Xerneas

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Perseu said:
Any calcs with scizor switching in geomancy? How about metagross doing so? We already know this sucker gets psyshock, so poison-ceus might not be a nice answer... Who will ever force this out? Coz kyogre and normal arceus we could be forcing it out many times, but this one seems kinda impossible.
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252/252+ Scizor @ Assault Vest takes
Moonblast: 36.04 - 42.73%
Focus Blast: 46.51 - 54.94%
And deals 43.14 - 51.77% in return with BP, which means it actually has a chance to beat Xerneas one-on-one (like about 7.42% chance)

252/252+ Metagross @ Assault Vest takes
Moonblast: 31.59 - 37.36%
Focus Blast: 40.93 - 48.35%

Although if you really want something that can is a sure counter, meet

252/252+ Victini @ Assault Vest
Moon Blast: 26.73 - 31.43%
Focus Blast: 17.07 - 20.29%
Psyshock: 23.76 - 27.97%
From there, it can use a 4 Atk V-Create to hit 103.55 - 121.82%
 
Victini is going to be more used in Ubers than in OU. That's saddening.

Honestly, more Ubers teams are going to have to rely on phasing the thing or OHKOing it. Can Ghost Arceus take the thing?
 
4 Atk Victini V-create vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Xerneas in sun: 306-360 (77.86 - 91.6%)

I think the calc lists Xerneas as being weak to Fire. Xerneas is not actually weak to Fire, for the record.
 
-Manaphy-- said:
That seems a little too much with no investment... I'm guessing that's with Sun up?
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nope, sun is not up, a super effective V-create from 4 Atk Victini actually hits for 408-480 damage on 4/0 Xerneas

EDIT: Oh I didn't realise Fairy isn't weak to fire. But Victini still can tank hits pretty well by virtue of its type
 
So, can metagross threaten it with meteor mash? We need to remember that xerneas will be running lots of HP EVs because geomancy already makes him very fast.

The scenario would be:
Pokemon switches into Xerneas!
Xerneas used ubermancy!
---
Now it outspeeds pretty much everything and hits like a boss, with a very nice bulk.Would this mean xerneas will always neat a K.O.?
 
From personal experience, I've found that it's impossible to reliably OHKO Delphox with ANY +2 move on Xerneas (I'm running a max SP ATK Modest set). Obviously this isn't going to matter much in Ubers, but if you encounter a Xerneas user in random Battle Spot battles (you will) this is an easy way for anyone who picked Fennekin as a starter to at least cripple it with status before it sweeps your team.

Also, note to OP- Xerneas learns Giga Impact at Lv. 88 and Outrage at Lv. 93. Not that either of those moves help it much, but you may as well include them for completeness's sake.
 
Perseu said:
So, can metagross threaten it with meteor mash? We need to remember that xerneas will be running lots of HP EVs because geomancy already makes him very fast.

The scenario would be:
Pokemon switches into Xerneas!
Xerneas used ubermancy!
---
Now it outspeeds pretty much everything and hits like a boss, with a very nice bulk.Would this mean xerneas will always neat a K.O.?
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4 Atk Metagross can actually pretty reliably KO it with Meteor Mash > Bullet Punch, even with HP investments for Xerneas

Vryheid said:
From personal experience, I've found that it's impossible to reliably OHKO Delphox with ANY +2 move on Xerneas (I'm running a max SP ATK Modest set). Obviously this isn't going to matter much in Ubers, but if you encounter a Xerneas user in random Battle Spot battles (you will) this is an easy way for anyone who picked Fennekin as a starter to at least cripple it with status before it sweeps your team.

Also, note to OP- Xerneas learns Giga Impact at Lv. 88 and Outrage at Lv. 93. Not that either of those moves help it much, but you may as well include them for completeness's sake.
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Unless Delphox gets any move that Victini doesn't, Xerneas still manages to muscle past it.

But at the end of the day, I rather save the trouble and run something with Red Card.

Screw Extremekiller, this thing is the new god
 
Soul Fly said:
^As I said, let us pray, no move tutor/TM is bold enough to teach it Earth Power.
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That would change everything... And it's kinda likely, as Earth Power is available on most legendaries...
So how do you check a Xerneas with Geomancy/Moonblast/Earth Power/Psyshock ?
 
Othesemo said:
CB Scizor?
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Well yeah, not OHKOing it, but with priority it works. Is there anything else ? Lugia can maybe take it out...

Edit : I think HP EVs isn't the only option for the Geomancy set.
Defense EV might be a very good idea, as the only way to destroy it after set up is with physical attacks and Xerneas HP base stat is really high, so the HP EVs would not make a huge difference.
Modest with 252SAtk, needed speed EVs (probably around 50/100) and everything else in defense sounds good to me.
 
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Why, because something in Ubers is too powerful? It happens. That's the point of Ubers.

If you don't like an utterly broken metagame, don't play Ubers.
 
escarlata said:
EDIT: WAIT! Did I just find the check for this thing? Just slap Red Card on something, let it die to force Xerneas out. Then it loses its Power Herb. Now you can actually wall it with stuff.
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red card only works if a mon doesn't get ko'd in the process.
 
Uhh, damn this thing is crazy. Heatran can phaze it if Focus Blast misses lol?

Aegislash might be able to do a thing or two against give its Fighting immunity and Fairy resistance. Pain Split, Destiny Bond, etc. Chandelure is in the same boat. Prankster users can cripple it so that it guaranteed won't sweep your whole team at least. Victini could be good against it, though I'm sure after SR damage Xerneas can even KO it with a neutral coverage move. :/ It has more sorta counters but it really depends on what coverage move it runs, 4MSS ftw! Once it's adequately weakened Scizor and Lucario should be able to take care of it no sweat.

The thing that most stands out about Xerneas is that it has to use Power Herb (on its Geomancy sets, I'm sure it has other viable options), that means it literally only gets one shot for greatness. One. It might take one Pokemon down with it guaranteed before it can be stopped, but that's not TOO bad I suppose lol.
 
So realistically how much Speed do you guys think it actually needs to run? Enough to beat Scarf Palkia or maybe Scarf Terrakion would probably be a good set-up.
 
Broken metagame? 5th gen ubers was pretty balanced for an ubers metagame, imo, and even then, it has rules. It seems xerneas will really centralize the meta this gen. I mean, slapping a red card into scizor or wasting a team slot with bronzong... But thats ok, imo, one who cares about ubers, this wouldnt be nice!
 
In practice it needs to be able to run enough speed to be useable before using Geomancy; it's got 99 base Speed, which is certainly enough to batter up Groudon and Dialga before they decide to try denting or paralyzing you. Really no point in investing a high amount of HP into this thing; don't make it a Kingdra!
 
escarlata said:
Dialga still takes a shitload from +2 Focus Blast (71.78 - 84.65%) with Assault Vest and 252/200, but even 56 Atk Iron Tail cannot OHKO Xerneas in return

So hard to find a check for this thing. I guess the most reliable so far should be Red Card. About time it gets some use

EDIT: WAIT! Did I just find the check for this thing? Just slap Red Card on something, let it die to force Xerneas out. Then it loses its Power Herb. Now you can actually wall it with stuff.
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You don't need to deal 100% damage to OHKO it, as it will most likely have taken SR + previous damage to setup. Also, even if it gets past Dialga, priority users such as ES Normalceus, Shadow Sneak Gira-0, and Bullet Punch Scizor will be able to pick it off. Also, iirc Red Card doesn't work if you get OHKOed.

The biggest effect that Xerneas will have in Ubers is, imo, that Pokemon that can't prevent it from setting up or at least do some decent damage back (~30% damage or something like this) will fall in usage.

Oh and why did you use normal Scizor in your calcs? Mega Scizor always avoids the OHKO from +2 Modest Focus Blaast after SR with the spread you mentioned, and can then setup with SD and OHKO back with Bullet Punch.
 
Yeah the thing is it's base 99 Speed already let's it outspeed pretty much all Stally Pokemon in the tier without Speed creeping, so the question becomes if you want to outspeed stuff like Kyurem-W without setting up or using the extra EV's to make it bulkier.
You don't need to deal 100% damage to OHKO it, as it will most likely have taken SR + previous damage to setup. Also, even if it gets past Dialga, priority users such as ES Normalceus, Shadow Sneak Gira-0, and Bullet Punch Scizor will be able to pick it off. Also, iirc Red Card doesn't work if you get OHKOed.
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Priority will obviously be the best way to deal with a really weakened one but a Xerneas at good health will still be able to take an Espeed / SS.
 
This thing is definitely a massive threat, probably Kyogre and EKiller Arceus-level threatening. With +2 SpA, Modest, and its powerful STAB Moonblast (which is 123.5 BP before STAB if Fairy Aura is at least a 30% boost) it OHKOes stuff like crazy. That being said, checking it is not impossible. Ho-Oh without SR, full health SpD Kyogre (which is more viable thanks to no more sleep reset), SpD Jirachi, Scizor, Bronzong, Assault Vest Metagross, Aegislash, Pink Blobs, Ferrothorn and Excadrill (if it forgoes Focus Blast), Steel/Poison Arceus, lesser used Steels such as Escavalier, and Lugia w/ Multiscale can all check it, as can priority from stuff like EKiller and Rayquaza. Xerneas also only has one chance to setup, so if its sweeping attempt is botched, you're more or less safe from its wrath.

The mixed set is also pretty interesting and it looks like it could really tear stall apart if it lacks Arceus-Poison or something like that.
 
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Holy shit, Xerneas is terrifying. Double quiver dance in an instant and a free 1.3x boost to Moonblast... even Poison Arceus is shatterered. We just might have a new Extremekiller at our hands.

Aegislash was mentioned before, but notably it resists all of Moonblast / Psyshock / Focus Blast and 2HKOs with Iron Head+Shadow Sneak. Pray to the gods it doesn't get Earth Power in Pokémon Z.

Probably the biggest thing holding the Geomancy set back is that it's strictly a late-game sweeper, and the Power Herb works only once. If you manage to mess up its set-up, it's much less scary.
 
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