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Other Viable Megas
- Thread starter thedotwalks
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I think most megas will find some use or another as an obscure surprise set by the end of it all, except maybe Megazam. They won't be nearly as useful early in the meta as people will be more cautious looking out for them. Like lures people won't expect them to be mega since it isn't the primary set. They bring in their jellicent on cross, and get wrecked by bullet seed. Hippowdown gets laughed at by megachomp. Other ideas that we are blind to right now since we don't know the meta. Maybe the added bulk on tyrannitar let's it avoid some crucial 2hko and suddenly you lure and check a dominant sweeper.
Another thing that is really infuriating me is this Idea of "It's not worth it to waste your mega slot on it." I am willing to bet that some teams that absolutely dominate the ladder will not run a mega evolution. Mega Evos are good, a great powerhouse even, but as you guys so frequently point out. Not all that better than the rest of pokemon. There are some that are really busted (Gengar & Blaziken) will likely dominate and be too good, but they'll pass and ascend into ubers as the meta settles, and if they don't it's because they can be checked rather well.
The point of all of this is to try and get some intelligent posts about these guys, instead of saying "OMG ITS BROKEN BAN IT NOAW" and "It's Good" or "It's trash" let's actually talk about the pokemon instead of whatever your 13-500 w/l ladder rating self thinks about from your wealth of experience and knowledge. Actually explain yourself.
tl;dr?
All megas are likely to find a niche (even Zam); A mega evo slot isn't that big of a deal to use; Tell me why you feel that way about a mega instead of looking like an imbecile.
Another thing that is really infuriating me is this Idea of "It's not worth it to waste your mega slot on it." I am willing to bet that some teams that absolutely dominate the ladder will not run a mega evolution. Mega Evos are good, a great powerhouse even, but as you guys so frequently point out. Not all that better than the rest of pokemon. There are some that are really busted (Gengar & Blaziken) will likely dominate and be too good, but they'll pass and ascend into ubers as the meta settles, and if they don't it's because they can be checked rather well.
The point of all of this is to try and get some intelligent posts about these guys, instead of saying "OMG ITS BROKEN BAN IT NOAW" and "It's Good" or "It's trash" let's actually talk about the pokemon instead of whatever your 13-500 w/l ladder rating self thinks about from your wealth of experience and knowledge. Actually explain yourself.
tl;dr?
All megas are likely to find a niche (even Zam); A mega evo slot isn't that big of a deal to use; Tell me why you feel that way about a mega instead of looking like an imbecile.
I agree. They're good, but I doubt they'll dominate to the point where it's a conundrum to choose which one to use. Barring Gengar and Blaziken, of course.
I just thought of something funny. Even if Mega forms of pokemon in OU are considered, for some reason, to be trash, they can never reach BL. This is because it would mean their base pokemon had to be in BL. Not really talking tiers here, just some humorous thoughts.
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Messing around with Mega Aggron in conjunction with Wish Salamence. The defensive synergy is neat, and Aggron is an excellent emergency stop to a lot of sweepers which lack STAB super-effective moves. And if they have those, but they're physical, they won't be killing anyway. Problems so far include missing Head Smash and running a more defensive Salamence... They can take hits, but neither is about to actually kill an opponent.
Well, I like to think of it as a moveset or an ability that sucks on a Pokemon - nobody uses Dragon Dance Tyranitar or Overgrow Venusaur in OU, really, but it's not like they are/can be ranked lower than the base 'mon, y'know?
[Dragon Dance TTar sounds like it'd be fun to use, though...]
I'm confused, your grammar and tone sound like you're trying to refute me, but I said the same thing already...?
I like the core, can deal with steel types well with fire moves or EQ from mence and EQ or Superpower from aggron. And I wouldn't doubt the power of Heavy slam (if Mega Aggron is heavier I wonder) as well as dragon stab. Even if fairies are around.
Nope. Just voicing my agreement with your statement.
Too many people here are writing off Megaevolutions because they can't out-hit choiceband/life orb variants, but a lot of the BST for the unliked mega pokemon go into defenses or the alternative attacking stat (for instance, MKhan has +20 SpA, meaning, with parental bond you could 'potentially' justify using Solarbeam, Blizzard, or Thunder if you've got the weather set up for him - he essentially has over 100 base SpA if you squint hard enough). Megaevolutions seem to be best geared toward teams that need bulky threats. Also, Mevos tend to be +10 or more speed faster than their regular variants, which can be a huge deal - for instance, MKhan outspeeds Blazekin if he doesn't protect the first turn. Double earthquake always kills it.
The only megaevolution I can't justify is mega Abomasnow. He's not going to live a fire move no matter how much bulk you give him. It's rather pointless. He also should have gotten a different ability upon transformation. He's the only one I can legitimately say isn't 'worth it'. But I'm sure someone will craft a team that utilizes him effectively - it's just going to be less intuitive. Like, I don't think MAbomasnow can be your lead, because he's too precious to throw away. You have to deal with the fire users before Abomasnow can come out to play.
The only megaevolution I can't justify is mega Abomasnow. He's not going to live a fire move no matter how much bulk you give him. It's rather pointless. He also should have gotten a different ability upon transformation. He's the only one I can legitimately say isn't 'worth it'. But I'm sure someone will craft a team that utilizes him effectively - it's just going to be less intuitive. Like, I don't think MAbomasnow can be your lead, because he's too precious to throw away. You have to deal with the fire users before Abomasnow can come out to play.
Just going to echo the above: Mega Abomasnow is better than regular Abomasnow in every way. 252 Positive Nature Abomasnow's ATK stat hits 311, while his Mega Form's 0 Neutral Nature ATK stat only trails behind by 5 points, hitting 306, and again, that is without any investment at all! Mega Abomasnow's Special Attack Stat (assuming the base stats on the research thread are still accurate) is 25 points higher than his regular form's highest possible Special Attack Stat. So, excluding the use of items, Abomasnow's Mega Form is already able to dish out damage (roughly) equal to or greater than his original form's ATK stats if they were fully invested in and at a positive nature, to boot! This is fantastic for Abomasnow because now he can invest more in his (vastly improved) bulk, which will let him sponge Electric, Grass, Water, and Ground-Type attacks more easily while also letting him survive hits he probably couldn't take otherwise.
I mean, I know it's a give-in that Abomasnow's Attacking stats would be much better than the original's, but I don't know how many other mega formes can boast that they out-damage (or match) the original's absolute maximum, on both sides, with absolutely no investment whatsoever, you know? His stats are just that much higher compared to the original.
Even if the Smogon research thread happens to be wrong, and Serebii happens to be right, Abomasnow (should, realistically, I haven't done any calculations with Serebii's stats) be hitting harder from both sides of the spectrum than offensive Abomasnow sets were ever able to.
I want to second this notion regarding the simpletons thinking that pure damage trumps all when considering a Megamon. Speed tiers, type change, ability changes, defenses all have to be taken into consideration. Not to mention, Megamon don't often deal THAT much inferior damage to their original, AND they don't require being locked into a move or taking LO recoil to do it. The only instances where the higher damage from the original is more important is if it changes any crucial 2HKOs into OHKOs. The list for those circumstances can't be especially long.
I've used mega blastoise a lot in story line and in the battle chateau, and it can really only do one thing that Clawitzer can't: Rapid spin. but other than that, Clawitzer is a pretty good second. it learns more moves that get the mega Launcher boost and can hit just as hard if not harder with choice specs, or go for the bulkier approach and use leftovers. True it's not as bulky or as fast, but it's got item choice. I'm not saying that it's better than mega blastoise (who's pretty awesome), but there are better megas (mega lucario, mega gengar etc. etc.) and there are other hard hitting waters. but rapid spin.
Also, for mega venusaur, yes it gets very bulky and it's ability is great at controlling it's weaknesses to ice and fire but Ferrothorn has more resistances and access to stealth rock and iron thorns. Not only that, but Ferrothorn has an immunity, so really, if you're going the defensive route, Ferrothorn's bulkier. Mind you it's not faster, and not as offensively inclined. so if you want to go offensive, (and there are other offensive grass types that are faster) venusaur is better.
There are always alternatives
Also, for mega venusaur, yes it gets very bulky and it's ability is great at controlling it's weaknesses to ice and fire but Ferrothorn has more resistances and access to stealth rock and iron thorns. Not only that, but Ferrothorn has an immunity, so really, if you're going the defensive route, Ferrothorn's bulkier. Mind you it's not faster, and not as offensively inclined. so if you want to go offensive, (and there are other offensive grass types that are faster) venusaur is better.
There are always alternatives
Guys, I have a perfectly IV trained Megatoise that hits like a truck. I don't think anyone has officially confirmed it yet, but Blastoise CAN learn Aura Sphere and Dragon Pulse when it's bred with a male Clawitzer that knows the moves.
MY TEST BLASTOISE
@Blastoisinite
252 Sp Atk / 252 HP / 4 Sp Def
-Water Pulse
-Dragon Pulse
-Aura Sphere
-Rapid Spin
It's working well for me at the moment, good at blasting through crap and taking the hits, and always there to clear the field of annoying hazards.
MY TEST BLASTOISE
@Blastoisinite
252 Sp Atk / 252 HP / 4 Sp Def
-Water Pulse
-Dragon Pulse
-Aura Sphere
-Rapid Spin
It's working well for me at the moment, good at blasting through crap and taking the hits, and always there to clear the field of annoying hazards.
I'd recommend changing dragon pulse with dark pulse, as it destroys almost any ghost type trying to spinblock
I wonder if it'll become a strategy to have multiple Pokemon with their mega stones so you can evolve a different one depending on the battle. Obviously the Pokemon would be less powerful, having to not only lose an item but also be accountable for two distinct forms, but having the ability to choose between different mega evolutions in the middle of battle could be very important.
Also, the potential is very high for more mega evolutions to be revealed later, given that we haven't cracked the 3DS yet. New Mega evolutions and unknown new event pokemon will make this generation a bit like 4/5 in terms of sudden meta changes from minor additions, but with the added concern that the additions won't be known in advance, meaning people won't be speculating about them.
Also, the potential is very high for more mega evolutions to be revealed later, given that we haven't cracked the 3DS yet. New Mega evolutions and unknown new event pokemon will make this generation a bit like 4/5 in terms of sudden meta changes from minor additions, but with the added concern that the additions won't be known in advance, meaning people won't be speculating about them.
Thanks
See, wasn't that a wonderful learning experience? (for me)
Sense Mega's don't revert when they switch out, you could switch into a different mon to deal with Tyranitar, or even back into Charizard to put drought back up. However you are correct, this would probably screw you over later. So if you see somebody with a tyranitar, don't use mega charizard. I'm sure everybody will have at least two potential megas on a team in order to present more options.
It's not about the long-term; it's that Charizard ends up locked into Solarbeam while Tyranitar OHKOes it.
Using two Mega Stones would be a giant waste. One can be hard enough to justify, and it's not like regular Charizard would fare any better against Tyranitar.
An interesting theory. I guess we'll all see how the metagame develops. Until then nothing is certain.
I think that a lot of people will use multiple megas on a team. Maybe just to psyche people out into thinking that Scizor is going mega, when really it's Tyranitar you have to look out for. (don't yell at me for how stupid that example was, it was just an example.)
A lot of people like having options, and the smarter people won't waste a mega that can get OHKO'ed by whatever you have out. If you are going to use an item to boost stats (not saying that you will, items are often more practical than that) than why not use a mega to do the same job BETTER?
Don't forget about Defog though.
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I'd recommend swapping out Water Pulse for Scald or Dragon Pulse. Scald (It's better than WP because of the Burn chance) if you want a more supporty move that deals with fire and ground. Dragon Pulse if you want coverage against dragons and a strong neutral attack.
To everybody who says abomasnow is miles ahead of normal:
Just because it outdamages, dear god, it DOES NOT MEAN that it is better. While it does have increased defenses, it has seven weaknesses, and any acceptable offensive mon should have a super effective move against it. The defense increases it gets are practically futile.
Sure, he was already slow, but he was just fast enough to outpace certain things like Empoleon, Umbreon, Azumarill, Rhyperior (it can take an ice shard any day but it won't be taking a wood hammer well, even if its only expert belt), and Swampert. All of these were things he could put a dent in, set up on, or just plain kill before, but now he's down to 30 base speed (down with snorlax, bronzong, slowbro, and cofagrigus, just to compare) he won't be doing anything useful, even with a strong ice shard, that does basically nothing to the things it handles above.
To summarize: there are MUCH better megas to use instead of abomasnow, even if you're doing trick room (mega mawile is better), and anything mega does better is evened out by the valuable roles abomasnow plays, which mega cannot do.
Just because it outdamages, dear god, it DOES NOT MEAN that it is better. While it does have increased defenses, it has seven weaknesses, and any acceptable offensive mon should have a super effective move against it. The defense increases it gets are practically futile.
Sure, he was already slow, but he was just fast enough to outpace certain things like Empoleon, Umbreon, Azumarill, Rhyperior (it can take an ice shard any day but it won't be taking a wood hammer well, even if its only expert belt), and Swampert. All of these were things he could put a dent in, set up on, or just plain kill before, but now he's down to 30 base speed (down with snorlax, bronzong, slowbro, and cofagrigus, just to compare) he won't be doing anything useful, even with a strong ice shard, that does basically nothing to the things it handles above.
To summarize: there are MUCH better megas to use instead of abomasnow, even if you're doing trick room (mega mawile is better), and anything mega does better is evened out by the valuable roles abomasnow plays, which mega cannot do.
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