idea on anti-meta starter (Dragonite!)

SimPleeMe


Dragonite @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Inner Focus
EVs: 196 SAtk/156 Spd/112 Atk
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
-Aerial Ace
-Brick Break
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt

It has enough EVs with scarf to outspeed anything with 125 base speed (weavile) or lower, unless it scarfs too. It has the EVs to ohko garchomp, and salamence with ice beam, brick break 2hkos tyranitar, 2hko blissey and ohko weavile, aerial ohkos heracross, and should ohko infernape (might be 2hko), and thunderbolt for gyara/ waters.
I know this seems bad at first leading with a scarf dnite, but I am really not seeing many downfalls here. Am I just being stupid and missing something here, or could this work?
 
Why run Modest when you have two physical attacks? The -def nature might be better (Mild for SpAtk or Lonely for Atk).
 
Swampert laughs at this set, barely taking anything from Aerial Ace / Brick Break / Ice Bea,. You also forgot that Weavile / Gengar carry Timid or Jolly respectively and they will still outspeed this with these positive natures.

So consider running a Hasty nature. However, beware of Swamperts
 
This outspeeds Weavile with 252 speed EVs and jolly, which is faster than gengar, so it will outspeed gengar as well. Modest because it still allows me to ohko what I need to with the ev spread because the physical attacks still do enough damage, and I don't want to risk losing to an ice beam/punch with a -def/sdef nature.
And yes swampert hurts, but no pokemon is good against everything (non uber anyway).
Also the surprise factor should be nice, because most people won't expect something like this.
 
LocoUser said:
Still, the occassional Swampert will still defeat you if you aren't ready. Less common isn't an excuse
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Although, I could always switch out. Tyranitar will be defeated by the occasional swampert, does that make him a bad pokemon? Just saying one pokemon weakness doesn't ruin me. For the most part this should counter most popular starters in d/p, and can do some damage late game too.
 
Choco said:
Leading weaviles often carry focus sash. It will ice punch dragonite if it survives the hit.
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I have never seen a Weavile carry focus sash over choice band, however if it does, it will NOT ohko Dragonite without the choice band, so I still kill it anyway.
 
I just did some damage calculations and it seems that Weaviles who do carry Choice Band and Ice Shard will not OHKO Dragonite with a single attack.

I believe it does somewhere near 85% to non-Lonely(95% to Lonely) unless I did my calculations wrong. I saw a couple Ice Shard Weavile so it really depends.
 
Sekku said:
I just did some damage calculations and it seems that Weaviles who do carry Choice Band and Ice Shard will not OHKO Dragonite with a single attack.

I believe it does somewhere near 85% to non-Lonely(95% to Lonely) unless I did my calculations wrong. I saw a couple Ice Shard Weavile so it really depends.
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I believe you did your calculations right, because I know for a fact that dragonite will not die in one hit from a ice punch/ice beam/ice shard.
 
SimPleeMe said:
That is absolutely incorrect. It is pretty common knowledge that dragonite doesn't get OHKO'd by those. It's one of the few advantages it has over garchomp/salamence.
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It's common knowledge he doesn't get OHKOed by un-stab'd IB/IPs from bulky waters. If they have lots of SpAtk EVs/IVs or have STAB it's a OHKO.
 
Assuming Dragonite has a Defense+ nature with max defense and HP, and Weavile has a neutral nature, hopefully I did this correctly:

Choice Band Weavile Ice Punch against a Dragonite: 136%-160%

Common knowledge means nothing. Let's take Cresselia-assumin Dragonite has a max SDef nature with max SDef and HP EVs, and Cresselia has Modest nature with max Special Attack EVs (let's assume):

Ice Beam against Dragonite: 60%-71%

Around a 2-3HKO.

So no, Dragonite still falls to Ice attacks. It doesn't really take them as well as Garchomp / Salamence / Flygon. Most Ice attacks will at best 2HKO these dudes
 
An Anti-Meta starter needs to be able to handle Focus Sash users(WHICH I HATE HATE HATE). Also, Aerodactyl is a really good starter, being able to take out Gyarados/Salamence if its CB'd, which most are.

Dragonite is better off waiting in the wings, making sure the things that can stop its rampage are gone and finally, rampaging.
 
LocoUser said:
Assuming Dragonite has a Defense+ nature with max defense and HP, and Weavile has a neutral nature, hopefully I did this correctly:

Choice Band Weavile Ice Punch against a Dragonite: 136%-160%

Common knowledge means nothing. Let's take Cresselia-assumin Dragonite has a max SDef nature with max SDef and HP EVs, and Cresselia has Modest nature with max Special Attack EVs (let's assume):

Ice Beam against Dragonite: 60%-71%

Around a 2-3HKO.

So no, Dragonite still falls to Ice attacks. It doesn't really take them as well as Garchomp / Salamence / Flygon. Most Ice attacks will at best 2HKO these dudes
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What? Salamence and Flygon can NOT take two Ice attacks. I don't even think they can take an Ice Shard. Dragonite and Garchomp are the "defensive" dragons.
 
Firestorm88 said:
It's common knowledge he doesn't get OHKOed by un-stab'd IB/IPs from bulky waters. If they have lots of SpAtk EVs/IVs or have STAB it's a OHKO.
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Ah, I see yes this is true. But still, most weaviles will be carrying choice band, I guess a focus sasher is something that I need to look out for.
I know outrage dragonite is solid, but my idea was a starter that can take out most popular starters and threats. Besides the random focus sasher, anything else I am missing? (Besides swampert because no one will start with pert).
 
Other than that, good Dragonite. I fucking hate Choice Scarf though, what hope does a Weavile / Bronzong lead have now?
 
LocoUser said:
Other than that, good Dragonite. I fucking hate Choice Scarf though, what hope does a Weavile / Bronzong lead have now?
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I know, I never liked Choice Scarf either, but it is essential to outspeed popular starters (weavile, infernape, etc. etc.).
And do you mean weavile and bronzong vs me? Assuming weavile does't have focus sash, I just brick break. As for bronzong, I don't have a fire move so I guess just thunderbolt for neutral/switch.
 
Of course, but if the metagame shifts to leads using the Choice Scarf to outpace Weavile leads, then Weaviles will run CS's too to shift WITH the metagame. I was more concerned about his comment that he had little hope for Weavile.
 
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