Oh and no physically defensive set? bulkier than gliscor...
well about the same physically, much more specially.
well about the same physically, much more specially.
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Kyurem-B (Analysis)
- Thread starter AccidentalGreed
- Start date
Rock, Fighting, Steel and Dragon are types that are mostly seen on physical attackers, and Kyurem-B is weak to all those types
Kyurem-B's typing is far more useful against special attacks, as the only common attacks it's weak to are Focus Miss and Draco Meteor, while resisting Electric, Water, Grass and being neutral to Ice
Almost any defensive spreads that Kyurem-B uses will mostly be specially-oriented because its resistances are specially based. I'd only really consider a physically defensive spread on the Choice Band set and specific attacking sets so Kyurem-B isn't easily downed by Scizor's Bullet Punch or Keldeo's Secret Sword.
Also, I've slashed Dragon Claw on the Shuffler set, since even without a Hone claws, its Dragon Tail is already ridiculously powerful, and Kyurem-B needs some insurance against several threats in case it's not behind a Substitute. Hone Claws isn't even needed in many cases except accuracy. It should look like this now:
[SET]
name: Substitute Shuffler
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Hone Claws / Dragon Claw
move 3: Dragon Tail
move 4: Roost
items: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SpD / 56 Spe
Thoughts?
Also, I've slashed Dragon Claw on the Shuffler set, since even without a Hone claws, its Dragon Tail is already ridiculously powerful, and Kyurem-B needs some insurance against several threats in case it's not behind a Substitute. Hone Claws isn't even needed in many cases except accuracy. It should look like this now:
[SET]
name: Substitute Shuffler
move 1: Substitute
move 2: Hone Claws / Dragon Claw
move 3: Dragon Tail
move 4: Roost
items: Leftovers
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 64 Def / 136 SpD / 56 Spe
Thoughts?
Wow that's a lot of sets, all equally disappointing for me. I'm going to go through them one by one, but I'm not banking on getting to the end any time soon.
Physically based mixed: not something I especially like. Its special moves just aren't that useful. Could we consider, you know, not having it at the top? Otherwise, I think the first three moves are a given. However, the last move is somewhat questionable. Earth Power does not come especially close to OHKOing SpD heatran, while Fusion Bolt actually has a decent chance to 2HKO after SR (as does Focus Blast, if you can hit with it). Fusion Bolt just does more to Jirachi. If you were to run a +atk nature (which I would recommend, as a slash) then earth power would be almost useless. Hidden Power Fire I find extremely tempting, to quickly dispatch Scizor, Forretress, and Ferrothorn. Focus Blast is also pretty bad; it does less to the aforementioned steels outside of rain, and does little more than fusion bolt against heatran. I would actually slash it Hidden Power Fire / Dragon Claw myself. Dragon Claw is really amazing, because Kyurem is so powerful that people often need to sac stuff to it. Committing suicide by locking yourself in just to accept your opponent's sacrifice seems like a bad deal to me.
Specially based mixed: I find it completely astonishing that Draco meteor doesn't even get a slash on this set. I would slash it with Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast, and possibly consider removing focus blast because it's not very good. It won't OHKO Tyranitar, and it's outdamaged by HP fire or Earth Power against almost every target (excluding rain again). This set is designed to smash through stuff; how is it going to do that without its strongest move? Also, could you lose Dragon Claw please? Ice Beam replaces it as a reliable, staple move here.
CB: I don't like Ice Beam all that much. Only thing it really hits is gliscor, and maybe Landorus-T. Neither of these pokemon stands up to your Dragon STAB at all well. Gliscor is going to get is taking an enormous chunk from Outrage, use Protect if it has it, and just hope that you have a two-turn outrage. HP Fire is good to hit Forretress with - something that actually can stand up to your other attacks - and so deserves some sort of mention. Even Rock Smash is OK - it does comparable damage to ferrothorn as outrage, and gives you a good chance to force it straight back out with a defense drop. Also, could you make Dragon Claw sound a bit better - Outrage is so often suicidal that Dragon Claw is extremely useful - it's not just a filler move. To emphasise this I would even consider moving it up to the second slot.
Substitute Shuffler - Get rid of Dragon Claw. It's not a good idea. Generally, I really dislike SubRoost sets without pressure. Realistically you aren't going to stall something entirely out of pp. You really need to be able to take advantage of free turns to become more threatening, because otherwise the set is just a great big piece of setup bait, and actually invites the opponent to heal up all of his pokemon with recovery. Hone Claws completely changes this; if you don't keep attacking Kyurem, it's going to set up and plough through your team. Hone Claws is a necessity. Dragon tail is also very good, because it lets you bring in some setup bait, and gives kyurem the ability to deal with opposing stat boosters. No room for Dragon Claw.
Choice Scarf: Remove sleep talk, IMO. Scarf actually appreciates the special moves sometimes. Kyurem is a hilariously bad Breloom switch in, and so a poor choice for sleep talk.
Substitute Attacker: Can't say I ever really understood this set (Sub on an sr weak pokemon with no recovery), but I continue to hear good things about it from reputable players. I'm happy to leave the details to them.
Physically based mixed: not something I especially like. Its special moves just aren't that useful. Could we consider, you know, not having it at the top? Otherwise, I think the first three moves are a given. However, the last move is somewhat questionable. Earth Power does not come especially close to OHKOing SpD heatran, while Fusion Bolt actually has a decent chance to 2HKO after SR (as does Focus Blast, if you can hit with it). Fusion Bolt just does more to Jirachi. If you were to run a +atk nature (which I would recommend, as a slash) then earth power would be almost useless. Hidden Power Fire I find extremely tempting, to quickly dispatch Scizor, Forretress, and Ferrothorn. Focus Blast is also pretty bad; it does less to the aforementioned steels outside of rain, and does little more than fusion bolt against heatran. I would actually slash it Hidden Power Fire / Dragon Claw myself. Dragon Claw is really amazing, because Kyurem is so powerful that people often need to sac stuff to it. Committing suicide by locking yourself in just to accept your opponent's sacrifice seems like a bad deal to me.
Specially based mixed: I find it completely astonishing that Draco meteor doesn't even get a slash on this set. I would slash it with Hidden Power Fire / Focus Blast, and possibly consider removing focus blast because it's not very good. It won't OHKO Tyranitar, and it's outdamaged by HP fire or Earth Power against almost every target (excluding rain again). This set is designed to smash through stuff; how is it going to do that without its strongest move? Also, could you lose Dragon Claw please? Ice Beam replaces it as a reliable, staple move here.
CB: I don't like Ice Beam all that much. Only thing it really hits is gliscor, and maybe Landorus-T. Neither of these pokemon stands up to your Dragon STAB at all well. Gliscor is going to get is taking an enormous chunk from Outrage, use Protect if it has it, and just hope that you have a two-turn outrage. HP Fire is good to hit Forretress with - something that actually can stand up to your other attacks - and so deserves some sort of mention. Even Rock Smash is OK - it does comparable damage to ferrothorn as outrage, and gives you a good chance to force it straight back out with a defense drop. Also, could you make Dragon Claw sound a bit better - Outrage is so often suicidal that Dragon Claw is extremely useful - it's not just a filler move. To emphasise this I would even consider moving it up to the second slot.
Substitute Shuffler - Get rid of Dragon Claw. It's not a good idea. Generally, I really dislike SubRoost sets without pressure. Realistically you aren't going to stall something entirely out of pp. You really need to be able to take advantage of free turns to become more threatening, because otherwise the set is just a great big piece of setup bait, and actually invites the opponent to heal up all of his pokemon with recovery. Hone Claws completely changes this; if you don't keep attacking Kyurem, it's going to set up and plough through your team. Hone Claws is a necessity. Dragon tail is also very good, because it lets you bring in some setup bait, and gives kyurem the ability to deal with opposing stat boosters. No room for Dragon Claw.
Choice Scarf: Remove sleep talk, IMO. Scarf actually appreciates the special moves sometimes. Kyurem is a hilariously bad Breloom switch in, and so a poor choice for sleep talk.
Substitute Attacker: Can't say I ever really understood this set (Sub on an sr weak pokemon with no recovery), but I continue to hear good things about it from reputable players. I'm happy to leave the details to them.
I've used scarfed Kyurem-B and Naive+Earth Power completely outclasses any other options.
Ice Beam only helps with Lando-T and a fully physically invested Gliscor. Earth Power helps against or KOs Metagross, Bisharp, Jirachi, Heatran, Forretress, Cobalion and Magnezone. Sure most are uncommon, but they are all much bigger Outrage deterrents than Lando or Gliscor.
The -sDef really makes a difference against rogue mach punches and bullet punches. Kyurem-B has enough natural bulk to survive comfortable through a lot of those such as one from Metagross.
252 Atk Life Orb Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 174-211 (44.5 - 53.96%)
1 layer of rocks and spikes and Scarf Kyurem-B makes an amazing late-game cleaner.
Ice Beam only helps with Lando-T and a fully physically invested Gliscor. Earth Power helps against or KOs Metagross, Bisharp, Jirachi, Heatran, Forretress, Cobalion and Magnezone. Sure most are uncommon, but they are all much bigger Outrage deterrents than Lando or Gliscor.
The -sDef really makes a difference against rogue mach punches and bullet punches. Kyurem-B has enough natural bulk to survive comfortable through a lot of those such as one from Metagross.
252 Atk Life Orb Metagross Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Kyurem-B: 174-211 (44.5 - 53.96%)
1 layer of rocks and spikes and Scarf Kyurem-B makes an amazing late-game cleaner.
Ok AG, good job so far but i've got an issue with these natures.
1) Why does the Choice Band set have 4 nature slashes? That needs to be cut down in half, at least.
2) Why are Kyurem's main natures speed based? There is nothing in its speed bracket the would justify running +speed, other than outrunning itself. If we look at BW1 Haxorus, it's primary natures were Adamant, despite the fact that it could use Jolly to guarantee the ability to outspace opposing Adamant Haxorus and non-max speed Hydreigon. (and Haxorus was super common back then too!) The Jolly nature would also guarantee that Haxorus outspeed all Darmanitan (which was OU at the time) and a few other Pokemon. I don't feel like Kyurem-B is all that different to BW1 Haxorus. It's just another dragon added to the 97-98-99-100 totem pole. Listing +spe natures as the primary nature for its offensive sets feels like a senseless choice intended to force Haxorus/Hydreigon into running +spe natures. (that and I feel like choice band and choice scarf sets are straight up better when using +atk natures).
I'm not telling you to remove those speed natures, but they should be secondary options on all sets.
1) Why does the Choice Band set have 4 nature slashes? That needs to be cut down in half, at least.
2) Why are Kyurem's main natures speed based? There is nothing in its speed bracket the would justify running +speed, other than outrunning itself. If we look at BW1 Haxorus, it's primary natures were Adamant, despite the fact that it could use Jolly to guarantee the ability to outspace opposing Adamant Haxorus and non-max speed Hydreigon. (and Haxorus was super common back then too!) The Jolly nature would also guarantee that Haxorus outspeed all Darmanitan (which was OU at the time) and a few other Pokemon. I don't feel like Kyurem-B is all that different to BW1 Haxorus. It's just another dragon added to the 97-98-
I'm not telling you to remove those speed natures, but they should be secondary options on all sets.
I agree that Adamant may be the better option on Kyurem-B's Band set, but for its mixed sets, sub + 3 atk sets, and scarf set, the +ve Speed Nature is better, imo. 95 base Spe is slow enough to miss out on some big threats while fast enough to beat said threats with a Nature boost. These threats, as you highlighted, includes Adamant Haxorus, but now also Modest Rock Polish / Agility Landorus and Thundurus-T.
Scarf Set would definitely want to be able to revenge kill +1 Haxorus.
Scarf Set would definitely want to be able to revenge kill +1 Haxorus.
Okay I pretty much did everything you guys said up there, so please review my skeleton to see if I missed anything important and will later modify it. The most significant changes were changes to the moves in both offensive Mixed sets, and moving Physically Based Mix down a set.
(Did I mention that Substitute Shuffler Kyurem-B is pretty—excuse my French—fucking amazing with standard OU Golurk? You are now aware.)
(Did I mention that Substitute Shuffler Kyurem-B is pretty—excuse my French—fucking amazing with standard OU Golurk? You are now aware.)
SubShuffler Kyu-B does not need rain up to tank a Lava Plume from SpD Heatran (20.48 - 24.44%) so remove the bit where you say that Politoed is a good teammate and that the EVs are needed so that Kyu-B's Sub cannot break from Heatran's Lava Plume in rain. Finally in the AC of the same set it is mentioned that the Def EVs are there to prevent 0 SpA Starmie's Psyshock from breaking your Sub, which is false as Starmie with Psyshock does 18.06 - 21.36% to Kyu-B. Instead you may want to mention that with 252 HP and 76 Def EVs Specs Keldeo can never OHKO a healthy Kyu-B with Secret Sword.
[SET]
name: Wall Breaker
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Fusion Bolt
move 3: Blizzard
move 4: Roost
item: Rocky Helmet
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Loving this right now && combo it with a Scarf'd Staraptor and you're good to go.
name: Wall Breaker
move 1: Outrage
move 2: Fusion Bolt
move 3: Blizzard
move 4: Roost
item: Rocky Helmet
nature: Relaxed
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Loving this right now && combo it with a Scarf'd Staraptor and you're good to go.
I have a certain play style and it has been working perfectly for me.
Whoops. Its supposed to be relaxed.
Thank you very much, Alex.
Also, I highly doubt the the viability of the set recently posted because I'm not sure what the purpose of this set is (wallbreaker is misleading, and the use of Rocky Helmet in general is questionable on something that "wallbreaks").
Also, I highly doubt the the viability of the set recently posted because I'm not sure what the purpose of this set is (wallbreaker is misleading, and the use of Rocky Helmet in general is questionable on something that "wallbreaks").
I know people ill disagree with me, but I don't like the EV spread for the Choice Band set. The only reason to use Kuyrem-B over something faster is the power. If your not going to invest in attack, then go give your Choice Band to something like Salamence or Terrekion. I would use a spread of 192Hp 252Atk and 60Spe That's just my oppinion
Lol yea, max Atk on CB and Scarf set plz. Bulky spread should be an AC mention. A bulky spread for CB can be found herehttp://www.smogon.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4496158&postcount=17
Kyurem-B @ Light Clay
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Hp / 4 SpD or Def / 252 Spe
Hasty/Naive nature
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Dragon Claw
- Fusion Bolt
I think a Dual Screens set like this could work fairly well.
I won't hesitate too much on maximizing Attack on Choice Scarf Kyurem-B. However, I'll do some research/discussion (if we ever get to it) on Choice Band before making important edits on the EVs.
Also, a dual screens set is Other Options at best, since Kyurem only offers a little utility after setting up its screens (assuming it does set up the screens in the first place). There are much faster and more defensively convenient (more resistances, bulk, etc) Dual Screen users to turn to in OU, and in practice the strategy doesn't really work out well on it.
Also, a dual screens set is Other Options at best, since Kyurem only offers a little utility after setting up its screens (assuming it does set up the screens in the first place). There are much faster and more defensively convenient (more resistances, bulk, etc) Dual Screen users to turn to in OU, and in practice the strategy doesn't really work out well on it.
Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty/Naive nature
- Outrage
- Fusion Bolt
- Ice Beam/Blizzard
- Draco Meteor/Roost
I think this set would work better since wallbreakers generally capitalize on offense. Ice Beam over Blizzard since its more accurate but Blizzard works on hail teams. Draco Meteor over Roost for a powerful attack although Roost is an option.
Hone Claws Attacker:
Kyurem-B @ Life Orb
Ability: Teravolt
EVs: 4 Hp / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Hasty nature (+Spe, -Def)
- Hone Claws
- Blizzard
- Fusion Bolt
- Dragon Claw/Outrage
This set is fairly effective because Hone Claws makes Dragon Claw (or Outrage) and Fusion Bolt more powerful and boosts accuracy, making Blizzard less reliant on Hail.
And done, with personal approval, of course.
Substitute Attacker:
[qc]1/3[/qc]
- The EV's given are speed creep. You need 285 speed to sucessfully outspeed Jolly Mamoswine and Jolly Dragonite. Because of this, please change the EV's to 56 HP / 216 Atk / 236 Spe. The current spread gives you 286 Speed.
- I honestly dislike Hidden Power Fire. It's weak, and it really is only for Forretress and Ferrothorn. Make it the 3rd slash; Roost has more use.
- Earth Power can't 2HKO SpDef Jirachi and is only for Heatran. Ice Beam hits Landorus-T, Gliscor, Breloom, etc. and it is far more useful. Make Ice Beam the primary slash.
- Please make the main spread 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe. It's the same as any other Band Dragon, you need max attack to help break through defensive Pokemon such as Forretress, Ferrothorn and Hippowdon. If you want a bulky spread for AC..
-
- Slash Ice Beam after Hone Claws. It can OHKO the Therians while never being OHKO'd by any of their moves, even Modest Landorus's Sheer Force Life Orb Focus Blast. Skarmory can no longer set up Spikes in front of it, and it can nail Hippowdon as well.
[qc]1/3[/qc]
