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Ubers X&Y Fantasy: The Typing Of Fairy Tales! (UPDATE: FAIRY TYPE'S CHART CONFIRMED!!)

R_N said:
Hiro's rumors (which I see no reason to be wrong) say Xerneas is pure Fairy* while Yveltal is Dark/Flying

*Admittedly, it could have just been "It IS Fairy" instead of "It is PURE fairy"
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If this is true Xerneas will wreck some serious shit in Ubers. Yveltal would also be the best Darkrai & Arceus-Dark counter among other things, such as pooping on Giratina and Lugia.

I think Arceus-Steel would gain more significance now, because of its ability to hurt Fairy-types (if "Fairy is weak to Steel" is true) while still tanking Dragon hits.
 
Shiruba said:
fires will resist fairy tho
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And? There are only 2 commonly seen fires in ubers. Ho oh and arguably reshiram. Ho oh can't tank shit after losing 50% of its life from sr so it can hardly be called a safe switchin due to how difficult it is to spin in ubers and how prevalent sr is. Reshiram is even worse since it loses 25% which might not be as bad as ho oh. Hell reshiram's worse just for the fact that it's dragon and must have sun up in order for it to utilize blue flare (which just begs kyogre to come in) since due to the supposed dragon immunity fairies will get, resh can't spam dragon attacks.

Overall fire is still a shitty way to stop fairies. However in the likely chance that fairy type is specially based then the latis would most likely be able to wall fairies. That is if they have access to soul dew which might not be the case.
 
two commonly seen fires in ubers at the moment, as we have no idea what x and y will bring to the metagame. we may just get some awesome fire uber, or stealth rock could be nerfed. an older pokemon could rise rapidly in the ranks due to some newfound gift. we're definitely theorymonning here, but saying something "is" for sure is kinda dumb when the game isn't even out yet.
 
Shiruba said:
two commonly seen fires in ubers at the moment, as we have no idea what x and y will bring to the metagame. we may just get some awesome fire uber, or stealth rock could be nerfed. an older pokemon could rise rapidly in the ranks due to some newfound gift. we're definitely theorymonning here, but saying something "is" for sure is kinda dumb when the game isn't even out yet.
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What kind of fire mon do you want? A fire/flying with magic guard and 750 bst? Obviously not. How can you claim that stealth rock will be nerfed? After all its for a game that isn't out yet. And even when it is released, it'll take months to get all the new moves that pokes can learn + dw abilities + base stats among other things.
 
Haruno said:
What kind of fire mon do you want? A fire/flying with magic guard and 750 bst? Obviously not.
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nah. "a fire type with uber-worthy stats and some good niche in the metagame" would do nicely.
Haruno said:
How can you claim that stealth rock will be nerfed?
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Shiruba said:
or stealth rock could be nerfed.
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Haruno said:
And even when it is released, it'll take months to get all the new moves that pokes can learn + dw abilities + base stats among other things.
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that's my point. saying that fire will absolutely suck as a fairy counter doesn't make sense when almost everything is in shadow.
 
Considering we're only theory monning with just fairy types and the tools we have atm, it's a safe assumption to say fire will suck as a defensive counter to fairy.
 
Ho-Oh CAN tank hits even with SR. Hell, Ho-Oh is a damn beast, and if it does resist Fairy, Ho-Oh would be a excellent counter to Fairy-Arceus. I mean, Ho-Oh is the best checks for all Arceus forms but Eletric, Rock and Water forms(Ho-Oh beats Water-Arceus in the sun). Of those other Fairy type Pokemon(confirmed, as other them Arceus no Pokemon outside of Marril, Gardevoir, Sylveon and Jigglypuff are confirmed) of those, the only one that MAY have relevance in the Ubers meta is Azumarril(if it is Fairy) and maybe Sylveon. Most of the other have crappy stats, and most likely won't be good even with a new typing.
 
282.png

Gardevoir @ Choice Scarf
Trace
Modest 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Fairy STAB
- Focus Blast
- Grass Knot
- Healing Wish / Trick / Memento

Assuming the rumored characteristics of Fairy are correct, I think this set could see a little play. It obviously won't have much impact on the metagame unless the pool of usable Fairy-types is small, but it'll be there as something that fills a niche. Trace is one of the big selling points here and is probably the only thing keeping Gardevoir from being outclassed by a possible Fairy-type Azelf. With it, you're able to handily outspeed threats like Excadrill, Kabutops, Omastar, etc., Pokemon that traditionally are very troublesome for Scarfers who aren't blisteringly fast (+2 Omastar is still a problem though). I don't think there's much merit in going Timid since the only thing it lets you move faster than is Mewtwo, whom you can't even really touch outside of Trick or Memento (which are more inconveniences to it that an actual answer). You outspeed Darkrai with Modest, which is cool since your STAB is supposedly super-effective against it.

You don't really need a Psychic-STAB since you'll usually prefer the Fairy-STAB anyway (unless all of the Fairy-type special moves are way too weak in which case this set is worthless), so this set has more room for coverage moves. Focus Blast is obviously important against Darkrai and Excadrill, and Grass Knot (no Thunder, sadly) hits Kyogre, Groudon, Swift Swimmers, etc. In the last spot there are a few options for support moves: Healing Wish to give a set-up sweeper another go, Memento to aid set-up, Trick to cripple walls, etc.
 
I'm not liking the sound of this new type. A defensive fairy-type could become common in ubers with all the Dragon-type moves. Plus, its weak to the two least-used offensive types in the game. Might be enough for Dialga to start running Flash Cannon, and Scizor might start seeing more usage as well.
 
Just found this thread now.

My honest opinion about the fairy type is that having a dragon immunity is broken, at least in terms of the current metagame. Blissey and Chansey, two of the best special walls in the game period, now CANNOT be phased or take damage from Giratina-O's Dragon Tail. Add on to this the ability to reliably wall Scarf and Band Outrages and Scarf and Specs Draco Meteors, and Fairy type pokemon nullify the core nature of the uber tier - powerful dragon spam.

Anyways, here's a list of the pokemon that I think will be the best if they turn out to be fairy type and the fairy type turns out to provide dragon immunity. Every pokemon has a physical defense buff from the damage nullification of Outrage, so I won't mention that.

Chansey & Blissey - Fairy type has amazing synergy with them. Weakness to Steel and Poison is irrelevant because they already lose to those Arceus forms. Now beats Arceus-Dragon.
Breloom - Palkia counter.
Roserade - Palkia counter.
Celebi - Palkia counter.
Shaymin - Switch into Dragon attacks and build up pressure. More reliable offensive check to Palkia.
Claydol - Zekrom has met its match.
Whimsicott - Switch into Dragon attacks and be an asshole.
Cyrogonal - Amazing spinblocker. No longer fears Giratina-O Dragon Tail.
Jynx - Palkia counter. Incredibly difficult to kill.
Froslass - Dragon immunity gives tons of free turns of setup if played right.
Jirachi - Not a massive benefit but a pretty cool addition. Once again forces pokemon that would run Dragon Tail to go Roar.
Manaphy - The Calm Mind set got a lot harder to revenge kill and found many more setup opportunities. Forces pokemon to run Roar when they would have ran Dragon Tail.

Arceus-Steel, Genesect, Dialga, Excadrill, Scizor, Heatran, Ferrothorn rise in popularity.
Hidden power steel is used on select pokemon with no steel moves, the same way hp fire was sometimes used, especially on calm mind pokemon

Oh and Fairy type is inherently gay so I don't really like it.
 
wiglytuff for ubers lololol

more seriously, I think some things with fairy typing would become decent to super good picks for ubers. For example, I could see accelgor being a decent offensive spiker with bug STAB, dragon immunity, and dat speed for checking darkrai and co.

Jynx I think would also be much more viable, setting up on most choiced kyogre AND dragons. Lovely kiss + NP + Ice STAB is pretty great, too.

Both blobs would become much more viable, as well, since rayquaza can no longer outrage them and neither can kyurem-b. Also not being worn down by repeated draco meteors would be nice.

Cryogonal, being able to break most spinblockers, would be a decent spinner and semi-reliable special sponge. Being able to wall kyurem-w's STABs would be a bonus woth mentioning.

Manaphy, all the grass types on the list, and froslass could also be good wielders of this typing.

I think with fairy we can expect a jump in popularity of offense for a couple reasons, despite the dragon immunity. Stall would be way worse since now dragon tail immunities would be pretty annoying (though substitute ho-oh is already annoying for d-tailers). This tremendously nerfs both giratinas, two of the three common spinblockers, which means ghostceus is the only one not hampered by fairies. With this, I think spinners will increase, so things like toxic forretress, toxic cryogonal, tentacrual and kabutops and excadrill will be more difficult than ever for stall to handle (since ghostceus is hardly as good vs. kabutops and excadrill as the giratinas are). But none of this might happen if xy introduces some amazing new defensive threats that stall can take advantage of.

On a different note, I think dialga will increase in usage since it can use flash cannon or iron head to break fairies easily.

EDIT: Also looking forward to using azelf and cresselia (finally has a niche over lugia YES)

EDIT 2: Also alomomola (lol) might be sorta cool as a rayquaza check with dragon immunity+ fire resist, and a decent ho-oh check if sun isnt up though with ho-oh involved it probably will be).
Also, xatu wont have that much trouble with dialga anymore, so take THAT espeon!
 
I don't think stall will take that big a hit as most tend to carry several pokemon with roar/whirlwind to deal with substitutes as stall's dragon tail are rather weak in general.
also they may have a new typing to play with and screw around with palkia (and fellow dragons)
 
lousy918 said:
I don't think stall will take that big a hit as most tend to carry several pokemon with roar/whirlwind to deal with substitutes as stall's dragon tail are rather weak in general.
also they may have a new typing to play with and screw around with palkia (and fellow dragons)
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Are you kidding? This buffs stall. With so many teams relying on offensive sub shuffler Giratina-O to win stall wars, they are now forced to run a different set or pokemon.
 
I was also thinking that a lot of the heavy-hitters that threaten stall and stall Pokemon would now be at least kept in check, allowing them to buy more time for more residual damage.
 
yes that is true I was just thinking that a lot of the potential fairies are more offensive, and that this would make them sort of like ferrothorn, able to function as pivots on balanced or offensive teams and not just walls for stall. yes, checking dragons would be great for stall, but I am thinking that offense will also appreciate this since they can run offensive checks that can use 0 defense EVs but still take nothing from dragon moves instead of needing a bulkier pokemon that has to invest in defense a lot. I probably should have said something like, "this is a weird idea but I think stall might drop" in my last post instead of, "stall WILL drop." Sorry about that!
 
I don't understand why there is so much emphasis on this thread on the speculated dragon immunity. I understand that it would have a pretty interesting change on the metagame, but I feel like there should be more focus on what is actually known about the Fairy type, namely that it will be another offensive option to deal with dragons.

I also feel it should be more clearly distinguished what is speculation and what is known. The PS chat yesterday was full of people telling others in very matter-of-fact tones about how Fire and Psychic will resist Fairy and how amazing Chansey/Blissey will be with their Fairy typing.
 
Donkey said:
Just found this thread now.

My honest opinion about the fairy type is that having a dragon immunity is broken, at least in terms of the current metagame. Blissey and Chansey, two of the best special walls in the game period, now CANNOT be phased or take damage from Giratina-O's Dragon Tail. Add on to this the ability to reliably wall Scarf and Band Outrages and Scarf and Specs Draco Meteors, and Fairy type pokemon nullify the core nature of the uber tier - powerful dragon spam.

Anyways, here's a list of the pokemon that I think will be the best if they turn out to be fairy type and the fairy type turns out to provide dragon immunity. Every pokemon has a physical defense buff from the damage nullification of Outrage, so I won't mention that.

Chansey & Blissey - Fairy type has amazing synergy with them. Weakness to Steel and Poison is irrelevant because they already lose to those Arceus forms. Now beats Arceus-Dragon.
Breloom - Palkia counter.
Roserade - Palkia counter.
Celebi - Palkia counter.
Shaymin - Switch into Dragon attacks and build up pressure. More reliable offensive check to Palkia.
Claydol - Zekrom has met its match.
Whimsicott - Switch into Dragon attacks and be an asshole.
Cyrogonal - Amazing spinblocker. No longer fears Giratina-O Dragon Tail.
Jynx - Palkia counter. Incredibly difficult to kill.
Froslass - Dragon immunity gives tons of free turns of setup if played right.
Jirachi - Not a massive benefit but a pretty cool addition. Once again forces pokemon that would run Dragon Tail to go Roar.
Manaphy - The Calm Mind set got a lot harder to revenge kill and found many more setup opportunities. Forces pokemon to run Roar when they would have ran Dragon Tail.

Arceus-Steel, Genesect, Dialga, Excadrill, Scizor, Heatran, Ferrothorn rise in popularity.
Hidden power steel is used on select pokemon with no steel moves, the same way hp fire was sometimes used, especially on calm mind pokemon

Oh and Fairy type is inherently gay so I don't really like it.
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Well, how does Breloom counter Palkia? Surf from a Lustrous Orb Palkia does 73.12% min, and Palkia outspeeds. Not only that, Palkia has the bulk to take Mach Punchs. Scarf Palkia does minimum 61.25%. Oh, did I mention that is a SubSeed Breloom? Without any investiment, it take even more. Outside of that, liked your post a lot.
 
A normal, Physical Breloom is OHKO'd by Surf, even from scarfed Palkia. This is calced with a Normal/Figthing Breloom, as it's Grass typing affects the calculation, of course.
 
Something to note for this thread and future Ubers X&Y Fantasy threads: Don't worry if gamefreak deconfirms something. The point of these threads is to stretch our brains and apply our Ubers knowledge in a fun way! I WILL update this thread when new stuff about Fairy is confirmed, but for now, just assume that the rumor is true, and use that list, even though I doubt even half that list will become Fairies.

Speaking of that, something I see a lot of people missing is how Outrage would work with Fairy. Assuming it's like gen 5, an immunity will actually STOP the Outrage lock in. So unlike Steels, Outraging Dragons can run away from Fairy switch ins! However, Fairies can still come on after an Outrage kill and revenge Dragons, so I can still see Outrage usage falling a bit.

I think most Uber Dragons will survive the nerf (and a few, such as Dialga and Black Kyurem, can actually smash Fairies with Steel type attacks!), I think the main thing is that choiced Dragon usage will go WAY down. I don't think they will be unviable, since most uber Dragons have a good secondary STAB, but I think that unless you are Dialga with Specs Flash Cannon / Band Iron Head, you are going to prefer to use an LO for offense now to lower the risk of being set up bait for scary Fairies like Manaphy.
 
locoghoul said:
choiced dragon is already meh lol. Dunno why people keep using scarf palkia...
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Because it's the first set in Smogon's onsite analysis, and Fire Blast is also slashed with the horrible Outrage (seriously, who uses Palkia without Fire Blast these days?). Scarf Palkia sucks.
 
We would know for a fact that Gamefreak has trolled us if they make Chansey and Blissey Fairy-types. They would becomes much more popular, especially in ubers where there's all those Dragon-type moves.
 
I'm not sure if this is the best place to post this, but it seems like there is no other relevant thread save the theorymon one; however, the information I am talking about is confirmed here: http://www.pokemonxy.com/en-us/pokemon/legendary_pokemon/

List of confirmed infomation:
-Fairy Aura: raises power of fairy type moves for all pokemon(amount unknown)
-Dark Aura: raises power of all dark type moves (amount unknown)
-Xerneas is a pure Fairy type
-Yvetval is a Dark/Flying type
-Both pokemon are pretty heavy, and therefore hit by 120 BP Low Kick and Grass Knot (not factoring in weaknesses and resistances)
-Xerneas gets a unique move called "Geomancy" (likely to be a special fairy attack)
-Yvetval gets a unique move called Oblivion Wing (possible dark/flying move?)
-Yvetval gets some move where it flies up to the sky and releases a red beam (likely to be a charge up move)

The inclusion of these two pokemon and abilities makes it seem like Ubers is going to be even more different than previously anticipated. The Fairy typing seemed to nerf dragons quite a bit, though they are so dominant and so powerful, it didn't seem like the end of the world. However, the ability Fairy Aura makes things particularly troubling for them. Poor Giratina cannot even rely on Dark Aura to cancel it out (it is doubtful that both can be in play) as it takes increased damage from dark types. Spinblocking will be incredibly difficult in this environment, and I expect stall to suffer. It's expected that the new legendaries would have powerful STAB moves, and I'm pretty excited if we get a 120BP dark type move next gen.

If Fairy and Dark Aura cancel out WEATHER, then things start to get REALLY interesting.
 
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