Other 6th Gen Pokemon OU Candidate Speculation Thread

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SapphSabre777 said:
Yeah, I guess Serebii is following suit in TrollFreak's footsteps. Nah, not really, the Serebii guys are good, it must be hard and pressuring to get all this down as quick as possible.

I digress...Gourgeist definitely looks like a premier Spin-Blocker, and a really good one at that. Question is...will we see different sizes get different roles?
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it's really not THE premier spinblocker though
+2 232+ Atk Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist: 183-216 (54.79 - 64.67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 226-268 (67.66 - 80.23%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
64+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 216-254 (64.67 - 76.04%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 134-162 (40.11 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

I know it gets WoW for 3/4 of them, but it can't switchin, which is the main point of a spinblocker, to be a good switchin into common rapid spin users effectively keeping your hazards in place

non hazard based teams are better off using mega venu if they're looking for a bulky grass though, sleep is much more dangerous overall than WoW, that and it can Phaze
0 Atk Skarmory Brave Bird vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 134-162 (36.81 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Venusaur: 99-117 (27.19 - 32.14%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
64+ Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur: 108-128 (29.67 - 35.16%) -- 18.43% chance to 3HKO

neither of them can switchin into *new* bulky spin exca though
+2 232+ Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 228-268 (62.63 - 73.62%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
Edgar81539 said:
Protect/Leech Seed now just got better!! But seriously, I think the most used form will be the Super Sized one. Yeah, it has low speed, but for a support poke like this that doesn't matter that much. Still, I think it should have got Natural Cure like Trevenant instead of that sucky Frisk, u.u
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Frisk isn't really that bad imo, especially for a defensive mon. It lets you scout what set your opponent's running, not to mention Megas (that aren't obvious like Mawile and Absol)
 
Edgar81539 said:
Protect/Leech Seed now just got better!! But seriously, I think the most used form will be the Super Sized one. Yeah, it has low speed, but for a support poke like this that doesn't matter that much. Still, I think it should have got Natural Cure like Trevenant instead of that sucky Frisk, u.u
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I was expecting some fire absorb ability when I first saw it

Ckarasu said:
It gets recover, so you can't just poke it. And it has high defense, mitigating its weaknesses. There are plenty of physically bulky pokemon with terrible special defense in OU(or are used in OU). It gets what it needs to succeed in what it needs to do, in my opinion. I'm not calling OU, but it can certainly survive in the environment.
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Just to reiterate, the best banded Garchomp can hope to do is have a 10% chance to 2KO with Outrage against 252/0 adamant Avalugg.
Recover is beautiful, Rapid Spin is interesting, 95/184 defence, 117 attack on top of that, avalanch, EQ.
Bad Spec def but that's what team is for, tried breeding for Ice Shard but fucking trollfreak left it out when even fucking Donphan gets it
I agree with you that it's not neccessarily OU material but what it lacks in ideal spinner defensive typing it makes up for in potency that's for sure.
 
Yeah I forgot about Iron Head on Exca. But considering how Jellicent can't even take hits from an unboosted Excadrill, Gourgeist is still tops. As for bulky grass types, why would you waste your Mega Slot on Venusaur? I'd much rather carry a Mega that can actually change the complexion of a game. Speaking of Megas, I haven't gotten a chance to play with all of them yet, but from what I've seen so far and on paper:

The OP:
-Gengar
-Blaziken
-Lucario

The Good:
-Charizard X
-Alakazam
-Aerodactyl
-Tyranitar
-Gardevoir
-Mawile
-Medicham
-Absol

The Bad:
-Charizard Y
-Blastoise
-Pinsir
-Ampharos
-Scizor
-Houndoom
-Manetric
-Abomasnow

The Awful:
-Venusaur
-Gyarados
-Heracross
-Banette
-Garchomp

The Aggron:
-Mega Aggron is the most useless thing I've ever seen, why Gamefreak made a Mega version of Solid Rock Rhyperior with even more cripping x4 weaknesses is beyond me
 
New World Order said:
Yeah I forgot about Iron Head on Exca. But considering how Jellicent can't even take hits from an unboosted Excadrill, Gourgeist is still tops. As for bulky grass types, why would you waste your Mega Slot on Venusaur? I'd much rather carry a Mega that can actually change the complexion of a game. Speaking of Megas, I haven't gotten a chance to play with all of them yet, but from what I've seen so far and on paper:

The OP:
-Gengar
-Blaziken
-Lucario

The Good:
-Charizard X
-Alakazam
-Aerodactyl
-Tyranitar
-Gardevoir
-Mawile
-Medicham
-Absol

The Bad:
-Charizard Y
-Blastoise
-Pinsir
-Ampharos
-Scizor
-Houndoom
-Manetric
-Abomasnow

The Awful:
-Venusaur
-Gyarados
-Heracross
-Banette
-Garchomp

The Aggron:
-Mega Aggron is the most useless thing I've ever seen, why Gamefreak made a Mega version of Solid Rock Rhyperior with even more cripping x4 weaknesses is beyond me
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Ah, ignorance is bliss. Mega Pinsir is great with STAB Flying type Quick Attack and good speed. Charizard Y gets a guaranteed boost to his Fire type attacks as well a neutralizing water. Venusaur becomes a great tank with Thick Fat and its good support moves. Blastoise is even harder to kill and has boosted Aura Sphere, apparently. Houndoom is fantastic now with its increased speed and special attack. Manectric will have a use as well, as it does learn some decent special attacks. And Banette gets priority Pain Split among other things. You really need to look into the megas more, because I think you missed the point of some.
 
Ckarasu said:
Ah, ignorance is bliss. Mega Pinsir is great with STAB Flying type Quick Attack and good speed. Charizard Y gets a guaranteed boost to his Fire type attacks as well a neutralizing water. Venusaur becomes a great tank with Thick Fat and its good support moves. Blastoise is even harder to kill and has boosted Aura Sphere, apparently. Houndoom is fantastic now with its increased speed and special attack. Manectric will have a use as well, as it does learn some decent special attacks. And Banette gets priority Pain Split among other things. You really need to look into the mega more, because I think you missed the point of some.
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Like I said, I haven't played with all of them yet. see: Aggron. I'd probably change my mind on some of them after a few weeks. But so far, Charizard Y has been frustratingly difficult to support properly, Venucaur can't change the momentum of a battle like other Megas, Houdoom struggles in the land of Fighting-types, Manetric has questionable coverage, and Banette can't make good use of it's best stat. I'll admit I haven't played Pinsir/Blastoise yet though.
 
M-Banette is Sableye on steroids. It's nowhere near "awful".
M-Blastoise is one of the few rapid-spinner that can beat ghosts one-on-one with Dark Pulse, which gets the Mega Launcher boost too.
 
M-Banette awful? Not at all, "good" at the very least.

M-Alakazam seems pretty situational, the loss of Magic Guard hurts.
 
New World Order said:
Like I said, I haven't played with all of them yet. see: Aggron. I'd probably change my mind on some of them after a few weeks. But so far, Charizard Y has been frustratingly difficult to support properly, Venucaur can't change the momentum of a battle like other Megas, Houdoom struggles in the land of Fighting-types, Manetric has questionable coverage, and Banette can't make good use of it's best stat. I'll admit I haven't played Pinsir/Blastoise yet though.
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Thing is: Houndoom outspeeds most fighting types and dents them with his Flamethrower. If sun is up, it's likely he'll outright KO them. I can't think of many fighting types that want to switch into him. Charizard Y is easy to support, given how many good taunters and spinners there are. You really need to assess your knowledge of the metagame, it seems.
 
New World Order said:
-Venusaur
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I honestly want to smash your brain in with a stapler, not only did you say, the best defensive mega evolution to ever exist is awful, but you jsut said something with near cresselia level defenses is awful

I would talk more, but that doesn't cure pure ignorance:
252 Atk Choice Band Terrakion Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 153-180 (42.03 - 49.45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Thundurus-T Hidden Power Ice vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Venusaur: 78-94 (21.42 - 25.82%) -- possible 4HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Rotom-W Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 108-128 (29.67 - 35.16%) -- 19.46% chance to 3HKO (HP ice is weaker)
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 118-139 (32.41 - 38.18%) -- 97.56% chance to 3HKO
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 154-183 (42.3 - 50.27%) -- 0.39% chance to 2HKO (Play rough and play around are resisted so they would do less)
252 Atk Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur: 122-146 (33.51 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Mega Garchomp Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 150-177 (41.2 - 48.62%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 136-162 (37.36 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Venusaur: 125-147 (34.34 - 40.38%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Kyurem-B Outrage vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 150-177 (41.2 - 48.62%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 252 Atk Mega Gyarados Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Venusaur: 139-165 (38.18 - 45.32%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

and more, this thing is literally the perfect tank 122 base SpA, 123 def, and 120 sdef, now go in the corner and think about what you've said

if you continue honestly consisting that it's awful, I have no words to comment on that level of pure ignorance
 
Mega Bannette completely lacks any form of recovery, that alone makes it not quite "Sableye on steroids". The only nice thing about it is the Prankster Destiny Bond. But I'd much rather just use, say, Mega Lucario and kill outright. Also, the fact that you're using Charizard Y immediately means you're gimping Starmie and Blastoise, while Excadrill isn't nearly as threatening in the Sun as it is in the Sand. As we know with Cresselia, having Cresselia level bulk does not make a good Pokemon. Venusaur too, suffers from having to rely on the inconsistent Synthesis for instant recovery, and the loss of Leftovers isn't doing it any favours as well. Sure Thick Fat negates it's weakness to Fire and Ice, but Venusaur also only has a whopping 4 resistances. I guess he's technically the best option for Stall, but with b.s. like Mega Blaziken running around, Stall is at it's nadir. Maybe Mega Venusaur will be more useful as it gets some more sets, and the Mega Blazikens of the world get banished to Ubers. As of right now, I'm not thinking "Oh crap! Mega Venusaur!" when one pops up.
 
New World Order said:
Mega Bannette completely lacks any form of recovery, that alone makes it not quite "Sableye on steroids". The only nice thing about it is the Prankster Destiny Bond. But I'd much rather just use, say, Mega Lucario and kill outright. Also, the fact that you're using Charizard Y immediately means you're gimping Starmie and Blastoise, while Excadrill isn't nearly as threatening in the Sun as it is in the Sand. As we know with Cresselia, having Cresselia level bulk does not make a good Pokemon. Venusaur too, suffers from having to rely on the inconsistent Synthesis for instant recovery, and the loss of Leftovers isn't doing it any favours as well. Sure Thick Fat negates it's weakness to Fire and Ice, but Venusaur also only has a whopping 4 resistances. I guess he's technically the best option for Stall, but with b.s. like Mega Blaziken running around, Stall is at it's nadir. Maybe Mega Venusaur will be more useful as it gets some more sets, and the Mega Blazikens of the world get banished to Ubers. As of right now, I'm not thinking "Oh crap! Mega Venusaur!" when one pops up.
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The more you talk, the less I'm convinced you know what you're talking about. Mega Banette can abuse Pain Split for recovery, which works very well with his HP stat. But you didn't know that, now did you? Also, Venusaur doesn't need resistances with those stats. Cresselia, for example, had awful resistances but was a great wall due to its defenses. It only really lacked an offense, which Venusaur has. Stats come first, resistances come second if stats aren't adequate. And Synthesis is reliable, moreso than ever, because of the nerf to interfering weather.
 
Cresselia also had Leftovers and Recover. Leftovers is such a huge boon to any 'mon focused on defense, one big problem the defensive Megas share is the lack thereof.

Synthesis is acceptable, at least, but a PP of 8 isn't doing it any favors.
 
New World Order said:
Mega Bannette completely lacks any form of recovery, that alone makes it not quite "Sableye on steroids". The only nice thing about it is the Prankster Destiny Bond. But I'd much rather just use, say, Mega Lucario and kill outright. Also, the fact that you're using Charizard Y immediately means you're gimping Starmie and Blastoise, while Excadrill isn't nearly as threatening in the Sun as it is in the Sand. As we know with Cresselia, having Cresselia level bulk does not make a good Pokemon. Venusaur too, suffers from having to rely on the inconsistent Synthesis for instant recovery, and the loss of Leftovers isn't doing it any favours as well. Sure Thick Fat negates it's weakness to Fire and Ice, but Venusaur also only has a whopping 4 resistances. I guess he's technically the best option for Stall, but with b.s. like Mega Blaziken running around, Stall is at it's nadir. Maybe Mega Venusaur will be more useful as it gets some more sets, and the Mega Blazikens of the world get banished to Ubers. As of right now, I'm not thinking "Oh crap! Mega Venusaur!" when one pops up.
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Cresselia lacks even decent offenses and has had a considered bad defensive typing due to the fact that it's main recovery move is stopped cold in it's tracks by the one pokemon that checks it absolutely and 100%: tyranitar. Compare that to mega venu, which has 122 base special attack, 7 points lower than KELDEO for gods sake and 8 lower than LATIOS 2 of the most fearsome spec attackers last gen, and combine that with the fact that it came in on a gen where it destroys the main things trying to stop it's 50% recovery in synthesis (toed and hippo/ttar) and where it's secondary poison type is very potent in stopping most fairies COLD in their tracks (especially azumarill, florges and friends). Lets not even touch the fact that it gets acess to sleep and is one of the only hard walls against protean greninja you will find in the tier (ferro can't switch in on power up punch/HP fire) 252 SpA Life Orb Ice Type Protean Greninja Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Thick Fat Venusaur: 148-174 (40.65 - 47.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO.

THere's a lot more stupid trash you talked, but seeing as your arguments are so flawed and show clear lack of even CONSIDERATION for something not stupidly powerful with 1,800 base offenses or some crap. I don't think you're even giving a break to stall, 252 Atk Mega Blaziken Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Thick Fat Venusaur: 144-170 (39.56 - 46.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO, come the fuck on man, your arguments are so stupid they honestly make me want to puke

also no fucking shit you're not screaming when you see a wall, it's a wall for gods sake, the most frightful thought you should have at most is "this is going to be a BITCH to take down" that's like being afraid of chansey in team preview, what in the fuck man, you don't get afraid of walls, you get annoyed of them

Surgo said:
Synthesis is acceptable, at least, but a PP of 8 isn't doing it any favors.
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true, but you should really be using this as a pivot into things in order to scare them out, not really as a long time staller, something like that is best left for chansey, which has the time and lack of offenses to be doing that crap, though, it gets leech seed if you really want to do that
 
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Surgo said:
Cresselia also had Leftovers and Recover. Leftovers is such a huge boon to any 'mon focused on defense, one big problem the defensive Megas share is the lack thereof.

Synthesis is acceptable, at least, but a PP of 8 isn't doing it any favors.
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Lefties are neat, but not that great in reality. And Saur also has Giga Drain, should it need it. He does not need lefties, and that should be obvious.
 
New World Order said:
Like I said, I haven't played with all of them yet. see: Aggron. I'd probably change my mind on some of
-Garchomp
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Can't Mega-Garchomp 2OHKO every nearly single Pokemon in the entire game? I mean yeah it lost some speed but it's now become essentially the best wall breaker in the entire game. I mean from my usage so far this thing absolutely tears apart stall and balanced teams. Dual Chop is also fantastic for breaking sashes for pokemon laying down spikes.
 
A Fhaol Bhig said:
Can't Mega-Garchomp 2OHKO every nearly single Pokemon in the entire game? I mean yeah it lost some speed but it's now become essentially the best wall breaker in the entire game. I mean from my usage so far this thing absolutely tears apart stall and balanced teams. Dual Chop is also fantastic for breaking sashes for pokemon laying down spikes.
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Sticky Web support will allow Mega Garchomp to make up for that lost speed, as well.
 
Ckarasu said:
Because access to multiple forms of recovery necessitates the use of another form of recovery, right? No, wait, it doesn't.
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Leftovers is much more reliable than Giga Drain and also allows Venusaur to actually use damaging moves instead of a BP 60 attack. Venusaur is not a reliable staller (unless it Mega Evolves for Thick Fat) because strong Fire and Ice types will be can punch right through it.

EDIT: I just realized that Mega Venusaur can't hold Leftovers. It'll have to be Leech Seed or bust.
 
Kriptini said:
Leftovers is much more reliable than Giga Drain and also allows Venusaur to actually use damaging moves instead of a BP 60 attack. Venusaur is not a reliable staller (unless it Mega Evolves for Thick Fat) because strong Fire and Ice types will be can punch right through it.
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I was actually referring to its mega form. That Fire and Ice weakness kills it. Also, last I checked, Giga Drain is a 75 BP move. Not that weak, really, and reliable enough with that high Sp Atk stat. Lefties are, as I said, nice but hardly necessary for something like Mega Venusaur.
Kriptini said:
EDIT: I just realized that Mega Venusaur can't hold Leftovers. It'll have to be Leech Seed or bust.
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That opinion is adorable.
 
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