Eh...? MegaVolcarona?
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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)
- Thread starter GCSChris
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Eh...? MegaVolcarona?
I dont see thick fat venusaur being that powerful... Just remember stuff like cottonelle that seemed great at first but overall was just mediocre and ineffective. the only megas I seen thus far that catch my attention are the blaziken and lucario as they already have very good stats . Lucario gets a more useful ability ontop of the increased stats which would make it a huge threat to sweep entire teams if you gave it 3 moves to set up.
I'm not saying Insomnia on Mewtwo is the worst thing ever but lets be real, it isn't gamebreaking by any means. The only pokemon that really even uses sleep in Ubers is Darkrai, who coincidentally has a type advantage against Mewtwo. I'm just saying, hopefully Mega Launcher has a much wider scope than just Water Pulse.
As for MegaVenusaur, I don't think the loss of Lefties would be too huge. Is it unfortunate? Definitely. But Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn manages just fine with Leech Seed, and Venusaur's lack of weaknesses and key resistances are undoubtedly useful. When it comes down to it, I would honestly be fine using Ferro and Venusaur on the same team, just because none of their weaknesses overlap and each of them brings an additional resist (Dragon, Dark, Rock, and Ghost for Ferro; Venusaur has that clutch Fighting resist) to the table.
As for MegaVenusaur, I don't think the loss of Lefties would be too huge. Is it unfortunate? Definitely. But Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn manages just fine with Leech Seed, and Venusaur's lack of weaknesses and key resistances are undoubtedly useful. When it comes down to it, I would honestly be fine using Ferro and Venusaur on the same team, just because none of their weaknesses overlap and each of them brings an additional resist (Dragon, Dark, Rock, and Ghost for Ferro; Venusaur has that clutch Fighting resist) to the table.
Darkrai already fares poorly against Mewtwo thanks to Aura Sphere and how frail he is. He really can only switch in on Psystrike/any other non-attacking move, but he still needs a Scarf to outspeed.
blaziken has piss poor defenses and walled to hell and back by the gira forms and this is with sun + LO. Unless mega blaze gets a humongous attack boost that is equal or greater than LO's increase, it won't be good. Its current base speed is fine since at +1 you pretty much outspeed all non scarfers that are under base 125 speed none of which can switch into blaze since unlike ou, ubers has much slower mons. If blaziken somehow gets some move to hit gira then LO would still be the preferred item. I agree completely with megavena though.
megamewtwo doesn't gain anything against darkrai. Mewtwo should never be your sleep fodder and if it's mewtwo vs darkrai 1v1 mewtwo outspeeds and can just ohko with aura sphere so that's pretty moot. Megavena lacks resistances which is what would supposedly make it inferior to ferro though that has yet to be seen.
derp never mind me
But wait a sec Venusaur has Synthesis. Not a perfect reliable recovery move becaus ehe's meant to counter rain, but still, don't write him off. Leech Seed + Synthesis is pretty great to keep him going for a while, add a decently strong Giga Drain to the mix and you'll be sure that Venusaur gets to wall like he wants to.
As others have already pointed out, MegaVenusaur won't become a good wall, unless it gets reliable recovery. Yeah sure, it will have very good special bulk but it will still be 3HKOed by strong rain-boosted attacks which means that it can only switch in once against them. Not to mention that Scald would just destroy this Pokemon, as it would be losing 25% of health every time it switches in (burn and SR). So yeah, a bulky Grass-type that can't even switch into bulky Water-types. Leech Seed can not even remotely compensate for this, as you will only get two turns of Leech Seed healing at best, only if you have Protect (Leech Seed as check/counter comes in, then Protect IF the opponent has no set up moves) and if the opponent doesn't have a Grass-type able to switch into Venusaur. It will also eat up your MegaEvolution slot, making it even harder to justify using over other blatantly better MegaEvolutions.
I think MegaCharizard has the biggest potential out of the three starters. Reliable recovery is huge for a weather inducer, even for a frail one. MegaCharizard will also be packing a good punch with the ability to nearly OHKO 252 HP Politoed with Solarbeam (assuming 130 SpA) after SR, provided you MEvolve as it switches in. Having Focus Blast to say a big fuck you to Tyranitar doesn't hurt either. It's just that damn SR weakness that will make sun teams even more risk/reward-based strategies. Manage to keep SR off the field and you have a monster team in your hands with a very potent inducer as well, but fail to do so and have fun trying to bring up your weather again.
I am sure that the trend of powerful offensive MEvos will start to get tiring so i would really like to see a kickass defensive MEvo that would actually be truly worth using. Unfortunately, this isn't the most easy thing to do when this defensive Pokemon won't have Leftovers, so i am really hoping for an ability such as Regenerator or reliable healing on the moveset of this MEvo. I am still having my fingers crossed for MegaVenusaur to get reliable healing, as i don't think that GF is stupid enough to think that it would be worth using otherwise, but i doubt it.
I think MegaCharizard has the biggest potential out of the three starters. Reliable recovery is huge for a weather inducer, even for a frail one. MegaCharizard will also be packing a good punch with the ability to nearly OHKO 252 HP Politoed with Solarbeam (assuming 130 SpA) after SR, provided you MEvolve as it switches in. Having Focus Blast to say a big fuck you to Tyranitar doesn't hurt either. It's just that damn SR weakness that will make sun teams even more risk/reward-based strategies. Manage to keep SR off the field and you have a monster team in your hands with a very potent inducer as well, but fail to do so and have fun trying to bring up your weather again.
I am sure that the trend of powerful offensive MEvos will start to get tiring so i would really like to see a kickass defensive MEvo that would actually be truly worth using. Unfortunately, this isn't the most easy thing to do when this defensive Pokemon won't have Leftovers, so i am really hoping for an ability such as Regenerator or reliable healing on the moveset of this MEvo. I am still having my fingers crossed for MegaVenusaur to get reliable healing, as i don't think that GF is stupid enough to think that it would be worth using otherwise, but i doubt it.
Haven't read through the thread much so sorry if this has been posted.
Wouldn't MegaZard make a better late game cleaner? I mean think, you've taken out Toad or Ttar, no SR, the opponent has 3-5 mons left and they're weakened and BAM, out comes Zard, MegaEvos and cleans house. Other than SR priority such as ESpeed and Aqua Jet hurt but in the sun the latter is less a concern.
Wouldn't MegaZard make a better late game cleaner? I mean think, you've taken out Toad or Ttar, no SR, the opponent has 3-5 mons left and they're weakened and BAM, out comes Zard, MegaEvos and cleans house. Other than SR priority such as ESpeed and Aqua Jet hurt but in the sun the latter is less a concern.
Sunny Day Megasaur might be an idea. Weaken the STABs while simultaneously giving your recovery a huge boost. If Megasaur's SpD would become, say, base 120, he'd be able to wall pretty much every Hydro Pump reliably except for maybe Specs Keldeo, in which case he would have to run full SpD in order to not be 2HKO'd after SR. Then again, Keldeo4ubers and we're done. He'd be a great tool to win weather wars with by countering rain while preserving sun. Only problem would be that he'd have to be a dedicated wall, in which case Chlorophyll sweeping before becoming a wall isn't really a great option. idk man I hope this guy will become good anyways.
Great post, just wanted to point out that the first time it switches in it will be regular Venusaur, so that definitely is a factor because of it's lesser bulk. Plus we don't know if MegaEvolution will revert on switching, so that would hinder saur's defensive prowess as well.
Another huge factor is how you're only allowed one megamon which I think is important to note. ATM only megakanga, megamawile and megaluca seem good. Megamawile for having excellent coverage with iron head, sucker punch, elem punches ontop of a sky high 538 attack but it seems hindered by dwindling speed but its nothing para support won't help with. Megaluca will almost always get the SpA boost judging from what happened during the gene era but it'll still have nice attack. Megakanga depends entirely on the baby works.
You're confusing Adaptability with Download.
Moreover, most Pokemon give a SpDef boost.
You're forgetting that amoonguss also learns synthesis, it just doesn't use it often because regenerator is good enough. And as you said, leech seed and synthesis aren't exactly reliable recovery options, especially when you're supposed to deal with rain. Thick fat+earthquake for heatran is the only reason to use it over amoonguss defensively.
Amoonguss has less than 10% more bulk than regular Venusaur... Mega Venusaur will be way better than it from stats alone.
I wouldn't say way better...Venusaur may miss that Leftovers/Black Sludge recovery every turn, and doesn't get access to Regenerator.
But who knows, perhaps the stats will be impressive. But you certainly wouldn't want to use Megasaur under the sun as much, as it would nullify one half of Thick Fat's benefits.
It's not that MegaVenusaur is less effective because it cripples the Fire side of Thick Fat, it's that Chlorosaur is so fucking good that you're wasting Sun Offense's best sweeper in a defensive roll.
EDIT: I am no implying that MegaVenusaur is a bad defensive Pokemon. I'm saying that Chlorosaur is that good that to use MegaVenusaur (who is shaping up to be a defensive juggernaut) on a Sun team (except Sun Stall, but I'd say Chlorosaur has an edge even then with mindbogglingly SubSeed) when you could be using one of the best sweepers in the game is a very poor choice.
EDIT: I am no implying that MegaVenusaur is a bad defensive Pokemon. I'm saying that Chlorosaur is that good that to use MegaVenusaur (who is shaping up to be a defensive juggernaut) on a Sun team (except Sun Stall, but I'd say Chlorosaur has an edge even then with mindbogglingly SubSeed) when you could be using one of the best sweepers in the game is a very poor choice.
Something I realised about Kangakhskan. ( I can't really spell that.) Will it be able to double Roar?
For example, let's say you have Rocks and 3 layers of Spikes on the field. Let's assume a Chansey is on the field. You Roar Chansey out, and in comes Terrakion. He takes about 30% damage from entry hazards, and Parental Bond kicks in and Roars Terrakion out back into Chansey, who takes 37% from entry hazards. I wonder how this would work?
For example, let's say you have Rocks and 3 layers of Spikes on the field. Let's assume a Chansey is on the field. You Roar Chansey out, and in comes Terrakion. He takes about 30% damage from entry hazards, and Parental Bond kicks in and Roars Terrakion out back into Chansey, who takes 37% from entry hazards. I wonder how this would work?
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That's been discussed a bit, but not to its full extent, I believe. Circle throw and roar would be amazing on spikes-stacking teams, and things like spite could potentially become viable. Looking at his moves, however, I don't see many creative options besides the attacks like sucker punch or return.
Interesting moves:
Circe Throw/Roar- Potentially phaze twice?
Spite- Deducts 8 PP from the last used move. Can remove all PP of things like Gyro ball and Draco meteor immediately
Any attacking move (Notably stabs, sucker punch, and Fake Out)- Possibly attack twice?
Helping Hand (For doubles)- 125% Boost to teammate?
Icy wind/Bulldoze- Sharply reduces opponent's speed
Stomp/rock slide- 52% chance of flinch?
Counter- Deal double HP lost?
That's all I can think of for now.
Double Endeavor?
Interesting moves:
Circe Throw/Roar- Potentially phaze twice?
Spite- Deducts 8 PP from the last used move. Can remove all PP of things like Gyro ball and Draco meteor immediately
Any attacking move (Notably stabs, sucker punch, and Fake Out)- Possibly attack twice?
Helping Hand (For doubles)- 125% Boost to teammate?
Icy wind/Bulldoze- Sharply reduces opponent's speed
Stomp/rock slide- 52% chance of flinch?
Counter- Deal double HP lost?
That's all I can think of for now.
But sweepers are disgusting and should never ever be considered for serious competitive play. THE STALL GOD HAS SPOKEN!
In all honesty though, if I get to choose between a sweeper set that is better and a wall that is less good I will still choose the wall if it's good enough. Sweeping has never really done the trick for me tbh.
Also, Seed + Synth may not be that great, but remember that Ferrothorn, the mon that we've been comparing Megasaur with a lot, uses only Leech Seed + lefties for recovery, and where is he on the usage stats again? Really, it's not like Megasaur is as easy to take down as some may be implying. He will definitely outclass Amoonguss in almost every way aside from not having Spore and Regenrator (but Sleep Powder is still quite good and I'm willing to sacrifice Regenerator for 2 weaknesses less, more bulk and better offensive prowess)
T - T Blastoise.
Yes. Probably every fully-evolved Pokemon will get a Mega Evolution, I speculate (even Delibird).
My two issues, which have been broached at length, but I will reiterate for posterity, with Mega Pokemon:
1. It takes a turn to activate
2. You don't have an item
Both, in tandem, almost certainly compromise the strategic viability of a Mega Pokemon. The fact that you can only have one also mitigates their usability; the only ones I think are of particularly good use are MegaMewtwo and MegaLucario, the one because of absurdly high Special Attack, and the other because of (probably) Base 140 Attack + STAB/Adaptability Close Combat. The prospect of MegaMawile is indeed high, but again I'm worried about the use of a turn. Does Mega Evolving have priority? If not, then MegaMawile will be in serious trouble, one Fire Blast/STAB Earth Power/STAB EQ and he's down to red, so you have to play your cards right. His severe Attack is undermined by his lacking Speed, since he needs both to be a contender, I think (Sucker Punch would give him an edge, but not an impressive enough one).
The two mentioned above (MegaMewtwo, MegaLuke) are probably the best on paper, but I would also give honorable mention to MegaBlaziken, because it will probably have around Base 130 Attack, with Speed Boost it will be a veritable sweeper. Also MegaBlastoise, whose Hydro Pump may very well be on par with Haxorus's Outrage in damage output thanks to Mega Launcher, is wortyh of attention, but his new ability falls well within the field of gimmick, as Hydro Pump will be his only good "pulse" attack - other than.... Water Pulse? Flash Cannon? The latter will be better offensively because of the new type, but come on. I'm not terribly amused.
At this point, we don't really know enough to make any real speculation about what kind of impact these new Pokemon will have in the competitive sphere. I have a feeling that they may, in the end, be a wasted slot on any team, because their only purpose is to come in there and scare the s*** out of your opponent, but then end up falling from one or two attacks. They're almost like the Pokemon equivalent of Final Smashes from SSBB - some Pokemon get better ones than others, but no one will end up using them (for one reason or another). tl;dr: if a Mega Pokemon has low Speed, don't use it.
Uhh, they don't take a turn. You can mega evolve and attack on the same turn; priority remains a question in the case of things like Mawile, where the base Pokémon isn't actually any good on its own, but anything that isn't comically slow and ridiculously fragile will be able to handle itself just fine if the buff is actually large enough to warrant your item slot, either way.
Megamewtwo hasn't been confirmed for any stat increase though at the moment it gets a not so useful ability and it gains nothing since it already beats the one mon that insomnia is useful for.
Megamawile is the shizzz, that coverage, dat base attack.
Megablaziken will be shit. Anything it can do, LO blaze can do better.
Megakanga could also be good depending on how the baby works.
Megaluca seems alright.
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