Pokémon Charizard

[X5Dragon]

I've added two sets for CharY, one is a all out special attacker, and another which I will display here with calcs is the trapper set. Feast your eyes:

Charizard@CharizarditeY
Nature: Naive/Mild
EVs: 252 SPA/ 252 Speed/ 4HP

Fire Spin (buffed to 1/8 each turn)
Solar Beam
Focus Blast/Dragon Pulse
Flare Blitz/Fire Blast


* WITHOUT taking into effect Fire Spin initial damage and trapping damage:


0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Amoonguss in sun: 536-632 (124.07 - 146.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey in sun: 397-468 (60.88 - 71.77%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 168 Def Bronzong in sun: 306-362 (90.53 - 107.1%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO
0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Celebi in sun: 404-476 (100 - 117.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 120 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr in sun: 210-247 (55.11 - 64.82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Donphan: 460-542 (119.79 - 141.14%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Charizard Dragon Pulse vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Dragonite: 214-254 (66.25 - 78.63%) -- 25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn in sun: 564-664 (160.22 - 188.63%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Charizard Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Garchomp: 248-292 (69.27 - 81.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 172+ SpD Gastrodon: 540-636 (126.76 - 149.29%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 244 HP / 0 SpD Gliscor: 192-227 (54.54 - 64.48%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Hydreigon: 332-392 (101.84 - 120.24%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 220+ SpD Jellicent: 216-256 (53.46 - 63.36%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Jirachi in sun: 404-476 (100 - 117.82%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. 56 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 332-392 (81.97 - 96.79%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard Dragon Pulse vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 182-216 (50 - 59.34%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone in sun: 356-422 (126.24 - 149.64%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Politoed: 304-358 (79.16 - 93.22%) -- 43.75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard SolarBeam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Terrakion: 330-390 (102.16 - 120.74%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Togekiss in sun: 210-247 (56.14 - 66.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Charizard Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar: 440-520 (108.91 - 128.71%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Zapdos in sun: 229-271 (59.79 - 70.75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Mattman324]

Do you NEED Fire Spin there? I think Dragon Pulse and Fail Blast would work well together.

 

[mrglass]

I've been using a Flame Charge set in Showdown beta and it's worked pretty well:

Mega Charge
Charizard@Charizardite Y
Timid/Modest Nature
Fire Blast
SolarBeam
Dragon Pulse/Air Slash
Flame Charge

Flame Charge puts the boosted attack to good use (even if it is -nature, it's still better on a 104 Atk than an 84 one). I've found that getting an opportunity to boost with Flame Charge isn't too hard given Fire's potency in Drought, and Fire/Flying's nice set of 6 resistances and an immunity force some switches.

Also, I think an all out Sp. Attacker set could work great on a Sticky Web team given Charizard Y's immunity to that Hazard. As it makes Charizard's 100 base speed much better, and reduces the number of potential revenge killers.

I'm curious how a semi-tanking set would work, with mixed investment in HP and Speed, and using DD or Flame Charge as you tank some hits.

Also, I hope Charizard gets Work Up at the very minimum this gen. A Sp. Atk boosting move could be extremely useful.

 

[Thorhammer]

MegaCharizardY I can see as a valuable force for sun teams to win the Weather War, especially with the new mechanics. Rain is up? No problem, Charizard MegaEvolves to bring back the sun, sure it's just five turns with him, but that still turns the match's momentum on your side.

Except the rain is temporary anyway. It's no longer possible to get the same sort of permanent Drizzle that would only end if you brought out your own weather. Ending it faster is nice, but not nearly as big of a deal.

 

[justTDUBBit]

Idk if this has been mentioned before. I think one of the biggest things that is going to hurt the Charizard M-Evos is the fact that once anyone sees Charizard in team preview, they are going to be pretty darn sure nothing else is a M-Evo because Charizard desperately needs its M-Evos to be competitive much more than Aerodactyl, Alakazam, Scizor, Garchomp, *Insert pretty much every other poke with an M-Evo*. I think in this gen, which poke is M-Evo will be akin to revealing your Arceus type in Ubers. And keeping that a secret could win or lose games. Also, Megazard-X is strong, but not any more so than Salamence was (although it could be argued Megazard-X has better typing) and the 4x SR weakness for Megazard-Y will hurt. Enough so that I don't doubt a LO Ice shard from Mamoswine could kill after one SR hit. Also, not having to guess an item will hinder all evos. Will the two M-Evos be banned? I doubt either of them will, (unless they get banned for "overcentralization" because everyone loves Charizard and will want to use them)

 

[Mattman324]

For a sun team, or ANY team with a Charizard, it could very well be a big deal.

 

[Thorhammer]

Idk if this has been mentioned before. I think one of the biggest things that is going to hurt the Charizard M-Evos is the fact that once anyone sees Charizard in team preview, they are going to be pretty darn sure nothing else is a M-Evo because Charizard desperately needs its M-Evos to be competitive much more than Aerodactyl, Alakazam, Scizor, Garchomp, *Insert pretty much every other poke with an M-Evo*. I think in this gen, which poke is M-Evo will be akin to revealing your Arceus type in Ubers. And keeping that a secret could win or lose games. Also, Megazard-X is strong, but not any more so than Salamence was (although it could be argued Megazard-X has better typing) and the 4x SR weakness for Megazard-Y will hurt. Enough so that I don't doubt a LO Ice shard from Mamoswine could kill after one SR hit. Also, not having to guess an item will hinder all evos. Will the two M-Evos be banned? I doubt either of them will, (unless they get banned for "overcentralization" because everyone loves Charizard and will want to use them)

It's only a secret if you've actually got two Pokemon with known Megas on your team in the first place. Keeping your opponent guessing is a nice bonus whenever it's possible, but for most teams, that won't be an issue, so Charizard won't be making them give up anything they already had.

 

[Theorymon]

When it comes to Mega Charizard Y, I'm sorta skeptical about it's viableness in Ubers because of competing with other Mega Pokémon, the 4x Stealth Rock weakness, and Drought being nerfed. Not too sure about OU, though I'd assume the SR weak would hurt it there too!

I think the story changes rather dramatically however, in the Nintendo metagames. Let's say VGC as similar rules to what it has had in the past... In those metagames, Stealth Rock is pretty nonexistent. And since you have another teammate, AND can shutdown opposing weathers after Mega Evolving, I really think that Mega Charizard Y has some serious potential there! As for Battle Spot metagames such 3vs3 singles, triples, and rotations, Stealth Rock is extremely rare there too, so I think it has a chance of thriving there! It also helps that since you can't choose all of your mons in Singles and Doubles, You can arguably run another Mega Evolution that goes against teams Mega Charizard Y doesn't do well in! Also of note, if for any reason Rotations allows mons below level 50 this time, Mega Charizard Y might do a good job of shutting down Aron teams, since Aron was pretty deadly last gen in Rotations!

Just a note, I hear that in free battles, boxart mons like Yveltal and Xerneas are actually allowed. Not sure about rated yet, since the global link is down. Even then though, 3vs3 still makes the metagame WAY faster paced, so it might still have a niche there compared to the slow Groudon after Pokebank is up.

 

[Mattman324]

When it comes to Mega Charizard Y, I'm sorta skeptical about it's viableness in Ubers because of competing with other Mega Pokémon, the 4x Stealth Rock weakness, and Drought being nerfed. Not too sure about OU, though I'd assume the SR weak would hurt it there too!

Then again, we won't be seeing it as much in Ubers where any Sun Team is probably going to favor Groudon and Mega Blaziken.

 

[mrglass]

Why isn't anyone else talking about Sticky Web? IMO it's a huge plus for Charizard Y. Spinners will be a lot more necessary this gen if you have grounded Sweepers, so Charizard will be more useful with support already there.

On top of that, if you sticky web the opposing team, Charizard Y becomes relatively faster due to its immunity. The only other out speeding threats I could think of would be the Latis and Noivern anytime, and Gengar and the Kamis on the revenge kill (neither would like to take a sun boosted fire blast to the face on switch in)

 

[Haruno]

Why isn't anyone else talking about Sticky Web? IMO it's a huge plus for Charizard Y. Spinners will be a lot more necessary this gen if you have grounded Sweepers, so Charizard will be more useful with support already there.

On top of that, if you sticky web the opposing team, Charizard Y becomes relatively faster due to its immunity. The only other out speeding threats I could think of would be the Latis and Noivern anytime, and Gengar and the Kamis on the revenge kill (neither would like to take a sun boosted fire blast to the face on switch in)

Base 102+ scarfers will still exist

 

[Realm]

Charizard X is neutral to fairy types, which is a big plus for it this generation (and it remains neutral to ice as well). It's not just the Dragon typing that's great, it's the combination of Fire/Dragon that makes it really stand out.


I think Rapid Spin teams will do a lot better with Charizard X. He just needs to get set up once to be safe from 50% damage, where as Char Y will need another set up if the opponent sets up SR's again. I think X is more worth the payoff to base the team around. Not having any 4x weaknesses is a big plus for Charizard in general.

Y has drought, but on top of the weather nerf, Charizard Y is still destroyed by the SR controlled Meta game, and in general its type just isn't that great. X can be more of a tank due to it's type and increased def (which is some compensation for its weakness to Dragon/Ground), and makes up for it's lack of a speed boost somewhat (and allows it to more easily get away with using Dragon Dance to rectify this issue). Charizard Y needed the speed boost more than X because of this, but it didn't receive it. As it stands, I think X is the overall more effective sweeper, even if Y can kill things quicker on paper. The only question is Y's use as a Drought provider, but with the weather nerf and it's remaining SR/Rock weakness, I can't see it being better than X overall.

No matter which is better though, X and Y in general both make Charizard a lot better than before and have different purposes, giving Charizard teams a lot of variety now.

 

[Alphanex20]

Base 102+ scarfers will still exist

But not all of them are the hardest thing to counter. Terrakion loses to Gliscor/Lando-T, the Latis lose to Steels/Fairys/Pursuits (which will be worse with TTar, absol, and scizor getting megas), and it isn't hard to predict them either, since water moves are negated by drought and whatnot.

 

[mrglass]

Y has drought, but on top of the weather nerf, Charizard Y is still destroyed by the SR controlled Meta game, and in general its type just isn't that great. X can be more of a tank due to it's type and increased def (which is some compensation for its weakness to Dragon/Ground), and makes up for it's lack of a speed boost somewhat (and allows it to more easily get away with using Dragon Dance to rectify this issue). Charizard Y needed the speed boost more than X because of this, but it didn't receive it. As it stands, I think X is the overall more effective sweeper, even if Y can kill things quicker on paper. The only question is Y's use as a Drought provider, but with the weather nerf and it's remaining SR/Rock weakness, I can't see it being better than X overall.

I feel like Fire/Flying is a really underrated type. It's not great or anything, but it does have some really nice benefits. It's EQ immune, which is really nice for a Fire type, it has 2 4x resistances, it's immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web, and it resists Bullet Punch and Mach Punch. Really, without SR, Fire/Flying is actually really easy to switch in with 6 resistances and an immunity. Again I'm not saying it's a good type, but it's not bad either

 

[Alphanex20]

I feel like Fire/Flying is a really underrated type. It's not great or anything, but it does have some really nice benefits. It's EQ immune, which is really nice for a Fire type, it has 2 4x resistances, it's immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web, and it resists Bullet Punch and Mach Punch. Really, without SR, Fire/Flying is actually really easy to switch in with 6 resistances and an immunity. Again I'm not saying it's a good type, but it's not bad either

And spinning wont be that hard either to remove rocks. Has everyone forgotten that Excadrill exists? 4x resists rock, destroys the (expected) go-to spinblocker in Aegislash (Jellicent hates a +2 EQ and Gengar is easy to smash with Iron Head and (if you have Mold Breaker) EQ). Not to mention you don't always have to bring it in on resistances.

Galvantula and Grenninja People! VoltTurn core that sets up hazards and hits like a truck? Yes please!

 

[Realm]

I feel like Fire/Flying is a really underrated type. It's not great or anything, but it does have some really nice benefits. It's EQ immune, which is really nice for a Fire type, it has 2 4x resistances, it's immune to Spikes, Toxic Spikes, and Sticky Web, and it resists Bullet Punch and Mach Punch. Really, without SR, Fire/Flying is actually really easy to switch in with 6 resistances and an immunity. Again I'm not saying it's a good type, but it's not bad either

Well, I'd say it's an above average type were it not for the 4x rock weakness. I like it mainly for the protection against Ground.

 

[Haruno]

But not all of them are the hardest thing to counter. Terrakion loses to Gliscor/Lando-T, the Latis lose to Steels/Fairys/Pursuits (which will be worse with TTar, absol, and scizor getting megas), and it isn't hard to predict them either, since water moves are negated by drought and whatnot.

Which involves zard switching out and thus losing more life from sr. If anything people are overhyping mega zard more than anything cuz yknow zard is op

 

[Mattman324]

Which involves zard switching out and thus losing more life from sr. If anything people are overhyping mega zard more than anything cuz yknow zard is op

Also because having both forms of Mega Zard to potentially throw around is nice. And because Fire/Dragon is unresisted by anything not named "Heatran" or "Carbink" (the latter of which won't be seen outside of Stall in OU). And because it has a really good movepool (including the EQ that wastes both of those.) And because DROUGHT and Solarbeam.

It's not being overhyped. People know the SR weakness is there, but if you play around it Zard is powerful.

 

[Haruno]

Anything can be played around. And what if your opponent predicts your solar beam and brings in their weather starter? What if heat ran carries air balloon? Etc. it's still being overhyped to death cuz yknow charizard.

 

[Mattman324]

No, it really isn't. What if heatran is carrying an Air Baloon? Then you hit it with Dragon Claw on the switch, outspeed, and kill it with Earthquake (and he has no chance of stopping you because he was holding an Air Baloon and therefore not a Choice Scarf). They predict Solarbeam and bring out their inducer? First, you assume every team will have an inducer, which, unlike Gen5, isn't the case. Second, you KNOW if they have an inducer from team preview, and obviously at that point you don't spam Solarbeam. Thirdly, when I see Lucario or Gengar on a team preview I think "oh, it will probably be a mega", and plan accordingly, because both of them are stopped in the same ways (although sacrifice will be necessary.) With Zard, I KNOW it's a Mega, but that doesn't help - do I keep my physical tank alive, or my special wall? Choose wrong and die!

 

[Realm]

Anything can be played around. And what if your opponent predicts your solar beam and brings in their weather starter? What if heat ran carries air balloon? Etc. it's still being overhyped to death cuz yknow charizard.

The good thing about being Charizard now is that you can't tell which Mega Charizard it's going to use. So the opponent has to make a guess for which Mega you're going for, and making the wrong guess leads to the wrong "counter".

And yes, anything can be played around. The difference is that Charizard, with these mega's, is now more worth playing around. No one is saying it's going to uber, if that's what you're thinking. If you're going to say we're overhyping it, you need to clarify just to what extent you think we're hyping it to in the first place.

 

[I2edShift]

...Etc. it's still being overhyped to death cuz yknow charizard.

Actually, no, it's not. Do you see the stats? Do you see the abilities? CharX is far more rounded in generally viable, but if you can field him, CharY hits like a nuclear warhead with Fire Blast + Drought. Both have solid move pools with the stats/abilities to use them. The major limiting factor is that Terrakion and Scarf users will instantly check/OHKO CharY, because you're limited to 328 speed, which will probably be the standard. Stealth Rock can be played around, as can others. Or like I said, you can just lead with CharY and negate SR. I'm not sure how well it would work (or for how long), but anything switching into CharY is going to get hurt.

 

[GeneralMLD]

The typing on X is just amazing.....making water, ice, and fairy damage neutral. Also no 4x damage to stealth rock. Tough claws is its own personal drought stat booster.

Plus, its dragon, and that alone will make the fans over use this thing right into the OU tier. Might use one myself.

 

[Mattman324]

Plus, its dragon, and that alone will make the fans over use this thing right into the OU tier. Might use one myself.

This is my opinion. It's a dragon with good stats that the fandumb section will like, and they will abuse it mercilessly. However, I note it for it's good things, and use it reasonably for all of its power, and it still works. (Sort of like Gen4 Garchomp and ingame Pikachu)

 

[Haruno]

The typing on X is just amazing.....making water, ice, and fairy damage neutral. Also no 4x damage to stealth rock. Tough claws is its own personal drought stat booster.

Plus, its dragon, and that alone will make the fans over use this thing right into the OU tier. Might use one myself.

getting hit hard by eq hurts. Especially since mons will be forced to carry eq now to deal with aegislash and the likes.