, barring a couple of complete incompetents, has access to Protect. This means every Pokemon is guaranteed at least one boost, and if brought in on something it forces out, can instead get +2. Although Agility sweeps have mostly gone out of favor in 5th-gen, with a simple attack-boosting move, a Pokemon with merely acceptable speed can quickly outpace everything in OU and threaten very high damage. Speed Boost takes any setup move in the game, and tacks on free speed. It also allows for some great Choice sweeps: imagine something like CB Haxorus slamming down Outrages while its speed skyrockets. Speed Boost has the key characteristic of an S-tier ability: it can take a large cohort of otherwise unremarkable Pokemon, and vastly increase their power.

As a small aside, I'd love to see a Substitute+3 attacks set on a Speed Boost 'mon not named Ninjask. Seems brutal.
 
Agreeing with Sturdy and Mold Breaker/Terravolt/Turboblaze not belonging to Tier A.

Sturdy on any offensive mon is not a huge deal, because entry hazards and sand are everywhere. So to use the ability effectively on an offensive poke, you have to provide rapid spin support, make sure that sand isn't on the field or that the poke you are using is Rock/Ground/Steel and not use Life Orb. All these conditions make it quite difficult for an offensive poke to truly benefit from Sturdy.

Now let's go to defensive mons. Defensive mons are called defensive because they are defensive right? Meaning that they defend, or in other words, take hits right? And they usually take hits that they can afford to, not hits that kill them, since they are supposed to survive and defend for you more right? So what Sturdy does for them? It doesn't help them against foes that they should be taking on, since these foes cannot ohko, and against foes that can ohko you should be switching out anyway, since you don't want your defensive poke left with 1 hp right? So except from some rare scenarios, where entry hazards are off the field, and your defensive poke survives the +50 Outrage from the opposing Haxorus and kills back with False Swipe, Sturdy is almost useless on a defensive mon.

So all in all Sturdy is a very situational ability, that belongs in Tier B or even C.

Now about Mold Breaker and the other 2 similar abilities. While certainly useful, there aren't many offensive pokes that benefit greatly from those abilities as explained by Jimera, and this is why this ability is also fairly situational. A good way to realize this, is to take out Mold Breaker on a poke that learns it, and give it another Tier A ability (except the godlike Sturdy of 'course). Most of the times you will see that the poke would be better with another Tier A ability than with Mold Breaker. So this means that either Mold Breaker is the worst Tier A ability, which is possible, or that it doesn't belong in Tier A. I think that the latter is the case!

Finally i am not really sure about Speed Boost. It is certainly one of the 2 best Tier A abilities (the other being Magic Guard), but i am not sure it is in the same league as the Tier S abilities. But now that i think about it, it made an UU poke Uber, and a NU poke UU and OU viable (Sharpedo), so it might deserve the S Tier ranking.
 
Effect Spore should be in D rank, if im not mistaken, most pokemon who get effect spore also have spore, so any physical move could give the attackinging pokemon an unfavorable status, and if it doesnt have spore, it pobably has a different status condition to pass
 
Mold Breaker/Terravolt/Turboblaze to B

I am going to have to agree with the others on this one. A pokemon will more likely then not get nothing out of this ability, sure hitting Brongzong with ground moves is nice, but then you need to know a ground move. Same with hitting Heatran with a fire move. B tier for them.


I am going to WITHDRAW this nom.
 
I think the biggest sell for mold breaker and other abilities like it is the fact that it stops other abilities cold. Imagine if we gave this ability to Skarmory for example, it could both set up on Espeon and whirlwind it out as if there was no problem, a dream for stall teams. Pokemon with insomnia can now be put to sleep, shed skins stops healing status. Of course there are offensive boost to it too such as hitting threw water absorb and thick fat, boosting up against unaware pokemon. Or course some of these are rather situational, but still worth considering as a whole.

@Jamero
While status moves are very common, honestly a single speed boost is rather weak. If you’re looking at it from that angle, wouldn't that same Terrakion want guts a heck lot more or even natural cure. It just seems like this ability is too mediocre at both the speed arena and status to be considering a tier with abilities that clearly outclass it in both respects. It seems to be right up the same ally as marvel scale with a situational defense boost.

I also have to agree with Magnet Pull to B tier. Magneton and Magnezone are very, very special pokemon; they are pretty much the dream pokemon for this ability. But look at all the other pokemon with it in the depths of RU and NU. It’s not even that you need a specialized spread, but a specialized metagame filled with steels with a pokemon with the rights stats and moves to take them down. This ability is highly dependant on the opposing pokemon it faces being steel types. I don't know about you, but that seems very B-tier to me.
 
I think the biggest sell for mold breaker and other abilities like it is the fact that it stops other abilities cold. Imagine if we gave this ability to Skarmory for example, it could both set up on Espeon and whirlwind it out as if there was no problem, a dream for stall teams. Pokemon with insomnia can now be put to sleep, shed skins stops healing status. Of course there are offensive boost to it too such as hitting threw water absorb and thick fat, boosting up against unaware pokemon. Or course some of these are rather situational, but still worth considering as a whole.

@Jamero
While status moves are very common, honestly a single speed boost is rather weak. If you’re looking at it from that angle, wouldn't that same Terrakion want guts a heck lot more or even natural cure. It just seems like this ability is too mediocre at both the speed arena and status to be considering a tier with abilities that clearly outclass it in both respects. It seems to be right up the same ally as marvel scale with a situational defense boost.

I also have to agree with Magnet Pull to B tier. Magneton and Magnezone are very, very special pokemon; they are pretty much the dream pokemon for this ability. But look at all the other pokemon with it in the depths of RU and NU. It’s not even that you need a specialized spread, but a specialized metagame filled with steels with a pokemon with the rights stats and moves to take them down. This ability is highly dependant on the opposing pokemon it faces being steel types. I don't know about you, but that seems very B-tier to me.

Moldbreaker would be great in something like Balanced hackmons where any Pokemon can get any ability sure, but we're judging these abilities in the context of an realistic metagame, where Magic Bounce isn't exactly common. In most cases, it's just going to be wasted space on a Pokemon, though some of course benefit from it.

As for Quick Feet, first off, you're comparing it to other A tier abilities. It doesn't matter if it's outclassed by other A tier abilities; what matters is that it outclasses B tier abilities. Which it does, as I'm sure on most Pokemon you'd rather have Quick Feet than, say, Compound Eyes, Air Lock or Mold Breaker. Saying that a +1 to speed "isn't that powerful" is like saying that Choice Scarfers are useless (Same boost in speed!). And unlike choice scarf, it comes with the ability to switch moves. So basically, it turns any Pokemon with decent attacking stats into a potent revenge killer. Also remember the boost doesn't go away when you switch out, which is a big deal, as it makes Toxic orb sets with Quick Feet viable. Something like Quick Feet Toxic Orb Mamoswine would be spectacularly effective at Revenge killing. You're not thinking of all the possibilities here.

Finally, Magnet Pull is optimized for Magnezon and Magneton? What? You don't realize all the shortcomings those have? 4x weakness to ground, bad set up moves, low speed... I'd much rather have Magnet Pull heatran (So many more steels would be vulnerable) or Magnet Pull Gyarados or Scizor (free set ups all over!) So what if it's dependent on the opponent being steel type; how many teams do you see in OU WITHOUT a steel type? How could being able to take advantage of that to set up to ridiculous heights or eliminate obstacles NOT be a huge advantage? Magnet Pull being B tier is utterly ridiculous; it was originally in S tier for a reason!
 
...It just seems like this ability is too mediocre at both the speed arena and status to be considering a tier with abilities that clearly outclass it in both respects. It seems to be right up the same ally as marvel scale with a situational defense boost.....

...As for Quick Feet, first off, you're comparing it to other A tier abilities. It doesn't matter if it's outclassed by other A tier abilities; what matters is that it outclasses B tier abilities. Which it does, as I'm sure on most Pokemon you'd rather have Quick Feet than, say, Compound Eyes, Air Lock or Mold Breaker....

B Tier- Abilities that are good but not as good as A Tier abilities either because they require a more customized movepool and stat spread to be effective, are more specialized in purpose or effect, or are have affects that are just flat out inferior to the affects of A or S Tier Abilities

I think that this part of the B Tier definition might be causing some confusion. Would it be possible to clear up whether "affects that are just flat out inferior to the affects of A or S Tier Abilities" means 'effects that are outclassed by the effects of A Tier Abilities' or 'effects that are worse than the general level of effectiveness of an A Tier Ability'? None of the other tier descriptions reference the other tiers, and I feel like that might clear up this dispute at least somewhat.

Edit: Also, in addition to Mold Breaker, it appears that Magma Armor and Rattled have inadvertently been removed from the list. I'm not sure what tiers they're supposed to be in but they should probably be added back in.
 
If you have more conciise and clear definitions for the tiers, PM them to me. I have already done my best. Now onto my responses to some of the nominations

Quick Feet

Status attacks are very common, and the odds of a Pokémon finding itself in the path of a toxic or thunderwave is pretty high. If we assume we can’t stop status moves altogether, getting some sort of perk from them is the next best thing. Every Pokémon in the game can draw some sort of use from extra speed, even walls, which can then taunt things faster, get up more entry hazards, or recover HP before its opponent. Sweepers appreciate the boost from quick feet even more, because the number one fucker uppers of sweeps are faster pokes that come in and revenge you. If quick feet is activated, you become much more difficult to revenge kill, and just about every sweeper likes being harder to revenge kill. It gets even better if you walk into a status move, and don’t use an orb to afflict yourself with the condition, because now you are able to not only outspeed a ton of pokes, but if you are packing a life orb or lefties, you gain more firepower or become quite a bit bulkier respectively. Pokémon with sword dance and nasty plot would love this ability, because then the poke not only hits like a tank, but also becomes a nightmare to revenge kill. Many would argue that speed is the most important stat for a sweeper, and that is why the ability that can increase it is worthy of A tier.

Speed Boost

Speed Boost is A tier because it does not make Pokémon in the way that drought and prankster do. A Pokémon needs to already have great attack or special attack to make use of speed boost and the ability often raises the Pokémon a tier in usage, not two or three. Sharpedo already had great attack special attack and speed, but suffered from fraility. If DPP had a RU tier, it would probably see decent usage in that tier, as it does now in UU. If yanmega lost speed boost, it still would be around the same usage thanks to tinted lens, and even if it lost that it wouldn’t drop too much; it has a monster special attack and decent speed. Ninjask is all around shit, so we’ll move on to blaziken. A lot of people say that Blaziken jumped from UU to Uber, which while technically true, misses the fact that blaziken already had OU stats but its niche was already occupied by infernape. With speed boost, it managed to beat out infernape for the spot in OU. The reason Blaziken was sent to Ubers also had a lot to do with its access to baton pass, which in conjunction with speed boost just raped shit. Blaziken was like a perfect storm. Speed boost didn’t break blaziken because the ability itself was broken, it was because blaziken had all the tools to be broken with speed boost, if that makes sense. Speed Boost will make a good Pokémon better. A lot better. But if you slap it on a shitty mon like Linoone, the Pokémon will still be utter shit.

Moxie

I feel that Moxie is A tier because of how quickly a Pokémon can take over a battle with this ability. With most physical sweepers, you expect to get one kill a game with them. Otherwise, you wouldn’t use the mon. If an ability makes a Pokémon better for just doing its job, I’d say that ability is A tier

Sand Force

I agree with this one now.

Mold Breaker

We can assume that Pokémon with better abilities are more likely to be used often, and being able to just flat out ignore some of these abilities would be a boon. Being able to ignore things like magic bounce, multiscale, and even wonderguard would prove invaluable. Basically every defensive ability gets nullified, and this can be very useful to a sweeper, while the ability to taunt, set up rocks, status, etc. with impugnity would be great for just about every defensive poke. This ability is about as good as the abilities aroung it, and I’d say that there are some pretty good abilities out there that I’d appreciate nullified
 
If you have more conciise and clear definitions for the tiers, PM them to me. I have already done my best. Now onto my responses to some of the nominations

Quick Feet

Status attacks are very common, and the odds of a Pokémon finding itself in the path of a toxic or thunderwave is pretty high. If we assume we can’t stop status moves altogether, getting some sort of perk from them is the next best thing. Every Pokémon in the game can draw some sort of use from extra speed, even walls, which can then taunt things faster, get up more entry hazards, or recover HP before its opponent. Sweepers appreciate the boost from quick feet even more, because the number one fucker uppers of sweeps are faster pokes that come in and revenge you. If quick feet is activated, you become much more difficult to revenge kill, and just about every sweeper likes being harder to revenge kill. It gets even better if you walk into a status move, and don’t use an orb to afflict yourself with the condition, because now you are able to not only outspeed a ton of pokes, but if you are packing a life orb or lefties, you gain more firepower or become quite a bit bulkier respectively. Pokémon with sword dance and nasty plot would love this ability, because then the poke not only hits like a tank, but also becomes a nightmare to revenge kill. Many would argue that speed is the most important stat for a sweeper, and that is why the ability that can increase it is worthy of A tier.

Speed Boost

Speed Boost is A tier because it does not make Pokémon in the way that drought and prankster do. A Pokémon needs to already have great attack or special attack to make use of speed boost and the ability often raises the Pokémon a tier in usage, not two or three. Sharpedo already had great attack special attack and speed, but suffered from fraility. If DPP had a RU tier, it would probably see decent usage in that tier, as it does now in UU. If yanmega lost speed boost, it still would be around the same usage thanks to tinted lens, and even if it lost that it wouldn’t drop too much; it has a monster special attack and decent speed. Ninjask is all around shit, so we’ll move on to blaziken. A lot of people say that Blaziken jumped from UU to Uber, which while technically true, misses the fact that blaziken already had OU stats but its niche was already occupied by infernape. With speed boost, it managed to beat out infernape for the spot in OU. The reason Blaziken was sent to Ubers also had a lot to do with its access to baton pass, which in conjunction with speed boost just raped shit. Blaziken was like a perfect storm. Speed boost didn’t break blaziken because the ability itself was broken, it was because blaziken had all the tools to be broken with speed boost, if that makes sense. Speed Boost will make a good Pokémon better. A lot better. But if you slap it on a shitty mon like Linoone, the Pokémon will still be utter shit.

Moxie

I feel that Moxie is A tier because of how quickly a Pokémon can take over a battle with this ability. With most physical sweepers, you expect to get one kill a game with them. Otherwise, you wouldn’t use the mon. If an ability makes a Pokémon better for just doing its job, I’d say that ability is A tier

Sand Force

I agree with this one now.

Mold Breaker

We can assume that Pokémon with better abilities are more likely to be used often, and being able to just flat out ignore some of these abilities would be a boon. Being able to ignore things like magic bounce, multiscale, and even wonderguard would prove invaluable. Basically every defensive ability gets nullified, and this can be very useful to a sweeper, while the ability to taunt, set up rocks, status, etc. with impugnity would be great for just about every defensive poke. This ability is about as good as the abilities aroung it, and I’d say that there are some pretty good abilities out there that I’d appreciate nullified

Just one nitpick, Blaziken with Speed Boost doesn't have access to Baton Pass. This is because only Male ones are released. Also, I have been convinced that Mold Breaker and its clones are actually A material. I was a bit narrow minded when I put that up and only acted as if just the attacker could have any ability, which is not true to our experiment.
 
If you have more conciise and clear definitions for the tiers, PM them to me. I have already done my best.

I don't think new definitions are necessary, I'm just asking for a little clarification on what you mean by "affects that are just flat out inferior to the affects of A or S Tier Abilities." I've been looking at it as "effects that are outclassed by a combination of one or more A tier abilities" (AKA abilities that, while good, are not as good as specific A tier abilities). However, if it was supposed to be understood as "effects that don't meet the general level of effectiveness of A tier abilities" (AKA abilities that, while good, are not as good as A tier abilities in general), I've going about this wrong.

Just looking over the list and listening to what people are saying, I could see it working either way. For instance, Heatproof is currently B tier when I don't see why any mon wouldn't be better with a free fire resistance and half damage from burn slapped on it. This would seem to point towards the 'specific' interpretation of the definition, since, while no ability functions exactly like it, Heatproof is still largely outclassed both on the granting resistances front (by thick fat and flash fire) and on the reducing damage from status front (by magic guard). However, several people have stated that in the case of Quick Feet vs. Speed Boost and Magic Guard that it doesn't matter that the combination outclasses since Quick Feet is still as good as other A tier abilities. By this logic, it would appear the 'general' interpretation of the definition would be the more accurate one.

tl;dr - I don't want a new definition, I'd just like to know whether that phrase at the end of the b tier definition is meant to be understood specifically or generally.

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So what if it's dependent on the opponent being steel type; how many teams do you see in OU WITHOUT a steel type? How could being able to take advantage of that to set up to ridiculous heights or eliminate obstacles NOT be a huge advantage? Magnet Pull being B tier is utterly ridiculous; it was originally in S tier for a reason!

But the difference as specified in the OP of what makes something a B tier ability instead of an A tier ability doesn't have anything to do with how good the ability is provided the conditions that it requires are met. What it does mention is that B tier abilities are "not as good as A tier abilities... because they... are more specialized in purpose or effect." You're right that currently the OU metagame is saturated with Steel types, but this won't necessarily be the case indefinitely and Magnet Pull is dependent on a situation like this to be effective.

Compare that with other A tier abilities. Speed boost gives you free speed every turn no matter what, it isn't dependent in the slightest on anything other than that. The immunity granting abilities are powerful enough to turn a 4x weakness into a strength. Give Flash Fire to Scizor and suddenly one of the easiest ways to beat it is gone regardless of whatever else happens. Now look at Magnet Pull. Yes, if the situation is right then you get a free kill or ludicrous set up, but the requirements for you to get the benefits of the ability are much more specialized than for other A tier abilities. First you need to be facing a team with a steel type (which I will admit for the foreseeable future is not particularly rare), then you need to manage to set up a situation where said steel mon and your magnet puller are out at the same time, then you need to either be able to take down said steel before it gets away (volt switch, u turn, shed shell, baton pass) or kills you or be able to set up on it with it unable to do anything back (remember Magnezone quad resists steel attacks like Scizors bulletpunch, a characteristic it shares with only Rotom-H, Rotom-W, Lanturn, Heatran, and Empoleon IIRC, and has the most resistances out of any mon in the game).

If you look at it that way, you have an ability that gives you a free kill and potentially ludicrous set up against a maximum of 5-6% of all Pokemon provided you have the stats to kill or the stats and defensive typing to set up ridiculously against them. Yes it's a great ability, but it's one that is only useful in specialized cases, one of the big differences in my book between an A and B tier ability. I think of it like Magic Guard in a sense. Magic Guard is a really good ability, maybe better than all the other A tier abilities, but it's not able to make bad Pokemon good so it's only A tier. Magnet Pull is also a really good ability, probably better than all the current B tier abilities, but it's not useful outside of one type, a level of specialization in effect that places it under the current stipulations of B tier in my book.
 
I've been working under the assumption that we're rating abilities in the context of the OU metagame (where all the current Pokemon and abilities exist), rather than a hypothetical metagame where any Pokemon can have any ability (Balanced or regular Hackmons). If we're not talking about abilities in the context of the current OU metagame (i.e. saturated with Steel-types, very few Magic Bounce users, etc.), then this shouldn't be in the OU subforum.
 
This thread ranks the abilities in the context of OU like metagame. Think about it like if we add a new random pokemon into the metagame, which abilities would it like the most and which would it like the least. that is basically how I started with my initial tier list. In that context, I feel Like magnet pull is A Tier because in just about any metagame a dispraportionately large amount of steel types will be used because steel is such a great typing. With that being said, being able to trap and eliminate steels will always be a boon and almost any pokemon with magnet pull with OU level stats will be able to do just that.
 
All right fair enough, in that case I suppose my critique was a bit less justified than I initially thought. I'm still not entirely sold on it being A tier, but I am mostly and whatever uncertainty I have left is in all likelihood just me being contrarian. To be honest, it would seem really weird to have abilities like Magnet Pull in the B tier of any tier list. It just seems like the tier definitions are still a little unclear to me since, from my reading of it, things like for instance "these abilities can generally be slapped on any Pokémon and that Pokémon would be better for it" and abilities that "are more specialized in purpose or effect" are not necessarily mutually exclusive. After all, now that I think about it at least from my perspective, one could argue that even abilities like Water Absorb which are clearly really good are specialized in that they only work against one attacking type.

Anyway, since we're supposed to be viewing things in the context of the current OU metagame, would something like this be somewhat of an approximation of how they were meant to be understood?
S tier - Abilities that make anything viable unless its something unsalvageable like Magikarp or Cascoon (and even then, maybe if the ability is good enough)
A tier - Abilities that make most Pokemon that are already viable in OU even more viable, Pokemon that were already almost viable in OU viable sometimes, and maybe give a niche to some nonviable stuff occasionally given the right circumstances (aka stuff like Storm Drain Gastrodon, Unaware Quagsire, etc.)
B tier - Abilities that will make most stuff that's already viable for OU a little better but won't really do anything for anything else
C tier - Abilties that often won't even give a boost to stuff that's good already most of the time, though it might occasionally given the right circumstances
D tier - Similar to C tier but the circumstances where it will do anything are even rarer
F tier - Completely useless or harmful to everything

Also, if we're viewing this from the context of a random new mon being added into the OU metagame how are ability bans taken into account? For instance, the way the metagame stands we've already come to the conclusion that pretty much anything with Moody is broken beyond belief and the addition of one mon with the ability wouldn't do anything to change that. By that standard a new mon, somewhat counter-intuitively wouldn't want Moody at all, because it wouldn't be able to use its ability. In an OU like metagame Moody makes anything with it completely useless in that it can't be used so by that standard it would be F not S (or maybe G - God tier abilities that make anything with it not only good but ridiculously broken almost without exception; abilities that, are simultaneously the best and worst in the game since they turn anything godly but also will almost certainly be unusable, in that they will be banned and thus will be unable to be used).
 
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