BW2 General Metagame Discussion Thread

[Tressed]

Cute. Anything else you amazing players know that you might be willing to bestow upon us mere mortals. XD
I personally hate Magnezone as a trapper. Use Gothitelle, Trick the Steel a Scarf, and watch it do absolutely nothing throughout the rest of the game. Or, you know, you could attack it too. That works. Magnezone just seems way too specialized.
Now here's something I like to run. CSpecs Analytic Magnezone with Volt Switch. It has good bulk, and can force out many things, providing a free switch into whatever switches in, provided it isn't a Ground type. Oh yeah, and Volt Switch hurts like a bitch, so it can easily soften up a team for a sweeper. Makes for a great pivot for offensive teams.
An alternative is a bulky, Sturdy Magnezone with Toxic, who could easily cripple some common switch ins, Gastrodon being very notable.

 

[superbadd]

If magnezone had recover and better coverage moves, it would be really good... I want magnezone in uu.... now.

 

[Lavos]

:]

Yeah Magnezone is seriously useless now that Shadow Tag Gothitelle has been released. Think about it, what does Mag do that Goth doesn't? The correct answer is nothing, but let's walk through it together, shall we? Magnezone can only trap Steels. Gothitelle can trap everything. Magnezone can OHKO Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn outside of Rain. So can Gothitelle. In addition (and let's not forget that Mag is mostly used on extremely offensive teams that hate walls), Magnezone fails to trap a ton of common walls that can stop the upcoming sweepers in their tracks such as Gliscor, Slowbro, and Chansey. Gothitelle, on the other hand, can 2HKO Gliscor (OHKO with HP Ice), 2HKO Slowbro (potential OHKO), and Trick Chansey a pair of Choice Specs that essentially make it useless. How can you justify using Magnezone over Gothitelle?

 

[Skore]

How can you justify using Magnezone over Gothitelle?

Lavos Spawn's Gothitelle is really mean :(

 

[Lavos]

Lavos Spawn's Gothitelle is really mean :(

Did I play you with my Sandslash team? lol that's the only current team I have that utilizes Gothitelle. (This is also a good time to mention how much better Specs Goth is over Scarf Goth because Scarf can't even OHKO a simple Skarmory with Thunderbolt or Gliscor with Hidden Power Ice.)

 

[Hemp Man]

:]

Yeah Magnezone is seriously useless now that Shadow Tag Gothitelle has been released. Think about it, what does Mag do that Goth doesn't? The correct answer is nothing, but let's walk through it together, shall we? Magnezone can only trap Steels. Gothitelle can trap everything. Magnezone can OHKO Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn outside of Rain. So can Gothitelle. In addition (and let's not forget that Mag is mostly used on extremely offensive teams that hate walls), Magnezone fails to trap a ton of common walls that can stop the upcoming sweepers in their tracks such as Gliscor, Slowbro, and Chansey. Gothitelle, on the other hand, can 2HKO Gliscor (OHKO with HP Ice), 2HKO Slowbro (potential OHKO), and Trick Chansey a pair of Choice Specs that essentially make it useless. How can you justify using Magnezone over Gothitelle?

Gothitelle gets hit hard by Pursuit, but other than that, I see your point

 

[alexwolf]

Lol about people hating on Zone. I am really surprised that good players such as you Lavos do the question of what Zone offers over Gothitelle. Here are a couple of things:

1. Resistances. This is big. Zone provides to a team great defensive synergy, where Gothittele doesn't. Can your Gothittele absorb a +1 Outrage and ohko back, or take a CB SE from Terrakion? I don't think so...

2. Can your Gothittele take part in a volt-turn team?

3. Can your Gothitelle switch into most of Scizor's, Genesect's, Ferrothorn's and Forretress moveset? No, as it gets ohkoed-2hkoed by most of them, while many times he can't even ohko back (in rain for example).

4. Lack of Pursuit weakness. As soon as Specs/Scarf Gothitelle (the most common sets) kills something, it dies to every OU Pursuit user.

So let's not all hate on Zone just for the sake of it. Yeah we get that he isn't as good as it used to be, but seeing people saying that Gothitelle outclasses him? Come on...

 

[Dark Fallen Angel]

:]

Yeah Magnezone is seriously useless now that Shadow Tag Gothitelle has been released. Think about it, what does Mag do that Goth doesn't? The correct answer is nothing, but let's walk through it together, shall we? Magnezone can only trap Steels. Gothitelle can trap everything. Magnezone can OHKO Skarmory, Forretress, and Ferrothorn outside of Rain. So can Gothitelle. In addition (and let's not forget that Mag is mostly used on extremely offensive teams that hate walls), Magnezone fails to trap a ton of common walls that can stop the upcoming sweepers in their tracks such as Gliscor, Slowbro, and Chansey. Gothitelle, on the other hand, can 2HKO Gliscor (OHKO with HP Ice), 2HKO Slowbro (potential OHKO), and Trick Chansey a pair of Choice Specs that essentially make it useless. How can you justify using Magnezone over Gothitelle?

Apart from what alexwolf said above, Gothitelle has four-moveslot syndrome and can't technically run all that it has to run to defeat all walls. I can see some form of partnership here: Using Gothitelle and Magnezone thogether. Use Magnezone to trap the Steel-type walls, and let Gothitelle take care of the rest.

 

[Lavos]

Apart from what alexwolf said above, Gothitelle has four-moveslot syndrome and can't technically run all that it has to run to defeat all walls. I can see some form of partnership here: Using Gothitelle and Magnezone thogether. Use Magnezone to trap the Steel-type walls, and let Gothitelle take care of the rest.

Well, the idea behind Gothitelle is you build your team of 5 Pokemon, see what it gets walled by, and then construct your Gothitelle around the needs of your team. Sure, it doesn't beat everything all at once, but it beats what it's supposed to beat 100% of the time. I've tried a Goth + Mag partnership, and it ends up being redundant, with Gothitelle doing most of the work while Magnezone is generally used as death fodder. Trust me on this one, I've experienced it firsthand.

 

[PK Gaming]

Lol about people hating on Zone. I am really surprised that good players such as you Lavos do the question of what Zone offers over Gothitelle. Here are a couple of things:

1. Resistances. This is big. Zone provides to a team great defensive synergy, where Gothittele doesn't. Can your Gothittele absorb a +1 Outrage and ohko back, or take a CB SE from Terrakion? I don't think so...

2. Can your Gothittele take part in a volt-turn team?

3. Can your Gothitelle switch into most of Scizor's, Genesect's, Ferrothorn's and Forretress moveset? No, as it gets ohkoed-2hkoed by most of them, while many times he can't even ohko back (in rain for example).

4. Lack of Pursuit weakness. As soon as Specs/Scarf Gothitelle (the most common sets) kills something, it dies to every OU Pursuit user.

So let's not all hate on Zone just for the sake of it. Yeah we get that he isn't as good as it used to be, but seeing people saying that Gothitelle outclasses him? Come on...

maybe so

but he's still not very good, gothitelle be damned.

Anything else you amazing players know that you might be willing to bestow upon us mere mortals. XD

THIS IS YOUR GOD SPEAKING. USE GENESECT. IT'S SERIOUSLY GOOD.

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

Even before Shadow Tag Gothitelle was released, I wasn't too keen on running Magnezone a lot because of its low Speed (oh and SubCharge is ass, don't use it.) I recently used Specs Magnezone on one of my teams, but I found myself only trapping Skarmory, Forretress, Ferrothorn, and (choiced) Genesect. Admittedly trapping Scarf Genesect was a pretty big deal, and my team was using Scarf Gothitelle to prevent Keldeo from destroying everything (so SpecsZone was more effective against Skarmory and such than Scarf Goth was), but I didn't find it particularly useful outside of those. I wouldn't go as far as to say it's complete trash, but I've found Gothitelle to be much more useful so I'd rather use Gothitelle. Basically, I found Magnezone to trap a Steel-type. Ok, it's now useless for the remainder of the match. Gothitelle can at least trap everything that doesn't have Shadow Tag or Shed Shell (hey Gliscor, fuck you)

But seriously, if you're going to use Magnezone, don't use SubCharge. It's dumb. If you're going to use something to set up and sweep, use something that can, I dunno, set up on things other than Ferrothorn.

 

[Porii Sames]

I kinda want to start a new topic not on one mon in particular, but as a teamstyle.

I've been seeing a lot more Sun, Rain, and Sand lately, and I would like to know this: is weatherless Voltturn still viable?

Scizor and Genesect hit hard with STAB U-turns and both can play very useful roles besides just that. Forretress and Xatu are capable of dealing a light hit and easily able to continue doing their job, and both force a lot of switches and are capable of getting hazards down. Infernape, Landorus, Tornadus, Jirachi, and Celebi can all use decent powered to strong U-turns. Thundurus-T, Rotom-W, and Rotom-C are all great users of Volt Switch and all of them have a decent amount of power. With all of this considered, plus the spike in Deoxys-D usage allowing for hazards to be placed easier, would anyone consider a weatherless Voltturn still viable?

and woo 400 posts

 

[Lavos]

I kinda want to start a new topic not on one mon in particular, but as a teamstyle.

I've been seeing a lot more Sun, Rain, and Sand lately, and I would like to know this: is weatherless Voltturn still viable?

Scizor and Genesect hit hard with STAB U-turns and both can play very useful roles besides just that. Forretress and Xatu are capable of dealing a light hit and easily able to continue doing their job, and both force a lot of switches and are capable of getting hazards down. Infernape, Landorus, Tornadus, Jirachi, and Celebi can all use decent powered to strong U-turns. Thundurus-T, Rotom-W, and Rotom-C are all great users of Volt Switch and all of them have a decent amount of power. With all of this considered, plus the spike in Deoxys-D usage allowing for hazards to be placed easier, would anyone consider a weatherless Voltturn still viable?

and woo 400 posts

Yes. Weatherless volt-turn is extremely viable in the current metagame. A team I have been playing around with is Tornadus-T / Landorus-T / Rotom-W / Scizor / Mienshao / Xatu, and it's been working quite nicely. The best part about it is that you don't have to waste a team slot to a weather starter, you can just build the team and go. Unfortunately the team is manhandled by Sun, I'm actually working on an EV spread for Tornadus-T that lets it survive a +2 LO Sludge Bomb from Venusaur, we'll see if that pans out. Scarf Mienshao is still as fun to use as it was in BW1, hitting Torn-Ts with Stone Edge and just loling as the opponent rages. Landorus-T makes an excellent Terrakion check, Breloom is 100% walled by Xatu...it's nice.

 

[SapphSabre777]

With all of this considered, plus the spike in Deoxys-D usage allowing for hazards to be placed easier, would anyone consider a weatherless Voltturn still viable?

and woo 400 posts

U-Turn and Volt Switch is and has been an important part in all the tiers. Just because there is an increase of a hazard Pokemon's usage and weather teams does not mean that weatherless Voltturn is not viable. Albeit, it is harder to correctly use, but by no means is it completely useless.

 

[Porii Sames]

The team I was playing around with was Fire Gem Deo-D / Mixed Defensive Amoonguss / Reflect Type Starmie as a defensive pivot and for hazards. As for my Turn core, I have Scarf Gene / Scarf Thundurus-T / Scarf Infernape. Ape deals with sun remarkably well, with only Timid Chlorosweepers causing huge troubles (and Amoongbro can handle a couple of em). Running full U-turn I haven't really tried yet...

 

[alkinesthetase]

weatherless volt turn is probably the BEST way to play weatherless at all. full stall is just not very good (I'M SORRY I'M TRYING SO HARD but the ultimate fact of the matter is that right now, weatherless stall is much more demanding, and much less mistake-friendly, than offense... say what you want about player skill but this speaks also to the strength of the style. it's still the only style for me though lol) and sun/rain is way better at just spamming powerful attacks until you die thanks to that fire/water boost.

volt-turn is probably the best way to abuse hazards and maintain switch advantage while not falling into an overly defensive playstyle or using weather. throw down some rocks and start rolling. you'll suffer against nuke attacks (cough sun vcreate) but seeing as volt-turn is a balanced/offensive playstyle, only an idiot would be lacking in checks for such threats.

as lavos noted, the main problem is that you can't actually stop people from spamming weather-boosted attacks and abilities if you run no weather of your own - this is the overriding problem with weatherless in general, really, and it goes even heavier for sun because chloro is legal where as swift swim is not. if you're not ready to check a venusaur that outruns scarfrak in the sun, it's gonna be taking a few mons with it before it goes down, and when you're staring down cb victini in the sun, vcreate is gonna ohko uninvested 2x resists with ease, while bulky steels (except ferro, who has the gift of water resistance) will just get washed away in rain hydro pump spam. stuff like that is tough when you can't change the weather.

if you slide into a defensive playstyle, mons like chansey can wall specs rain sweepers all day (i run 252 sdef calm so i can sneer at specs toed hydro pumps, yeah come at me broed) but then you're bait to be swept. volt-turn is a good balance because you can combine bulky mons with offensive switch advantage through vswitch/uturn, but even then a single team can only take so many specs keldeo hydro pumps before it falls to its knees. such is the plight of weatherless - not impossible, but an irrevocable disadvantage from turn 1.

oh and

(oh and SubCharge is ass, don't use it.)

i actually could not agree more with this statement than i already do

 

[kalamadude]

Weatherless stall is exceptionally difficult, but Rain Stall and Sand Stall are both nice options. Sand stall may as well be stall + Tar/Hippo to counter other weather. I've got one rain and one sand stall team and they're both passable in the meta (~1830 on Showdown).

One question I find myself getting frustrated with while I ladder is this:

I know Smogon has a reputation for being slow to change and is very careful in it's processes, but when in God's name are we going to figure out this Garchomp thing and move on to the, in my opinion, much more important problems of Tornadus-T and Genesect? It is my opinion that both are overpowered and overcentralizing (especially in Genesect's case - the scarf one is no trouble to deal with, but the odd Leftovers or Expert Belt one is so versatile and strong that if it gets the right Download boost, it will pick apart your team one by one [though this is clearly from a stall perspective]). Tornadus-T, on the other hand, is spectacularly fast, with tremendous Special Attack and a great STAB move in Hurricane, and all with the incredible Regenerator ability. It's a wonder to me that we didn't smacked him to Ubers weeks ago.

 

[ginganinja]

I know Smogon has a reputation for being slow to change and is very careful in it's processes, but when in God's name are we going to figure out this Garchomp thing and move on to the, in my opinion, much more important problems of Tornadus-T and Genesect?

Just pointing out, being "slow to change" is not really something smogon wants to do, its just to get a fair indication of whether something should be suspected, these things take time. Its only really been like a week since the (rated) suspect ladder went up, and already your complaining that its taking too long? You are aware right, that usually suspect testing takes about a month so we can get a fair indication of the suspect status of a pokemon, and that this round of suspect is half that time?

I can understand that you might want a quick result, but please, try to avid bitching about the time it takes for a decision to be made (especially when it hasn't actually been that long), as it does nothing to actually speed up the process, and you come across as rather rude. Tiering is taken very seriously about smogon, especially when our tiers are actually used by other sites / competitions. Heck, I went to a pokemon tourney in NZ that used smogons tiers erog, its in the best interest of the community, not to rush these things, in order for the correct situation to be made.

On the the second part of your post, you need to really have better arguments as to why you consider x broken. Tornadus-T has been discussed many times, I personally don't think it deserves to be suspected, (mainly due to me just not having trouble with it) but claiming Tornadus-T has "spectacular" special attack (you have the same as Tangrowth (110) which isn't utterly amazing when you compare it with Latios / Gengar which are 20 points higher). Yea, sure, Regeneration makes it tricky to deal with, although getting up Stealth Rock makes this easier, as well as Life Orb cutting down its survivability. Its strong, im not denying it, but it has its checks / counters, and I feel that its manageable. Genesect, I don't really feel is broken at all. You didn't really list why you think its broken (you claim stall has problems with leftovers Genesect but wouldn't something like Chansey handle it?) and in general, I just don't believe its broken lol. Basically, you are going to need to really state why you think these two pokemon are broken, while also refuting the arguments brought up earlier in the thread claiming that those pokemon are not actually broken.

 

[bubbly]

Genesect is pretty evidently not broken, but it's still unhealthy for the metagame in my opinion. I really don't want to see OU turning into the bs that was DW OU where practically every top team was Genesect + Tyranitar / Politoed. It has absolutely massive utility and fits into almost every kind of team, replacing other Steel types and forcing teams to carry multiple checks to it (almost all of which can be removed by Dugtrio or just via U-turn spamming with hazards up).

 

[Princess Bubblegum]

Im iffy about Tornadus-T, if more people where using superpower + u-turn I might be convinced, but they aren't, in fact Tornadus-T usage has plummeted.

Genesect on the other hand... is just plain broken, for reasons already said by better men than me 100 times.

GINGANINJA EDIT: So why don't you expand on these reasons then -_-

 

[Marzbar]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

"Magnezone is shit. It only traps Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, choiced Scizor and choiced Genesect."

Have you seen actually seen the OU usage stats these days? Tell me the last time you played a team that DIDN'T have one of those 5 Pokemon in it.

Magnezone is still very relevant and very useful. Stop hating on it because it's become "cool" to do so.

 

[Blim]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

"Magnezone is shit. It only traps Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, choiced Scizor and choiced Genesect."

Have you seen actually seen the OU usage stats these days? Tell me the last time you played a team that DIDN'T have one of those 5 Pokemon in it.

Magnezone is still very relevant and very useful. Stop hating on it because it's become "cool" to do so.

lol, what in the world are you talking about? Who is hating on Magnezone because it seems "cool" to do so? The only thing I've seen in this thread is good discussion of Magnezone's usefulness vs Gothitelle in the current metagame. Anyway, Ferrothorn can beat Magnezone in the rain with leech seed and / or bulldoze, forretress can volt switch, skarmory can still run shed shell, and genesect can beat magnezone by u- turning / playing smart. I personally think Gothitelle is slightly better because of its ability to completely cripple stall and remove key walls on the opposing teams in order to allow other threatening offensive pokemon such as terrakoin / breloom to sweep. Not saying that magnezone is bad or doesnt have some niche, I just think that gothitelle is a little better.

 

[Zacchaeus]

I can't believe what I'm reading.

"Magnezone is shit. It only traps Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, choiced Scizor and choiced Genesect."

Have you seen actually seen the OU usage stats these days? Tell me the last time you played a team that DIDN'T have one of those 5 Pokemon in it.

Magnezone is still very relevant and very useful. Stop hating on it because it's become "cool" to do so.

Magnezone and Gothitelle against Scarf Genesect

252 +1 SpAtk Genesect Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Magnezone: 33.14% - 38.95%
252 +1 SpAtk Genesect Flamethrower vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Magnezone: 93.02% - 109.88%
252 +1 SpAtk Genesect Ice Beam/Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Magnezone: 23.26% - 27.33%
0 Atk Genesect U-turn vs 252 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 11.34% - 13.66%

252 +1 SpAtk Genesect Bug Buzz vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Gothitelle: 112.5% - 132.56%
252 +1 SpAtk Genesect Flamethrower/Ice Beam/Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Gothitelle: 39.53% - 46.51%
0 Atk Genesect U-turn vs 252 HP/0 Def Gothitelle: 54.07% - 63.66%

Ferrothorn

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs 252 HP/0 Def Gothitelle: 36.92% - 43.9%
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball vs 252 HP/0 Def Gothitelle: 19.48% - 22.97%
252 SpAtk Gothitelle (+SpAtk) Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Ferrothorn (+SpDef) : 42.61% - 50.57%
252 SpAtk Gothitelle (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Fire vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Ferrothorn (+SpDef) : 51.14% - 60.23%

0 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs 252 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 15.7% - 18.6%
0 Atk Ferrothorn Gyro Ball vs 252 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 3.78% - 4.65%
252 SpAtk Magnezone (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Fire vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Ferrothorn (+SpDef) : 62.5% - 73.86%
252 +1 SpAtk Magnezone (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Fire vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Ferrothorn (+SpDef) : 93.18% - 110.23%

Skarmory

252 SpAtk Magnezone (+SpAtk) Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory (+SpDef) : 92.51% - 109.58%
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 6.98% - 8.14%

252 SpAtk Gothitelle (+SpAtk) Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory (+SpDef) : 31.14% - 36.83%
252 SpAtk Gothitelle (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Fire vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Skarmory (+SpDef) : 37.13% - 43.71%
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs 252 HP/0 Def Gothitelle: 32.56% - 38.66%

Scizor

252 SpAtk Gothitelle (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Fire vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Scizor: 95.63% - 113.12%
252 SpAtk Gothitelle (+SpAtk) Focus Blast vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Scizor: 40.82% - 48.1%
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 252 HP/0 Def Gothitelle: 49.13% - 57.85%
252 Atk Choice Band Scizor (+Atk) Pursuit vs 252 HP/0 Def Gothitelle: 87.21% - 102.91%
252 Atk Choice Band Scizor (+Atk) Superpower vs 252 HP/0 Def Gothitelle: 32.56% - 38.37%
252 Atk Choice Band Scizor (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/0 Def Gothitelle: 114.24% - 135.17%

252 SpAtk Magnezone (+SpAtk) Thunderbolt vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Scizor: 59.77% - 70.85%
252 SpAtk Magnezone (+SpAtk) Hidden Power Fire vs 248 HP/0 SpDef Scizor: 118.95% - 139.94%
252 Atk Choice Band Scizor (+Atk) Superpower vs 252 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 111.05% - 130.81%
252 Atk Choice Band Scizor (+Atk) Pursuit vs 252 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 18.6% - 21.8%
252 Atk Choice Band Technician Scizor (+Atk) Bullet Punch vs 252 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 10.47% - 12.21%
252 Atk Choice Band Scizor (+Atk) U-turn vs 252 HP/0 Def Magnezone: 24.42% - 28.78%

Heatran

252 SpAtk Gothitelle (+SpAtk) Focus Blast vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Heatran (+SpDef) : 41.45% - 49.22%
0 SpAtk Heatran Lava Plume vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Gothitelle: 29.07% - 34.3%

252 SpAtk Magnezone (+SpAtk) Thunderbolt vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Heatran (+SpDef) : 30.57% - 36.01%
0 SpAtk Heatran Lava Plume vs 252 HP/0 SpDef Magnezone: 68.9% - 81.98%

I'll still say that Magnezone is best suited for trapping Steels in most circumstances, but it definitely has limits (Heatran) and can't magically solve your problems. And of course, Gothitelle can trap things that aren't Steel type but I don't think it's as good as people make it out to be

lol, what in the world are you talking about?

Post 1754-1768

 

[Adamant Zoroark]

The thing is, though, Magnezone is 100% useless unless the opponent has a Steel it can actually effectively trap. Its usefulness is just extremely limited. In addition, Scizor usage is starting to decrease and Heatran usage is starting to rise thanks to one of the Pokemon it checks (Genesect), and guess what? Magnezone is ass against Heatran. Even then, Magnezone loses to non-Choiced Genesect anyway. That pretty much leaves Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and Forretress. Forretress, however, can predict your switch-in and go for Earthquake, and you may occasionally run into Skarmory or Forretress using Shed Shell.

Also, Zacchaeus, I think you forgot in the Skarmory calcs that Gothitelle learns Thunderbolt. Also, no one uses SpDef Skarm.

 

[kalamadude]

Just pointing out, being "slow to change" is not really something smogon wants to do, its just to get a fair indication of whether something should be suspected, these things take time. Its only really been like a week since the (rated) suspect ladder went up, and already your complaining that its taking too long? You are aware right, that usually suspect testing takes about a month so we can get a fair indication of the suspect status of a pokemon, and that this round of suspect is half that time?

I can understand that you might want a quick result, but please, try to avid bitching about the time it takes for a decision to be made (especially when it hasn't actually been that long), as it does nothing to actually speed up the process, and you come across as rather rude. Tiering is taken very seriously about smogon, especially when our tiers are actually used by other sites / competitions. Heck, I went to a pokemon tourney in NZ that used smogons tiers erog, its in the best interest of the community, not to rush these things, in order for the correct situation to be made.

On the the second part of your post, you need to really have better arguments as to why you consider x broken. Tornadus-T has been discussed many times, I personally don't think it deserves to be suspected, (mainly due to me just not having trouble with it) but claiming Tornadus-T has "spectacular" special attack (you have the same as Tangrowth (110) which isn't utterly amazing when you compare it with Latios / Gengar which are 20 points higher). Yea, sure, Regeneration makes it tricky to deal with, although getting up Stealth Rock makes this easier, as well as Life Orb cutting down its survivability. Its strong, im not denying it, but it has its checks / counters, and I feel that its manageable. Genesect, I don't really feel is broken at all. You didn't really list why you think its broken (you claim stall has problems with leftovers Genesect but wouldn't something like Chansey handle it?) and in general, I just don't believe its broken lol. Basically, you are going to need to really state why you think these two pokemon are broken, while also refuting the arguments brought up earlier in the thread claiming that those pokemon are not actually broken.

I'm aware that the suspect ladder has only been up a week, but didn't we have another week of Garchomp with no Sand Veil before that? I also feel like testing should have been up earlier in general. BW2 has been out all summer. And I never claimed to be an expert in what is broken. I just feel that those two Pokémon require extraordinary measures to cover and are just too versatile. I'm not the only one that feels this way. I don't think Chansey is a great answer to Leftovers Genesect because Chansey is very easy to set up on by many sweepers and Genesect can just U-Turn away whenever it comes in. Blissey and Chansey in general haven't been very effective for a while because too many things can take advantage of them. I'm not going to get into a big argument over why I think something is broken because I'm not as well-versed and experienced as others and they'll make me look silly. I just personally feel that these two give me (and I imagine other people) a lot of trouble and it bothers me that we are focusing on bringing an old force back before we look at current problems.