In fact LO was the second item slash. LO Kyurem-B is a very good wallbreaker, as it destroys stall teams and CAN fit Roost in its moveset. IB / D-Claw / EP are more than enough for handling anything a stall team has except from Chansey.
That's not true. That set loses Ferrothorn on top of losing to Chansey, healthy Blissey (you have 26.56% chance of 2HKOing with Dragon Claw without LO) and Jellicent(also checked by jirachi). It's hardly the world class stall breaker you make it out to be, especially when it gives up a coverage move + using LO. And you keep repeating "except for Chansey" like it's a minor flaw. Chansey it's pretty common on stall teams.
Let me hear what threats you are open to when running D-Claw. Except from Jellicent, which takes 41.68 - 49.37% from D-Claw, 22.27% chance to get 2HKOed after SR, and only needs something like a weak U-turn to be put in Kyurem-B's 2HKO range, there is nothing else that counters it, except from Chansey, which is already mentioned.
Then why did you list Fusion Bolt over Dragon Claw?? Your Jellicent calc assumes LO. Standard Jellicent takes 127-151 (31.51 - 37.46%) from Dragon Claw, you straight up lose if you're not running Fusion Bolt.
Beaten by Jirachi on average? SpD Jirachi takes 48.26 - 57.17% from EP, 94.14% of 2HKO after SR. Ferrothorn you say? Ice Beam does 45.45 - 53.4%, 46% chance of 2HKO after SR (i am assuming Roost in the last slot, as FB obviously murders Ferro), and Ferro doesn't have reliable recovery. Being SR weak is a con of 'course, but Kyurem-B has awesome bulk and Roost, and many times 1 switch-in is all he needs to break stall.
Jirachi is still a good answer to mixed Kyurem-B. It can't switch into Earth Power, but makes for a good switch in against every other move. If Kyurem-B (a world class stallbreaker in your eyes) is forced out by Ferrothorn or Jirachi that can safely switch in, that's huge con. Especially when that SR weakness is taken into account.
Also kindly slow the fuck down, you can't have Kyurem-B use Roost
and all of its coverage moves at the same time, stick with it. If Kyurem-B is not using Focus Blast, Ferrothorn is a good answer to it Ice Beam's pitiful 2HKO chance is irrelevant, if you've already forced Kyurem-B out once you've done your job.
And just because you mentioned that Ferro in rain walls Kyu-B (which is not true), i want to mention again that Kyu-B is the only mixed dragon from the big ones (Mence and Hydreigon) that is not hindered at all by the presence of rain.
stop !notreading my arguments and being blatantly wrong. Hydreigon has Fire Blast (
which is just as strong as Focus Blast in the rain), it's not walled by Ferrothorn any more than Kyurem-B... I don't even know why you're trying to argue that Kyurem-B is more effective against Steel-types than fucking Hydreigon. Hydreigon
also has access to Earthquake & Focus Blast, there is no way you can argue that Kyurem-B is more effective at dealing against Steel-types in the rain. It baffling how you keep shoehorning Salamence into this discussion; i stopped bringing it up for a reason.
In fact my own stall team has only lost once against the 10 Kyurem-B that i faced so far, but this was because they were using sets other than the mixed one.
anecdotal evidence; don't care.
Because i have used Mixed Kyu-B quite a lot, i realized how easily it breaks defensive cores, without even needing much prediction. I am not saying that Kyu-B is a very good poke in general, just that it beats stall easily, but this doesn't mean a lot right now, because nobody gives a fuck about stall anyway (except from a very few people).
Whoop dee doo!! I've also used Kyurem-B quite a bit throughout the suspect test, and while i haven't used mixed that often or come across any stall teams while using Kyurem-B, I can say that it isn't that effective against stall teams as you make it out to be. I can't prove this with experience (duh) but I can attempt to prove it with facts. (SR weak + poor offensive movepool = not that big of a deal against stall teams.)
Also when saying that SpD Jirachi and Chansey are overlapping in stall teams i am talking for an actually healthy and enjoyable meta, not the thing we have now. The only reason that any stall team would consider running SpD Jirachi + Chansey right now is to deal with Torn-T. Stall has like only two viable pokes that it can use to counter Torn-T, Jirachi and Zadpos, so Jirachi is in almost every stall team. This wouldn't happen in a healthy meta. Proof of this are the RMTs in the archive. Almost zero stall teams used Jirachi + Chansey, because as i have said their roles are somewhat overlapping.
Are you coming up with excuses now? really. You should know that our discussions only pertain to the current metagame, why should a healthy metagame factor at all??? I'm doubting the legitimacy of your claim since your post seemed to imply that Jirachi + Chansey was a bad idea in general, but ok. Let's assume that you aren't making excuses to cover your ass... ok??? Chansey + Jirachi is a strong combo for BW OU2 right now, ToF's stall team proves it.
I bothered to mention how badly Kyu-B nukes Steel-types because you said that Steel-types are relatively safe switch ins to him, which is false (again neither Ferro nor Jirachi wall Kyu-B, even in rain).
It doesn't nuke them any better than the other Dragon-types that exist in OU. I acknowledge that Kyurem-B can break through Steel-types, it's still arguably one of the worst Dragons that can do so because of its awful movepool. Are you actually trying to argue it isn't?
Finally i don't think i ever said that stall teams can't deal with Kyu-B (excuse me if i did), i said that they can't counter it. Yeah they can revenge with one of the pokes you mentioned, but they still have to sac a poke to bring them in, and this is just not how stall operates.
you did. And no, that's not all they can do. SR basically cuts the amount of times it can switch into battle (so if it switches in its stuck or you just lost 50%). All stall teams need to do is pivot switch their steel-type into Kyurem-B to force it out
and eat even more SR damage. OR if they have Chansey they can switch in and force it out + render it useless for the rest of the match. It's completely unlike SD Terrakion or Hydreigon, who CAN switch out without much of an issue, and who are capable bypassing pretty much everything on stall under the right circumstance. (Hydreigon has a chance of taking weakened chansey's with superpower... kyurem-b is never coming close to taking it out)
I don't get what you are trying to say here. The best mixed sets don't rely at surprise factor in order to do damage, they rely on the fact that no Pokemon can wall them, or only a handful. Evidence of this is Hydreigon. What is the first set you assume when seeing a Hydreigon? Because i definitely think it is the mixed set, which is its best set and the first listed in the analysis written by you. And no i don't make a big deal for what you said. I simply state how Mixed Kyu-B can get past anything in a stall team, except from Chansey.
Nevermind.
Kyurem-B not getting passed Chansey = kind of a huge problem. It has trouble getting passed Blissey too.
I didn't underestimate anything, i stated how DM can be played around with smart switches, not that it is easy to do. But Kyu-B doesn't even need to lower any of its offensive stats or get locked and crippled in order to wallbreak, which is in itself an advantage. Also how could Hydreigon use a set like the one that Kyu-B runs without access to STAB Ice Beam and the ability to 2HKO special walls with D-Claw?
Yeah sure. Draco Meteor is a luxury that Hydreigon can use because if it switches out, it doesn't lose a good chunk of its health in the process. Kyurem-B wouldn't dare run one of the
best moves in the game because it can't afford to switch out, especially against stall teams. I doesn't need STAB Ice Beam, it has all of the coverage it needs to cover Pokemon that may appear on Stall teams.
Rain is bad for Hydreigon because it relies mostly on Fire coverage to deal with most Steel types, unlike Kyu-B. Kyu-B does not give two shits about rain, because it can still 2HKO every single Steel type with Ice Beam + EP. HP Fire is nice against offensive teams, which are more popular, and this is why i put it as the first slash, but Roost or FB are far better against stall teams, which are the subject of discussion here.
Covered it previously but i'll spell it out for you:
-It has access to Earthquake/Earthpower. You can use it target Jirachi/Heatran (Kyurem-B can also do this)
-Fire Blast = Focus Blast in terms of damage against Ferrothorn in the rain (something Kyurem-B !can't do.)
-Hydreigon
also has access to Focus Blast.
???
Am I missing something;
how is Kyurem-B better against Steel-types, rain included?!?
And where i said that Hydreigon is a bad wallbreaker? The only time that i did was ironic, which i am pretty sure you understood.
that's your example of being ironic?
I was just saying that Steel-types are good switch into Kyurem-B in general.
But sure, ok they can lose if they switch into his mixed sets. Nothing new (
see Hydreigon)
Once more the surprise element is almost irrelevant to what i am saying. Mixed Kyu-B is a nightmare for stall teams because without Chansey they have a hard time walling it, not because it will be unexpected.
ginganinja already covered this. I want to reiterate 2 things:
-Chansey is fairly common on stall teams
-It'll be easier to tell if its running a Mixed set or a choiced set, once the set gains popularity and it'll be easier to pivot switch a check into it.
I already mentioned what Kyu-B has, but i will do it one last time. STAB Ice Beam, and a move to 2HKO most special walls, aka D-Claw. Kyu-B is just fine with 3 moves, as Ground + Ice is unresisted in OU with Terravolt, and D-Claw takes care of most special walls. Also no matter what coverage move Hydreigon runs, it will still run DM, which CAN be abused. Not saying it is easy, but it can be abused. Kyu-B can punch holes in a stall team as easily as Hydreigon without the need to use moves with drawbacks, that is my point.
Here's where I disagree completely. As a wallbreaker it's decent, but nothing special. Its STAB Ice Beams aren't really relevant (they're useful against Amoongus I suppose) Dragon Claw is not strong enough against Special walls; It barely 2HKOes Blissey (26.56%), can't ever 2HKO Chansey (assuming its even running it), it can't 2HKO Jellicent either. All of these Pokemon can force Kyurem-b out if they switch into Dragon Claw and are guaranteed at doing this if they switch into his coverage moves. That's a problem. Steel-types like Jirachi & Ferrothorn are decent checks, provided they can avoid Earth Power or Focus Blast on the switch in. Also a problem. Unlike conventional Stall breakers like SD Terrakion, Hydreigon, or Mew Kyurem-B gets mauled by SR for making a mistake. It's not allowed to mispredict against a stall team, and it even if it does it still runs into Pokemon it cannot beat. MY point is that Kyurem-B CAN'T punch holes into stall teams as easily as Hydreigon (or stallbreakers in general) and is punished EVEN HARDER for messing up. Hence why I think it's only "decent" at best when it comes to stallbreaking.
I never said that Kyu-B is more privileged than Hydreigon. My point all along has been that Kyu-B is one of the best stallbreakers in OU, maybe even better than Hydreigon. I say maybe even though i believe that Kyu-B is superior as a stallbreaker, because Kyu-B has only been in the meta for a little time, and i could change my opinion. Being one of the best stallbreakers means shit in such a meta though, so do not confuse my words. I don't suggest that Kyu-B is broken, but that it is making stall struggle.
I could care less if you think Kyurem-B is broken. I have a problem with you stating that its the best stallbreaker ever, when its not true.
To learn how to counter something, it must have counters in the first place, which Hydreigon lacks. And it is not really that hard to bring Hydreigon in, as its bulk is pretty good, it doesn't have a SR weakness, is immune to spikes (it will never get screwed by toxic spikes either). Hey it has Roost too. And to settle this for once and for all, Hydreigon does not rely on ''surprise factor'' to break stall teams, it relies on power and coverage.
Food for thought.
(Kyurem-B doesn't even have the room to utilize roost if it wants to be a world class wallbreaker)
