Gen 5 The OU Viability Ranking thread

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Yeah Terrakion in A+ rank seems fitting. Sort of like how the metagame is over prepared for Heracross in UU, OU is extremely well prepared for most variants of Terrakion. Latias, Celebi, Jellicent, and even Jirachi have no problem walling specific versions of Terrakion, with minimal effort. Terrakion is still an amazing Pokemon, but it's no where near as scary as it used to be. Keldeo is the new Terrakion now. Terrakion for A+.
 
Agreed. Keldeo's ridiculous synergy with both Tyranitar and Politoed makes it superior to 'Kion, and Breloom is arguably more useful at the moment as well. I just haven't seen many Terrakion around recently. Landorus-T is definitely a factor, I think Scizor re-taking it's position from Genesect was the primary cause though.
 
I don't know about putting Terrakion in A+. I am going to have to disagree with that.
The only true counters to Terrakion that are legitimate in the OU tier are Gliscor and Slowbro since other pokemon cannot switch in multiple times. Banded Terrakion 3HKOs Landorus-T and the only recovery it has is leftovers.

Since these counters are very rare in the OU tier, all you have to do in order for Terrakion to be a huge threat without much risk is 1) have counters to Terrakion's checks and 2) Keep Terrakion alive. It's not that hard to do.

I still believe Terrakion is a massive threat in today's OU metagame, I believe it to be fine as it is at the S rank.
 
Gary2346 said:
Latias, Celebi, Jellicent, and even Jirachi have no problem walling specific versions of Terrakion, with minimal effort.
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A terrakion with air balloon 2HKO standard Jirachi and Latias, while celebi take around 45% and Jelli around 40 (the utility counter one, the specially defensive is 2HKO). This is not what I would call "minimal effort". Add a band, a life orb, a rock gem or worst a SD boost (which is not that hard to obtain), and they are all raped. They are just (a bit shaky) checks.
 
While I agree that Terrakion should be A-Rank, I disagree with the user that said that it only really has synergy on a sand team. I've actually used Terrakion much more times on rain and sun, and Keldeo is a better option for sand teams.

The fact that Terrakion gets amazing coverage and powerful attacks does not matter as the OU tier is perfectly prepared to deal with it. Nowadays, preparing for powerful Hydro Pumps from the likes of Keldeo is much more important. I never had problems with Terrakion when preparing teams, but I had problems with Keldeo some time ago. A+ Rank is sufficient for him; he isn't even as likely to be supected as Keldeo, Landorus, and rain.
 
Gary2346 said:
Yeah Terrakion in A+ rank seems fitting. Sort of like how the metagame is over prepared for Heracross in UU, OU is extremely well prepared for most variants of Terrakion. Latias, Celebi, Jellicent, and even Jirachi have no problem walling specific versions of Terrakion, with minimal effort. Terrakion is still an amazing Pokemon, but it's no where near as scary as it used to be. Keldeo is the new Terrakion now. Terrakion for A+.
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I'm sorry but no, none of those pokemon are walling SD Terrakion, none of those pokemon are switching into CB Terrakion.
 
a monster like terrakion deserves S rank imo. two of the best STABS, monstrous attack and great speed. its right where it belongs.
 
Wizarus said:
I'm sorry but no, none of those pokemon are walling SD Terrakion, none of those pokemon are switching into CB Terrakion.
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Latias, Celebi, Jellicent, and even Jirachi have no problem walling specific versions of Terrakion

Read next time before calling me out okay? Not much in OU can really switch into CB Terrakion directly anyway, as Stone Edge can usually decimate switch-ins to Close Combat (like Jellicent and Celebi) and Close Combat can decimate Stone Edge switch-ins like Jirachi. It's all about prediction. I still don't think that the strength of the CB and SD sets should keep it S-rank though.
 
Taking between 40 and 50% is not having "no problem walling".
It's "You only check if you are a bit weakened, or even if stealth rocks are up, and if you are healthy enough you spam recovery move hoping for a miss and fearing a crit.".

And Lead Terra and Scarf Terra don't particularly mind if they get "walled", because it's not their job.

My argumentation is absolutely not a "why terrakion should stay S rank". I don't really know if it should or not, but if not, it would be mainly because of his priority weakness. It's still one of the most fearsome OU sweeper, with like 3 OU worthy counters, and goddish stabs. And a very good Stealth Rocker too.
 
Okay, I get the point. What I said seemed over exaggerated, but many of you are taking it the wrong way. I guess next time I need to be extremely specific lest I get picked apart. Anyways, moving on. Although I made a post about moving Conkeldurr to B- Rank, a few seemed to have missed it and nominated it themselves, so I might as well join the support. Conkeldurr is easily a B - Rank Pokemon. Extremely underrated, very powerful, Mach Punch, three outstanding abilities, awesome coverage, and great physical bulk offset its terrible speed.
 
@Bulgrom
By that Logic, Keldeo should be Uber. You've missed the entire point of Gary2346's justification. (Not to mention being Pedantic just blows)

Terrakion is still the second most hardest pokemon to switch into this metagame. But just coverage alone is no cause to keep it S-Rank anymore (Ask Haxorus). Teams have a much easier time dealing with it nowadays.
I really don't get this argument of "OMG STABZZ 2HKO everything. S-Rank."
 
Gary2346 said:
Okay, I get the point. What I said seemed over exaggerated, but many of you are taking it the wrong way. I guess next time I need to be extremely specific lest I get picked apart. Anyways, moving on. Although I made a post about moving Conkeldurr to B- Rank, a few seemed to have missed it and nominated it themselves, so I might as well join the support. Conkeldurr is easily a B - Rank Pokemon. Extremely underrated, very powerful, Mach Punch, three outstanding abilities, awesome coverage, and great physical bulk offset its terrible speed.
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Throwing my support behind B-Rank for Conkeldurr. It's a lot better than people give it credit for because a lot of people use it poorly. Many people think that it's Bulk Up sets and Flame Orb Guts sets are the only ones that should be used. I say no way. The Sheer Force set is extremely underrated, and can break holes in lots of teams that are unprepared for it. The Sub Focus Punch set also intrigues me, but it seems like that might be seriously outclassed by Breloom. Conkeldurr is bulkier and slightly more powerful, but I doubt that's worth trading Poison Heal for...but I digress. The Sheer Force set can beat things that could normally give Conkeldurr a hard time, like Skarmory, Jellicent, Tentacruel, Landorus-T, and Gliscor. It also still hits decently hard with STAB Drain Punch and STAB Mach Punch, giving it a way to heal itself as well a deal out extra damage before it goes down/revenge killing certain threats like Lucario and Terrakion. Definitely a B-Rank Pokémon.
 
I think Terrakion deserves S rank still, its one of the most dangerous Pokemon in the metagame, being checked by Breloom and Scizor is hardly enough to bring it down, that's just my opinion though as a stall player, I may be a bit biased. :3
 
I agree with moving Terrakion down to A rank. It preforms very well on sand teams but that's it, Keldeo works better on rain and Breloom in rain or Sun. Also I don't think this has been suggested yet (But maybe it has). Breloom for S rank. Between being the fastest user of Spore, having (With technician) a 180.9 power bullet seed, access to great moves in Mach Punch and Low Sweep, being able to check a great part of the OU metagame and beat many rain teams.
 
Gary2346 said:
Latias, Celebi, Jellicent, and even Jirachi have no problem walling specific versions of Terrakion

Read next time before calling me out okay? Not much in OU can really switch into CB Terrakion directly anyway, as Stone Edge can usually decimate switch-ins to Close Combat (like Jellicent and Celebi) and Close Combat can decimate Stone Edge switch-ins like Jirachi. It's all about prediction. I still don't think that the strength of the CB and SD sets should keep it S-rank though.
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They aren't walling any version except Choice Scarf, and walling Choice Scarfed pokemon isn't much of an accomplishment.
 
Wizarus said:
They aren't walling any version except Choice Scarf, and walling Choice Scarfed pokemon isn't much of an accomplishment.
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Yes, we've already clarified that. There is no need to dwelve into that any further. Terrakion can 2HKO or KO most of the metagame with a Band or at +2.

However, I wouldn't say walling a Choice Scarf Pokemon isn't an achievement, because against some Pokemon it is. Walling CS Kyurem-B can be very important lest you want it to sweep your team with Outrage. Scarf Keldeo can 2HKO a lot of the meta in the rain bar Pokemon heavily invested in special defense, so being able to wall CS Keldeo is very important for more offensive oriented teams. I could go on and on about how walling specific users of Choice Scarf is important, but I think that's enough. Point is, saying that walling users of Scarfs isn't an accomplishment, is downright incorrect. There are a lot of Choice Scarfers that can hit most of the metagame very hard.
 
Actually, the number of Pokemon able to wall Terrakion greatly rose in BW2. Landorus-T and physically defensive Hippowdon, two excellent and popular Pokemon, both counter Terrakion and both can usually outlast it (only CB Terrakion can 2HKO Hippo with CC, needs SR to do it, and doesn't even get the 2HKO 50% of the time). Rain teams can easily use Landorus-T or bulky Toxicroak, which both wall Terrakion, as well as have Tentacruel, Lati@s, Scizor, and Starmie as good checks. Sun teams usually have Dugtrio and can limit Terrakion to one kill, but if the sun team doesn't manage to keep SR off the field Terrakion has the potential to do some serious work.

From my experience, Terrakion is a great Pokemon, but not S-rank worthy. No matter what team-style i chose, Terrakion usually gets covered between its plethora of checks, revenge killers (including priority) and even its three (Lando-T, defensive Gliscor, and Toxicroak in rain, and four if you account for Hippowdon which only loses to CB, a reliatively rare set) perfectly viable counters that are very easy to fit on teams (aside from Toxicroak which can only be used on rain teams).

I agree with Terrakion for A+ rank!
 
@Cloyster and Conk stuff
I'll agree on the Cloyster because I've made a team focusing around him, using a core of Magnezone/Cloyster/Latios. I can't say anything about Conkeldurr, because I've never used him, and don't face him often, only thing I can really say about him is he's bulky af and can't be worn down by status reliably because people are scared of guts.

Cloyster is fantastic, but it sadly is vulnerable to the (arguably) two best types in the game- Fighting and Steel. He has a hard time getting past Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Skarmory, which pretty much means you have to run a reliable way to get rid of steels. Furthermore, he's weak to Terrakion and Keldeo- both Scarfed +Spe variants are faster than Cloyster even at +2. He's slower than Venusaur in sun, too- speaking of which, he's terrible against, considering all he can run is Rock Blast/Icicle Spear/Hydro Pump or Razor Shell, and Ice can be walled by Heatran and Rock gets walled by Grass types. Because of Fighting and Sun, I use Latios to counter. Cloyster also can't take a special hit for his life, and is weak to SR to boot.

So why use him after all that? Because he's unstoppable after he sets up. ScarfMons are pretty much the only thing that can beat him, and they need to have around base 108 in the first place to outspeed with a Scarf. His base Defense is excellent, so he could tank a physical hit if he needs to in order to set up. Even though Rock/Ice/Water coverage isn't that good against sun, you'll be hard-pressed to find a RainMon not named Keldeo that resists all three types. At +2 coming off a base 95 Attack, not much lives. With Skill Link, Icicle Spear and Rock Blast both always hit 5 times- giving Cloyster two base 125 moves with no drawbacks, besides Rock Blast's 90% accuracy. They even can hit through subs, and cause major chances to flinch if you feel like playing your luck with King's Rock. Cloyster definitely fits in at B-. It's not a huge threat every team needs to prepare for, but can definitely cause huge damage to any team lacking a Scarfed Fighting type, priority, or the Steel Types listed above. B- for sure.

On Cloyster's item, I understand why people use White Herb, but use Life Orb or King's Rock. Either way, Cloyster will never be able to take a Special hit. Don't waste the item.
 
After deciding to try out Sheer Force Conkeldurr, I support a move for Conk up to B Rank. Conk's other sets are honestly completely underwhelming, but Sheer Force is a completely different story. The amount of raw power it has is simply ridiculous, Drain Punch and Mach Punch lose very little power compared to Conk's other sets, and ThunderPunch and Ice Punch hit much harder than Conk's other coverage moves on other sets. It also serves as an incredibly good anti-lead due to its ability to win 1v1 against a very large portion of the tier.

It doesn't fit on every team because competition for a fighting type slot is fierce (Breloom, Terrakion, Keldeo mainly), but where it does work it does some serious damage and never disappoints.
 
Actually Homeslice, Cloyster destroys sun if it runs Ice Shard over water coverage. It doesn't really lose much coverage anyway, only really significantly on Jirachi. It destroys Dugtrio as it breaks its sash, Ninetales with Rock Blast, Donphan's Sturdy is broken with Icicle Spear, and Venusaur is OHKOd at +2 with Ice Shard. I completely agree with Cloyster for B- or maybe even B. It gets such a bad reputation as a noob sweeper but it is absolutely deadly in the right hands. After smashing, there are literally no safe switch ins (and it could even go for 2 smashes if the opposing team lack a priority user). An extremely underlooked Pokemon that can rip through unprepared teams.
 
I completely agree with moving Cloyster up, just because 80% of its users are morons that doesn't diminish its amazing sweeping potential.

I have been going through that past few months of discussion, and thinking about the current list myself, and here are a few suggestions I have to at the least discuss more:
-Sawsbuck - add to list - D Rank: Sawsbuck is a solid sun sweeper, and while yes it has still competition with other sun sweepers, that doesn't diminish it's power. Plus, even if outclass it makes a great secondary sun sweeper. I honestly don't know why its on this list yet, its still solid despite its flaws.
-Magneton - add to list - D Rank: with a scarf it has certain advantages over scarf-Magnezone, so it certainly has a niche in OU.
-Medicham - add to list - D Rank: Medicham might seem outclassed by other fighting types, but it has some use due to its raw power, Medicham even has a OU analysis.
-Gastrodon - B Rank: this is C rank!? why? Despite its recent falling out in BW2 its still a very solid Pokemon, B- seems fitting.
 
Idk about Gastrodon to B-, I just think it's base stats are kinda pathetic. Sure, there is Storm Drain, walling Rotom-W and BoltBeam users, but there are better pokemon to use for that. I believe Gastrodon is fine in C rank.
 
I completely agree with Terrakion to A+ Rank: It's walled by mons like Hippowdon, Jellicent can easily come in on most sets and burn, so there are quite a few counters. Checks are very common, with mons like Latios and Starmie outspeeding and OHKOing.
I did nominate this earlier but it got swept away in discussion: Accelgor for C-Rank
As one of the fastest mons available, Accelgor can be a great revenge killer as well as a good offensive spike setter that can easily set up a layer or two.
 
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