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Serious Teacher loses appeal to return to teaching because of history in pornography
- Thread starter TheValkyries
- Start date
Unfortunately, sometimes you have to commit yourself to the unpopular opinion/course of action if you're ever going to make things like "a culture more supportive of porn and open sexuality" a modern reality. Change isn't born in day dreams and silent prayers.
as for my comment about a male in porn not receiving the same sort of back lash - yes, I'm sure the faculty would find it wholly just as unacceptable as they do for this woman, but rather the societal reaction/reaction of the students would be far different. which do you think is more likely - a male teacher getting affirmation from his male students for being popular for fucking women, or made fun of? (and i only single out the male students in this parallel because i doubt any of the female students were the ones cat-calling their teacher)
anyway, whether or not the teacher is male or female is irrelevant, obviously. the entire case is silly, and hopefully society can come to terms with what every human being's biological imperative is on this earth, and how each of us choose to explore and flourish in it!
So you want to support porn and more open sexuality... by accepting the firing of women who have worked in porn, preventing them from teaching... because you think that all 13 year olds will be utterly incapable of behaving themselves in front of someone who they've seen in pornos before?
I mean, I understand thinking very little of 13 year olds, I think they're pretty fucking terrible myself, but you have someone in this thread that has literally already been taught by this woman saying that this shit wasn't a problem for his particular class. You need to punish the wrongdoers, otherwise you end up in this situation where you're punishing the victim and empowering those assholes to continue doing the shit they do. You can't keep/accept the status quo in a culture and then be like "I want this culture to change!" if you're actually expecting something to be different in the future.
If there was a situation where the entire class is disruptive because HUR HUR VAGINAS, I say punish all of them. It's the little fuckers that deserve some discipline, not this woman.
being taken seriously is one thing, being able to even find a job as a teacher is another. It's no secret that society is more wary of male teachers around their children, and I can't even imagine a scenario where a man who was known to be in porn gets a job as a teacher in any grade K-12.
I don't know, to be honest. I could see female students giving the female porn star teacher a hard time (after all, there's a huge amount of slut-shaming that goes on between women, especially at high-school age).
I'm also not sure male students would be affirming towards a male porn star teacher; I feel like they'd normally be more affirming of a female porn star teacher.
EDIT: I also agree with pope; men already find it pretty hard to get employed as teachers because of the pedofear, I can't imagine it would be better with a porn history.
Is that actually a thing, or is it just something people say to explain the disparity between male and female employment in teaching? Because the pedofear is a relatively recent phenomenon (at least to the degree it exists now), and male employment in teaching has reduced at a far lower rate than male participation in education training has... at least in terms of primary/pre-school teaching, where the disparity is the largest.
I mean I don't doubt that guys would find it harder to get employed if it was known they were involved with porn to begin with due to pedofear bullshit, I just haven't heard anything about that fear keeping men out of the education industry in itself.
What. The. Hell?
I fail to see the issue here. Well that's not true, I understand the disruptiveness of the issue as a whole. However she should be allowed to teach should she be able to find an environment that supports their teachers and one where the negatives in the classroom are dealt with properly.
So what if she used to be a porn star. It's a profession, it's an entirely legal profession and she was only a porn actress while not teaching. There is literally nothing wrong with that.
I fail to see the issue here. Well that's not true, I understand the disruptiveness of the issue as a whole. However she should be allowed to teach should she be able to find an environment that supports their teachers and one where the negatives in the classroom are dealt with properly.
So what if she used to be a porn star. It's a profession, it's an entirely legal profession and she was only a porn actress while not teaching. There is literally nothing wrong with that.
One way to approach this is put yourself in the parent's shoes, and you've known one day that your kid's teacher is an ex-porn star featured in the film you've just watch...
Um... no way. It will always give me doubts on what the hell is my kid learning. Is she safe? Doubts doubts doubts. I'm just a human.
I know what I've said is stupid, closed minded, judgemental, inhumane and shitty, but that's the reality of being a parent. As a father myself, I always want the best for my kids. I always want them to be safe. I always care for what they are learning in school. I'll always have doubts. So, I agree with the judges for that reason only.
Um... no way. It will always give me doubts on what the hell is my kid learning. Is she safe? Doubts doubts doubts. I'm just a human.
I know what I've said is stupid, closed minded, judgemental, inhumane and shitty, but that's the reality of being a parent. As a father myself, I always want the best for my kids. I always want them to be safe. I always care for what they are learning in school. I'll always have doubts. So, I agree with the judges for that reason only.
Once a teacher loses the respect of his or her class, there's no realistic way to be effective at the job. Teenagers are hell; she'd be putting herself in a compromising position by returning to the classroom, because her past is always one porn search away. In my opinion, the original decision was optimal (not to be confused with "right") for all parties.
Whoever decided to parade this issue in public has essentially martyred her future (in any employment) for a cause.
My $0.02; I'm only concerned with the content of somebody's character and where that person is going, not where he or she has come from.
On a technicality, I think she should be allowed to teach, but no school would actually employ her. Call it discrimination, call it what you will, but a school has a duty to its stakeholders, namely:
- Their students: if her past is revealed, she won't be able to do her job. It doesn't matter if she's the best teacher in the world, kids are unforgiving.
- Parents/wider community: rightly or wrongly, many will have a moral objection against her employment, and the school must be sympathetic to this.
- The teaching profession: if/when the shit hits the fan, this can be seen as bringing the profession into disrepute.
There's more to the story, but these are the main points that I wanted to address. In short, hiring her would be a liability.
Whoever decided to parade this issue in public has essentially martyred her future (in any employment) for a cause.
My $0.02; I'm only concerned with the content of somebody's character and where that person is going, not where he or she has come from.
On a technicality, I think she should be allowed to teach, but no school would actually employ her. Call it discrimination, call it what you will, but a school has a duty to its stakeholders, namely:
- Their students: if her past is revealed, she won't be able to do her job. It doesn't matter if she's the best teacher in the world, kids are unforgiving.
- Parents/wider community: rightly or wrongly, many will have a moral objection against her employment, and the school must be sympathetic to this.
- The teaching profession: if/when the shit hits the fan, this can be seen as bringing the profession into disrepute.
There's more to the story, but these are the main points that I wanted to address. In short, hiring her would be a liability.
From the way the article puts it, her past was clearly affecting her ability to be effective in the classroom. That, and the school was getting hell from the parents, too. It's not necessarily "right", I mean having 8 months from your youth disqualify you for life from gainful employment in a certain profession is utter shit, but this is a complicated issue about what people are expected to tolerate from the pasts of people in certain professions. The only real solution seemed to be to let her go, from the way the article puts it.
However, I think it is wrong to say this is the right decision because of "her past choices", as the superintendent puts it. It's one thing to oust her because her past was impacting her capacity to teach in a real, concrete way, or because the school would have struggled to maintain facilities as alumni and donors ran for the hills. It's another to say that former porn stars are terrible people with terrible life choices that, consequently, employers have a right to just fire for no cause other than "icky past" (even if that "icky past" was, as the article puts it, just a way to make ends meet).
What I want to know is how/if a teacher's union had a role in this. I'm not sure how union representation of teachers works in CA, much less this county, but if she had representation and the union wouldn't even back her up, that's pretty telling about just how unacceptable people find teachers with a past in pornography, no matter the circumstances.
However, I think it is wrong to say this is the right decision because of "her past choices", as the superintendent puts it. It's one thing to oust her because her past was impacting her capacity to teach in a real, concrete way, or because the school would have struggled to maintain facilities as alumni and donors ran for the hills. It's another to say that former porn stars are terrible people with terrible life choices that, consequently, employers have a right to just fire for no cause other than "icky past" (even if that "icky past" was, as the article puts it, just a way to make ends meet).
What I want to know is how/if a teacher's union had a role in this. I'm not sure how union representation of teachers works in CA, much less this county, but if she had representation and the union wouldn't even back her up, that's pretty telling about just how unacceptable people find teachers with a past in pornography, no matter the circumstances.
Sucks for her. She'll probably never get hired again.
Parents are not known to think rationally in situations involving children, as weird as that sounds. I get that there's a logistical issue here and firing her might be the best solution in the short run (though even then she should have some form of compensation because seriously). At the same time, I see this as a situation where something can actually be changed. This could be one time when people can actually stand up for someone against prejudices and the attitudes of disruptive students and parents. At the same time, it would leave a certain impression on young teenagers that can't necessarily be taught in a curriculum, that there are causes you can and should fight for to achieve real change. I can understand where everybody is coming from, but I also think that this is a wasted opportunity. I'd almost call it a slap in the face to people who can only support their causes symbolically - people who practice safe driving and car maintenance, or turn off the lights all the time, or cut down on their intake of arbitrarily obtained meat, or donate to NGOs. The people in this scenario have so much power and they're there to use that power.
It doesn't matter that a specific case out of many similar ones has been singled out. It matters that any of them at all has gained news attention.
It doesn't matter that a specific case out of many similar ones has been singled out. It matters that any of them at all has gained news attention.
So any teacher with a lisp or funny accent or any kind of disability or birth defect or anything that would distract 11-14 year olds can't teach? Kids are fucking dumb and will pick at least one teacher to find SOMETHING to ridicule them for and be stupid in their class. I've seen teachers who are great at teaching willing kids (but bad at getting bad kids to behave/respect them) be completely compromised because they had a thick accent. All it takes is one asshole to go, "What? What did they say? I can't understand?" or mimic the accent to completely ruin that teachers ability if the teacher can't demand respect from the class. Should these people expect to be discriminated against in the hiring process as well?
No. We need to train teachers to be able to handle kids like this and then administration needs to back them up. I had a teacher who kids made fun of for wearing the same clothes every day behind his back and for his jeans being too tight, worn too high, and too far from his ankles but it was never a distraction in class because he knew how to make kids respect him and keep order in his class. Of course he sometimes did this by embarrassing anyone who tried to disrupt his class which probably isn't good but it was 11th grade and it wasn't his only tactic so it wasn't that big a deal.
No. We need to train teachers to be able to handle kids like this and then administration needs to back them up. I had a teacher who kids made fun of for wearing the same clothes every day behind his back and for his jeans being too tight, worn too high, and too far from his ankles but it was never a distraction in class because he knew how to make kids respect him and keep order in his class. Of course he sometimes did this by embarrassing anyone who tried to disrupt his class which probably isn't good but it was 11th grade and it wasn't his only tactic so it wasn't that big a deal.
I thought this too at first. But when you realize that porn is easily accessible in college, you find out she may not be respected at the collegiate level either. Some college students/professors won't judge her, but there will always be the "bad apples" in the 18-22 yr old group or w/e.
But yeah, this really, really sucks for this woman. I honestly feel very bad for her. The fact that you can still pull up her videos long after she's left the industry is actually what pisses me off about the porn industry. That should tell you they are all about the money at the end of the day. Even if her vids are on a free streaming site, the free sites are typically gateway to go to the paid ones. Not everyone will go that route, but many do.
Man, if people knew what actually went on behind the scenes of a lot of these porn sets, this wouldn't be said. The woman obviously needed money and that is how the "scouts", for lack of a better term (I guess some people call them johns), get you. It's a predator/prey situation. There are also typically drugs and alcohol on the sets. A lot of the girls have to get high to do certain scenes that they didn't agree to do because they are told one thing and just before they shoot, everything changes.
Getting back more on topic, middle school kids are terrible...maybe worse than high school kids, so I doubt she would continue to be effective as a teacher, like many have already said. I mean...she was getting cat-called her stage name by the kids in class for crying out loud. So I understand the administration's decisions. It'd just be too much to deal with just to keep her (outraged parents, some students can't focus, etc). She is not done for good. Since she was only in the industry 8-9 months, she just has to wait until the videos can no longer be found; when they are considered "old". That could take years though. And that's being optimistic.
Well, her porn name is Tiffany Six iirc.
She knew full well what societies views on pornography were and if she didn't then she is a moron. Simple as that. Instead of getting a part-time job or student loans, she chose to make her money through porn, which is fine as long as she realizes there are consequences for getting caught. If she didn't want the risk, shouldn't have done porn.
She could have chosen to teach younger children, before hormones kick in and they start actively searching for porn. Would have been a lot less risky in terms of getting caught, as only desperate horny teachers would be searching for her shit.
To the guy that asked if every teacher with a disability or birth defect would get ridiculed as well, you can't really compare something that she CHOSE to partake in with something that can't be helped. I think it ultimately depends on the teacher. I had a teacher in high school, and despite his disability he was a great teacher and everyone respected him. On the other hand, I also had a teacher who was a total bitch, so we would go out of our way to be mean to her, find ways to get to her and almost gave her a mental breakdown lol. Maybe that's what happened here.
Also, thick accents are distracting as fuck, I had a teacher in community college who was hispanic and talked way too fast, with his accent I couldn't understand very much of what he was saying.
She could have chosen to teach younger children, before hormones kick in and they start actively searching for porn. Would have been a lot less risky in terms of getting caught, as only desperate horny teachers would be searching for her shit.
To the guy that asked if every teacher with a disability or birth defect would get ridiculed as well, you can't really compare something that she CHOSE to partake in with something that can't be helped. I think it ultimately depends on the teacher. I had a teacher in high school, and despite his disability he was a great teacher and everyone respected him. On the other hand, I also had a teacher who was a total bitch, so we would go out of our way to be mean to her, find ways to get to her and almost gave her a mental breakdown lol. Maybe that's what happened here.
Also, thick accents are distracting as fuck, I had a teacher in community college who was hispanic and talked way too fast, with his accent I couldn't understand very much of what he was saying.
I obviously 100% agree with you and would normally never be the guy who inserts "but what about teh menzzz???" into every debate, but I distinctly remember reading about a similar case involving a dude who was fired for appearing in 3 pornographic films 30 years prior.
ala, you're a victim blaming asshole. she did porn because she fell on hard times and desperately needed the money. people shouldn't have to have their entire lives ruined because they joined the sex industry once. not to mention it wasn't a student that initially caught her
No I agree, but it is her fault because she knew the risks. "Fell on hard times" lol so she was forced to do gangbangs for money? I guess everyone poverty stricken should go into the porn business. She's playing the victim "oh poor me I got caught doing something that is frowned upon while teaching children whose parents are obviously going to be outraged by my actions" when she only has herself to blame for making a stupid fucking decision without thinking things through.
Am I the only one somewhat disturbed by the fact that the district clearly glossed over the fact that the middle schoolers were trying to watch porn on school computers.
It's not that simple, there are many cases of people (usually college students) who end up temporarily going into the porn industry because its the only way they can afford their bills. It might not be an ideal position in the eyes of society, but in some cases, it can be the thing they need to get ahead in life. I'd imagine this is even further complicated by manipulating club owners (drugs, alcohol, blackmail).
On the issue at hand I'd agree with McGrrr, she shouldn't be barred from teaching, but its doubtful that she'll get a job now that her story is circulating far more quickly than her videos ever did.
It's not that simple, there are many cases of people (usually college students) who end up temporarily going into the porn industry because its the only way they can afford their bills. It might not be an ideal position in the eyes of society, but in some cases, it can be the thing they need to get ahead in life. I'd imagine this is even further complicated by manipulating club owners (drugs, alcohol, blackmail).
On the issue at hand I'd agree with McGrrr, she shouldn't be barred from teaching, but its doubtful that she'll get a job now that her story is circulating far more quickly than her videos ever did.
I was actually wondering this too, but apparently nobody gives two fucks about teens and what they do now a days. On another note, macle raises a good point imo. They are basically encouraging her to do porn again because he how is she supposed to get a job now if this was made a big deal about.
I don't think anyone who does porn should be barred from teaching or really any job once already hired. But the fact that she let it become known in her school it's unfortunate but at that point there is reason to let her go. Especially if it was becoming such a problem, with middle schoolers yelling out BALL GOBBLER at her. While I would be able to learn a subject from anyone regardless of past or present actions / attributes, I would not respect her. She would be an object of lust alone, and not someone I could ever see as intelligent / self-respecting no matter how much knowledge in any one subject. I think many of her classmates probably felt the same way.
And chiming in to say that it should never be forgotten / completely forgiven. Truthfully once a whore, always a whore. A woman who has been with many men will never be loved / accepted by someone their equal. A woman could be near perfect for you but if they have been with too many men, she is far less valuble and most men would prefer to claim their parter / love someone that not everyone has already had. Investing so much time / love in something that will cum to you or any man so easily anyways isn't really logical. Someone lesser than them would still value them in spite of this because the whore that they could never have now would love someone like them.
And chiming in to say that it should never be forgotten / completely forgiven. Truthfully once a whore, always a whore. A woman who has been with many men will never be loved / accepted by someone their equal. A woman could be near perfect for you but if they have been with too many men, she is far less valuble and most men would prefer to claim their parter / love someone that not everyone has already had. Investing so much time / love in something that will cum to you or any man so easily anyways isn't really logical. Someone lesser than them would still value them in spite of this because the whore that they could never have now would love someone like them.