meat is murder

[Ace Emerald]

okay I really didn't want to join this thread but I saw this and am like "nope". Sorry, Ace Emerald. As someone who was raised Orthodox Jewish and went to a Jewish school almost my entire life, I can tell you its a mitzvah, positive commandment, to eat meat. In fact, for the Friday night meal, you're SUPPOSED to eat meat. Its not quite open for interpretation, and I'd love to find a Rabbi that says differently...
I'll add my voice to this matter later, I have bio now byeees

The Bible also contains pretty strict laws about animal sacrifice, but you'd be hard pressed to find a Rabbi that supports those now. Now I know that there are circumstances (the destruction of the Temple) that led to this change, but as someone who was raised Reform, I'll tell you that many people don't take the Bible literally and instead take their own interpretations and opinions, because in the end that's what religion is. Are you saying that out of all the Rabbis in the world, not one says "The Bible made it a commandment to eat meat because meat was necessary to survive in that time period. Now that we have advanced past that, eating meat is as old fashioned as animal sacrifices." Now, I'm sure you have a valid response, and I don't mean to say my opinion is the final thought on the matter, but this is a minor point of a minor point of my original post. If you would like to continue the debate, I'd be willing, but I have a feeling it might stray from relevance.

 

[X5Dragon]

In Islam we have an Eid of Al-Adha (Holiday of Sacrifice) which commemorates the act of Ibrahim who was willing to sacrifice his son for God, and the meat is mostly distributed to the poor.

tl;dr: You won't find a practicing Muslim condemning meat eating. We do however ban hunting for game purposes explicitly or target shooting and animal torture in general.

 

[kittenmay]

The Bible also contains pretty strict laws about animal sacrifice, but you'd be hard pressed to find a Rabbi that supports those now. Now I know that there are circumstances (the destruction of the Temple) that led to this change, but as someone who was raised Reform, I'll tell you that many people don't take the Bible literally and instead take their own interpretations and opinions, because in the end that's what religion is. Are you saying that out of all the Rabbis in the world, not one says "The Bible made it a commandment to eat meat because meat was necessary to survive in that time period. Now that we have advanced past that, eating meat is as old fashioned as animal sacrifices." Now, I'm sure you have a valid response, and I don't mean to say my opinion is the final thought on the matter, but this is a minor point of a minor point of my original post. If you would like to continue the debate, I'd be willing, but I have a feeling it might stray from relevance.

I don't agree with the Bible, so your point is moot. I was addressing your misinforming of others.

 

[Stallion]

I'm always reminded of the quote on the Simpson's: "if it could, a Cow would eat you". It is 100 % true as well. We are at the top of the food chain, meat was made to be part of our diet, and animals who are lower on the food chain are fair game for to eat. The only issue j have is with eating endangered animals, but that's a whole different topic.

 

[some hero]

I'm always reminded of the quote on the Simpson's: "if it could, a Cow would eat you". It is 100 % true as well. We are at the top of the food chain, meat was made to be part of our diet, and animals who are lower on the food chain are fair game for to eat. The only issue j have is with eating endangered animals, but that's a whole different topic.

I never understood why there is an issue with eating endangered species when people use the food chain excuse. And how those same people are disgusted at the thought of cannibalism. If you guys really believed in that idea you would have no problem eating pandas or a weaker human. It's a dumb excuse because we humans, while animals, are not part of the animal kingdom. We can't use their excuse. Nothing we do helps another species like all other animals do. We are living above natural selection and the food chain. We have no right to eat animals using the excuse of "because we are animals and are at top of the food chain" when we go ahead and completely ignore that just to not look bad and fit in with others on a regular basis.

The real reason why people eat meat is because they were taught it was safe to eat, doesn't taste like crap and it is socially acceptable. Not because of some dumb primal instinct.

I used to eat meat/animals but i found it hypocritical to eat a certain species just to fit in.

 

[X5Dragon]

...That dumb primal instinct you referring to is also known as 'hunger'.

 

[some hero]

Before i say anything else, i have no problem with humans killing animals for survival in poorer countries where they can be part of the food chain or in situations where they are part of the food chain(stuck in the middle of nowhere with the nearest Wal-Mart being 100 miles away).

By that i meant to say that people who use the food chain excuse also make it seem like they have no control over their diet... "Real" animals can't decide what to eat and what not to eat simply because it looks bad. Again, i don't care in survival situations where humans actually join their inferior cousins. At which point even cannibalism becomes acceptable. That is the only time this whole food chain excuse is not hypocritical.

 

[kokoloko]

A specie going extinct puts a lot more at risk than just that one thing. Their predators starve and their prey overpopulate, which can lead to swarms or other shit that can eventually bite us in the ass. So no, saying "I don't eat endangered species" is not hypocritical or stupid.

Comparing a "weaker human" to an endangered specie on the other hand, is pretty retarded. Especially when in that same post you say that we are not part of the animal kingdom.

Anyway this thread is pretty dumb imo, but since I already typed this out I might as well give my opinion on the subject. As part of culinary arts training, my class was shown a film called "Food, Inc."--which basically depicts everything that is wrong with what we eat. Everything from the complete and utter monopoly that Monsanto has on soy (and how they destroy small farms trying to compete with them) to how terribly inhumane the Smithfield slaughterhouses are (not only to the animals, but to their workers). That's just it though; the way in which the food is acquired is "bad", not the actual food.

To be honest, if you feel like you shouldn't eat meat because an organism that can feel pain was killed for it, then you should probably feel just as bad for eating any one of the many, many non-protein products that have been monopolized by companies like Monsanto via destroying the livelyhood of hundreds of small farmers and workers.

 

[some hero]

lol whats your problem with Monsanto?

Anyways, i know the human comparison is extreme but these guys are acting like we are the same as snakes or lions. Do you think if a snake species was at the top of the food chain they would hesitate to eat their brothers and sisters? So let's not use the excuse that we are animals and thats what we should do when we clearly can control what to eat unlike "real" animals.

On a side note, their are humans who i would consider "real" animals and could use that excuse but most of them are in jail.

 

[billymills]

I'm always reminded of the quote on the Simpson's: "if it could, a Cow would eat you". It is 100 % true as well. We are at the top of the food chain, meat was made to be part of our diet, and animals who are lower on the food chain are fair game for to eat. The only issue j have is with eating endangered animals, but that's a whole different topic.

If I could, I would eat the whole sun in one sitting. Do we really want to go down this road?

I don't know if you're trying to throw creationism into here or something, but meat wasn't made for us. Meat exists and we exist, and we are capable of eating meat. This doesn't mean that we need to eat meat, or that we don't need to eat meat. Furthermore we created the food chain to describe what happens naturally. It is not illegal or otherwise incorrect to ignore the food chain. It is made up. It is not a strict ordering of species based on who is allowed to eat what.

 

[Trax]

lol whats your problem with Monsanto?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-20/gm-crops-in-wa-questioned-feature/4272748

Probably because their GM crops cause cancer (amongst other problems). Monsanto are fucking scum.

 

[RosebloomNixie]

lol whats your problem with Monsanto?

Anyways, i know the human comparison is extreme but these guys are acting like we are the same as snakes or lions. Do you think if a snake species was at the top of the food chain they would hesitate to eat their brothers and sisters? So let's not use the excuse that we are animals and thats what we should do when we clearly can control what to eat unlike "real" animals.

On a side note, their are humans who i would consider "real" animals and could use that excuse but most of them are in jail.

The point is, at the top of the food chain, you don't need to cannibalise.

 

[Outlaw]

I never understood why there is an issue with eating endangered species when people use the food chain excuse. And how those same people are disgusted at the thought of cannibalism. If you guys really believed in that idea you would have no problem eating pandas or a weaker human. It's a dumb excuse because we humans, while animals, are not part of the animal kingdom. We can't use their excuse. Nothing we do helps another species like all other animals do. We are living above natural selection and the food chain. We have no right to eat animals using the excuse of "because we are animals and are at top of the food chain" when we go ahead and completely ignore that just to not look bad and fit in with others on a regular basis.

The real reason why people eat meat is because they were taught it was safe to eat, doesn't taste like crap and it is socially acceptable. Not because of some dumb primal instinct.

I used to eat meat/animals but i found it hypocritical to eat a certain species just to fit in.

I don't eat pandas because no one will sell one to me.

And they probably taste like shit too.

I don't eat meat that tastes nasty, like deer.

If I could, I would eat the whole sun in one sitting. Do we really want to go down this road?

I don't know if you're trying to throw creationism into here or something, but meat wasn't made for us. Meat exists and we exist, and we are capable of eating meat. This doesn't mean that we need to eat meat, or that we don't need to eat meat. Furthermore we created the food chain to describe what happens naturally. It is not illegal or otherwise incorrect to ignore the food chain. It is made up. It is not a strict ordering of species based on who is allowed to eat what.

Silly billymills, suns aren't animals.

 

[michael]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-09-20/gm-crops-in-wa-questioned-feature/4272748

Probably because their GM crops cause cancer (amongst other problems). Monsanto are fucking scum.

I would urge you to read the full article, including that the crops had been sprayed with the weedkiller Roundup. If you take a read here (Wikipedia source), there is a description of "functional abnormalities in fetuses and pregnant rats" as a result of the active ingredient in the weedkiller in water being given to the rats regularly over a period of time.

As a result, the fact the study found "mammary tumours and severe liver and kidney damage" in the corn does not conclusively prove it is in fact the GM aspect of the corn.

Of course, I am not saying there are no side effects possible from GM food -- naturally there could be. I just want to make sure we don't leap to conclusions.

If you're interested in the full research article, it is here, from the US National Library of Medicine.

 

[capefeather]

I do recall our general appetite is actually an outdated primal instinct from when we had to take what we had because we didn't know when the next meal would be. So there is an evolutionary aspect of it, but yes, outdated primal instincts tend to be things we ought to be aware of and try to diminish.

 

[ivar]

don't quite understand the "top of the food chain argument". does that mean it's okay for bullies to beat up little kids for their lunch money or the popular kids to socially ostracize the lower rung losers because technically they are higher on the social hierarchy of school?

 

[moonbound]

don't quite understand the "top of the food chain argument". does that mean it's okay for bullies to beat up little kids for their lunch money or the popular kids to socially ostracize the lower rung losers because technically they are higher on the social hierarchy of school?

No, it doesn't. Bullies don't require the pain of other children in order to survive. Don't make bad comparisons to defend your opinion. From a purely biological standpoint, humans are omnivores that consume both plants and meat in order to gain the necessary nutrients from both, as some nutrients are more easily obtained from plants or meat, so there is an evolutionary advantage to eat both.

 

[icepick]

Indeed, most arguments against vegetarianism tend towards appeal to nature or appeal to tradition, which are fallacious.

 

[Aldaron]

This poll is silly.

"ever justifiable" includes all of the possibilities within the set of reasons to kill an animal.

to those who answered no...this means EVERY possible reason. it isn't justifiable to kill an animal for food to survive if every other food source in the world is gone?

Sorry, I'm not going to buy a "no it isn't justifiable, you should just die and let it live" argument because that it is utter nonsense.

Dumb poll, but to answer no is even dumber :adam: :adam: :adam:

 

[ssbbm]

no. we're not arguing against vegetarianism; rather, you are saying "meat is murder". you have the burden of proof.

most arguments against meat use appeal to emotions too!

also yeah the poll is stupid because this thread is consisted of people justifying their reasons for eating meat...

 

[iDunno]

I wish people would badmouthing GM foods. There is no conclusive evidence that they harm anyone and the benefits they bring are enormous. They have lowered food prices by a huge amount and have made it possible to grow foods in impoverished countries with harsh climates where they couldn't be grown before. The only reason why people think GM food is bad is because they think tampering with DNA is icky and because it allows for excessive use of pesticides. Until someone executes a valid study on the toxicity of GM foods, by all valid measure they are completely safe. Until then, GM foods are basically a necessity given that Americans over consume and are fat as fuck. Without them, we would be paying way too much to eat.

As for pesticides, rinse your food off before eating it...

Or just eat organic foods!

 

[Matthew]

Monsanto is the devil, not because of its GM products but because of its lack of ethics as a company.

 

[MrIndigo]

Monsanto is the devil, not because of its GM products but because of it's lack of ethics as a company.

Agreed - I think if it wasn't for Monsanto's terrible corporate ethics, especially the lawsuit they brought against farmers who had their crops contaminated by Monsanto's poorly secured GM crops, noone would give a shit about them.

The science backs GM.

 

[ivar]

No, it doesn't. Bullies don't require the pain of other children in order to survive. Don't make bad comparisons to defend your opinion. From a purely biological standpoint, humans are omnivores that consume both plants and meat in order to gain the necessary nutrients from both, as some nutrients are more easily obtained from plants or meat, so there is an evolutionary advantage to eat both.

i eat meat so im not making "bad comparisons" to defend my opinion. im playing devil's advocate; and your counter-point is shit btw.

ummm you dont need to eat meat to survive you dolt, otherwise vegans and vegetarians would be dying left and right; and yet for some reason they live LONGER than meat eaters because they're not getting cancer at the same high rate as meat eaters. we dont need nutrients from meat; true animal protein contains all the amino acids we need in order to be healthy, but a balanced serving of various kinds of beans give us the same thing. and seriously why does everyone give so much of a shit about nutrients when it comes to MEAT but never when it comes to fucking vegetables and fruits? how many of you eat a well-balanced diet including broccoli, avocado, asparagus, spinach, peppers, onions, rasberries, blueberries, bannanas, all that shit? how many of you honestly do? barely any i bet, yet meat nutrients are soooo fucking important. and let's not forget all the doritos and mountain dew you dorks consume while playing D & D--real fucking nutritious and helpful for survival there champ

from a biological standpoint we're omnivores? are you daft man, or still in high school? historically it has been evolutionarily advantageous to be omnivores who eat meat on rare occasions but food and nutrition technology and knowledge has advanced to the point where it is not necessary for us to be omnivores to survive.

there are three reasons to eat meat: you dont give a shit about animals and are okay with being a hypocrite or dont give a shit in general about being a moral person; the second is that you like the taste of meat; the third is that you are committed to your viewpoint and will defend it all costs.

anything else is complete and utter bullshit. as for me, i dont give a shit about being moral and i like the taste of meat, but im not gonna delude myself or give bad arguments to defend myself and make myself look good.

 

[ivar]

i mean think about it for a second. how many of you looked at all the moral implications of your decision to eat meat first and then made a decision about eating meat? nobody does that, your parents just gave you meat to eat and you didnt think a thing about it. not until your teenage years, maybe, did you even entertain the notion that eating meat is unethical or anything like that.

so basically you're defending your viewpoint in a backwards sort of way... AFTER you've already accepted it and integrated it in your life. so naturally you'll be defensive without even realizing it, and just come up with bullshit rationalizations.