Staraptor and Weavile are too uncommmon. keldeo KOs haxorus with hidden power ice. If it doesn't have that, it won't switch. Worse, any steel could switch in not fearing haxorus less if it had a LO. Your scenarios are too isolated and would rarely if ever happen.
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Creative / Underrated Sets Thread (Read the thread, NO SHITTY GIMMICKS)
- Thread starter Tobes
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Staraptor and Weavile are too uncommmon. keldeo KOs haxorus with hidden power ice. If it doesn't have that, it won't switch. Worse, any steel could switch in not fearing haxorus less if it had a LO. Your scenarios are too isolated and would rarely if ever happen.
bri recommended this to me and it is amazing (underrated set) --
Snorlax @ Choice Band
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 176 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Pursuit
- Fire Punch
- Superpower
A lot of people don't like Snorlax, but I personally find it an excellent Pokemon. The premise behind this set is this have basically a utility check to a ton of threats, such as Volcarona, the Lati twins, Gengar, Venusaur, and other special attackers. The most important move on the set is definitely Pursuit. It does a crap load to the Lati twins (Latios's Specs Draco Meteor does a bit over half but doesn't 2HKO most of the time) as they switch out. The main thing, however, is that it gives Snorlax a way to hit Gengar (Focus Blast doesn't KO) and Jellicent that think they can just switch in for free. It also hits Celebi hard (it quickly finds out it can't do much damage to Snorlax). Pursuit can also hit Politoed and Ninetales (watch out for Will- O- Wisp) as they switch out, which can help with the weather war. Fire Punch is for Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Jirachi, and other Steel-types that like to switch in predicting a Normal STAB. With Body Slam, you might ask yourself, what!? On a Choice set!? No, it's not a joke. I find that Snorlax doesn't use it much, as Pursuit or another move is usually the best choice, but having a reliable STAB move is needed. The paralysis chance is the main draw. Especially of they carry Reflect, it's much more productive to paralyze CM Latias and give a teammate the ability to beat it rather than try and do recoverable damage with Pursuit. It also helps with Volcarona, which Snorlax excels against due to Thick Fat, though Flame Body is a bitch sometimes. It also helps against Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T (oh how fun it is to paralyze this thing). The last move is Superpower, which I use to hit Heatran (guess what it counters it but watch out for Toxic!), Tyranitar, and the blobs hard. The EVs allow Snorlax to take a CBtar Crunch, hit hard, and have some special bulk. This special bulk allows Snorlax to take on many special threats well. Combine this with the cool Fire (helps against sun) and Ice resistances Thick Fat provides and you've got an excellent Pokemon. Also it fucks up people that expect Curselax for whatever reason. :p
EDIT: I can get some replays if you'd like, just later. I'm on my kindle so I don't have any right this second.
Snorlax @ Choice Band
Trait: Thick Fat
EVs: 40 HP / 252 Atk / 40 Def / 176 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Body Slam
- Pursuit
- Fire Punch
- Superpower
A lot of people don't like Snorlax, but I personally find it an excellent Pokemon. The premise behind this set is this have basically a utility check to a ton of threats, such as Volcarona, the Lati twins, Gengar, Venusaur, and other special attackers. The most important move on the set is definitely Pursuit. It does a crap load to the Lati twins (Latios's Specs Draco Meteor does a bit over half but doesn't 2HKO most of the time) as they switch out. The main thing, however, is that it gives Snorlax a way to hit Gengar (Focus Blast doesn't KO) and Jellicent that think they can just switch in for free. It also hits Celebi hard (it quickly finds out it can't do much damage to Snorlax). Pursuit can also hit Politoed and Ninetales (watch out for Will- O- Wisp) as they switch out, which can help with the weather war. Fire Punch is for Ferrothorn, Skarmory, Jirachi, and other Steel-types that like to switch in predicting a Normal STAB. With Body Slam, you might ask yourself, what!? On a Choice set!? No, it's not a joke. I find that Snorlax doesn't use it much, as Pursuit or another move is usually the best choice, but having a reliable STAB move is needed. The paralysis chance is the main draw. Especially of they carry Reflect, it's much more productive to paralyze CM Latias and give a teammate the ability to beat it rather than try and do recoverable damage with Pursuit. It also helps with Volcarona, which Snorlax excels against due to Thick Fat, though Flame Body is a bitch sometimes. It also helps against Tornadus-T and Thundurus-T (oh how fun it is to paralyze this thing). The last move is Superpower, which I use to hit Heatran (guess what it counters it but watch out for Toxic!), Tyranitar, and the blobs hard. The EVs allow Snorlax to take a CBtar Crunch, hit hard, and have some special bulk. This special bulk allows Snorlax to take on many special threats well. Combine this with the cool Fire (helps against sun) and Ice resistances Thick Fat provides and you've got an excellent Pokemon. Also it fucks up people that expect Curselax for whatever reason. :p
EDIT: I can get some replays if you'd like, just later. I'm on my kindle so I don't have any right this second.
The pokemon being uncommon has absolutely nothing to do with what I was saying. For your reference a scarfed brave bird from Staraptor hits harder then a super effective scarfed hidden power ice from Keldeo (its strongest move against Haxorus).
Not only that but I only said the Landorus was bulky and used Weavile to demonstrate how bulky it was (for reference)....
Lol @ too isolated, a reckless scarfed brave bird is more powerful then Terrakions scarfed close combat against Haxorus (for reference)..
I'm saying Staraptor is not a good a good example, because it's not OU and not OU material.
LO is better than Dragon Gem probably 95% of the time.
Try this set:
Magnezone @ Leftovers
Trait: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Def / 80 Spd / 176 HP
Bold Nature
- Thunderbolt/thunder/sub
- Iron Defense
- Charge Beam
- Hidden Power [Ice]
If you get a scizor to lock to BP, you get +6 Boltbeam. Same with ferrothorn. This can trap Jirachi.
Kyurem-Black @ Leftovers
Trait: Teravolt
EVs: 64 Def / 252 HP / 56 Spd / 136 SDef
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Dragon Tail
- Hone Claws
This set can single-handedly carry teams. I found this set here and have incorporated it into my team.
I didn't design the EV's for this set, but they allow Kyrem-b to setup on resisted or weak special attacks. Once you switch into a weak attack, use Substitute. Then you can use Hone Claws to boost your attack and Roost to recover as needed. Dragon Tail is used to phaze pokemon as well as your only source of dealing damage. Kyurem-b likes Entry Hazards, however it isn't reliant upon them. If you, though, Stealth Rock helps break Focus Sashes. Spikes helps, but isn't mandatory.
Thought Roost helps to recover HP, Kyrem-b has no protection against status. Toxic is the absolute worst, with Regular Poison being the most benign. Still, avoid it if you can. Also, Kyrem-b should have a Substitute up as much as you can as it is an essential buffer against many frail but fast attackers (like DD Salamence for example, who OHKOs with Outrage without needing to boost up). Letting the Substitute take the hit lets you cleanly phaze them out and usually kill them.
Replays:
I'll post some as I find good ones, but here's a recent one.
Replay 1: (I'm 456456)
Kyurem-b is switched into Politoed because it takes minimal damage from most of its attacks and I didn't predict a status move. In hindsight, I should have set up one more Hone Claws against Starmie, so as to deal more damage later in the game.
With dragon tail having negative priority and the only need for kyurem is 101 hp substitutes couldn't u just put 52 in HP take away the remaining by investing in bulk and remove the speed EVs and share it in bulk u won't need speed cuz most threats that r faster than u can't break through subs if I invest that much defense also politoed won't be doin crap and u can survive scizors conked and breloom blows more easily so I would use 52 HP / 204 def / 252 spDef with careful nature dragon tail won't bein speed crap u can still outspeed every phaser with 95 base speed most won't invest in speed and if they do it's a crap gimmick and u can do more damage to it and easily will it be fainted.
Sry I'm on ipadnso bad grammar in post
Thundurus-T (M) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
Yeah it only takes one look at the moveset to know exactly what this guy does. His plethora of common resistances and immunities make set-up a breeze for Thundurus-T. Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, Bronzong, and other offensively-challenged Pokemon are complete setup bait for Thundurus with Sub keeping him safe from status. His base 101 Speed keeps him ahead of most Scarf Pokemon after a Salac boost and makes it extremely easy to spam Substitute until Salac activates. His massive Special Attack stat crushes foes after a Nasty Plot. I mean there's honestly not a lot to explain. The set is damn good at what it does and a very nasty late-game surprise.
Arceus help you if you run stall and see this thing. Chansey can't save you and your last resort scarfer probably can't either. Latias is a good check but Nasty Plot Thunder is still gonna hurt like hell.
Isn't Volt Absorb counter productive with Salac Berry ?
Replays? Not sure how effective this can be against Lati@s, Landorus, Gliscor, Celebi, pretty much anything that it could normally handle with HP Ice.
Thundurus-T (M) @ Salac Berry
Trait: Volt Absorb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Nasty Plot
- Thunderbolt / Thunder
- Focus Blast
- Substitute
Yeah it only takes one look at the moveset to know exactly what this guy does. His plethora of common resistances and immunities make set-up a breeze for Thundurus-T. Ferrothorn, Forretress, Skarmory, Bronzong, and other offensively-challenged Pokemon are complete setup bait for Thundurus with Sub keeping him safe from status. His base 101 Speed keeps him ahead of most Scarf Pokemon after a Salac boost and makes it extremely easy to spam Substitute until Salac activates. His massive Special Attack stat crushes foes after a Nasty Plot. I mean there's honestly not a lot to explain. The set is damn good at what it does and a very nasty late-game surprise.
Arceus help you if you run stall and see this thing. Chansey can't save you and your last resort scarfer probably can't either. Latias is a good check but Nasty Plot Thunder is still gonna hurt like hell.
Hidden Power Ice can easily be used over Focus Blast imo. Thundurus-T gets great coverage between Thunderbolt/Thunder + HP Ice, and with Nasty Plot you can eventually power through Pokemon like Ferrothorn or Chansey (main reason for Focus Blast?). But it does seem like a rather interesting set, and quite a deadly sweeper.
I'm not sure if anyone really knows this Quagsire set, but it stops boosting sweepers in their tracks and in turn sets up on them.
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Curse
With the Unaware ability, Quagsire can stop Pokemon that has set up a few boosts from sweeping your team. Maybe a +6 Attack Terrakion is sweeping your team, or a +6 SpA Latias? Here are some calcs.
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Quagsire: 222-262 (56.34 - 66.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 100-118 (25.38 - 29.94%) -- possible 4HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Quagsire: 162-192 (41.11 - 48.73%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 134-158 (34.01 - 40.1%) -- 39.67% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Jirachi Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 41-48 (10.4 - 12.18%) -- 9HKO at best
These are but a few of the many calcs that relate to Quagsire. As you can see, Quagsire takes these Pokemon's hits like nothing and can just Recover + Curse stall them. In the end, Quagsire can very well end up doing a lot for your team. A CC from Terrakion only 2HKOs. During which, Quagsire can Recover stall and proceed to Waterfall after Terrakion's defence has been reduced greatly. Waterfall and Earthquake are the standard coverage options for Quagsire. Recover gives Quagsire stalling capabilities while Curse allows Quagsire to set up on Pokemon that can't hurt him.
Here is another moveset that I wouldn't really recommend over the Curse set but it works a few times too. This is more of a stalling set.
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Stockpile
- Earthquake / Toxic
This set aims to stop boosting physical sweepers and in turn set up on them. Stockpile allows you to set up +3 on both the defensive and specially defensive sides. Scald is used to burn physical attackers and maybe get some residual damage off on other pokemon. Recover is to get back your lost HP. On the last slot, it is based on preference. Earthquake gives you better coverage against Pokemon that resist water-type attacks while Toxic allows you to wear down other stall Pokemon or Pokemon that attempt to set up on you. It might not be a very good option though, as you have another status-inducing move by the name of "Scald".
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Curse
With the Unaware ability, Quagsire can stop Pokemon that has set up a few boosts from sweeping your team. Maybe a +6 Attack Terrakion is sweeping your team, or a +6 SpA Latias? Here are some calcs.
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Quagsire: 222-262 (56.34 - 66.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 100-118 (25.38 - 29.94%) -- possible 4HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Quagsire: 162-192 (41.11 - 48.73%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 134-158 (34.01 - 40.1%) -- 39.67% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Jirachi Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 41-48 (10.4 - 12.18%) -- 9HKO at best
These are but a few of the many calcs that relate to Quagsire. As you can see, Quagsire takes these Pokemon's hits like nothing and can just Recover + Curse stall them. In the end, Quagsire can very well end up doing a lot for your team. A CC from Terrakion only 2HKOs. During which, Quagsire can Recover stall and proceed to Waterfall after Terrakion's defence has been reduced greatly. Waterfall and Earthquake are the standard coverage options for Quagsire. Recover gives Quagsire stalling capabilities while Curse allows Quagsire to set up on Pokemon that can't hurt him.
Here is another moveset that I wouldn't really recommend over the Curse set but it works a few times too. This is more of a stalling set.
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Stockpile
- Earthquake / Toxic
This set aims to stop boosting physical sweepers and in turn set up on them. Stockpile allows you to set up +3 on both the defensive and specially defensive sides. Scald is used to burn physical attackers and maybe get some residual damage off on other pokemon. Recover is to get back your lost HP. On the last slot, it is based on preference. Earthquake gives you better coverage against Pokemon that resist water-type attacks while Toxic allows you to wear down other stall Pokemon or Pokemon that attempt to set up on you. It might not be a very good option though, as you have another status-inducing move by the name of "Scald".
I'm not sure if anyone really knows this Quagsire set, but it stops boosting sweepers in their tracks and in turn sets up on them.
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SDef
Careful Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Recover
- Curse
With the Unaware ability, Quagsire can stop Pokemon that has set up a few boosts from sweeping your team. Maybe a +6 Attack Terrakion is sweeping your team, or a +6 SpA Latias? Here are some calcs.
252 Atk Terrakion Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Quagsire: 222-262 (56.34 - 66.49%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Latias Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 100-118 (25.38 - 29.94%) -- possible 4HKO
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Quagsire: 162-192 (41.11 - 48.73%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Thundurus-T Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 134-158 (34.01 - 40.1%) -- 39.67% chance to 3HKO
4 SpA Jirachi Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Quagsire: 41-48 (10.4 - 12.18%) -- 9HKO at best
These are but a few of the many calcs that relate to Quagsire. As you can see, Quagsire takes these Pokemon's hits like nothing and can just Recover + Curse stall them. In the end, Quagsire can very well end up doing a lot for your team. A CC from Terrakion only 2HKOs. During which, Quagsire can Recover stall and proceed to Waterfall after Terrakion's defence has been reduced greatly. Waterfall and Earthquake are the standard coverage options for Quagsire. Recover gives Quagsire stalling capabilities while Curse allows Quagsire to set up on Pokemon that can't hurt him.
Here is another moveset that I wouldn't really recommend over the Curse set but it works a few times too. This is more of a stalling set.
Quagsire @ Leftovers
Trait: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Scald
- Recover
- Stockpile
- Earthquake / Toxic
This set aims to stop boosting physical sweepers and in turn set up on them. Stockpile allows you to set up +3 on both the defensive and specially defensive sides. Scald is used to burn physical attackers and maybe get some residual damage off on other pokemon. Recover is to get back your lost HP. On the last slot, it is based on preference. Earthquake gives you better coverage against Pokemon that resist water-type attacks while Toxic allows you to wear down other stall Pokemon or Pokemon that attempt to set up on you. It might not be a very good option though, as you have another status-inducing move by the name of "Scald".
The problem with recover stalling is that you will get critted eventually.
Citing Hax as a reason for or against anything outside of Serene Grace Pokemon or anything below a 30% threshold is a flimsy argument at the very best.
Since Terrakion is faster than Quagsire, Quagsire cannot switch in safely, and even if it switches in safely, Terrakion can 2HKO it, so there's no time to toxic it or scald it, making you just lose health over time, not even taking into account possible crits.
A crit is not likely to happen after 1 recover, but it becomes likely after several recovers. After 5 turns, the chance of getting hit by a critical hit is about 30%. And it's almost 50% after 10 turns.
Against Terrakion, you might only have to recover once or twice to lower the defenses (taking 2-3 hits). But what about when you set up against a Conkeldurr? Or a Thundurus?
Backing this up, HP Flying is great for throwing opponents off guard. It works great as a secondary STAB, good for throwing out while your opponent figures that you'll Thunder/bolt.
Percentages do not add that way. It is 6% every single turn. That means after 100 turns of battle, you are most likely to see 6 crits.
Also, Unaware lets you bypass any boosting the enemy has done, but they can't ignore yours, so I'm not sure you get how the set works.
The chance that at least one crit will have happened after n attacks is:
Chance=1-0,9375^n, which is about 0,28 for n=5 and and about 0,48 when n=10.
Although the opponent can't ignore your boosts, the special attacks won't mind the curses and it won't be sweeping before it got at least 4 boosts. That's 4 turns boosting, one turn each time it attacks (because it will be slower than the opponent) and a significant amount of turns using recover.
For the physical attackers, most of them won't be KO'ing Quagsire without two consecutive critical hits after it have a few curses. But getting the 2-3 first curses will take a lot of turns as it will have to use recover a lot.
Well then it's a good thing Recover has a shit ton more PP than CC or anything else super powerful. The idea is to stall til the opponent switches out, or runs out of PP on that power move. Then, begin Cursing up, Recovering as needed.
There are two reasons I don't like Quagsire as much as I did in BW1. The first is that its mediocre Special Defense means that it can't stand up to the most common team archetype, rain; it struggles to survive those incredibly strong Hurricanes & Hydro Pumps that rain teams dish out while not really dealing too much damage back. The second reason I don't really like it is that its role is to stop boosting sweepers, and that doesn't exactly work against one of the most popular mons in that category, Breloom, whose Bullet Seed slaughters it. Quag isn't bad, but in this stage of the metagame I think it takes too much support to be worth spending a team slot for it.
CC got 8 pp, suppose it got 5 left, that'll be a 28% chance of being critted before you even start using curse. Against Terrakion, you can let it CC once to lower the defenses and then hit it with an eq as it uses the 2nd CC, that's the safest (or however many def drops it takes, I haven't calced it). Conkeldurr is more of a problem as you will have to stall out all the drain punch pp's. Or a Latias with enough sp. atk ev's to 3HKO the quagsire with dragon pulse.
If Staraptor ain'nt OU material then dress me up in feathers and scream pinata!