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Other Looking Ahead to Gen VI Mark II (SEE POSTS #818 & #858)
- Thread starter GCSChris
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Hey guys Im not sure if this question has already been answered, but can someone please explain if or how the MegaEvolutions will be used in competitive battling? My guess is that they will only be allowed for the in-game experience.
They can be used in wifi battles.
With the weather and Hydro Pump nerf, their giving OU players all they've ever asked for. Oh, how they shall regret it. In all seriousness, I wonder what moves Heracross can use for Skill Link, cause I can't think of any. Will he get a new Bug-type or Fighting-type Skill Link move? I also wonder how much more viable Pinsir will be? SR won't be a huge problem with that button, but I can't see it going up to OU.
125 BP pin missile!!!
Unfortunately Heracross doesn't learn Pin Missle. This is checking Gen 5 PO so I don't know if it learns it in Gen 6. The multi-hit move it does know is: Fury Attack.
Let's hope it gets Pin Missile/Fighting-type multi hit move.
What's the weather nerf? Asked in the simple questions thread but didn't get a definitive answer. Or is it not confirmed yet?
Weather abilities last only five turns now (and I think ten turns if you hold a weather rock, though this hasn't been tested yet to my knowledge)
Heliolisk is gonna be amazing. Immune to water/ghost, learns surf, 120 spatk and 120 speed. Consider yourself (for the most part) replaced, Jolteon.
Aegislash (Leftovers)
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- King's Shield
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head
While 2 set up moves and 2 attacking moves might seem gimmicky, Aegislash is probably the only mon that could pull it off. King's Shield acts like protect and reduces the user's Attack. With its amazing 150 SpD and Def, Aegislash can stay in Shield Forme and use Swords Dance at least once, if not twice, while using King's Shield in between if the opponent is a Physical Attacker. After two turns of set up, Aegislash becomes an Uber-level threat. Stance Change switches its Def and Attack, sure, but there's always King's Shield to cover for incoming Physical Attacks. I'm guessing Aegislash will be OU this gen.
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 SpD
Adamant Nature
- King's Shield
- Swords Dance
- Sacred Sword
- Iron Head
While 2 set up moves and 2 attacking moves might seem gimmicky, Aegislash is probably the only mon that could pull it off. King's Shield acts like protect and reduces the user's Attack. With its amazing 150 SpD and Def, Aegislash can stay in Shield Forme and use Swords Dance at least once, if not twice, while using King's Shield in between if the opponent is a Physical Attacker. After two turns of set up, Aegislash becomes an Uber-level threat. Stance Change switches its Def and Attack, sure, but there's always King's Shield to cover for incoming Physical Attacks. I'm guessing Aegislash will be OU this gen.
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Was discussing Mega Mewtwo X with a few buddies on Facebook, I feel that it will definitely have a place in ubers. Most significant is that Scizor and Genesect are no longer as great checks due to Bug neutrality at the cost of special sets being less viable due to the loss of LO/Lefties, but I counter that Mewtwo can get similar coverage on the physical side with a smaller gap in power due to nerfs to Ice Beam, Fire Blast, and Aura Sphere. BST difference makes up for not having LO/CB, I prefer the mega stone to the recoil penalty or lock-in. I will try something like Bulk Up / Drain Punch / Ice Punch / Psystrike (you can game Psycho Cut/Zen Headbutt if you like but I prefer to go with the safer option, I am also unaware of any movepool additions so I'm strictly going by Gen 5 movepool, don't yell at me if he has better STABs now). Obviously you have other options like EQ, other elemental punches, Aqua Tail for rain teams, or Substitute ad nauseum but the above is what I feel would have the best coverage and is similar to special sets currently being run. Not sure what the calcs look like for Drain Punch w/ Bulk Up to completely replace Recover/Lefties for sustain but while it may not get as widespread use as Xerneas, I wouldn't discredit Mega Mewtwo X as a threat because he/she has tons of positives to work with imo.
I think Aegislash is one of the coolest mons of this generation and I think there will be some great strategies formed around him, but I don't think he's as big of a threat as people say he is. His issue is a meager 60 Speed, which leaves him vulnerable to Taunt in Shield Mode and fast attacks in Sword Mode. Despite the epicness of the transformation, I think it will be more useful as a wall/bully pivot, especially with King's Shield.
Heliolisk could be very cool. I see him primarily as a Rain counter, absorbing water-type moves and resisting Thunders and Hurricanes, responding with Surf and accurate Thunders of his own.
I think a Sand+ Dark Aura team could kick ass in Ubers, so I'm trying to get that to work in the beta. Assault Vest sounds incredible, and Yveltal is great. I'm running a LO set, but I might switch it to scarf.
Heliolisk could be very cool. I see him primarily as a Rain counter, absorbing water-type moves and resisting Thunders and Hurricanes, responding with Surf and accurate Thunders of his own.
I think a Sand+ Dark Aura team could kick ass in Ubers, so I'm trying to get that to work in the beta. Assault Vest sounds incredible, and Yveltal is great. I'm running a LO set, but I might switch it to scarf.
Let me help you with that:
Aegislash @ Leftovers
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Spd (speed creep other aegislashes)
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- King's Shield
- Shadow Sneak
- Sacred Sword / Iron Head
You really want Shadow Sneak on there. A STAB priority move coming off of base 150 attack that hits virtually evry pokemon neutrally outside of never used normal types/dark types? Yes please. Shadow Sneak allows it to easily dispatch things that might be faster than it, especially after a Swords Dance Boost. Unless an opposing offensive team is carrying a Heliolisk, you can just go to town boosting in defensive form and killing faster pokes with Shadow Sneak. Iron Head / Sacred Sword both net you pretty good coverage, but Shadow Sneak is not enough to break past certain Steel-types. Pretty the rule of thumb is Sacred Sword for Steel's - Iron Head for Fairies. Aergislash grabs SD boosts so damn easily in defensive form. BTW you should go for HP EV's first because that is what contributes to it more overall defensively.
I can totally see this thing being top tier OU material. We haven't got all the info yet on his moveset, but something like King's Shield - Willo-Wisp - Shadow Ball - Pain Split (if it gets it) i can see being totally possible as a defensive set. The opponent will have to deal with an amazing wall and 150 base SpA Shadow Balls.
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I dunno man, if you don't take Sacred Sword Pyroar destroys it. However, Pyroar probably won't have much presence in the OU metagame so maybe there's nothing to worry about. Tyranitar will also destroy it and it even has pursuit. I think Aegislash will likely always wanna take Sacred Sword. Definitely seems like a really awesome Pokemon though. :)
Edit: I forgot how good he is against physical attackers. Maybe regular TTar sets won't be as good against him as I thought lol.
Edit: I forgot how good he is against physical attackers. Maybe regular TTar sets won't be as good against him as I thought lol.
First, you should max out HP, not SpD. Aegislash has much lower HP than SpD and thus benefits much more by investing in HP. Second, i don't think that a Swords Dance + King's Shield is going to be really good. No matter what two attacking moves you use (Shadow Sneak + Iron Head, Shadow Sneak + Sacred Sword, Iron Head + Sacred Sword), Keldeo, Garchomp, Landorus-T, Tentacruel, Politoed, Rotom-W, Volcarona, Ninetales, and Skarmory all switch into you easily and either KO you, threaten with status (Scald and WoW), or phaze while taking almost no damage (Skarmory). And of 'course, each two move combo has its own extra checks. Iron Head + Shadow Sneak is an invite to Heatran and Ferrothorn, Iron Head + Sacred Sword allows Starmie, Jellicent, and Thundurus-T to switch into you easily, and lastly, Shadow Sneak + Sacred Sword is not checked by anything extra, but lacks immediate power, with its strongest move being an unSTABed 90 BP move. And all those are the counters. Anything offensive that can take a +2 Shadow Sneak will probably OHKO back, as it will attack Aegishield's weak defenses (60 / 60 / 60), making for a huge list of checks.
So, instead of trying to make a Pokemon with 60 base Speed a sweeper, i think that this Pokemon should be better used as a typical defensive Ghost with an extra gimmick added to the mix in the form of Stance Change. Assuming Aegishield gets Pain Split and WoW, and that those two moves activate the Defense Forme, i think the most viable sets would be WoW, Pain Split, and any of Iron Head, Shadow Sneak, and Sacred Sword in the last two slots, with either a tankish 252 HP / 252 Atk Adamant spread, or a more passive 252 HP / 252 Def+ or 252 SpD spread (or any spread between those two really), with Lefties on both sets. Aegishield's advantage over other defensive Pokemon is that it can hit back insanely hard, and its advantage over other tankish Pokemon is that it has huge mixed defenses, giving it an edge over both. It will be able to take a hit from a threatening attacker, and either burn it, OHKO it (or 2HKO it with Shadow Sneak), or use Pain Split + Shadow Sneak to take it down, and all this without getting his weaker defenses exposed. After it has done its job, it can simply switch out and revert back to Defense form, and come back again whenever its needed again. For example let's take a set with 252 HP / 156 Atk / 100 SpD+, Leftovers, and a moveset of WoW / Pain Split / Iron Head / Shadow Sneak and see how it fares against some offensive Pokemon:
- 252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 100+ SpD Aegislash: 126-149 (38.88 - 45.98%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock.
- +2 252 Atk Rock Gem Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 171-201 (52.77 - 62.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- +2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Scizor Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 138-163 (42.59 - 50.3%) -- 1.95% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
- 252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Hidden Power Fire vs. 252 HP / 136+ SpD Aegislash: 114-136 (35.18 - 41.97%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
Those are just some examples to showcase how i think that Aegislash would be played, and seeing how i have made quite a bit of assumptions take it with a grain of salt...
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Guys, with this new weather nerf do you think Excadrill will still be broken in OU?
I dunno. It only gets 3 turns to sweep after switching in and using Swords Dance, and even then good players will predict the switch thanks to team preview and double switch in a counter or something with Thunder Wave Will-O-Wisp Roar etc. It can still destroy unprepared teams I'm sure and might be able to do a bit more if you give Hippo/Ttar a weather rock item though I really can't predict atm whether (or should I say weather LOL AMIRITE GUYS???) that will be worth it or not.
I personally predict it will be OU.
I personally predict it will be OU.
Our royal rapier friend is very interesting imo. It's extremely versatile, capable of an extremely unique Bulky Swords Dancing set with it's King's Shield attack. He may not be as good as we may think though. There are two points that make it worse than we think.
1. Mispredictions. For any Pokemon, a misprediction can cost the sweep or kill, but with Aegislash, you must know your opponent well to succeed. Let's say that it's a Bulky SD Aegislash that DineshThePoet created and ThePillsburyDoughBoy edited, versus a SubCM Latias. Rain is up. You are in Shield Form. You are at low health. You want to kill it while you die. This isn't at all reasonable, I know, but let's say you think Latias is going to set up CM on you, and you think it's a good time to strike. You think while it's setting up you can smack it with a Shadow Sneak. You go ahead and Shadow Sneak, revert to your Sword Form, and it doesn't KO. However, Latias attacks you with a Hidden Power Fire after you hit it, and you get KO'ed, causing you to lose your sweeper. These random stat changes make it futile to dish out hits and survive other when going from Shield to Sword, and you can't hit them, but you can tank the hits, etc. You can have one (well, two if you count the Special counterpart), but you can't have the other. Yes, they're huge stats, and King's Shield kind of off-puts it, but the other stats are so meager and frail. This also makes it impossible to create sets that use the secondary stats used to assist the first (such as a Tank)
2. Horrible, HORRIBLE Speed. This is even worse for a Pokemon that can't take advantage of it's bulk while attacking, and can't use it to tank moves while defending either. Yes, there's Trick Room, but with Aegislash's problems I said last point, it's lack of bulk when attacking compared to other TR Sweepers such as Reuniclus and Rhyperior is very off-putting. The power (and bulk when switching in from a setter), is very nice. The fact that many victims of Trick Room teams are often OHKO'ed is even better. Aegislash's stats reflect this perfectly.
I didn't really make that much note of King's Shield, but I may make note of it in another post. Tell me what you think!
1. Mispredictions. For any Pokemon, a misprediction can cost the sweep or kill, but with Aegislash, you must know your opponent well to succeed. Let's say that it's a Bulky SD Aegislash that DineshThePoet created and ThePillsburyDoughBoy edited, versus a SubCM Latias. Rain is up. You are in Shield Form. You are at low health. You want to kill it while you die. This isn't at all reasonable, I know, but let's say you think Latias is going to set up CM on you, and you think it's a good time to strike. You think while it's setting up you can smack it with a Shadow Sneak. You go ahead and Shadow Sneak, revert to your Sword Form, and it doesn't KO. However, Latias attacks you with a Hidden Power Fire after you hit it, and you get KO'ed, causing you to lose your sweeper. These random stat changes make it futile to dish out hits and survive other when going from Shield to Sword, and you can't hit them, but you can tank the hits, etc. You can have one (well, two if you count the Special counterpart), but you can't have the other. Yes, they're huge stats, and King's Shield kind of off-puts it, but the other stats are so meager and frail. This also makes it impossible to create sets that use the secondary stats used to assist the first (such as a Tank)
2. Horrible, HORRIBLE Speed. This is even worse for a Pokemon that can't take advantage of it's bulk while attacking, and can't use it to tank moves while defending either. Yes, there's Trick Room, but with Aegislash's problems I said last point, it's lack of bulk when attacking compared to other TR Sweepers such as Reuniclus and Rhyperior is very off-putting. The power (and bulk when switching in from a setter), is very nice. The fact that many victims of Trick Room teams are often OHKO'ed is even better. Aegislash's stats reflect this perfectly.
I didn't really make that much note of King's Shield, but I may make note of it in another post. Tell me what you think!
Sorry, double post. I suspect it will be akin to Trick Room's effectiveness if you think about it.
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