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Pokémon Talonflame

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Talonflame could be a useful utility counter for teams centered around Sticky Web. Two Pokemon with Contrary, Serperior and Malamar, actually get a speed boost from the hazard and potentially become very frustrating sweepers to deal with once they start ratcheting up their attack stats.

Serperior is demolished by either priority Acrobatics or Brave Bird, regardless of how fast it is. It also 4x resists Leaf Storm, giving an easy switch in.

Talonflame has precisely the right speed to outspeed Malamar even after it gets a speed boost, as long as it has equal speed EVs. For instance, Talonflame with 252 speed EVs and a neutral nature has 359 speed, Malamar with the same EVs and a boost has 358. Talonflame resists the obvious Superpower on the switch in and can deal a ton of damage with a x4 effective U-turn.
 
I've been testing out Talonflame pretty interestingly in a Sunny Day set as a Scout. (EVs are pretty similar to those suggested here so I'll not be redundant)
Sunny Day, U-Turn, Brave Bird, and Flare Blitz are my moves and she's been really good at either U-turning out into a counter for their first choice or setting up a free Sunny Day on a 'mon that needs to immediately switch out/set up and then U-turning out or going in for a kill/kamikaze with SD boosted Flare Blitz. I'm hoping to find a new Rapid Spinner that works in an SD team but I'm substituting Torkoal until I can find one.
Drought from Megacharizard Y has been a great U-turn option but having those two on the team further enhances the need for a good Rapid Spinner.
 
I've been running TFlame with
Adamant Nature 252att/speed
Acrobatics w/ flying gem
Flare Blitz
Sword dance
Tailwind
This thing is probably my fav thing this whole gen because I usually bring it in after setting up screens with espeon. Make sure spikes/rocks are down and this thing just dents stuff all over the gaff. When I'm about to die or realise I can't one shot the person then I just use tailwind.
The thing is I need to find someone who can abuse tailwind like come in for a few turns and just abuse the speed to throw down heavy damage everywhere so I might look into mega garchomp when mega gengar gets banned
 
This thing is absoutely monstrous. This is probably the only pokemon that youre forced to actually counter directly, since there are no real checks for it. Rock types like tyranitar , golem (lol) and rhyperior (lol) can take a hit and ko back. Heatran can also take a hit but unless it has hidden power rock, theres nothing it can do other than phaze. Stealth rocks are a good way to make it harder for talonflame to setup. Other than that... eh, nothing really. You could sack something to waste the flying gem, so that another faster (or scarf) mon that resists flying can survive the next acrobatics and revenge kill it, but that means you have to lose a pokemon, and theres always the possibilty of talonflame killing it with flare blitz and preserve the flying gem. Definitely looking foward to abuse this one.
 
SmashBrosBrawl said:
This thing is absoutely monstrous. This is probably the only pokemon that youre forced to actually counter directly, since there are no real checks for it. Rock types like tyranitar , golem (lol) and rhyperior (lol) can take a hit and ko back. Heatran can also take a hit but unless it has hidden power rock, theres nothing it can do other than phaze. Stealth rocks are a good way to make it harder for talonflame to setup. Other than that... eh, nothing really. You could sack something to waste the flying gem, so that another faster (or scarf) mon that resists flying can survive the next acrobatics and revenge kill it, but that means you have to lose a pokemon, and theres always the possibilty of talonflame killing it with flare blitz and preserve the flying gem. Definitely looking foward to abuse this one.
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I have no doubt it's a good Pokemon but you might be exaggerating a tad it has lots of checks and counters judging from the low attacking stats alone.
 
A Fhaol Bhig said:
I have no doubt it's a good Pokemon but you might be exaggerating a tad it has lots of checks and counters judging from the low attacking stats alone.
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+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 204-240 (84.29 - 99.17%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Jirachi cant ko you and gets mauled by flare blitz. Every other scarfer is koed. There are no checks, your only option is sacking something to waste the flying gem, and then sending in a scarfer that resists flying. Please tell me where are these ''lots of checks and counters''.
 
SmashBrosBrawl said:
+2 252+ Atk Flying Gem Talonflame Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Rotom-W: 204-240 (84.29 - 99.17%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
Jirachi cant ko you and gets mauled by flare blitz. Every other scarfer is koed. There are no checks, your only option is sacking something to waste the flying gem, and then sending in a scarfer that resists flying. Please tell me where are these ''lots of checks and counters''.
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What about bulky Rock types? Like Rhyperior. I can't see this thing doing much to Rhyperior aside from maybe burning with Flare Blitz.
 
Rhyperior, golem and friends have never been good or common in last gen ou so i dont expect this to change now. Your most viable bet is ttar. Talonflame can beat hippowdon if it lacks stone edge (though i expect hippo to start carrying the move just to beat talon).
 
SmashBrosBrawl said:
Rhyperior, golem and friends have never been good or common in last gen ou so i dont expect this to change now. Your most viable bet is ttar. Talonflame can beat hippowdon if it lacks stone edge (though i expect hippo to start carrying the move just to beat talon).
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Heatran is still common, and Talonflame crashes and... smolders against it.
 
Mattman324 said:
Heatran is still common, and Talonflame crashes and... smolders against it.
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Which is why you DON'T go against it. Talonflame uses U-turn against it (Heatran can't do much in the process since it barely does anything aside from setting up), and you go to...

sz0KDSO.jpg


Seriously though this Pokemon, like all Pokemon, isn't supposed to handle everything by itself. That would be truly unrealistic.
 
Smexymillz said:
Anyone thought of any good team mates for this thing so far?
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Obviously it is beneficial to employ Rapid Spinners so Talonflame can stay in and do its job and hurt as much as possible before the recoil kills it. Stealth Rock really kills it. As for offensive teammates, having a way to get rid of Heatran and bulky Water-type Pokemon in general definitely goes a long way. You might also want to pair Talonflame with other offensive teammates that can clean up after it sets up Tailwind, and those that benefit from the lack of Blaziken, Lucario, Gengar, and plenty of others!
 
Smexymillz said:
Anyone thought of any good team mates for this thing so far?
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Ferrothorn can check Water and Rock types, although it needs to be wary of TTar's fire blast now that rain has been nerfed. Lanturn Quagsire might be good partners if it ends up in lower tiers as they absorbs water and electric attacks and it's bulky enough to handle unboosted attacks. The latter of the two handles rock type attacks but lacks support moves.
 
TALONFLAME KICKS SO MUCH ASS ZOMGLMAO!!!!11!!!1

Seriously though, I'm loving this guy. I've been using a simple set of -
TF Flying gem
Gale Wings
252 Atk/252 Spe Adamant
- SD
- Acrobatics
- Flare Blitz
- Roost (idk)

Not much else to say. Just read what i said above :p

http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/gen6customgame-57191731
Here, I'm using a rather poorly built team, but I literally made it in a minute just because I wanted to try out a core I've been thinking of - Staraptor/Talonflame/Hawlucha. The aim is simple- lure out and weaken all the fighting resists with 'Raptor, and then sweep with one of the two other members. Skarm for hazards, and Starmie+Xatu for anti-hazards. My opponent was using a team of all megas, and he rage-quitted half way because talonflame would've swept the other half XD.

Another game with my Raptor/TF/Lucha core at work. There was some Quick Claw hax in the match, but whatever. Im sure a good team builder (unlike me) can make this core work.
http://pokemonshowdown.com/replay/gen6customgame-57194704
 
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Hey guys, I thought of a REALLY good core that allows Talonflame to shine and actually be of use in OU. It goes like so...
TALONFLAME @ Flying Gem
Ability: Gale Wings.
EVs: All into Attack and Speed. Not sure where the last point falls.
~ Acrobatics
~ Flare Blitz
~ U-Turn
~ Tailwind

BLASTOISE @ Blastoisnite
ABILITY: Mega Launcher (I guess Shell Armor before, I dunno)
EVs: 252 SpA, then some defense spreading.
~ Rapid Spin
~ Water Pulse
~ Dark Pulse
~ Aura Sphere.

So you know all those things that counter Talonflame? Well, name ONE that can fight Mega Blastoise 1v1. Stealth Rock? No sneaky pebbles against the ULTIMATE SPINNER (only loses 1v1 to Spiritomb baring crits assuming Spiritomb has no prior damage and plays perfectly). Bulky rocks? A Water(pulse)y grave for them! Ferrothorn? Aura Sphere. Meanwhile, the things that can come in on Blastoise either don't want to in a Tailwind, or are some form of quick attacker hoping to kill him in one shot or a bulky grass... both of whom Talonflame EAT FOR BREAKFAST. The combo does have the issue of being electric weak, so you'd have to have a ground type supporting them, but what do you think?
 
I've been having a lot of fun with a sort of gimmicky SD+sash set.

Talonflame @ focus sash
Ability: gale wings
Lonely 252atk 248spA 8spe
0hp 0def 0spD
Swords Dance / Acrobatics / Steel Wing / Flamethrower

The idea of the set is to come in (without hazards) and threaten a switch. During this time, you can set up a swords dance. Sash guarantees at least one swords dance, and the hp and defenses of Talonflame are at a minimum to guarantee sash breaking. Once sash breaks, you have a 110 base power STAB priority move at your disposal. Steel Wing is for coverage, and Flamethrower (I've heard it gets Overheat. If that's true, use Overheat over Flamethrower) is for taking out physical walls and pesky opponents like Ferrothorn. The 8 speed evs let it outspeed neutral base 98 and positive nature 85.

I think Talonflame has nice synergy with Forretress because since Forretress can spin away rocks and also set up spikes. Even at +2 attack, Talonflame often needs a little more help, and a layer or two of spikes can turn its attacks into neat 1hko and 2hkos.

Its counters are fast priority users, things with fake out, and Aegislash, which is a shame since I see Aegislash quite a bit in battles and Aegislash can take a hit and retaliate or just outspeed with shadow sneak if Talonflame goes for a non-priority move.
 
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I've been running Garchomp and Jolteon with this thing and it seems to work out pretty well I'm liking the tailwind combo with mega blastoise though I'll try it out eventually
 
I don't know why, but I just really like this bird. Something about it is just so interesting, even if it does have a 4x weakness to rocks. I came up with another set. It's modeled after Sableye because it had Will-o-Wisp and also priority Roost. It also comes packing better defenses than Sable so I wanted to see if it had any potential.

Talonflame @ Leftovers/flying gem
Ability: Gale wings
Careful 252hp 4def 252spD
-Will-o-Wisp
-Roost
-Protect / Substitute
-Aerial Ace / Acrobatics / Substitute / U-Turn

The main crux of the set is using the now 85% Will-O-Wisp to burn and cripple attackers, and use priority Roost to keep up Talonflame's health. This set lacks the priority Will-o-Wisp and the Taunt that Sableye had, as well as the guaranteed damage Night Shade, but this set gets much better defenses and a way of hitting normal types. The first two slots are setting up the stall, while the third is for Protect or Substitute to stall. The last slot is usually reserved for some offensive move so as not to be completely crippled by Taunt, and it also allows for quick emergency damage to be dealt. Acrobatics should only be used if Flying Gem is used, but I prefer the safer Leftovers and Aerial Ace combination. Talonflame has enough bulk to withstand pretty much any hit thrown against it (so long as it's not rocks), the speed to quickly set up a burn, and then Roost to gain health and remove weaknesses.

The final part of U-Turn was brought to my attention when someone pointed out that besides Mewtwo, Talonflame is the fastest Will-O-Wisp user. Something with 252+ in speed could potentially spread burns and quickly U-Turn out, crippling an opponent's physical attackers.
 
I think priority Tailwind immediately before death in a game with Sticky Web will prove to be immensely useful. A lot of the slower Megas appreciate that a lot.
 
Priority Acrobatics, Brave Bird, Roost and Tailwind and enough speed to out-speed other priority users. It's solid UU material, at least as a cleaner. Stealth rocks weakness is crippling, but Volcarona and Ho-Oh manage to work around that weakness quite well.
Mattman324 said:
He's reliable, though. I think he's RU at lowest.

...then again, Ditto is reliable, and it was NU last gen.
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Isn't Ditto allowed in all tiers because of the technicalities of transform? It's only as strong as the opponent, after all, and its reasonably easy to counter.
 
TwoBit said:
Isn't Ditto allowed in all tiers because of the technicalities of transform? It's only as strong as the opponent, after all, and its reasonably easy to counter.
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...you didn't ever fight an Imposter Ditto, have you? It's probably the most reliable revenge killer in the entirety of everything.
 
Ditto being in all tiers had nothing to do with technicalities. All in all, it wasn't a very effective Pokemon unless the person fighting it was an idiot. You might as well use that teamslot on something you can always count on.
 
TwoBit said:
Isn't Ditto allowed in all tiers because of the technicalities of transform? It's only as strong as the opponent, after all, and its reasonably easy to counter.
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Ditto is allowed in all tiers because people did not use it enough in any usage-based tier and did not ban it from any tier. That's all there is to it, no technicalities.
 
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