Reserving Cobalion!
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Counter that Pokemon - Mk IV [FINAL MATCH - Team 1 won!]
- Thread starter ganj4lF
- Start date
Keldeo (Keldeo-R) @ Expert Belt
Trait: Justified
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
- Surf
- Icy Wind
- Hidden Power [Ghost]
- Secret Sword
Keldeo can switch into a Stone Edge / X-Scissor and then it can start to make pressure on Team 2. A Choice Specs one would be better to do more damages, but even if Team 2 knows Keldeo is Expert Belt I still prefer the versatility of this set. Surf + Secret Sword are the classic options which any Keldeo has, then I choiced Hidden Power Ghost to be not walled by Jellicent and Icy Wind to make pressure on both Lati Twins (if Team 2 decide to use any of them) and Zapdos. I decided to use Expert Belt Keldeo instead of any different choice because it doesn't allow setup too, for example a Keldeo locked into Sacret Sword allows Landorus-I to setup and that isn't good of course. Even Keldeo locked into Surf or Hydro Pump allows setup to things like Ferrothorn defensively speaking and Feraligatr offensively speaking. Team 1's goal is sweep with Landorus-I so if Keldeo weakens enough Zapdos (if Stealth Rock are up, Zapdos can't switch safety on Keldeo) Landorus can do it more easily. One of the biggest problem for this Keldeo is Special Defensive Celebi but Landorus-I has U-Turn exactly for it, so Celebi isn't a problem. Landorus-I + Keldeo are a very good offensive combination and this is just a good reason to pick Keldeo on Team 1 in my opinion.
Yeah, I think things have gotten a bit out of hand concerning reservations. I completely understand the reason behind it as sometimes you just don't have the time/computer access to post a really amazing set you thought of, in which case I have no problem with a reservation. However, please reserve only specific sets as claiming whole Pokemon is just top wide and is preventing other people from participating. Remember, the goal of this project isn't to have your sets voted in so being the one to propose all the right ones isn't important.
Just FYI, I don't plan to use the number of picked sets anymore to decide who will battle at the end of the project, so don't worry about that. We will select the battlers among the users that contribute more to the project, so both set posting and discussing others' sets (obviousy saying reasonable things...) will increase your likelihood to be picked. In this perspective, reservations become quite pointless since even if someone else post your exact same set (or something so similar that's not worth slating both) you can just post your support and your reasoning to back it up, also arguing why the voters should prefer that set over the other submissions. So, for the aforementioned reasons, please try to keep reservations to a minimum or avoid them completely.
My apologies for making a vague reservation, my computer recently died out on me and using my phone is pretty tedious so I can only submit sets when I'm at school or the library. I should have at least said SpD Amoonguss. Now that I am done explaining, lets get down to business:
Amoonguss@Black Sludge
EV's: 252 HP/244 SpD/12 SpA
Trait: Regenerator
Calm Nature
-Spore
-Giga Drain
-Toxic
-HP Fire
So instead of going on the offensive, I have decided to complete the Regenerator core of AmoongBro. Since Slowbro is physically defensive, I have made the mushroom specially defensive. Regenerator is one half of the purpose of choosing Guss because this way he can recover health simply by switching out. The EV's are meant to give it the best chance to wall threats and put a dent into other things. It guarentees 2HKO's on bulky Scizor and specially defensive Forretress. Spore is super obvious since it is basically an insta-kill. Giga Drain is there to replenish health while on the battlefield. I included Toxic so that walls cannot simply come in on Amoongus thinking that they can lay down their hazards. HP Fire is being used over HP Ice because Skarmory would be able to shit all over this thing without it. I know Bro can come in with Flamethrower to torch it since the specially defensive version still gets 2HKO'd. Skarm wouldn't be able to use Brave Bird since that will put it in 2HKO range if it switched in. Also, other walls weak to fire wouldn't be able to switch in so freely. I really wanted to include Clear Smog instead of either HP Fire or Toxic, but I find it a little gimmicky and would lead to Team 2 not choosing a boosting sweeper, thus making Clear Smog useless. However, Clear Smog would be indirectly doing it's job assuring that the other team can't boost (or force them to choose SD Luke or Scizor). For the pokemon already chosen, Terrakion's Stone Edge will hurt, but that's about it. It'll get some of its health back by switching out if it chooses to stay in anyway. Even Heat Wave from Zapdos doesn't bother this shroom.
For the things I am worried about that can get by Guss are Alakazam and....I guess Taunt users but those can be dealt with pretty easily. Maybe Specs Latios since it can OHKO it with Psyshock but can tank a Draco Meteor pretty damn well plus any Ice Shard user will murk it.
All in all, I think Ammongus is a great choice, but I would like feedback on whether I should include Clear Smog instead of either Toxic or HP Fire. I also figured since Slowbro can burn and paralyze foes, Amoongus can toxic and sleep foes, thus the reason why I am also not using Stun Spore.
Amoonguss@Black Sludge
EV's: 252 HP/244 SpD/12 SpA
Trait: Regenerator
Calm Nature
-Spore
-Giga Drain
-Toxic
-HP Fire
So instead of going on the offensive, I have decided to complete the Regenerator core of AmoongBro. Since Slowbro is physically defensive, I have made the mushroom specially defensive. Regenerator is one half of the purpose of choosing Guss because this way he can recover health simply by switching out. The EV's are meant to give it the best chance to wall threats and put a dent into other things. It guarentees 2HKO's on bulky Scizor and specially defensive Forretress. Spore is super obvious since it is basically an insta-kill. Giga Drain is there to replenish health while on the battlefield. I included Toxic so that walls cannot simply come in on Amoongus thinking that they can lay down their hazards. HP Fire is being used over HP Ice because Skarmory would be able to shit all over this thing without it. I know Bro can come in with Flamethrower to torch it since the specially defensive version still gets 2HKO'd. Skarm wouldn't be able to use Brave Bird since that will put it in 2HKO range if it switched in. Also, other walls weak to fire wouldn't be able to switch in so freely. I really wanted to include Clear Smog instead of either HP Fire or Toxic, but I find it a little gimmicky and would lead to Team 2 not choosing a boosting sweeper, thus making Clear Smog useless. However, Clear Smog would be indirectly doing it's job assuring that the other team can't boost (or force them to choose SD Luke or Scizor). For the pokemon already chosen, Terrakion's Stone Edge will hurt, but that's about it. It'll get some of its health back by switching out if it chooses to stay in anyway. Even Heat Wave from Zapdos doesn't bother this shroom.
For the things I am worried about that can get by Guss are Alakazam and....I guess Taunt users but those can be dealt with pretty easily. Maybe Specs Latios since it can OHKO it with Psyshock but can tank a Draco Meteor pretty damn well plus any Ice Shard user will murk it.
All in all, I think Ammongus is a great choice, but I would like feedback on whether I should include Clear Smog instead of either Toxic or HP Fire. I also figured since Slowbro can burn and paralyze foes, Amoongus can toxic and sleep foes, thus the reason why I am also not using Stun Spore.
Garchomp and Jirachi are the best choices at this point. Garchomp has the advantage of being able to switch relatively easy into Zapdos, but something that is a bit troubling is that Stone Edge 3HKOes Garchomp, meaning that Garchomp will be able to switch into Terrakion only once. Cobalion works too, but is somewhat weak and cannot really threaten Zapdos. This leaves Jirachi as the only reliable choice and the only Jirachi set that can take on both Terrakion and Zapdos more than once is this one:
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 152 SDef / 20 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- U-turn
- Body SlamThunder Wave
- Iron Head
The Def EVs allow Jirachi to always avoid the 3HKO from Terrakion's X-Scissor and thus be able to heal with Wish reliably (and avoid the 3HKO from Stone Edge too). U-turn is mandatory for Magnezone and any other trapper that the opposing team can employ, as well as for momentum, which is very important on this project. Jirachi can also beat Zapdos one on one, paralyzing it with Thunder Wave and leaving it as easy pray for Landorus or whatever else Pokemon we decide to use. I chose Thunder Wave over Body Slam as the 100% chance to paralyze Zapdos is needed and without it Zapdos can 3HKO Jirachi with Heat Wave, if the first Body Slam doesn't paralyze. Furthermore, Jirachi and Slowbro have good defensive synergy as the first covers physical attacks and the latter special (giving to the team a solid switch-in to Lati@s, which we currently lack, and those two Pokemon murder the rest of the team), providing the team with checks against most offensive Pokemon, as well as spreading paralyze for Landorus to abuse (which greatly helps as Landorus lacks Rock Polish and isn't the fastest Pokemon around). Finally, Jirachi has good synergy with Landorus too, and can pass to it a Wish, making it even harder for the opponent to deal with.
I know that choosing a second defensive Pokemon is not the best decision, but i feel it is necessary to reliably deal with Terrakion. It's not as if Jirachi is easy to set-up on anyway, with U-turn and Thunder Wave both giving to the opponent something to think before bringing their check/counter in. I chose this set over any other Jirachi set (such as Wish + CM), because it is the only one that can reliably deal with Terrakion while also keeping momentum. If anybody feels that Body Slam is better than T-Wave (for Landorus, Garchomp, and Landorus-T mainly) tell me so i can change it.
Here is also the Garchomp set that i think fits the best if we don't go for Jirachi (i know that i can't nominate two Pokemon so i am just putting this for others to nominate):
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 8 Atk / 160 Spd / 4 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
The HP and Def EVs allow Garchomp to avoid the 3HKO from Terrakion's X-Scissor after SR, while the Naughty nature gives Garchomp just enough power to always OHKO Terrakion with Earthquake. 160 Speed EVs are used to outspeed Adamant Lucario and Timid Heatran, 4 SpA EVs to OHKO Choice Band Scizor with Fire Blast and the 8 EVs that remain go into Atk just to power up Garchomp's EQ a little bit. This set can easily switch into anything Terrakion has except for CC, which Slowbro easily takes, set up SR, and phaze Zapdos with D-Tail if it attempts to switch-in, putting it into Landorus's HP Ice 2HKO range even if SR is not up. Fire Blast is used to OHK0-2HKO the Steel-types of OU that have Spikes, as well as Scizor, and allows Garchomp to discourage every single spinner from coming in safely, making it easy to keep SR up. Dragon Tail shuffles anything that can check or counter Garchomp, and builds residual damage alongside with SR, making this set difficult to counter.
Jirachi @ Leftovers
Trait: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 152 SDef / 20 Spd
Careful Nature
- Wish
- U-turn
- Body Slam
- Iron Head
The Def EVs allow Jirachi to always avoid the 3HKO from Terrakion's X-Scissor and thus be able to heal with Wish reliably (and avoid the 3HKO from Stone Edge too). U-turn is mandatory for Magnezone and any other trapper that the opposing team can employ, as well as for momentum, which is very important on this project. Jirachi can also beat Zapdos one on one, paralyzing it with Thunder Wave and leaving it as easy pray for Landorus or whatever else Pokemon we decide to use. I chose Thunder Wave over Body Slam as the 100% chance to paralyze Zapdos is needed and without it Zapdos can 3HKO Jirachi with Heat Wave, if the first Body Slam doesn't paralyze. Furthermore, Jirachi and Slowbro have good defensive synergy as the first covers physical attacks and the latter special (giving to the team a solid switch-in to Lati@s, which we currently lack, and those two Pokemon murder the rest of the team), providing the team with checks against most offensive Pokemon, as well as spreading paralyze for Landorus to abuse (which greatly helps as Landorus lacks Rock Polish and isn't the fastest Pokemon around). Finally, Jirachi has good synergy with Landorus too, and can pass to it a Wish, making it even harder for the opponent to deal with.
I know that choosing a second defensive Pokemon is not the best decision, but i feel it is necessary to reliably deal with Terrakion. It's not as if Jirachi is easy to set-up on anyway, with U-turn and Thunder Wave both giving to the opponent something to think before bringing their check/counter in. I chose this set over any other Jirachi set (such as Wish + CM), because it is the only one that can reliably deal with Terrakion while also keeping momentum. If anybody feels that Body Slam is better than T-Wave (for Landorus, Garchomp, and Landorus-T mainly) tell me so i can change it.
Here is also the Garchomp set that i think fits the best if we don't go for Jirachi (i know that i can't nominate two Pokemon so i am just putting this for others to nominate):
Garchomp @ Leftovers
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 8 Atk / 160 Spd / 4 SAtk
Naughty Nature
- Earthquake
- Stealth Rock
- Dragon Tail
- Fire Blast
The HP and Def EVs allow Garchomp to avoid the 3HKO from Terrakion's X-Scissor after SR, while the Naughty nature gives Garchomp just enough power to always OHKO Terrakion with Earthquake. 160 Speed EVs are used to outspeed Adamant Lucario and Timid Heatran, 4 SpA EVs to OHKO Choice Band Scizor with Fire Blast and the 8 EVs that remain go into Atk just to power up Garchomp's EQ a little bit. This set can easily switch into anything Terrakion has except for CC, which Slowbro easily takes, set up SR, and phaze Zapdos with D-Tail if it attempts to switch-in, putting it into Landorus's HP Ice 2HKO range even if SR is not up. Fire Blast is used to OHK0-2HKO the Steel-types of OU that have Spikes, as well as Scizor, and allows Garchomp to discourage every single spinner from coming in safely, making it easy to keep SR up. Dragon Tail shuffles anything that can check or counter Garchomp, and builds residual damage alongside with SR, making this set difficult to counter.
Cool Garchomp set alexwolf, the one major problem I see with it though is that in order to as difficult to counter as we want it to be we'll need Spikes support somewhere. Dragon Tail just won't be hefty enough without it and puts more pressure on proper prediction. Although Spikes is never a bad thing to have on a team, asking for it before it's there kinda is. This'll put pressure on ourselves to provide Spikes later on down the road and the set won't be able to really capitalize on free turns unless they are there during the battle. Again, it's a cool set there's just this one drawback to keep in mind. (I nitpick this one because I personally feel Garchomp may be the strongest pick so knowing the pros and cons of the various sets may come in handy.)
Yeah you are right, Spikes support are needed to make this set truly difficult to deal with. However, i don't see any other way to deal with Zapdos without going on the offensive. Maybe Toxic, as no Steel-type and Tentacruel would want to switch into Garchomp (although then we would need a pretty good answer to Gengar)?
Well we need a Rock resist to make the Slowbro pick work as intended (we don't really need to worry about X-Scissor since we have Lando-I already). Slow fighting types like Conkeldurr and Lucario are fairly easy to counter pick since they need their priority and boosting moves over coverage sot that they can remain generally useful and break past walls. (sadly, depending on the coverage move there are some walls that still beat them. Good old Defensive SD Gliscor can beat Conkeldurr and we already went through the various checks/counters for Luke) Keldeo is a strong mon but it pushes a Jellicent pick which we want to avoid. Terrakion is admittedly an equally viable choice (STAB Stone Edge makes all the difference) if not more because the lack of shared weaknesses. (although it'll need a power item to break Skarm and a Lando-T counter pick can be annoying) There aren't many really offensive options in the steel type department which leaves it fairly open to being counter picked by things like Ferrothorn (which giving the other team a good excuse to add Spikes is bad). Garchomp is one of the few offensive Ground types that can actually break Skarm easily thanks to access to Fire Blast and the dual STABs are really good in general. The weakness to Starmie cleans is bothersome, though, since Team 2 is going to be looking for a spinner eventually. (Maybe a Yache set could work then? IDK)
Yeah, see that's what I was thinking. What about the standard YacheChomp?
Garchomp @ Yache Berry
Trait: Rough Skin
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
Jolly Nature
- Outrage
- Earthquake
- Fire Fang
- Swords Dance
With this set, we're slightly less weak to being picked off by Starmie or HP Ice Gengar. Yache Berry is a great way to discourage Team 2 from picking something that can clean up our team late game, and limits their choices for countering Chomp in general. They won't pick Starmie, Mamoswine, Scarf Thundurus, etc. since those threats don't actually counter this set. Outrage and Earthquake are obligatory STAB moves while Fire Fang allows us to hit Skarmory (Fire Fang over Fire Blast is to dissuade a SDef Skarmory pick), Ferrothorn and Forretress. Swords Dance is just the standard move for the fourth slot but Dragon Tail or Stealth Rock could go there I suppose. I just think this set keeps us from being countered too easily while also allows us to pick Garchomp, who does fit the team well at this point. What do you think?
Guys keep in mind that both Keldeo and Terrakion risk getting 2HKOed by Stone Edge, which is an even bigger problem when you consider that they speed tie with Terrakion.
Also i don't think we need to worry about Starmie yet, as there are plenty of slots to cover it (and we have already forced the opponent to use an electric move on it if it wants to get past Slowbro, meaning that it can only use one of Psyshock/Ice Beam, making it much more manageable).
Also i don't think we need to worry about Starmie yet, as there are plenty of slots to cover it (and we have already forced the opponent to use an electric move on it if it wants to get past Slowbro, meaning that it can only use one of Psyshock/Ice Beam, making it much more manageable).
Okay, so I fervently believe that Cobalion is Team 1's best choice:
Cobalion @ Expert Belt
Trait: Justified
EVs: 28 Atk / 228 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
Cobalion has several things going for it here--
- Resistances: Cobalion is a great partner for Slowbro and Landorus. It is 4x-resistant to both bug and rock moves, meaning that Terrakion cannot rely on them to try to break through Slowbro. Meanwhile, Landorus and Slowbro both resist it's Close Combat. To demonstrate its defense, just think that Terrakion's CB Stone Edge does a maximum of around 17% damage to it. On top of that, Cobalion takes minimal damage from Stealth Rock, and even resists and serves as a check to Quick Attack should Terrakion try to finish off a weakened Team 1 with priority. It serves as a steel and can tank even the strongest of dragon-moves due to its high physical defense, and then react accordingly with Hidden Power Ice (Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp) or Close Combat (Hydreigon, Kyurem, Kyurem-B). Even a max attack CB Outrage from Kyurem-B, one of the strongest attacks in the game, does a maximum of 57.58%. Meanwhile, it's own weaknesses--fire, fighting, and ground--are covered by Slowbro (fire, fighting) and Landorus (fighting, ground).
- Utility: Cobalion brings something to Team 1 early on--Stealth Rock. We have the opportunity to set rocks against a Team 2 that currently relies on Zapdos, a rock-weak Pokemon, to check our main sweeper, Landorus. While Cobalion cannot necessarily break through a full-health Zapdos, it can wear it down and out-speed it. Similarly, it can beat any Terrakion one-on-one not locked into Close Combat--and even in the event that it is, it speed ties and can OHKO with its own Close Combat.
Moreover, it brings Volt Switch into the mix, a strong component for countering and momentum. Along with Landorus and U-Turn, Cobalion and Volt Switch will allow Team 1 to preserve momentum and maximize its opportunities at a sweep. Additionally, many of Cobalion's typical checks--specifically those bulky Pokemon that aren't hit super-effectively by any of its three moves--don't appreciate Volt Switch, especially any bulky waters or flyers that come in to tank a Close Combat. Cobalion's speed ensures that it can Volt Switch out of most undesirable situations long before threatened, maximizing the synergy provided by Slowbro and Landorus.
Finally, Cobalion serves as a great pre-emptive response and deterrent against Tyranitar. With Slowbro, we've opened ourselves up to Pursuit and a hungry Tyranitar (or even Weavile). Cobalion shrugs off every single attack Tyranitar has (except for mixed) and can OHKO swiftly. Even should Tyranitar pack Fire Blast and a scarf or try to predict on the switch, Cobalion can and will still defeat it. It also serves as a great lead, in general.
- Breaking Walls: Cobalion isn't necessarily the strongest poke out there, but its coverage and ability to break through traditional cores is very impressive. I'll just reference the Smogon analysis here.
Hidden Power Ice vs. 252/0 Gliscor 100.28 - 119.2%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 200/0 Landorus-T 102.71 - 120.86%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 0/4 Dragonite (without Multiscale) 86.06 - 102.47%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 0/0- Salamence 114.5 - 134.74%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 4/0 Breloom 80.53 - 95.41%
Volt Switch vs. 56/0 Gyarados 82.02 - 97.39%
Volt Switch vs. 252/0 Skarmory 56.88 - 66.76%
Volt Switch vs. 0/4 Starmie 62.45 - 74.32%
Close Combat vs. 4/252 Blissey 88.65 - 104.9%
Close Combat vs. 4/0 Terrakion 100 - 117.9%
Close Combat vs. 0/0 Heatran 86.99 - 102.47%
Cobalion isn't going to sweep, but its synergy with the rest of the team, ability to Volt Switch time and time again, ability to tank dragon attacks, wall Terrakion, out-speed most tiers, and set up rocks is too much to pass up in one single Poke.
As an aside, if anybody would like to make a case for Thunder Wave, Taunt, X-Scissor (for Celebi and the Lati twins), or Stone Edge (for Zapdos and other flyers) over Stealth Rock or something else, feel free to do so.
Cobalion @ Expert Belt
Trait: Justified
EVs: 28 Atk / 228 SAtk / 252 Spd
Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
- Close Combat
- Hidden Power Ice
- Volt Switch
- Stealth Rock
Cobalion has several things going for it here--
- Resistances: Cobalion is a great partner for Slowbro and Landorus. It is 4x-resistant to both bug and rock moves, meaning that Terrakion cannot rely on them to try to break through Slowbro. Meanwhile, Landorus and Slowbro both resist it's Close Combat. To demonstrate its defense, just think that Terrakion's CB Stone Edge does a maximum of around 17% damage to it. On top of that, Cobalion takes minimal damage from Stealth Rock, and even resists and serves as a check to Quick Attack should Terrakion try to finish off a weakened Team 1 with priority. It serves as a steel and can tank even the strongest of dragon-moves due to its high physical defense, and then react accordingly with Hidden Power Ice (Salamence, Dragonite, Garchomp) or Close Combat (Hydreigon, Kyurem, Kyurem-B). Even a max attack CB Outrage from Kyurem-B, one of the strongest attacks in the game, does a maximum of 57.58%. Meanwhile, it's own weaknesses--fire, fighting, and ground--are covered by Slowbro (fire, fighting) and Landorus (fighting, ground).
- Utility: Cobalion brings something to Team 1 early on--Stealth Rock. We have the opportunity to set rocks against a Team 2 that currently relies on Zapdos, a rock-weak Pokemon, to check our main sweeper, Landorus. While Cobalion cannot necessarily break through a full-health Zapdos, it can wear it down and out-speed it. Similarly, it can beat any Terrakion one-on-one not locked into Close Combat--and even in the event that it is, it speed ties and can OHKO with its own Close Combat.
Moreover, it brings Volt Switch into the mix, a strong component for countering and momentum. Along with Landorus and U-Turn, Cobalion and Volt Switch will allow Team 1 to preserve momentum and maximize its opportunities at a sweep. Additionally, many of Cobalion's typical checks--specifically those bulky Pokemon that aren't hit super-effectively by any of its three moves--don't appreciate Volt Switch, especially any bulky waters or flyers that come in to tank a Close Combat. Cobalion's speed ensures that it can Volt Switch out of most undesirable situations long before threatened, maximizing the synergy provided by Slowbro and Landorus.
Finally, Cobalion serves as a great pre-emptive response and deterrent against Tyranitar. With Slowbro, we've opened ourselves up to Pursuit and a hungry Tyranitar (or even Weavile). Cobalion shrugs off every single attack Tyranitar has (except for mixed) and can OHKO swiftly. Even should Tyranitar pack Fire Blast and a scarf or try to predict on the switch, Cobalion can and will still defeat it. It also serves as a great lead, in general.
- Breaking Walls: Cobalion isn't necessarily the strongest poke out there, but its coverage and ability to break through traditional cores is very impressive. I'll just reference the Smogon analysis here.
Hidden Power Ice vs. 252/0 Gliscor 100.28 - 119.2%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 200/0 Landorus-T 102.71 - 120.86%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 0/4 Dragonite (without Multiscale) 86.06 - 102.47%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 0/0- Salamence 114.5 - 134.74%
Hidden Power Ice vs. 4/0 Breloom 80.53 - 95.41%
Volt Switch vs. 56/0 Gyarados 82.02 - 97.39%
Volt Switch vs. 252/0 Skarmory 56.88 - 66.76%
Volt Switch vs. 0/4 Starmie 62.45 - 74.32%
Close Combat vs. 4/252 Blissey 88.65 - 104.9%
Close Combat vs. 4/0 Terrakion 100 - 117.9%
Close Combat vs. 0/0 Heatran 86.99 - 102.47%
Cobalion isn't going to sweep, but its synergy with the rest of the team, ability to Volt Switch time and time again, ability to tank dragon attacks, wall Terrakion, out-speed most tiers, and set up rocks is too much to pass up in one single Poke.
As an aside, if anybody would like to make a case for Thunder Wave, Taunt, X-Scissor (for Celebi and the Lati twins), or Stone Edge (for Zapdos and other flyers) over Stealth Rock or something else, feel free to do so.
I really think team 1 should avoid such picks as Amoonguss and Cobalion. Either pick leaves the team very open to the Latias/Latios, which is more offensive pressure (and even defensive utility, especially in the case of Latias) that is hard for team 1 to deal with, especially since Pursuit users like Tyranitar, the most common solution to the Latis, are eaten up by Terrakion. I more willingly support things like SpDef Jirachi, which is just a generally solid pick and seems to leave our team less vulnerable to any one counterpick, or Garchomp/Conkeldurr, which still give us Lati problems but at least put on a good deal of offensive pressure.
Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Trait: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 112 Def / 156 SpD
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Slack Off
- Earthquake
- Toxic
- Ice Fang
Hippowdon was almost picked for the last round and with good reason. Titanic defenses allow it to wall both zapdos and terrakion, as long as it avoids switching in to close combat from the latter. Stealth rock is very good to have to wear down whatever team two chooses. However this set forgoes stealth rock because it is too easy for team 2 to pick a hard counter to hazards, like adding on a xatu or starmie. Toxic is unusual on hippowdon, but it prevents counters (jellicent, rotom-w, latios, etc.) from actually fully walling him. Earthquake hits hard off a powerful attack stat and gets good coverage with ice fang and toxic. Counters to this set exist (skarmory, ferrothorn) but are not very widespread. This does open up a double grass and ice weakness, but magnezone could be a great next pick to wall magnezone and trap those steel spikers. Hippowdon is also like the sturdiest rock resist in OU, so yeah. The given EV spread prevent a 3HKO from uninvested zapdos HP ice.
We shouldn't just leave threats (zapdos) uncountered..?
That's the problem though, there are pretty much no offensive Pokemon that are difficult to wall and can switch into Terrakion's Stone Edge more than once:
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 133-157 (41.04 - 48.45%) -- 10.16% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 133-157 (41.04 - 48.45%) -- 10.16% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Well, should we desire offense--who's up for an Adamant 252 Atk / 252 Def Machamp, hm? Falcon PAWNCH.
:p
EDIT: More importantly, though, we could always go with a more offensive Cobalion--say, a Swords Dance set with Close Combat, Stone Edge, and X-Scissor. Can still easily switch into Stone Edge and apply pressure, and can break through Lati on the switch. But, really, I think Cobalion's all-around utility is pretty monstrous.
:p
EDIT: More importantly, though, we could always go with a more offensive Cobalion--say, a Swords Dance set with Close Combat, Stone Edge, and X-Scissor. Can still easily switch into Stone Edge and apply pressure, and can break through Lati on the switch. But, really, I think Cobalion's all-around utility is pretty monstrous.
Ght this
I don't see how we absolutely need an offensive threat right this instant. I'm also having trouble seeing how we would even be Lati@s weak at this very moment. We have slowbro that can take any hit from it and paralyze it for the game and if we choose Amoonguss, we can put it to sleep after Bro takes a DM and recovers a third of its health. This is why AmoomgBro is such an efficient core; it can take powerful hits, switch out, and recover its health.
BTW, i like the cobalion and jirachi suggestions too. I do not see how Coballion is a defensive pick when the stat spread has no investment into either defense or HP. Its just a bulky offensive mon that retains momentum by using Volt Switch.
I don't see how we absolutely need an offensive threat right this instant. I'm also having trouble seeing how we would even be Lati@s weak at this very moment. We have slowbro that can take any hit from it and paralyze it for the game and if we choose Amoonguss, we can put it to sleep after Bro takes a DM and recovers a third of its health. This is why AmoomgBro is such an efficient core; it can take powerful hits, switch out, and recover its health.
BTW, i like the cobalion and jirachi suggestions too. I do not see how Coballion is a defensive pick when the stat spread has no investment into either defense or HP. Its just a bulky offensive mon that retains momentum by using Volt Switch.
Oh my gosh, I think I just found a way to tack on one of my favorite mons.
Swampert (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Hammer Arm
What does this set do? A monster in DPP (and a personal favorite) this poor fellow has dropped out of the OU spotlight with the rise of the mighty Ferrothorn, the introduction of team preview and the general power creep. However, this is the CtP which is a whole different sort of metagame. The current lineup calls for Swampert so Swampert shall answer and provide the team with a bulky Rock resist that can hit back HARD. Many have forgotten the 110 base attack stat of the mighty mudfish which, when combined with his excellent STABs and coverage moves, allows him to muscle past even the sturdiest of walls. Choice Band gives him that power without him having to sacrifice any precious coverage moves. Waterfall and Earthquake are the STABs that punch hard and are spammable (at least Waterfall is).Stone Edge gives Pert that EdgeQuake coverage that keeps flying mons like Gyarados and Dnite at bay. Ice Punch allows Swampert to swipe grass types like Celebi out of the way (fuk 420). Hammer Arm lets Swampert squash the annoying Ferrothorn and muscle past Skarmory by denying him the opportunity to ever Roost.
How can this set help the team? Not only does it give us a sturdy rock resist that can mow down walls but Swampert also counters Zapdos without breaking a sweat (heck it stops Zapdos from squirming away with Volt Switch). This means that Swampert will be sure to be seeing play as it can come in on more than just a Choice locked Stone Edge.
What can the other team do in response to this set? Ugh, Tangrowth, ugh. There isn't really much else worth noting but this one counts sine it has Regen and a solid special attack stat. Faster mons that can tank at least one hit like Rotom-W can also do the trick but they still won't like the chunk Swampert bites out of them. Gyarados can come in on Swampert easily enough do the lack of Stone Edge and start doing what Gyarados does.
What potential additions can be made to deal with these responses? Tangrowth will be annoying but it'll still have some hard counters depending on the coverage moves. Without HP Fire Scizor won't mind switching in much and can bite back with a STAB U-Turn while scouting a retreat. Without HP Ice, things like Dragonite can come in and setup or fling out all those strong attacks that dragons have. Without EQ, Heatran laughs at the wad of weeds and roasts it with a mighty fire STAB. Gyarados is more or less already covered by Slowbro however something like Rotom-W can be used in case of Substitute variants.
Swampert (M) @ Choice Band
Trait: Torrent
EVs: 248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Atk
Adamant Nature
- Waterfall
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Hammer Arm
What does this set do? A monster in DPP (and a personal favorite) this poor fellow has dropped out of the OU spotlight with the rise of the mighty Ferrothorn, the introduction of team preview and the general power creep. However, this is the CtP which is a whole different sort of metagame. The current lineup calls for Swampert so Swampert shall answer and provide the team with a bulky Rock resist that can hit back HARD. Many have forgotten the 110 base attack stat of the mighty mudfish which, when combined with his excellent STABs and coverage moves, allows him to muscle past even the sturdiest of walls. Choice Band gives him that power without him having to sacrifice any precious coverage moves. Waterfall and Earthquake are the STABs that punch hard and are spammable (at least Waterfall is).
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Swampert: 132-156 (32.75 - 38.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Swampert: 141-166 (34.98 - 41.19%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Swampert: 316-373 (78.41 - 92.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Not something that should happen but nice to have, anyways)
0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 67-79 (16.62 - 19.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 274-324 (71.35 - 84.37%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 220-259 (57.29 - 67.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 214-254 (60.79 - 72.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 160-190 (45.45 - 53.97%) -- 53.13% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Hammer Arm vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 91-108 (27.82 - 33.02%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(Remember, Skarm can't Roost otherwise this will happen)
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Hammer Arm vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 182-216 (55.65 - 66.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 240-284 (59.4 - 70.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion X-Scissor vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Swampert: 141-166 (34.98 - 41.19%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Swampert: 316-373 (78.41 - 92.55%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
(Not something that should happen but nice to have, anyways)
0 SpA Zapdos Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Swampert: 67-79 (16.62 - 19.6%) -- possible 5HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 274-324 (71.35 - 84.37%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Waterfall vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zapdos: 220-259 (57.29 - 67.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 214-254 (60.79 - 72.15%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 88+ Def Ferrothorn: 160-190 (45.45 - 53.97%) -- 53.13% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Hammer Arm vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 91-108 (27.82 - 33.02%) -- 0.2% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
(Remember, Skarm can't Roost otherwise this will happen)
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Hammer Arm vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 182-216 (55.65 - 66.05%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Swampert Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi: 240-284 (59.4 - 70.29%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
How can this set help the team? Not only does it give us a sturdy rock resist that can mow down walls but Swampert also counters Zapdos without breaking a sweat (heck it stops Zapdos from squirming away with Volt Switch). This means that Swampert will be sure to be seeing play as it can come in on more than just a Choice locked Stone Edge.
What can the other team do in response to this set? Ugh, Tangrowth, ugh. There isn't really much else worth noting but this one counts sine it has Regen and a solid special attack stat. Faster mons that can tank at least one hit like Rotom-W can also do the trick but they still won't like the chunk Swampert bites out of them. Gyarados can come in on Swampert easily enough do the lack of Stone Edge and start doing what Gyarados does.
What potential additions can be made to deal with these responses? Tangrowth will be annoying but it'll still have some hard counters depending on the coverage moves. Without HP Fire Scizor won't mind switching in much and can bite back with a STAB U-Turn while scouting a retreat. Without HP Ice, things like Dragonite can come in and setup or fling out all those strong attacks that dragons have. Without EQ, Heatran laughs at the wad of weeds and roasts it with a mighty fire STAB. Gyarados is more or less already covered by Slowbro however something like Rotom-W can be used in case of Substitute variants.
Nidoqueen @ Black Sludge
Ability~Sheer Force
EVs: 252 HP/200Def/56 Spa
Bold Nature
~Stealth Rock
~Earth Power
~Ice Beam
~Thunderbolt/Thunder
Say hello to a great offensive supporter. The Queen of RU has been exiled to UU, but is ready to fight in the war in OU. Stealth Rock is quite frankly the best move ever. It gives us hazards, and a nice check to Zapdos. Earth Power, even without all that investment, will hit hard. Terrakion can't afford to stay in to the Queen, giving us either heavy damage on a Team two pokemon, or a free turn for Rocks. It also forces Team 2 to start hitting on the Special side, which is much easier to wall, sans Landorus I. Ice Beam is great, as it gives us a good hit on Zapdos and can leave a dent in anything weak to it. Thunder/bolt rounds out the coverage, hitting every pokemon in OU for neutral damage. If we use a rain team, Thunder is prefered, but if not, Thunderbolt shall prevail. The secondary Terrakion counter tames the bull and most of its physical friends to boot, allowing us to diversify our picks and toy with the opposing teams picks...
Okay, I'm here to give my opinion about some sets already posted.
Conkeldurr:
It looks good. Conkeldurr can easily take a Stone Edge and proceed to set-up, instantly threatening opposing team. The use of Guts really helps, not allowing Team 2 to choose a status inducer to stop this boy, however; the problem that I see is a Latios pick. It can come, take a Mach Punch and fire off a Life Orb Draco Meteor, taking giving immediate advantage to Team 2. (nothing can take it)
Lucario:
I'm not convinced of it at all. Without Swords Dance, Lucario is weak as hell and relays on full prediction to deal damage to the incoming Pokemon (in an imaginary switch-out from Terrakion). Also, a Jellicent pick for Team 2 could work, walling Luke, taunting Slowbro and dealing pretty well with Landorus.
Keldeo:
I like the pick of Keldeo, but, as I explained before, it eases a Jellicent pick.
Amoonguss:
I think that the best we can do at this moment is choosing an offensive Pokemon. I know that Amoonguss + Slowbro is a cool core, but, with this, we give the other team the opportunity to keep picking offensive stuff and obligating us to go defensive. We don't want that because, eventually, the team will be only trying to survive instead of putting pressure against Team 2.
Hippowdon:
How does Hippowdon was almost picked last time? It only got 1 vote (lol, less than Alakazam). Again, we should go for something more offensive instead of choosing thinks that gives the other team the complete control of the situation.
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I don't have so much time right now, so gonna post again tomorrow (if not some short posts today)
Conkeldurr:
It looks good. Conkeldurr can easily take a Stone Edge and proceed to set-up, instantly threatening opposing team. The use of Guts really helps, not allowing Team 2 to choose a status inducer to stop this boy, however; the problem that I see is a Latios pick. It can come, take a Mach Punch and fire off a Life Orb Draco Meteor, taking giving immediate advantage to Team 2. (nothing can take it)
- 252SpAtk Life Orb Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor vs 120HP/136SpDef Conkeldurr (Neutral): 92% - 108% (352 - 414 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 53% chance to OHKO.
- 252SpAtk Life Orb Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor vs 252HP/0SpDef Slowbro (Neutral): 90% - 107% (358 - 423 HP). Guaranteed 2HKO. 44% chance to OHKO.
- 252SpAtk Life Orb Latios (Neutral) Draco Meteor vs 4HP/0SpDef Landorus (-SpDef): 124% - 146% (397 - 469 HP). Guaranteed OHKO.
Lucario:
I'm not convinced of it at all. Without Swords Dance, Lucario is weak as hell and relays on full prediction to deal damage to the incoming Pokemon (in an imaginary switch-out from Terrakion). Also, a Jellicent pick for Team 2 could work, walling Luke, taunting Slowbro and dealing pretty well with Landorus.
Keldeo:
I like the pick of Keldeo, but, as I explained before, it eases a Jellicent pick.
- 252SpAtk Expert Belt Keldeo (Neutral) Hidden Power (Ghost) vs 252HP/252SpDef Leftovers Water Absorb Jellicent (+SpDef): 31% - 37% (127 - 151 HP). Guaranteed 4HKO.
Amoonguss:
I think that the best we can do at this moment is choosing an offensive Pokemon. I know that Amoonguss + Slowbro is a cool core, but, with this, we give the other team the opportunity to keep picking offensive stuff and obligating us to go defensive. We don't want that because, eventually, the team will be only trying to survive instead of putting pressure against Team 2.
Hippowdon:
How does Hippowdon was almost picked last time? It only got 1 vote (lol, less than Alakazam). Again, we should go for something more offensive instead of choosing thinks that gives the other team the complete control of the situation.
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I don't have so much time right now, so gonna post again tomorrow (if not some short posts today)
This isn't accurate, as calculations show:
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 359-422 (91.34 - 107.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 412-486 (104.83 - 123.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 320-376 (81.42 - 95.67%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 412-486 (104.83 - 123.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latias Draco Meteor vs. 248 HP / 0 SpD Slowbro: 320-376 (81.42 - 95.67%) -- 56.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
@Melee Mewtwo: Stone Edge looks better than Ice Punch on Swampert. Fully defensive Tangrowth doesn't care about Ice Punch, as it deals about as much as Regenerator heals. More offensive variants get 2HKOed, but can still scout and switch to an Ice resist. EDIT: Thinking about it more, Ice Punch does have other perks, for instance dissuading a Latios pick as Latios takes min 95% from it. It could be a good option.
@MX42: Nidoqueen is an interesting suggestion and solid Terrakion switch-in, but it doesn't hit very hard, especially with the EVs you've given. It needs special attack investment and probably a life orb to do well offensively, but then its defensive merit is poor. Honestly, Nidoqueen seems fairly outclassed even just by Golurk, no matter how you EV it.
In general, suggestions like Nidoqueen and Hippowdon seem to ignore that all we want is a decently bulky rock resist, and outside of that are happy with going more offensive. Something like Hippowdon is very redundant with Slowbro.
Wow, Terrakion has really put the pressure on team 1 - real shame about not being able to pick Landorus-T, he'd be perfect :(
Anyway, I was reading through the comments, and about what kind of poke we need to fill the third slot in team one. Basically, they need to put offensive pressure on team 1, and ideally be able to tank a couple of Terrakion's Stone Edges. Honestly, this is a pretty tall order, though I think the Jirachi and Garchomp nominations were on target (I'm not convinced about the exact set yet though). All the same, I was looking through the tier lists for inspiration, and I did find one small gem:
Yeah, I almost forgot about Metagross too. Still, if we used a set like the Stealth Rock lead listed on site:
Metagross @Leftovers
Clear Body
Adamant - 252 HP/ 96 Atk/ 160 Sp. Def
-Stealth Rock
-Meteor Mash
-Pursuit
-Earthquake
then we have a solid switch in to Terrak's Stone Edge, an SR user, and some decent offensive pressure. Just for reference:
Stone Edge does: 26.64-31.31%, avoiding the 3HKO after SR, with lefties.
I just lifted this from the analysis, so if anyone is interested enough in this post I'm open to moveset/ EV changes. For the moment though, Meta makes a good Lati@s check, resisting DM and being able to pursuit-trap, while also threatening the OHKO on Terrak with Meteor Mash. With the special bulk investment, you can even bash around Celebi/ Gengar with Pursuit too, which is nice. Earthquake nails Heatran and Jirachi switch ins as well. However, Meta can't do much v. Zapdos unfortunately, unless we carry Ice Punch over something. Which actually isn't a terrible idea.
So... yeah.
Anyway, I was reading through the comments, and about what kind of poke we need to fill the third slot in team one. Basically, they need to put offensive pressure on team 1, and ideally be able to tank a couple of Terrakion's Stone Edges. Honestly, this is a pretty tall order, though I think the Jirachi and Garchomp nominations were on target (I'm not convinced about the exact set yet though). All the same, I was looking through the tier lists for inspiration, and I did find one small gem:
Yeah, I almost forgot about Metagross too. Still, if we used a set like the Stealth Rock lead listed on site:
Metagross @Leftovers
Clear Body
Adamant - 252 HP/ 96 Atk/ 160 Sp. Def
-Stealth Rock
-Meteor Mash
-Pursuit
-Earthquake
then we have a solid switch in to Terrak's Stone Edge, an SR user, and some decent offensive pressure. Just for reference:
Stone Edge does: 26.64-31.31%, avoiding the 3HKO after SR, with lefties.
I just lifted this from the analysis, so if anyone is interested enough in this post I'm open to moveset/ EV changes. For the moment though, Meta makes a good Lati@s check, resisting DM and being able to pursuit-trap, while also threatening the OHKO on Terrak with Meteor Mash. With the special bulk investment, you can even bash around Celebi/ Gengar with Pursuit too, which is nice. Earthquake nails Heatran and Jirachi switch ins as well. However, Meta can't do much v. Zapdos unfortunately, unless we carry Ice Punch over something. Which actually isn't a terrible idea.
So... yeah.
Wow, Terrakion has really put the pressure on team 1 - real shame about not being able to pick Landorus-T, he'd be perfect :(
Anyway, I was reading through the comments, and about what kind of poke we need to fill the third slot in team one. Basically, they need to put offensive pressure on team 1, and ideally be able to tank a couple of Terrakion's Stone Edges. Honestly, this is a pretty tall order, though I think the Jirachi and Garchomp nominations were on target (I'm not convinced about the exact set yet though). All the same, I was looking through the tier lists for inspiration, and I did find one small gem:
Yeah, I almost forgot about Metagross too. Still, if we used a set like the Stealth Rock lead listed on site:
Metagross @Leftovers
Clear Body
Adamant - 252 HP/ 96 Atk/ 160 Sp. Def
-Stealth Rock
-Meteor Mash
-Pursuit
-Earthquake
then we have a solid switch in to Terrak's Stone Edge, an SR user, and some decent offensive pressure. Just for reference:
Stone Edge does: 26.64-31.31%, avoiding the 3HKO after SR, with lefties.
I just lifted this from the analysis, so if anyone is interested enough in this post I'm open to moveset/ EV changes. For the moment though, Meta makes a good Lati@s check, resisting DM and being able to pursuit-trap, while also threatening the OHKO on Terrak with Meteor Mash. With the special bulk investment, you can even bash around Celebi/ Gengar with Pursuit too, which is nice. Earthquake nails Heatran and Jirachi switch ins as well. However, Meta can't do much v. Zapdos unfortunately, unless we carry Ice Punch over something. Which actually isn't a terrible idea.
So... yeah.
Even with Ice Punch, Metagross can't do too much damage to Zapdos, and it can just Roost off the damage and cut the damage output at the same time. It also gets comfortably 2HKO'd by Heat Wave, unfortunately. It's a good pick, I like what it does for the team, but it's just so slow. It's bulky, but its STAB just isn't very powerful when you consider all of the types that resist Steel. That said, it still puts pressure on Team 2 to pick from that list of those that don't care about Meteor Mash, so there is that. I also like that it can tank the Lati twins. Unfortunately, with using Leftovers and the given EVs in attack, Pursuit isn't really going to hurt much if they stay in.