Isn't that match up kinda reliant on your set though?
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Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread
- Thread starter Blitzenith
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It won't be happening, Carbink just doesn't have enough HP.
The only problem on past generation with Flash Cannon Heatran was the lack of coverage. As you can see, no more trouble with that.
Not exactly. Has weakness to Ground, Water, 4xSteel, and Grass, and it loses it's resistance to Fighting and Poison. It's sturdy can be destroyed with a simple quick attack. (Or extreme speed if you prefer.) THe only thing it can do before being squashed is Light screen and Stealth Rock. Not to mention if you use Fake Out, then this thing is useless.
However, If you dont have a Base attack of about 110, You may find a use for Carbink.
Personally, this thing is going to have major troubles. Sure it has the movepool...but those weaknesses it sports simply cannot be ignored, especially 4x from Steel-type attacks. Toxic? Gone with Steel-types. Steel-types are going to be everywhere this Generation, and having a crippling weakness to them, even with Sturdy, is simply unacceptable imo. Ground and Water weaknesses do it no favors as well. I can only see Carbink as high as RU.
I've used noivern and it's pretty pro, I think it's good enogh for OU. Fast draco meteors, good coverage, and u-turn make it really good vs offense and it has focusblast to kill tyranitar. It has its problems (SR weakness jumps to mind), but I think its enough to be OU.
Hawlucha will probably be a good scout/ physical attacker, it gets /hi jump kick like a boss and can u-turn and flying press stuff, maybe even viably using acrobatics too! However even with that speed, it is frail and only has base 92 atk, so i don't know... probably not ou.
Heliosk I don't know about. Dry skin (or even solar power !_!) with STAB volt switch and surf / grass know sounds pretty cool with something like substitue, a choice item, or just life orb, and it's one of the few electric types with plenty of anti-ground moves. However, that's basically the extent of its useful movepool which is really annoying. The real killer, though, imo is that the HP nerf means hp ice is no longer as useful, meaning it has no strong dragon slaying move. D: Fairy type partners will definitely be helpful, but ultimately I think he will stay out of OU.
The new ghost-grass, trevenant, I think will NOT be OU. Being a spinblocker that can absorb spore and take on water types is kinda cool but not enough I think. It's just so slow and isn't bulky enough to make up for it. In addition, it gets lots of competition from new and old spinblockers alike for example aegislash and jellicent. Base109 attack is pretty decent, but on something slow + not bulky it can't make up for those other flaws.
The other ghost/grass is gourgeist, which has superb physical bulk but mediocre attack and pretty bad everything else. It might be a useful niche mon for countering fighting types. It also gets flamethrower, leech seed and pain split, all of which are very useful. However, it's slow, has bad special bulk, does NOT have will-o-wisp, and has bad stats outside of hp / def. Useful but not OU probably.
More stuff I think will be OU but am too lazy to type stuff about: not many, honestly. Aegislash and possibly one of the starters maybe
Might post more later, specifically on zygarde.
Hawlucha will probably be a good scout/ physical attacker, it gets /hi jump kick like a boss and can u-turn and flying press stuff, maybe even viably using acrobatics too! However even with that speed, it is frail and only has base 92 atk, so i don't know... probably not ou.
Heliosk I don't know about. Dry skin (or even solar power !_!) with STAB volt switch and surf / grass know sounds pretty cool with something like substitue, a choice item, or just life orb, and it's one of the few electric types with plenty of anti-ground moves. However, that's basically the extent of its useful movepool which is really annoying. The real killer, though, imo is that the HP nerf means hp ice is no longer as useful, meaning it has no strong dragon slaying move. D: Fairy type partners will definitely be helpful, but ultimately I think he will stay out of OU.
The new ghost-grass, trevenant, I think will NOT be OU. Being a spinblocker that can absorb spore and take on water types is kinda cool but not enough I think. It's just so slow and isn't bulky enough to make up for it. In addition, it gets lots of competition from new and old spinblockers alike for example aegislash and jellicent. Base109 attack is pretty decent, but on something slow + not bulky it can't make up for those other flaws.
The other ghost/grass is gourgeist, which has superb physical bulk but mediocre attack and pretty bad everything else. It might be a useful niche mon for countering fighting types. It also gets flamethrower, leech seed and pain split, all of which are very useful. However, it's slow, has bad special bulk, does NOT have will-o-wisp, and has bad stats outside of hp / def. Useful but not OU probably.
More stuff I think will be OU but am too lazy to type stuff about: not many, honestly. Aegislash and possibly one of the starters maybe
Might post more later, specifically on zygarde.
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For Noivern, don't forget Boom Burst, even if it's a Normal type, it surely hurts a lot and it's a reliable move to be used. If Aegislash comes, you just U-turn.
However, you underestimate Heliolisk. It has a lot of versatility and can easily switch into any weather starter bar Focus Blast Politoed, and then use any of his coverage moves to defeat them. Yeah, his stats aren't that good, but it surely has that niche.
Hawlucha, YES that is what I said!
Trevenant, Yeah. I agree
Gourgeist, I agree.
Noivern, No. Squashed by Fairy and Ice types. Only thing it has going for it is it's speed.
Togekiss is NOT better than Florges
Florges is NOT better than Togekiss
They're special fairy pivots, but both of them play differently to be separated, also, the SR weakness blows like 99% of the time, and florges wishes it had more than pretty much just fairy and grass moves + psychic and hidden power for a movepool, they both have things they both would envy, their pretty much on even playing fields if you ask me, it just matters if your team needs a bulky average speed flying fairy type with access to things like NP and fire blast or a specially bulkier pure fairy with access to things like CM and moonblast.
All in all each has tools of the trade, it's up to your team and playing style to decide which to use, kind of like a garchomp VS salamence type situation, none is directly overall serperior, but they both do have their merits that make them a specific pick over one another on certain teams and archetypes (I personally like florges more, but that's because I love it's design and it fits better on my teams, mainly bulky offense and stall)
Florges is NOT better than Togekiss
They're special fairy pivots, but both of them play differently to be separated, also, the SR weakness blows like 99% of the time, and florges wishes it had more than pretty much just fairy and grass moves + psychic and hidden power for a movepool, they both have things they both would envy, their pretty much on even playing fields if you ask me, it just matters if your team needs a bulky average speed flying fairy type with access to things like NP and fire blast or a specially bulkier pure fairy with access to things like CM and moonblast.
All in all each has tools of the trade, it's up to your team and playing style to decide which to use, kind of like a garchomp VS salamence type situation, none is directly overall serperior, but they both do have their merits that make them a specific pick over one another on certain teams and archetypes (I personally like florges more, but that's because I love it's design and it fits better on my teams, mainly bulky offense and stall)
Actually, I take back what I said about Carbink. Explosion + Sturdy. :D
True, Heliolisk has a good movepool, high Sp. Attack and Speed. But I don't see it going too high on the tier lists because of a base HP and Defense weakness (62/52, respectively, according to sources). Basically, Heliolisk gets whacked by priority, especially Mach Punch. RU, maybe UU at best imo.
Edit: Well, that was perhaps one of the most lame-brained comments I've made in a while.
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UU at worst imo, this thing smashes in any relatively speed based tier to be as low as RU, like don't get me wrong, RU is a fantastic tier, but it's pretty fuckin low. the only mach punch users in OU are breloom and conkeldurr, well common users of it at least, in UU there are barely any, UU doesn't look so easy on it at first due to competition from the likes of raikou and zapdos, but it can find the perfect in the middle spot because of it's movepool, also ground types can't block it's momentum, it gets uturn
your right, though weather is most likely less influential this gen maybe I did give heliosk not enough credit :>
It seemed like those weren't that big of an issue when I used it, but yeah that's true. time for moar testing!!! :P
...touche! Did not think about it that way. I do change and agree with you in that it is a UU at worst Pokemon. Such a wide movepool that must be contained by Pokemon in higher tiers is something that is hard to ignore. Who knows? It may get more tools via Egg Moves.
As OIAwesome said, UU at worst. UU is not a tier renowned for its priority, except for sucker punch users and the odd aqua jet. The only mach punch user we have at present is hitmontop, who asides from being a garbage mon, rarely has the moveslot or even the ability to use technician for mach punch. Base speed is more than good enough for UU as well, though having difficulty against snorlax isn't as good.
Edit: Ninja'd it seems
Yeah, try Aegislash Hawlucha Combo in a Double battle. The perfect combination of Fast and Slow.
I know that, but as I said, that isn't Heliolisk's role. None of the weather starters have priority and the only ones that get Focus Blast are: Politoed, T-tar and Charizard-Y. While for Earthquake: Just Hippowdon and T-tar. And I seriously think Hippowdon is going to drop, he barely's OU. While Charizard-Y seriously sucks for starting weather. That just leaves us Focus Blast T-tar and Politoed, none of them faster than Heliolisk.
Dude-- how is a 150 Fighting attack and a 150 base power STAB Rock attack NOT impressive? This is the same base power as Water Spout or Head Smash. Of course it's still crit-based, but if it's actually hitting that power 25% of the time or more-- that's some serious fire power. And completely forgot to factor in SNIPER-- which we have no idea how much it boosts. It could be a boost back to 2x power-- it could be a boost to the original 3x power!
Well first of all, according to serebii, it does have access to Will-o-Wisp.
http://serebii.net/pokedex-xy/711.shtml
Second of all, Gourgeist will probably overtake Jellicent as the premier OU spinblocker. I think it's fair to assume that the OU spinners will be Starmie, Excadrill, Forretress, with Blastoise, Donphan, Claydol, and Hitmontop being used here and there. Gourgeist is guaranteed to win 1v1 against all of them except Offensive LO Starmie with Ice Beam. Which also reminds me, this thing matches up surprisingly well against Excadrill. +2 EQ deals 39.83-47.32%, RS deals 40.37-47.59%, X-Scissor deals 43.04-50.8%, and Return obviously does nothing. The only move with a chance of 2HKOing is X-Scissor even after SR due to the Grass secondary typing. This thing isn't going to be a top 10 Pokemon or anything, but it definitely has a niche in OU.
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We all know how reliable serebii movepools are *COUGH* SHELL SMASH CLAWITZER *COUGH* , nah jk, but it does get WoW
Yeah, I guess Serebii is following suit in TrollFreak's footsteps. Nah, not really, the Serebii guys are good, it must be hard and pressuring to get all this down as quick as possible.
I digress...Gourgeist definitely looks like a premier Spin-Blocker, and a really good one at that. Question is...will we see different sizes get different roles?
Protect/Leech Seed now just got better!! But seriously, I think the most used form will be the Super Sized one. Yeah, it has low speed, but for a support poke like this that doesn't matter that much. Still, I think it should have got Natural Cure like Trevenant instead of that sucky Frisk, u.u
Aegislash, at least in the early days of the metagame. Its gimmick is actually awesome and King's Shield is a gigantic FU to many physical attackers. When the metagame settles down, maybe the hype will be for naught, but I think it won't ever leave OU. It'll either be like Heatran or like Electivire.
if Blaziken stays OU this time, it'll be because of mons like Aegislash and also Azumarill and Talonflame, a soft counter and really good check, respectively. This would cement their places in OU.
if Blaziken stays OU this time, it'll be because of mons like Aegislash and also Azumarill and Talonflame, a soft counter and really good check, respectively. This would cement their places in OU.
78/63 special defenses are also hardly 'abnormally low.' They're on par with Forretress' 75/60 defenses, Infernape's 76/71, Lucario's 70/70, all being established in the OU tier. They're also considerably better than Breloom's 60/60 defenses, with Breloom sharing Hawlucha's psychic and ice weaknesses.
Also, no offense, but since when was a weakness to psychic, of all things, a serious cause for concern? Not that many Pokemon in OU carry psychic attacks, and those that do really have no business switching into Hawlucha, being slower than it and unable to sponge the kind of damage it's capable of inflicting. None of them can really do anything to stop a Hawlucha baton pass, which is the other thing.
What really makes Hawlucha potential OU material is the fact that it doesn't have to just worry about dishing out the damage. If it's faced by something it doesn't like, it can just pass its boosts onto another team member, and there's very little in the established OU metagame that can stop the pass. It 2HKOs all of OU's established phazers and outruns the Pokemon who resist its STAB combo for easy BPs.
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