Theorymon Discussion and Viability Ranking

[Gary]

What if Gyarados got Acrobatics?

While there's not much precedent for something like Gyarados getting Acrobatics, which is usually reserved for land or sky critters, it's the most likely powerful Flying-type move for it to have as Brave Bird, etc. are obviously no-nos, and fellow Water/Flying type Mantine does get the move (although according to the Pokédex it can fly, unlike Gyarados).

Let's face it, Bounce is a terrible STAB move (worse than Fly!). Acrobatics would make a Flying Gem set very viable on Gyarados, as it can get through things like Ferrothorn before a Dragon Dance and everything not resisting Flying afterwards. Unfortunately our favorite leviathan doesn't get Unburden, which would make it the best mon in OU, but it still is extremely hard to wall, 2HKOing almost the whole metagame. However, it does have the same problems with revenge killers and status, keeping it from becoming an S-rank threat.

Although Bounce isn't the best STAB, Gyarados makes fine work of it. It's not worse than Fly, because the paralysis chance makes up for the slight loss of accuracy and power. Although Gyarados would appreciate a better STAB like Brave Bird, I don't really see how Gyarados would get Acrobatics but not Brave Bird. It just doesn't really fit flavor wise for either of them. I feel like Bounce would still be a bit superior to Acrobatics on the bulkier DD sets, because Gyarados really appreciates the Leftovers recovery. It would be decent for the offensive DD sets, but not THAT amazing. It just really doesn't fit.

 

[Chou Toshio]

I think you're undervaluing acrobatics (though I agree it makes no sense flavorwise). 110 base power 100 acc Flying STAB is amazing-- probably worth more than the leftovers actually if you're going with Bounce, which leaves you vulnerable to a lot of foes, like protect Ferrothorn or Volt Turn anything (predict the bounce against something like Celebi and switch to Electric type or Foretress as Gyarados jumps up).

Plus there's the ridiculous monster power Acrobatics would have on the turn it used Flying Gem. Or there's the very cool benefits that would come with Lum Berry. Or whatever. With resistances to Mach Punch and Bullet Punch, Sub-DD Gyara could probably even make a Liechi set do ridiculous things.

 

[G-Von]

What if Archeops had a useless ability instead of Defeatist

Archeops has one of the best offensive spreads ever given to a pokemon with 140 base attack and 112 base special attack. It also has an amazingly wide movepool that got even bigger when the BW2 move tutors were introduced. Thanks to Defeatist, however, Archeops cannot make it out of RU. It is in a great speed tier with the likes of Gengar, the Latis, and Espeon so it can hit many things very had very quickly. I was gonna say what if it had something like Swords Dance or Superpower, but I think this would generate the best discussion for theorymoning Archeops.

 

[Prinz]

For sure Archeops will improve a bit but, in my opinion, it still wouldn't be so great. It has a poor moverpool and bad statistics of defenses as well. Maybe will it compete with Aerodactyl as another lead for offensive teams which need Stealth Rock as soon as possible? I don't know, while it can hit harder than Aero it's less fast and it hasn't Fire Blast, a move really useful for Aero imo, since it allows to screw Forretress, Skarmory, Scizor and Ferrothorn which are really common switch into Aero nowadays and which would be common switch into Archeops too.

Ah, it hasn't even any setup move except Agility (it would appreciated Sword Dance as G-Von already said for example and Superpower as well to hit annoying mons like Ferrothorn) so Archeops actually needs too much things to do well in the OU tier. Have a secondary ability would improve it but not so much, just a very little.

 

[G-Von]

Is Heat Wave not good enough to you or did you not know Archeops received it through the BW2 Move Tutors? I would also refuse to describe Archeops as having a "poor movepool". The only things it lacks are the two moves I listed, other than that, its nothing short of impressive.

 

[Gary]

For sure Archeops will improve a bit but, in my opinion, it still wouldn't be so great. It has a poor moverpool and bad statistics of defenses as well. Maybe will it compete with Aerodactyl as another lead for offensive teams which need Stealth Rock as soon as possible? I don't know, while it can hit harder than Aero it's less fast and it hasn't Fire Blast, a move really useful for Aero imo, since it allows to screw Forretress, Skarmory, Scizor and Ferrothorn which are really common switch into Aero nowadays and which would be common switch into Archeops too.

Ah, it hasn't even any setup move except Agility (it would appreciated Sword Dance as G-Von already said for example and Superpower as well to hit annoying mons like Ferrothorn) so Archeops actually needs too much things to do well in the OU tier. Have a secondary ability would improve it but not so much, just a very little.

Nah Archeop's niche would be far more diverse than just being a user of Stealth Rock. Unlike Archeops, Aerodactyl only has Stone Edge to abuse STAB wise, whereas Archeops has access to Acrobatics and Head Smash, to extremely powerful attacks that Aerodactyl wishes it had. Archeops also has a MUCH higher Attack stat, and a above average SpA, letting it run either Heat Wave (it's almost just as good as Fire Blast) or a Hidden Power to patch up some of its weaknesses. It also has access to U-turn, letting it gain switch advantage on a common switch-in. It would find itself commonly running Flying Gem, Banded, and Scarfed sets most likely. You are indeed REALLY underestimating Archeops as a Pokemon, because it would much more useful than Aerodactyl outside of setting up rocks. A weakness to common priority and SR would be the only thing keeping it from being a top tier threat. Even if its movepool isn't amazing, U-turn, Head Smash, Acrobatics, Heat Wave, and Earthquake is really all it would need.

 

[Prinz]

ya, i forgot it could learn heat wave. you guys are right, archeops would improve a lot then

and nah @acrobatics archeops, as gary already said bounce is enough in my opinion and if gyarados could learn acrobatics why couldn't it get brave bird too?

ok i'll response @chlorophyll roserade as well: while it will for sure improve a bit, it would be just outclassed by venusaur and by victreebel too. roserade is just too fragile and a priority like cb dragonite's extremespeed and cb scizor's bullet punch are enough to deal with it. and in my opinion a mon fragile like roserade isn't a setup sweeper so good.

another edit: @g-von: maybe you wanted write "what if archeops got an useful ability, not useless since it has already an useless one. i'm sure it's a typo, no problem. maybe would rock head fit? would be nice spam head smash without recoil, i guess.

 

[Gary]

another edit: @g-von: maybe you wanted write "what if archeops got an useful ability, not useless since it has already an useless one. i'm sure it's a typo, no problem. maybe would rock head fit? would be nice spam head smash without recoil, i guess.

I think he still meant useless, because pretty much any ability is better than Defeatist. I guess he thinks that a useful ability would break Archeops? Rock Head would make Archeops a huge threat with Head Smash, especially Scarfed and Banded variants. I don't know if it would break it though. It's too frail and weak to pretty much every form of priority (still takes a ton from Mach Punch). Being SR weak only hinders it more. A good ability would make Archeops a top tier threat no doubt, but it's one of those Pokemon that has to KO something or it's in trouble. It's powerful and fast, but not over the top.

 

[Prinz]

yeah any type of priority wreck it expect extremespeed of course, anyways let's talk about another mon which are a really bad ability, so...

What if Slaking got any ability instead of Truant?

Slaking actually has a stellar base attack of 160, a not bad base speed of 100 and a really good bulk. plus, it hasn't a bad moverpool, the only problem is its horrible ability, Truant which makes Slaking just a NU tier mon. But without it, will it raise up to OU tier? in my opinion that would be possible since it has good statistics overall and not a bad moverpool (return + eq + superpower + night slash / pursuit is enough for me), the only problem would be the fight-type mons which are everywhere nowadays (just think about terrakion, keldeo and to mons which are fight-type moves in theit moverpool too like tyranitar, scizor and the list can continue) but nothing is perfect, isn't it? at least, it would improve more than a lot.

 

[G-Von]

another edit: @g-von: maybe you wanted write "what if archeops got an useful ability, not useless since it has already an useless one. i'm sure it's a typo, no problem. maybe would rock head fit? would be nice spam head smash without recoil, i guess.

I meant what I typed because Defeatist is a hindering ability, while a useless ability like Pick Up would improve Archeops tons.

Slaking is in the same boat as Regi; its dumb powerful, pretty bulky, and fast. It could run SubPunch, Band, Scarf, LO, and would almost definitely be OU.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

About Regigigas and Slaking being OU if they had non hindering abilities...I just don't buy it. Let's look at it realistically. Okay first off they both have a terrible STAB, hitting nothing for super effective damage, and their STAB is resisted by common types in OU (Steel, Rock, Ghost). It's base 160 attack may look amazing on paper, but when you look at other Pokemon in the tier who has better coverage and STABs, you'll see that the slight power increase isn't worth it.

252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 288-339 (62.2 - 73.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Return vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Vaporeon: 315-372 (68.03 - 80.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

I honestly think Sub Punch is a pretty bad strategy(?) in the first place, but again Slaking in general is outclassed by other Focus Punches, like say Breloom, who has a better ability, better STAB, and has in general better synergy with it's team (since normal types offer no synergy in a team, apart from a Ghost immunity). Slaking has a base 100 speed, which is pretty sweet, but most people consider the standard for speed to be 108, as with anything lower you're getting revenged killed pretty easily (Choice Scarf or not). And finally, I don't see a LO set working, as LO really deteriorates it's bulk, which imo would be very useful for Slaking. I won't go into much detail, but I'll just quickly say that there are so many Fighting types in OU, and it's rare to not see one on a team (this would decrease Slaking's usage drastically for obvious reasons). I just don't see a niche that Slaking fills that doesn't make it outclassed by other Pokemon.

 

[Chou Toshio]

For the record, Normal is not a terrible STAB. Grass is a terrible STAB. Fire is a not so great STAB (without Sun being up). Normal gets good coverage with just 1 support move, and flawless or near flawless with 2 support moves. Let's add the fact that we're talking about physical attackers, which have both Return (104 power / 100 acc), and Double Edge (120 Power / 100 acc recoil), two moves that the vast majority of types would kill for-- types like Dark, Ghost, Water, and Dragon have nothing even close to that power and reliability, and others still have similar moves but with terrible distribution (Flying, Electric, etc.). Now keep in mind that these attacks are coming off of Regigigas and Slaking's INSANE attack stats, and you got total beast. Furthermore, both of them have excellent coverage and support movepools.

Are you forgetting that slacking has reliable recovery in Slack Off? AND it has absolutely insane overall bulk?

Granted, Kyuurem B also has a very similar stat spread to both with even scarier STAB attacks-- but Slaking/Regi have superior coverage moves and far less environment based problems (no SR weak, far superior set of weaknesses); plus, we're comparing them to Cube, who is a top tier threat.

Without a doubt, Pickup Slaking/Regi would be great OU threats. Maybe not top-tier, and I also doubt they would become Uber, but they'd definitely be in there. Who knows-- they might actually smash enough face to be broken; we'd have to test to know I think.

 

[Torterragatr]

What if Slaking got any ability instead of Truant?

It might actually be Uber tbh. Even though it hasn't got the best typing, 150/100/65 defenses are really, really good, enough to survive weaker supereffective attacks (even Specs Keldeo's Secret Sword with moderate investment, actually). Unlike the only other Pokémon that has a similar BST in the tier, Slaking isn't weak to Stealth Rock, has a great offensive movepool and okay speed. I can see banded, Choice Scarf, tank and even fully defensive sets all being viable, which would make it top-tier at worst.

Anyway, throwing out a theorymon that makes more sense than Acrobatics, what if Heatran got Recover/Morning Sun? Defensive sets are good, but they are held back by Heatran's lack of reliable recovery, which makes it prone to being worn down. With Recover, that flaw is no more. It could even make alternative item choices like Air Balloon usable (although Leftovers would still be the main item choice). Morning Sun is a better flavor choice than Recover and is worse in general, but it could see use on sun teams where it would recover absurd amounts of HP.

 

[Prinz]

It would be so great for Heatran that actually would appreciate a recovery move to check Dragons-types better. Normally, a Heatran can't check Dragon-types all the day, Choice Specs Latios' Draco Meteor and CB Dragonite's Outrage still do lots of damages on Heatran but with Recover or Morning Sun (the last fits better with Heatran itself tbh) it could switch into dragon-type moves more and more easily (and into other attacks as well, of course) with the right prediction naturally since it would still fears Superpower / Earthquake / Surf and other coverage moves.

Anyways, returning on the discuss about Slaking I don't think it would be even Uber. I mean, without that useless ability it would be really powerful but it would be still checkable since Choice Scarf and Choice Band would be (imo) the most common sets and you can just send your Steel-type on its Normal-type attack (you should be carefully to not switch into a Superpower / Earthquake) or you can just send in a mon which resists to the move you think it'll use. Imo Choice users aren't too hard to handle in battle. However, nobody could decide the tier a mon would get without or with a thing in a theorymon session because that's just theorymon lol and to decide these kind of things we usually do suspect, as Chou Toshio already said.

Post more ideas guys :D I am glad these discuss are always enjoyable

 

[ShootingStarmie]

For the record, Normal is not a terrible STAB. Grass is a terrible STAB. Fire is a not so great STAB (without Sun being up). Normal gets good coverage with just 1 support move, and flawless or near flawless with 2 support moves. Let's add the fact that we're talking about physical attackers, which have both Return (104 power / 100 acc), and Double Edge (120 Power / 100 acc recoil), two moves that the vast majority of types would kill for-- types like Dark, Ghost, Water, and Dragon have nothing even close to that power and reliability, and others still have similar moves but with terrible distribution (Flying, Electric, etc.). Now keep in mind that these attacks are coming off of Regigigas and Slaking's INSANE attack stats, and you got total beast. Furthermore, both of them have excellent coverage and support movepools.

Are you forgetting that slacking has reliable recovery in Slack Off? AND it has absolutely insane overall bulk?

Granted, Kyuurem B also has a very similar stat spread to both with even scarier STAB attacks-- but Slaking/Regi have superior coverage moves and far less environment based problems (no SR weak, far superior set of weaknesses); plus, we're comparing them to Cube, who is a top tier threat.

Without a doubt, Pickup Slaking/Regi would be great OU threats. Maybe not top-tier, and I also doubt they would become Uber, but they'd definitely be in there. Who knows-- they might actually smash enough face to be broken; we'd have to test to know I think.

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from, but Normal STAB as an offensive type really isn't that good. Like I said Steel types and Rock types are walling it, and yes, it does have coverage moves but what top OU Pokemon doesn't? The fact that it can't spam it's STAB because of it's terrible coverage already means it's hitting less hard than you're making out to be.

Yeah Slaking has reliable recovery, but the only time I see it using it is against stall teams, which aren't popular at the moment, as every time Slaking is getting hit hard, meaning it isn't going to find time to regain it's health, and it's losing vital coverage, meaning it's going to be hard walled (depending on what coverage you drop).

Also, I think you under-estimate how powerful this metagame actually is in practice. I mean base 160 attack seems great, but it really doesn't tell the whole story. When you compare it to hitters like Keldeo in Rain, banded Terrakion, NP Thundurus-T, Double Dancing Landorus-T, and Kyurem-B, it really just doesn't match up. Also it's bulk is actually on par to a lot of these Pokemon, and it's out speed by all of these Pokemon too.

I think Slaking would be BL

 

[Chou Toshio]

I think you are seriously underestimating Normal's effectiveness as a STAB offensive type. Normal is DEFINITELY a spammable STAB type. Moreover, what makes a good STAB is not super effective coverage-- it's NEUTRAL coverage. Just look at Dragon. Normal is NOT a long ways away from Dragon.

In metagames like RBY and GS (and even ADV) where Normal Pokemon had a base stat advantage against enemy Pokemon (Tauros and Snorlax), those Pokemon were truly terrifying.

Considering the power/reliability of physical Normal attacks, AND their EXCELLENT neutral coverage, Normal is definitely a lethal, spammable STAB type for any Pokemon with the stats and coverage options to make it work.

I mean, try telling Arceus and Lucario (who doesn't even have STAB!!) that Normal is not a spammable attack type. ExtremeKiller is THE most lethal offensive Pokemon in the whole game-- and it has an 80 base power Normal attack coming off only 120 base ATK as its main STAB.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Why are you bringing up RBY and GS as if you can even compare them to BW? That's like saying look how bad Fighting types were in RBY. I just can't accept the idea of Normal STAB being spam-able, with the abundance of Steel types in OU. I dunno, maybe we just have different ideas of what's Spam-able.

Also, you're actually bringing up Arceus. Like really? Lucario I can understand, but Arceus?Come on man, that's a bit bias don't you think? Arceus has so much more going on for it than Slaking (a boosting move, incredible speed, amazing bulk etc), and I don't really know much about Ubers so I can't comment too much on it. Lucario using Extreme Speed as a coverage move doesn't mean it's spam-able nor is it a good option for a STAB. It's used for priority, not because of the coverage it offers.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Has the type chart changed for Normal over the years? Not really. Honestly, Rhydon was a lot better equipped to block Tauros than Jirachi, Scizor or even Skarmory would be to stop ability-less Slaking.

I'm just pointing out that you are wrong that Normal can't be an effective, Spammable, main offensive type. It DEFINITELY can be. Steel types resist is? So what-- Steel types resist half the metagame. It hasn't stopped Dragon, Flying, or Ice from being ridiculous.

Pokemon that resist Normal in OU: The Pokemon that resist Dragon, + Gengar, + Jellicent, +Tyranitar, + Terrakion.

^So a grand total of 4 relevant threats to separate Normal's neutral coverage from Dragon's.

Tyranitar/Terrakion is fucked by the same Fighting/Ground attacks used to cover Steel-- so they're almost moot, and Gengar/Jellicent by Ghost ones. As I said, Normal is pretty damn close to Dragon in potential effectiveness. The fact that Return/Double Edge is far superior to Outrage in terms of power/reliability should definitely not be underestimated either.


Slaking
252 AtK, 4SpA, 100 SPE
Naughty
@Choice Band
-Double Edge
-Earthquake / Hammer Arm
-Shadow Claw
-Fire Punch

Can 2HKO EVERY Pokemon in the metagame. How is that BL?

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 100 Def Jirachi: 380-448 (94.05 - 110.89%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Fire Punch vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 180-212 (55.04 - 64.83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Night Slash vs. 248 HP / 216+ Def Jellicent: 274-324 (67.99 - 80.39%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 386-456 (95.54 - 112.87%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Return vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 277-327 (65.95 - 77.85%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 243-286 (57.85 - 68.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 244-288 (68.92 - 81.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. 200 HP / 244 Def Landorus-T: 214-253 (57.99 - 68.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 458-540 (141.35 - 166.66%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Kyurem-B: 271-321 (59.69 - 70.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO --just for lols

Plus, it is statistically BULKIER than EVERY Pokemon on this list (except maybe Kyuurem-B), and has a decent 100 Speed. How is this BL?

 

[Maestro72]

I agree with Chou Toshio about how effective Normal coverage is with the right support options. Normal has pretty much been what Dragon will be Gen 6 and what Psychic became in Gen 2. Throw on the right SE coverage and watch teams crumble.

Having said that, I do not believe that Slaking has those SE coverage options available to him, at least not for his primary offensive stat. Earthquake is there, but then you'd need to go with Fire Punch to Skarmory, Forretress, Ferrothorn, and Scizor, and finally that leaves the choice of hitting balloon-Heatran with Hammer Arm/Brick Break, or hitting Gengar with Shadow Claw.

Unfortunately, outside of EQ, those coverage moves are pitifully weak (or so I assume from the metagame trends: after all, why not use Surf over Hydro Pump if that extra power didn't matter?).

However, looking at Slaking's movepool has me thinking in a more extreme direction:

How quickly would Slaking move to Ubers if it had Sheer Force?

 

[Torterragatr]

Normal is pretty damn close to Dragon in potential effectiveness.

Sorry, even though I agree with your main point I'm going to have to stop you. It's true that not many more Pokémon in OU resist Normal than Dragon, but those Pokémon are very, very common, to the point that it's quite likely you'll see at least one of them on a team. Normal has decent neutral coverage, sure, but it can't hit anything supereffectively, which puts a dent in its usefulness, and the types that resist or are immune to it are again common in OU.

While Slaking can screw over any switch-in with the appropriate coverage (one of the reasons I think Slaking will be very strong), it requires prediction, meaning that it can't just spam Double-Edge or it will be in a tight spot, mostly against Ghost-types (especially if it holds a Choice item as Alexander suggests would be the main set)

EDIT: interesting calc here

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 174-204 (43.06 - 50.49%) -- 55.08% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

Yeah, maybe Slaking's sheer strength will make up for his STAB.

 

[Chou Toshio]

Unfortunately, outside of EQ, those coverage moves are pitifully weak

I don't think the low base power of Fire Punch / Night Slash mean much when CB Fire Punch 2HKO's physically defensive Skarmory, and Night Slash 2HKO's physically defensive Jellicent.

Also, @ Balloon Heatran (I hope you're joking with this)--

252+ Atk Choice Band Slaking Double-Edge vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 179-211 (46.49 - 54.8%) -- 64.45% chance to 2HKO


Molk: i just did calcs
[9:54pm] Molk: slaking is more physically bulky than cresselia
[9:54pm] Molk: lol

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

The fact that nothing takes super effective damage from normal attacks is irrelevant. Slaking has 160 attack. Sorry but it simply doenst matter. Slaking has the power to 2hko the entire metagame and the bulk to avoid being koed. Lol even terrakion needs a choice band to ohko it safely. If slaking had another ability it would be without a doubt a top tier threat and most likely suspected and banned. Something that can completely murder the entire game with a simple choice band set is definitely a threat to watch for.

 

[alexwolf]

yeah any type of priority wreck it expect extremespeed of course, anyways let's talk about another mon which are a really bad ability, so...

What if Slaking got any ability instead of Truant?

Slaking actually has a stellar base attack of 160, a not bad base speed of 100 and a really good bulk. plus, it hasn't a bad moverpool, the only problem is its horrible ability, Truant which makes Slaking just a NU tier mon. But without it, will it raise up to OU tier? in my opinion that would be possible since it has good statistics overall and not a bad moverpool (return + eq + superpower + night slash / pursuit is enough for me), the only problem would be the fight-type mons which are everywhere nowadays (just think about terrakion, keldeo and to mons which are fight-type moves in theit moverpool too like tyranitar, scizor and the list can continue) but nothing is perfect, isn't it? at least, it would improve more than a lot.

I don't really think Slaking is OU material even without Truant, assuming you give him a useless ability. With the prevalence of Steel-types in OU, only a few offensive Normal types can survive in OU, and even those are not in OU. Stoutland works because under sand it has that insane Speed which allows it to be one of the best revenge killers, and the same goes for Sawsbuck under sun. While Slaking indeed has insane power, its STAB is mediocre, its typing is useless defensively, and its Speed is really nothing impressive. So, while power is good, it takes more than this for an offensive Pokemon to make it in OU. Kyurem-B is the first Pokemon that comes to mind and outclasses Slaking for the most part. It has a typing that can be used defensively and allows it to combat rain and sun teams, which Slaking fails to do. It has Dragon AND Ice STABs, which are vastly better than just Normal STAB. Finally, it can go mixed to get through any physical wall or Steel-type that could give it troubles, unlike Slaking. All that Slaking would have over Kyurem-B is a SR neutrality and the ability to use a Bulk Up + Slack Off set, which imo wouldn't be enough to make Slaking OU, but Slaking would definitely be OU viable without Truant.

 

[ShootingStarmie]

Why is everyone acting as if 2HKOing the entire metagame is a big deal? With have so many Pokemon that can do this, but are they broken or top tier threats? No. Slaking can 2HKO the metagame, doesn't mean it will. It requires insane prediction skills, and locking yourself into any of these moves (Fire Punch, Return, EQ, etc) is just asking to be set up on. Stop acting as if Slaking being able to 2HKO the entire metagame is going to break the metagame. It just won't

Also, regarding about Slaking's bulk, I'll give you that it's very bulky, but I did say it's on par with most of the threats I mentioned (which it is), and Slaking's base 100 speed is okay, but falls short of the 108 speed tier which many assume to be the line for offensive Pokemon (without a boosting move).

 

[Chou Toshio]

Stop acting as if Slaking being able to 2HKO the entire metagame is going to break the metagame. It just won't

When did we start talking about Slaking breaking the metagame? I thought you were arguing that it would be BL-- lower than threats like Metagross, Vaporeon, and Gastrodon.

Think about this:
-Fire Punch 2HKO's every Steel type in OU except for Heatran.
-Fire Punch also has a 43% chance to OHKO Gengar
-Heatran, Tyranitar, and Terrakion all are 2HKO'd by CB Double Edge for most of their sets
-Jellicent has a 46.88% chance to be 2HKO'd by EQ, and is always 2HKO'd with SR.

Therefore, CB Slaking has almost flawless coverage with just 2 moves-- Double Edge + Fire Punch, and DOES have flawless coverage (it can 2HKO literally everything) with just Double Edge, Fire Punch, and EQ. It even has a spot for Pursuit or Sucker Punch in that moveset

So the CB set:
-2HKO's the entire meta with 3 moves
-is the BULKIEST offensive mon, and bulkier than many of the defensive ones, even with 0 defensive evs
-outspeeds all defensive mons, and several of the offensive ones
-Can use PRIORITY or TRAP


Plus there's the potential for all the OTHER sets.

It can troll with all sorts of defensive/semi-defensive sets-- it has Slack Off, Bulk Up, Taunt, Substitute, Encore, and Roar.

It also has 95 Special attack (same as TTar), in addition to Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Thunderbolt, Thunder, Ice Beam, and Shadow Ball.

Plus, it is physically bulkier than Cresselia, and almost as bulky as Lugia.

252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Slaking: 232-274 (46.03 - 54.36%) -- 55.08% chance to 2HKO

252+ Atk Choice Band Ho-Oh Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Lugia: 195-229 (46.87 - 55.04%) -- 11.72% chance to 2HKO

You guys really think this will be BL?