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Normal types- as strong as Whitney's miltank (and then some)

I actually like the idea of a swords dance licki. What would a decent set look like in terms of evs?

The immediate one I think of is 252hp/252atk/4spd.

Lickilicky (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Power Whip
- Aqua Tail

???
 
You might want return on that set, I for one can't really see what earthquake is hitting as Probopass can't do jack to it and rest of the rocks hit harder by power whip (oh and don't mention metang as he is terrible) The set NoLuckInvolved has been using on the ladder has enough speed evs to outpace golem aiming for min regirock is all I know, and utilizes Substitute/Return/Swords Dance/Power Whip.
 
Yup the set I settled on was:

Lickilicky (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 224 HP / 32 Atk / 128 SDef / 124 Spd
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Body Slam
- Power Whip

The Spe EVs are to allow it to outspeed standard Alomomola which iirc is most if not all notable walls in the tier. The HP EVs give it 101 subs rounded up to a lefties number +1 (to allow 5 subs). I found that a lot of opponents tried to get around it with Volt-Switching, so I gave it enough SpDef for Rotom-S to never break its sub with Volt-Switch. The rest are in attack.

As a wall-breaker it is formidable, since it has 101 subs most dedicated physical walls are turned into set up bait. It is so specially defensive that even moderately powerful special sweepers struggle to break its subs (around Rotom-S power etc). Body Slam was chosen over Return because of its trollyness, but more seriously because Return doesn't net any important KOes (but seriously trollyness is always an important factor). Power Whip is probably its most powerful weapon of all because Rock types typically sent in to try to stop it is obliterated. Oh and it crushes Unaware Quagsire too, especially after they let you set up to +6 thinking they are doing the trolling.

I had always wanted to use Licky offensively and this set came about after a few months of tweaking although admittedly I have not laddered nearly as much as I would've liked. So the cat is out of the bag now... mumble mumble... can't say I don't do anything for you whippersnappers... mumble mumble...
 
I'm actullay using a mono-normal NU team right now. I use Kecleon for my stealth rocks and trick room, then I send out Granbull or Ursaring to sweep. Kanga-i-dont-know-the-spelling for priority. Sub Tauros against all ghosts. Scarf Cincinno for the swift swim abusers and sturdy sawk. Works pretty well:) Maybe I'll do an RMT. I never done one but I'm thinking about it...
 
Slaking should totally be in there, in double battles a skill swap from a dream world Stantler can really make it a sleep immune powerhouse
 
I have successfully used a Girafarig set to counter the most used sleep inducers. With Sap Sipper and normal/psychic type, while equipping a Choice Scarf it scares Exeggutor, Amoonguss and outspeeds Butterfree. It can even Trick the Scarf on some switch-ins and mess up with eviolite.
 
The counter argument to Girafarig is that Miltank does everything it does better, except for Trick. Even then, Stantler can do everything as well since it also has Trick and makes better use of Sap Sipper.

Girafarig's only niche might be playing support (it can set up screens and Baton Pass, but Swoobat does the former better) or using a Calm Mind set, having decent STAB in Hyper Voice and Psychic/Psyshock.
 
Togetic seemed interesting to me, so I decided to test out a somewhat gimmicky set:

176.png

Togetic @Eviolite
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP/252 SpA/4 Spe
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)
-Nasty Plot
-Roost
-Hyper Voice
-Fire Blast

This set may come across as an inferior Togekiss, but I say otherwise! BW2 was very kind to Togetic and gave it the gifts of Nasty Plot, Hyper Voice, and Roost! This made an offensive set viable, imo. It's low HP is a real bummer, but Roost somewhat fixes the problem and contributes to Togetic's longetivity.

Nasty Plot is the crux of the set, turning Togetic into a dangerous sweeper. +2 on anything is dangerous! Hyper Voice is Togetic's only reliable STAB move, which sucks. However, Hyper Voice is strong after a boost and has nice accuracy as well. Fire Blast provides coverage and has a 20% chance to burn thanks to Serene Grace.

Togetic has pathetic speed, so it's not worth investing in it. She needs max HP to take hits better. Max special attack and a Modest Nature allows her do as much damage as possible.

Ghosts, such as Haunter and Misdreavus, walk all over this set, so a Dark-type teammate is recommended to deal with them.
 
Is it just me, or is Sap Sipper Miltank the best mon in NU right now?

She hard counters Amoonguss, which is ridiculously useful, that base 100 speed is godly in this meta, and STAB Double-Edge OHKOs seemingly everything, even with Jolly, and while having enough bulk to withstand a Cinccino Tail Slap (and if you switch in on Bullet Seed, well!)

Plus, she can heal and cleric on the same set, even while playing offensively. I've been using a hybrid attacker/healer set and it is easily the single most indispensable member of my team. Thing averages 2 kills a game, at least.
 
Okay, gonna go ahead and burst a few bubbles.

RockyNinja: Kecleon is a terrible Pokemon. Period. There are so many better hazard layers in the tier, as well as Trick Room setters. Granbull is also pretty bad, as it's completely outclassed by Ursaring and Zangoose right now. I know you're doing a mono-Normal thing, but please make your team more competitive if you're going to be posting an RMT about it. I hate sounding like a dick, but the NU list of RMT's is already pretty laughable right now, and more gimmicks aren't going to get us anywhere.

heinzmonster: NU is a Singles-only tier, Slaking is a bad idea all the time, and that gimmick has been attempted over and over again to little success.

Sewa: Refer to Axa's post.

Majestic Electric: SHIT'S WALLED BY LAMPENT AND FLARE BOOST DRIFBLIM.
But seriously, Togetic doesn't look that bad, although its coverage is a little lacking. Also, even at +2, it still fails to 2HKO many Pokemon in the tier with either attack. It's a nice idea though.

Malkyrian: If you're serious about Sap Sipper Miltank being the best 'mon in NU, something is seriously wrong. Her offensive sets have serious 4mss, even at +1 she's not going to be getting loads of OHKO's, and if you're getting 2 kills a game with it then you aren't playing against people that know what they're doing. Hell, Golurk is one of the most common Pokemon in the metagame right now and it just rofl-stomps Miltank. Also, if you're going to have Milk Drink and Heal Bell on the same set, you lose a lot of coverage; the standard Moofensive set runs Double-Edge and Earthquake, leaving you walled by Drifblim and Misdreavus, among other things.
 
Sap Sipper Miltank is indeed amazing right now (and always)- in part because she counters Amoongus (although she may be why everyone seems to be running Effect Spore :b ) and Cincinno, but also because of the sheer number of pokemon running *insert grass move here* in NU.

I personally run her as a mixed wall/ cleric in my stall team with toxic and body slam to spread status, and she works wonders. Getting 2 KO's out of her is a common enough occurrence for me, but this is by toxic stalling mostly.

She does have her drawbacks as a wall, however. She fears certain very common strong threats (focus blast and everything learning superpower) and she has trouble winning stall wars against Vileplume and some Exeggutor, and is generally walled by Haunter or murdered by Golurk.

Top Ten I'd say, but not absolute best. (Then again, she's always been good)
 
GreyLacewing said:
Sap Sipper Miltank is indeed amazing right now (and always)- in part because she counters Amoongus (although she may be why everyone seems to be running Effect Spore :b ) and Cincinno, but also because of the sheer number of pokemon running *insert grass move here* in NU.

I personally run her as a mixed wall/ cleric in my stall team with toxic and body slam to spread status, and she works wonders. Getting 2 KO's out of her is a common enough occurrence for me, but this is by toxic stalling mostly.

She does have her drawbacks as a wall, however. She fears certain very common strong threats (focus blast and everything learning superpower) and she has trouble winning stall wars against Vileplume and some Exeggutor, and is generally walled by Haunter or murdered by Golurk.

Top Ten I'd say, but not absolute best. (Then again, she's always been good)
Click to expand...

Sap Sipper Miltank (Moofensive) isn't that bad, as it is a decent switch-in to most variants of Amoonguss and Serperior (as well as Choice-locked Leaf Storms from Exeggutor). That being said, it has 4MSS like ChaoticaMortis already stated. Plus, it doesn't really counter Cinccino very well, since it takes 12.65%-14.76% per Tail Slap hit. Even if you manage to switch-in on a Bullet Seed, considering hazards and Life Orb recoil, you basically lose Miltank anyways (or come very close). A defensive variant of Sap Sipper Miltank isn't really that offensively threatening even at +1 either if you have at least 1 relatively bulky Poke on your team.

As for your point about seeing a lot of Effect Spore Amoonguss, maybe I haven't been keeping up with my battling this past weekend, but I would assume that most of the people you are playing weren't very familiar with the tier/BW2 additions. But I personally can't say that Sap Sipper Miltank is in the top 10 of NU when there are so many other Pokes that are vying for that honor.
 
So, since we've effectively revived this thread, I believe we should actually be posting relevant discussions here! BW2 has given some of our Normal Pokemon some fantastic support, allowing them to be even more threatening than they were a few months ago. Most notably, Zangoose and Cinccino have had their Dream World Abilities released, making them two of NU's top Pokemon. Allow me to expand:

Zangoose
335.png

Zangoose received Toxic Boost from the Dream World, which seems to be an ability exclusive to the Pokemon. With it, it now gives Ursaring much more competition than it used to. Some of you might not get what that means, so allow me to explain: All Zangoose has to do is come in on something that doesn't threaten it, use Swords Dance, and allow Toxic Orb to activate. That's it. If your opponent doesn't have something ridiculously bulky or really strong priority, Zangoose is going to tear them apart. After setting up, Zangoose is sitting on a +3 base 115 Atk stat as well as having a decent base 90 Spe stat. There is virtually nothing in the tier that this thing won't 2HKO. Coverage isn't an issue, either, as Zangoose has an excellent physical movepool to pound the opponent into the ground with.

Currently, the updated analysis hasn't been uploaded, but I'm guessing some possible sets would look something like this:

Swords Dance
Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Toxic Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Night Slash
This obviously sets up Swords Dance, then attempts to sweep the opponent with the best coverage Zangoose has access to. Facade is rofl-strong before and after a Swords Dance. Close Combat offers a powerful Fighting attack. You need Night Slash or you get walled by every Ghost in the tier. Note that you're susceptible to revenge killing, and you're also on a timer with Toxic Orb.

4 Attacks
Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Toxic Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Night Slash
- Quick Attack
Sacrifices the boosts of Swords Dance for priority. Slightly weaker, but it can cancel out Sucker Punches, heavily damage potential revenge killers, and doesn't necessarily have to stick to using Close Combat and Night Slash.
Zangoose also has other attacks that might prove useful, such as X-Scissor, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, and Rock Slide.

All in all, the Toxic Mongoose makes a nice addition to any team needing a powerful Normal type sweeper.

Moving on...

Cinccino
603.png

Cinccino received Skill Link, one of the most powerful abilities in the game, as its BW2-released Dream World Ability. Mix in the fact that Cinccino also learns Rock Blast, Bullet Seed, and Tail Slap, and you effectively have three attacks with a base power of 125. Did I mention that you're also working with a base Atk stat of 95 and a base Spe of 115? This thing is idiot-proof. What's that? An idiot might send Cinccino in at the wrong time against something that might check it? Did I mention that it also gets U-Turn? Yeah, idiot-proof.
Cinccino is possibly the most dangerous Pokemon in the tier right now. Similar to past BL3 nominees, Gorebyss and Jynx, Cinccino will destroy any teams that aren't prepared for it. Cinccino can run quite a few sets such as Life Orb, Choice Band, or Choice Scarf (those are just the standard ones though, experiment as much as you can with it!). Here is my current personal favorite:

Life Orb
Cinccino @ Life Orb
Trait: Skill Link
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Tail Slap
- Rock Blast
- Bullet Seed
- U-Turn
Step 1: Send this in.
Step 2: Select appropriate attack.
Step 3: Repeat steps 1 and 2 until you win. It's as simple as that.
Of course, Cinccino can be revenge killed quite easily, so make sure to switch out if your opponent sends in their obvious RK Pokemon. Life Orb recoil can be a bitch at times, but Cinccino isn't taking many hits anyways. Expect to see this thing everywhere until we ban it.

So, here we have two of NU's best Normal Pokemon. What are your thoughts and opinions on them? Discuss away, and feel free to talk about other great Normal Pokemon, just don't talk about gimmicky shit like Dunsparce. I want to see good posts here.

EDIT: Jesus, I'm fucking stupid. Fixed the Zangoose thing. Feel free to also point out terrible mistakes that I make in my posts!
 
ChaoticaMortis said:
So, since we've effectively revived this thread, I believe we should actually be posting relevant discussions here! BW2 has given some of our Normal Pokemon some fantastic support, allowing them to be even more threatening than they were a few months ago. Most notably, Zangoose and Cinccino have had their Dream World Abilities released, making them two of NU's top Pokemon. Allow me to expand:

Zangoose
335.png

Zangoose received Toxic Boost from the Dream World, which seems to be an ability exclusive to the Pokemon. With it, it now completely outclasses Quick Feet Ursaring. Some of you might not get what that means, so allow me to explain: All Zangoose has to do is come in on something that doesn't threaten it, use Swords Dance, and allow Toxic Orb to activate. That's it. If your opponent doesn't have something ridiculously bulky or really strong priority, Zangoose is going to tear them apart. After setting up, Zangoose is sitting on a +2 base 115 Atk stat as well as a +1 base 90 Spe stat. There is virtually nothing in the tier that this thing won't 2HKO. Coverage isn't an issue, either, as Zangoose has an excellent physical movepool to pound the opponent into the ground with.

Currently, the updated analysis hasn't been uploaded, but I'm guessing some possible sets would look something like this:

Swords Dance
Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Toxic Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Night Slash
This obviously sets up Swords Dance, then attempts to sweep the opponent with the best coverage Zangoose has access to. Facade is rofl-strong before and after a Swords Dance. Close Combat offers a powerful Fighting attack. You need Night Slash or you get walled by every Ghost in the tier. Note that you're susceptible to revenge killing, and you're also on a timer with Toxic Orb.

4 Attacks
Zangoose @ Toxic Orb
Trait: Toxic Boost
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Facade
- Close Combat
- Night Slash
- Quick Attack
Sacrifices the boosts of Swords Dance for priority. Slightly weaker, but it can cancel out Sucker Punches, heavily damage potential revenge killers, and doesn't necessarily have to stick to using Close Combat and Night Slash.
Zangoose also has other attacks that might prove useful, such as X-Scissor, Fire Punch, Ice Punch, and Rock Slide.

All in all, the Toxic Mongoose makes a nice addition to any team needing a powerful Normal type sweeper.
Click to expand...

Toxic Boost boosts Attack, not Speed, FYI. :D
 
Dunsparce@leftovers
Ability serene grace
Nature calm
Evs 252 hp 252 spD 4 D
Body Slam
Charge Beam
Fire Blast
Agility

This set surprised me a lot when I tested it out. It will sponge many different special attacks, and then start charge beaming and gets a 100 percent spA raise chance. Then it can fire blast things. I made this to counter the Amoongus Alomomola defensive core that is really annoying and it worked perfectly. One thing you have to avoid with this set though is getting poisoned. You should probaly have a heal bell or aromatherapy user with this set. Don't keep it in to physical attacks either
 
While normally played defensively, I think an offensive Lickilicky is more than viable. SubSD Lickilicky an incredible Pokemon thanks to Lickilicky's great complementary 105 / 95 / 95 bulk and crazy coverage options that allow it to punch holes into enemy lines.

lickilicky_by_rockystuffe-d4qsuxm.png

Chubby Chaser (Lickilicky) (M) @ Leftovers
Trait: Cloud Nine
EVs: 224 HP / 32 Atk / 128 SDef / 124 Spe
Careful Nature (+SDef, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Swords Dance
- Body Slam
- Power Whip​

Though this set was written up and put in the analysis a bit ago, it is greatly underrated. Lickilicky's excellent bulk makes him a great abuser of Substitute, as it blocks the status aimed at him from Pokemon such as Amoonguss and Alomomola and allows Lickilicky to safely strut his stuff in the face of any attack. From there it can freely set up as many Swords Dances as it wants and start to ravage through the opposition with its great 2 move coverage. Body Slam is a very fun, albeit weak, thanks to its 30% chance to paralyze the enemy giving Lickilicky the ability to support the team or help in taking down a fast, hostile enemy. Lickilicky doesn't mess around, and makes sure to always keep his pimp tongue strong with his strong Power Whip that hits many key Pokemon such as Golem, Golurk, Carracosta, Regirock, and Alomomola for serious damage. The EVs for this set are very specialized, with 124 Spe allowing Lickilicky to outspeed Alomomola and other base 65 Speed Pokemon, 224 HP giving 404 HP for a Leftovers number and prevent Seismic Toss from breaking Subs, and 128 SpD to prevent Rotom-S's Volt Switch from breaking Lickilicky's Sub. Cloud Nine is the ability of choice, because Confuse Ray is never used to warrant Own Tempo and can come in handy when facing a rampaging Ludicolo or Gorebyss under Rain. Make sure you don't make a Lickilicky using this set angry, or it will turn you into an all it can eat buffet.


EDIT: I just now noticed that this same set was posted in Feb by NLI! I didn't see any mention of Lickilicky on the Offensive side and assumed otherwise. Even so I'll keep the post here as the bump might get more people to notice the set and use it.
 
Is there any reason why I've never seen a Zangoose on the ladder, despite all the hype about it being "uncounterable"?
Either way, my normal-typed weapon of choice is scarf tauros.

Tauros@Choice Scarf
252atk/252spe
Adamant Nature
-Retaliate
-Return
-Earthquake
-Zen Headbutt

Retaliate is for hitting like a nuke on hit and run attacks, return is more reliable stab. Earthquake kills things like Probopass and Lairon, while Zen Headbutt is mostly filler but it's the only thing that can hit Misdreavus and the like (not that you'd be keeping Tauros in on Missy)
 
Elegy96 said:
Is there any reason why I've never seen a Zangoose on the ladder, despite all the hype about it being "uncounterable"?
Either way, my normal-typed weapon of choice is scarf tauros.

Tauros@Choice Scarf
252atk/252spe
Adamant Nature
-Retaliate
-Return
-Earthquake
-Zen Headbutt

Retaliate is for hitting like a nuke on hit and run attacks, return is more reliable stab. Earthquake kills things like Probopass and Lairon, while Zen Headbutt is mostly filler but it's the only thing that can hit Misdreavus and the like (not that you'd be keeping Tauros in on Missy)
Click to expand...

Yeah I've been hearing that Scarf Tauros is good, although the set should probably be using Sheer Force and look more like this:

128.gif

Cavallero (Tauros) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Sheer Force
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Rock Climb
- Earthquake
- Rock Slide
- Zen Headbutt

This set abuses the power of Sheer Force and Tauros's good coverage to the fullest. Adamant is chosen over Jolly as even without a Speed boosting nature Tauros still hits 319 speed, enough to outspeed even Timid Scarf Haunter.


On the topic of Zangoose, it is uncounterable in the sense that nothing can switch into it if it predicts correctly, though due to it's STAB having an immunity it can be played around. The ladder shouldn't really be used as an example as literally most of the people playing are new players that are still learning the metagame and don't really know what they're doing. This ladder thing could honestly apply to every metagame on PS lol
 
Intimidate on Tauros is one of Tauros's main perk's as a scarfer. Retaliate is pretty good on the scarf set since it allows to OHKO Braviary after SR iirc. I just think that Rock Slide should be over Zen Headbutt since Tauros has no business staying in on Fighting types.
 
Scarf Tauros is fantastic actually. I first saw posts about it in the Project NU Thread, and I believe the posts there should be quoted here for additional Tauros information.

Incon said:
My personal revenge killer extraordinaire.
128.gif


Tauros @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate/Sheer Force
Evs: 4hp/ 252Atk/ 252Spd
Adamant Nature

Retaliate
Return/ Rock Climb
Stone Edge/ Zen Headbutt
Earthquake

Choice Scarf Retaliate Tauros has been perhaps one of the most effective and fun sets I have used. The surprise factor of the scarf has given me many extra KO's on unsuspecting opponents. A boosted retaliate has enough power to Ohko many prominent threats in the tier such as Sawk and Emboar after stealth rock damage and do almost half to the ever so common Amoonguss. Return is used for consistent damage as retaliate should be used in a hit and run situation. Rock Climb can be used over return for more damage, however the less than perfect accuracy sucks. Stone Edge or Zen headbutt is for extra coverage and is really down to preference. Earthquake is for steel and rock types that otherwise wall this set.

While Retaliate hits incredibly hard after a teammate has been ko'ed, it should only be used in a hit and run situation as it is quite weak without the boost. Ghost types give this set problems, however with team support, this can worked around. These factors should not deter you from trying out this amazing revenge killer as it outspeeds the whole unboosted tier with a scarf, while still hitting exceptionally hard. Try it out and i promise you wont be disappointed.
Click to expand...



ChaoticaMortis said:
I'm surprised Choice Scarf Tauros wasn't already an on-site set. I mean, its typical LO + Sheer Force gig is probably better, but with a Scarf, Tauros becomes a pretty cool revenge killer. The only other Pokemon in the tier that have both a high attack and speed stat are Floatzel, Rapidash, and Zebstrika, but none of them really have the ability to constantly switch around like Tauros due to their lower bulk and lack of Intimidate (although Flash Fire Rapidash and Sap Sipper Zebstrika can net a few nice free switches). That's not really too important however, as this set is supposed to revenge kill rather than sweep. In theory, it looks like it would be a pretty sexy revenge killer, too.

IMPORTANT CALCS RIGHT HERE
252 Atk Tauros (+Atk) Retaliate vs 0 HP/0 Def Cinccino: 108.59% - 128.18%
Guaranteed OHKO
That shouldn't surprise anyone.

252 Atk Tauros (+Atk) Retaliate vs 0 HP/0 -1 Def Gorebyss: 119.92% - 141.43%
Guaranteed OHKO
Outspeeds and OHKO's LO Gorebyss after a Smash.

252 Atk Tauros (+Atk) Retaliate vs 0 HP/0 Def Gorebyss: 80.08% - 94.42%
Entry hazards damage: 31
After entry hazards: 232 - 268 (92.43% - 106.77%)
43.75% chance to OHKO
With SR up, Tauros has a decent chance of revenge killing White Herb Gorebyss after a Smash.

252 Atk Tauros (+Atk) Retaliate vs 0 HP/0 Def Rotom-S: 82.16% - 97.1%
Entry hazards damage: 60
After entry hazards: 258 - 294 (107.05% - 121.99%)
Guaranteed OHKO
Tauros obviously doesn't afraid of Rotom-S or Rotom-F. Outspeeds and OHKO's with SR.

252 Atk Tauros (+Atk) Retaliate vs 0 HP/0 Def Sawk: 91.07% - 107.56%
Entry hazards damage: 18
After entry hazards: 283 - 331 (97.25% - 113.75%)
81.25% chance to OHKO
Confirming Incon's claim. (pt.1)

252 Atk Tauros (+Atk) Retaliate vs 128 HP/0 Def Emboar: 75.57% - 89.31%
Entry hazards damage: 49
After entry hazards: 346 - 400 (88.04% - 101.78%)
12.5% chance to OHKO
Confirming Incon's claim. (pt.2) Considering half of Emboar's moves cause recoil, the chance to OHKO is much higher than it looks.

252 Atk Tauros (+Atk) Retaliate vs 0 HP/0 Def Braviary: 77.71% - 91.79%
Entry hazards damage: 85
After entry hazards: 350 - 398 (102.64% - 116.72%)
Guaranteed OHKO
Outspeeds and OHKO's any Braviary variant after it takes Stealth Rock Damage. By extension, Swellow is also taken down.

252 Atk Tauros (+Atk) Retaliate vs 4 HP/0 Def Ludicolo: 92.72% - 109.6%
Entry hazards damage: 37
After entry hazards: 317 - 368 (104.97% - 121.85%)
Guaranteed OHKO
Ludicolos that aren't Swift Swimming past Tauros that don't invest in bulk are easily handled.

252 Atk Tauros (+Atk) Stone Edge vs 0 HP/0 Def Shedinja: 37400% - 44000%
Guaranteed OHKO
Couldn't help myself.

So, obviously anything without a decent level of defense investment is going to get taken down by Tauros fairly easily. Things like Exeggutor, Samurott, Gurdurr, Golurk, and other bulkier offensive Pokemon can actually take a hit from Tauros (or multiple depending on the 'mon) and easily KO it or force it out.
Click to expand...

As those damage calculations show, Scarf Tauros rips through some pretty huge threats with Retaliate. If I remember correctly, however, Retaliate currently doesn't work on Pokemon Showdown, but I haven't checked in a while.

Also, Shedinja weak.
 
Yeah just did a test on it, Retaliate doesn't work on PS. So from the calcs it actually looks pretty useful so it should definitely go in the analysis. I had a bit of a talk with Molk over this on IRC since he uses Tauros a lot and reassured me on Intimidate over Sheer Force on it. Until it gets fixed we should prob be using this until then.

128.gif

Cavallero (Tauros) (M) @ Choice Scarf
Trait: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Return
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Zen Headbutt
 
My only problem with that is that Return lacks a nice chunk of Retaliate's revenge power, but I highly doubt it will matter too much with Tauros cutting the opponent's attack.
 
ChaoticaMortis said:
Scarf Tauros is fantastic actually. I first saw posts about it in the Project NU Thread, and I believe the posts there should be quoted here for additional Tauros information.







As those damage calculations show, Scarf Tauros rips through some pretty huge threats with Retaliate. If I remember correctly, however, Retaliate currently doesn't work on Pokemon Showdown, but I haven't checked in a while.

Also, Shedinja weak.
Click to expand...

Hey! Thanks for the shoutout on the tauros set. Im just posting to agree with what Chaotica said. Retaliate, in my opinion, is needed to utilize the scarf set to its full effect. Ive tested with and without retaliate and have found that its needed for those extra kills that otherwise couldnt happen with just return. Retaliate is an underestimated move that can tear teams apart if not prepared for and is something that return alone cant do. However, since it doesnt work on ps! return is probably the only other option.
 
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