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BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Tobes
- Start date
Where is the picture? Many people here, including me, were under the impresseion that it could be a possible male only.
Also, why else would Game Freak would Breloom only release Breloom but not Shroomish >_<
HAHAHAHAHAHA. HAHAHA. HAHA. HA. HA...
Oh, you're not joking.
Here's some things you may have not known/missed:
1. I read all the Suspect Test threads, so I already knew about that discussion.
2. Following from point 1, this is why my post only mentioned hitting Sand Veil. Reading comprehension: It's not just for adults anymore!
3. Not only is Sand Veil misses a big reason Garchomp was banned (not stating as fact, but inferred from your own post, that I quoted), but it was also recently a factor in the discussion that banned Sandstream in the UU mega-thread, as Snow Cloak was in the UU discussion for banning Snow Warning.
4. iirc, Sand Veil was originally declined as a suspect to vote on by Philip (or it may have been Jabba, can't remember) because nobody who suggested it mentioned how it would affect the Pokemon who use it. At this point, we now have an alternate ability for every SV/SC user (except Beartic), so right now a straight ban on Sand Veil(/Snow Cloak) would basically trade Cacturne's ability to run Focus Punch and (lol) Bullet Seed (and Beartic if we extend this to Snow Cloak) for Garchomp in OU and possibly (though not likely) Sandstorm out of BL.
I think this is a fair trade; of course, I also feel that the effect on lower tiers isn't worth considering, since as basically off-shoots of OU I feel that competitive policy should only be actively concerned with OU (aka they can deal with it).
5. I feel we're long overdue to add SV/SC to the Evasion clause for the reason you mentioned in the post I quoted. I know this is a personal opinion, so feel free to disagree, as you seem to so far.
EDIT: BTW, I don't feel like arguing this point further; I just saw a reason given for not re-testing Garchomp, mentioned that the given reason need no longer apply if we remove the apparently-offending and much-discussed aspect, then responded to a possibly imagined attack at my character.
There's also small chance that the 20% won't work either even if you spam Substitute. Plus, the only Pokemon that even have Sand Veil are Cacturne (Slow and Frail), Sandslash (no priority and slow), Garchomp (banned from OU), Dugtrio (Needs Arena Trap to not suck), Gliscor (usually uses Poison Heal), and some DW Pokemon that are all really slow and don't have STAB priority moves. Gliscor and Cacturne seem like the only ones that can even think about sweeping you, and Cacturne isn't common anywhere, and Gliscor isn't too much of a sweeper (I don't see how it would sweep your team if it nabs a Swords Dance boost).
I just don't see how so many people supposedly lose to Sand Veil when all the abusers are uncommon, or for Gliscor, rarely use the ability. It seems extremely frustrating, especially when you are facing something like Garchomp, but in the end you have to treat a miss that like Scald burning your Pokemon (which happens 30% of the time and the move is on tons of teams), Hydro Pump missing on Rotom-W, Jirachi flinching your Pokemon 3 times in a row (21.6%, which is even higher than missing Sand Veil once). Its kind of hard to ban a strategy given to Pokemon that can't really use it.
If you really hate the ability and all this seems to pass by you, Politoed and Ninetales exist to change the weather, as well as Pokemon that break Substitutes like Mamoswine and Technician Breloom. UU may not have this stuff, but the abusers suck even more thanks to no Gliscor.
Finally, Sand Veil may have helped ban Garchomp, but Garchomp is amazing even outside of Sand. 102 Speed, Swords Dance, excellent STAB coverage... it was really good anyway! Also, the evasion clause really changed NOTHING for the metagame. Nobody used Brightpowder anyway.
I personally have never ran into a Sand Veil user in OU, and I play Pokemon a lot. If I did, it was some Gliscor that died before it did anything at all, most likely.
I hink the reason for the evasion clause and thY a sand. Be ban could be viAble is.because evasion makes the outcome of the match based on luck not slill.
Sorry for grammer but its really hard to type on a phone.
Sorry for grammer but its really hard to type on a phone.
Maybe you need some reading comprehension bro, cuz you just screwed that up bad. I never said Sand Veil was a big reason in Garchomp's banning (although tbh it was a big factor, though by far not the only one or possibly even the biggest), you seem to have read between the lines.
Additionally, your post mentioned Sand Veil in the context of bringing Garchomp back, so don't pretend it wasn't perfectly reasonable for me to assume you meant get rid of it on Garchomp only. An analogy: If we were talking about milk, and you suddenly said you like ice cubes in your beverages. I could only guess that you mean you like ice cubes in your milk.
You're right that most of the collateral damage from banning those abilities is now a non-issue, so a ban could be a possibility. But again, given your post, it seemed as if you meant Garchomp only. About your opinion on Evasion Clause - I wouldn't mind a ban on Sand Veil, although I'm not gonna advocate for it either. But if it is banned, I think it shouldn't go under Evasion Clause. I think it should just go to Ubers, like Moody did, for being ridiculous.
Oh, and the attack on your character was imagined. I wouldn't insult you for saying what I presumed you said. ;) Unless you say something REALLY stupid, like this one guy from the suspect tests (I don't remember his name) who wanted to bring Arceus and Mewtwo and shit down from Ubers
Are we seriously going to discuss that shit again? Can't we just gaze into Breloom and fall in despair?
The chance isn't that small, if you do a binomial distribution over 4 values of k, the probability that sand veil doesn't work in 4 turns is less than 60%
and yes math class is useful
Wow, more OP weather support :/ If 50% of teams weren't weather a month ago, over 50% will be now. And I was looking forward to playing OU again.
Can anyone give me any hope or is there pretty much no chance that every team won't be weather?
Saw techniloom on serebii. Shat a brick.
Can anyone give me any hope or is there pretty much no chance that every team won't be weather?
Saw techniloom on serebii. Shat a brick.
No offense, but we have a ton of huge changes to the metagame, and we're talking about... Sand Veil? An ability no one uses? Really?
So yea, what do guys think about the new Therian Formes? Is Thunderus-T as powerful as his Incarnent forme? Is Tornadus-T better than Tornadus-I? I say yes to both. On Thundurus, 145 SpA is terrifying, especially with a powerful stab Thunder. The Scarf set is particularly good, as it remidies his nerfed speed. I can also rip apart slower teams with NP. Tornadus-T is a bit underrated IMO. That speed boost is great, as it lets him outspeed stuff like Starmie, Dugtrio, and adamant bully DNite which Tornadus-I cannot. The drop in power is too bad, especially seeing as he has excellent coverage in Hammer Arm/Superpower to hit quite a few Hurricane resists.
And Winston, here's something to give you hope... yea, I got nothing. Have fun playing rain over 50% of the time.
So yea, what do guys think about the new Therian Formes? Is Thunderus-T as powerful as his Incarnent forme? Is Tornadus-T better than Tornadus-I? I say yes to both. On Thundurus, 145 SpA is terrifying, especially with a powerful stab Thunder. The Scarf set is particularly good, as it remidies his nerfed speed. I can also rip apart slower teams with NP. Tornadus-T is a bit underrated IMO. That speed boost is great, as it lets him outspeed stuff like Starmie, Dugtrio, and adamant bully DNite which Tornadus-I cannot. The drop in power is too bad, especially seeing as he has excellent coverage in Hammer Arm/Superpower to hit quite a few Hurricane resists.
And Winston, here's something to give you hope... yea, I got nothing. Have fun playing rain over 50% of the time.
Ninetales Rest-talk
Even though it could still be a huge help, instead of pain split having Rest. Because having rest-talk is good for absorbing Sleep Powder, Breloom’s Spore and Smeargle’s Spore too.
Even though it could still be a huge help, instead of pain split having Rest. Because having rest-talk is good for absorbing Sleep Powder, Breloom’s Spore and Smeargle’s Spore too.
Tornadus-T seems insanely freaking good. Regenerator and the Speed Boost was HUGE. Have to carry a fast Scarfer just to revenge it.
OH. MY. GOD. YES.
This is amazing! Mach Punches as strong as Scizor's Bullet Punch (but with much better typing), not to mention Bullet Seed being a force of nature on Technician Breloom (at worst, it's 75 BP, and at best, it's 187.5 BP, not to mention it goes through subs). SD Breloom is going to be awesome, especially since there is no sign of Shadow Tag Chandelure yet (so a CB set isn't far fetched at all).
Hell, you can run Force Palm and then you get a 90 Base Power move that paralyzes 30% of the time. Alternatively, Low Sweep has the same base power and lowers speed. You could even run a gimmicky Wake-Up Slap + Spore set if that's your cup of tea (does technician happen before or after Wake-Up Slap's effect?). However, the best fighting move to run is Mach Punch imo.
I'm so ready to use Technician Breloom.
The incomplete English patch for the ROM would be my guess
Wait a sec TechniLoom is out? Fuck........
Oh well :( Maybe UU can be fun.
If it gets too crazy in OU with B/W 2 then stuff might start getting hit with the Uber stick soon XD
:) I forgot about that. Hopefully weather will get hit something that solves the problems for real this time after it gets used on 75% of teams and is broke open. (Rain I'm lookin at you now.)
