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Move Freeze Dry

What are your thoughts on Freeze Dry?

  • Even if 70 BP, hitting waters, near perfect coverage and scaring switches with freeze is a breeze

    Votes: 176 38.5%

  • I can see myself using this but not on all ice types who learn it depending on the set and mon

    Votes: 152 33.3%

  • I see this as a very niche move due to BP and other issues

    Votes: 89 19.5%

  • I don't see the merits of this move over existing options

    Votes: 18 3.9%

  • This thing is gonna get tested/banned if it has any freeze rate above or equal to 20%

    Votes: 22 4.8%
  • Total voters
    457
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Lapras is looking like a decent anti-Rain poke (against Special attackers) with its bulk, Water Absorb and now a STAB move to hit Water types.
With the Draco Meteor nerf and a 4x effective response it's looking like another full stop to Kingdra.
I'm pretty sure it could tank a Ludicolo Energy Ball as well and hit back with a 4x effective Freeze Dry.
 
There's no reason to use Freeze Dry and Ice Beam on any Lapras set unless you're looking for specific KOs that Freeze Dry can't get. Freeze Dry and a Water move get perfect coverage outside of Jynx and Shedinja anyway.
 
Arcticblast said:
There's no reason to use Freeze Dry and Ice Beam on any Lapras set unless you're looking for specific KOs that Freeze Dry can't get. Freeze Dry and a Water move get perfect coverage outside of Jynx and Shedinja anyway.
Click to expand...

Perhaps not-- I like the sound of an optional swap-between Ice Beam and Freeze-Dry because Lapras's damage output isn't exactly top tier. You could always run an additional status move if the fancy takes you but Lapras isn't exactly suffering four-moveslot syndrome anyway
 
I mean to be fair it's not like Lapras really has much else to run in the moveslot, Thunderbolt doesn't really hit anything notable Freeze Dry doesn't, I haven't checked to see if you can breed Dragon Pulse onto Lappy but it's also in the same boat really.

Freeze Dry / Surf / Ancient Power hits everything in the game for neutral coverage so your last slot can either be Ice Beam to hit anything naturally weak to Ice harder than FD does, Hydro Pump to do the same thing but with Surf or, I dunno, Perish Song? Maybe Psychic if you want to hit fighting and poison types super effectively.
 
By using Freeze Dry over Ice Beam / Thunderbolt (and a Modest 252 SpAtk investment), you're missing out on the OHKOs on:
  • Aerodactyl
  • Tangrowth
  • Exeggutor
  • Sawsbuck
And you turned guaranteed OHKOs into 'potential' OHKOs (Either an OHKO or a 2HKO depending on luck) on:
  • Thundurus-T
  • Lilligant
  • Haxorus
  • Breloom
  • Dragonite
  • Shiftry
  • Victreebel
 
Okuu said:
By using Freeze Dry over Ice Beam / Thunderbolt
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Ice Beam/Freeze Dry >>>>>> Ice Beam/Thunderbolt on Lapras. The only things Thunderbolt hits harder are Steel, Fire and Ice, which Surf/Hydro Pump takes care of, and with STAB on Freeze Dry even neutral hits are won by the latter. Moreover, unlike Tbolt, Freeze Dry can murder Water/Ground, Water/Grass and Water/Dragon, as well as hit Water/Electric for super-effective.

It may look counterproductive to have two Ice-type moves, but Freeze Dry is a very special case that warrants being slotted with Ice Beam if the latter wins KOs.
 
To be fair, Freeze Dry does fail to 2HKO a lot of things that Ice Beam can...
  • Venusaur
  • Zapdos
  • Virizion
  • Hippowdon
  • Latias
  • Venomoth
  • Toxicroak
  • Alakazam
  • Azelf
  • Accelgor
  • Togekiss
  • Roserade
  • Rotom-C
  • Gengar
  • Medicham
  • Skarmory
  • Shaymin
(As with last post, just being lazy and using honko)
 
Okuu said:
To be fair, Freeze Dry does fail to 2HKO a lot of things that Ice Beam can...
  • Venusaur
  • Zapdos
  • Virizion
  • Hippowdon
  • Latias
  • Venomoth
  • Toxicroak
  • Alakazam
  • Azelf
  • Accelgor
  • Togekiss
  • Roserade
  • Rotom-C
  • Gengar
  • Medicham
  • Skarmory
  • Shaymin
(As with last post, just being lazy and using honko)
Click to expand...
That's why I'm saying, both Ice Beam and Freeze Dry can be used, rather than Ice Beam and Thunderbolt.

Freeze Dry is, on Lapras, significantly better than Thunderbolt.
 
Thunderbolt hits Steel-types and Fire Types for neutral. Ice Beam / Freeze Dry is just asking to be walled by Heatran (with Pokebank), or Volcarona.
 
Freeze Dry
Ice Beam
Surf / Hydro Pump
Ancient Power / Psychic / Thunderbolt / Non-damaging move

I'm just not seeing anything that walls this that otherwise wouldn't if you had Thunderbolt. Although even then if there honestly is something significant; you have an extra moveslot if you don't care about Jynx/Shedinja/hitting Fighting/Poison SE

Dragontamer said:
Thunderbolt hits Steel-types and Fire Types for neutral. Ice Beam / Freeze Dry is just asking to be walled by Heatran (with Pokebank), or Volcarona.
Click to expand...

why would you think using heatran to try and wall a water type a good idea
 
Is there anything in OU that can really abuse this attack? (If Articuno's all we got... Talonflame, MegaLucario, Tyranitar, Heatran, Scarf Excadrill, etc.) Base 70 power is kind of underwhelming too in terms of offense. Is the freeze chance 30%, because I'd find it worth while then (freezes spreading quicker than you can say Scald!). Although, I wish better Pokemon got the attack overall...
 
Memorization. If I notice that Lapras has used 4 different attacks, and none of them was a water attack... I'd probably figure it out eventually. Its not like Lapras is doing enough damage to my team that I wouldn't figure it out eventually.

According to Smogon sets, Lapras's bread and butter is Thunderbolt / Ice Beam. Sounds similar to Starmie actually, and once I know that Starmie isn't running Hydropump / surf (ie: Bolt/Beam/Recover/Rapid Spin), I know that Volcarona can set up on it. Its more of a late game choice, but yes, I've done it before successfully.

Generally, a Starmie that resorts to Thunderbolt vs a Steel pokemon / or Ice Beam vs a bulky Ground Water (non Gastrodon) probably doesn't have Surf / Hydro Pump. I'm assuming that Lapras can be similarly "felt out" safely early on with other teammates.

Again, its not like Lapras does enough damage off those stats...
 
I don't think this would be a problem if Freeze Dry were just a bit more powerful, like 75 or 80 BP. Freeze Dry will probably only be used if a team really wants to land a 4x attack that normally wouldn't be possible. Otherwise, Ice Beam would just be a stronger option.
 
Out of boredom, I decided to attempt to breed Freeze Dry onto several non-Ice candidates in the Monster egg group (Helioptile, Tropius, Mareep, Kangaskhan, and Squirtle, by name), but none of them can learn it.

EDIT: The Nidorans don't get it either.
EDIT2: Also tested Bulbasaur, Charmander, and Slowpoke. None of them get it. (However, I did find out that Charmander gets Ancient Power by breeding, just like in G5)
 
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Dragontamer said:
Memorization. If I notice that Lapras has used 4 different attacks, and none of them was a water attack... I'd probably figure it out eventually. Its not like Lapras is doing enough damage to my team that I wouldn't figure it out eventually.

According to Smogon sets, Lapras's bread and butter is Thunderbolt / Ice Beam. Sounds similar to Starmie actually, and once I know that Starmie isn't running Hydropump / surf (ie: Bolt/Beam/Recover/Rapid Spin), I know that Volcarona can set up on it. Its more of a late game choice, but yes, I've done it before successfully.

Generally, a Starmie that resorts to Thunderbolt vs a Steel pokemon / or Ice Beam vs a bulky Ground Water (non Gastrodon) probably doesn't have Surf / Hydro Pump. I'm assuming that Lapras can be similarly "felt out" safely early on with other teammates.

Again, its not like Lapras does enough damage off those stats...
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A: Using last gen as a baseline for a pokemon with a gamechanging new move is sort of silly. Lapras, with Freeze Dry, has what it's never had before: a niche. I struggle to think of a better counter to opposing Water types than one that absorbs their STAB, 4x resists the most common coverage option waters have in Ice, hits them super-effectively with STAB and even hits threats usually neutral or immune to Water's weaknesses (such as those with ground and dragon secondary types) especially hard. This year's Lapras is not last year's Lapras and shouldn't be treated as such.

B: You're right that Lapras's offensive stats aren't terrific, but even if it doesn't pan out in OU, there's a whole world of fun in the lower tiers that Lapras has never seen. That's the beautiful thing about competitive pokemon, it doesn't have to be on steroids to be viable (god, I might actually have to go to OU if Crobat's moved, I need my main mon). Freeze Dry is a brilliant move and Lapras is the best user of it from what I've seen.
 
Lapras will probably have a niche in OU as an anti-rain pokemon thanks to Water Absorb and Freeze Dry. Its type is fantastic for countering rain teams, both offensively and defensively, and unlike Jynx it actually has great bulk. Even though it's weak to electric, no electric type in OU (especially Rotom-W) will enjoy a STAB Freeze Dry.
HydraRest with Surf+Freeze Dry will probably be its bread and butter set in this generation.
 
Garchompi said:
Lapras will probably have a niche in OU as an anti-rain pokemon thanks to Water Absorb and Freeze Dry. Its type is fantastic for countering rain teams, both offensively and defensively, and unlike Jynx it actually has great bulk. Even though it's weak to electric, no electric type in OU (especially Rotom-W) will enjoy a STAB Freeze Dry.
HydraRest with Surf+Freeze Dry will probably be its bread and butter set in this generation.
Click to expand...
Well, it can't have Water Absorb and Hydration simultaneously, and also due to the Drizzle nerf Hydra Rest isn't anyone's definition of reliable. Rest Talk with Freeze Dry and Surf might do great in the lower tiers, though, thanks to the Great Sleep Shift of Gen V being removed.

Lapras really wishes it had Calm Mind, though.

(or quiver dance lol)
 
JayHankEdLyon said:
Well, it can't have Water Absorb and Hydration simultaneously, and also due to the Drizzle nerf Hydra Rest isn't anyone's definition of reliable. Rest Talk with Freeze Dry and Surf might do great in the lower tiers, though, thanks to the Great Sleep Shift of Gen V being removed.

Lapras really wishes it had Calm Mind, though.

(or quiver dance lol)
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What if he ran Rain Dance? Hydration/RD/Rest/FD/Surf would be an excellent bulky weather setter, which just might be seen more in OU if people are serious about keeping their rain teams. Plus, Freeze Dry allows it to hit Kingdra and Gyrados (fairly certain that's spelled wrong) for 4x if they want to counter rain.
 
Jexulus said:
What if he ran Rain Dance? Hydration/RD/Rest/FD/Surf would be an excellent bulky weather setter, which just might be seen more in OU if people are serious about keeping their rain teams. Plus, Freeze Dry allows it to hit Kingdra and Gyrados (fairly certain that's spelled wrong) for 4x if they want to counter rain.
Click to expand...
Yes, it's viable, but rain dance turns it from a pokemon that benefits from opposing water attacks to a pokemon that takes neutral damage from them.

Which isn't to say that its role as weather-setter wouldn't be great on rain teams, but I can't help but think there are better rainers even considering Freeze Dry. Vaporeon and Manaphy (if the latter's de-ubered for no perma-rain) have better stat distribution defensively (and offensively for Mana) and none of the downsides that come with the secondary Ice type. There's also Swift Swimmers who enjoy instant sweepage.

Again, I don't think Lapras would be a BAD weather-setter, and Freeze Dry improves it in this role dramatically, but I think it's best used to shore up water-weak teams. That's where it's most unique, because unlike the Jellicents and Gastrodons of the world it can do way more to opposing waters than stalling with Toxic.

(pun unintentional but appreciated enough to keep)
 
So anyways, speaking of anything other than Lapras... How about that Vanilluxe? Autotomize/Freeze-Dry/Flash Cannon/Uh... Taunt? Its stats are very workable but its main flaw is it's a damn ice cream. And it's got a movepool marginally better than Feebas.
 
Martingale said:
So anyways, speaking of anything other than Lapras... How about that Vanilluxe? Autotomize/Freeze-Dry/Flash Cannon/Uh... Taunt? Its stats are very workable but its main flaw is it's a damn ice cream. And it's got a movepool marginally better than Feebas.
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Sorry, I keep harping on Lapras because with the possible exception of Articuno it's the only user who doesn't totally suck.

Even looking past appearances, Vanilluxe is a pure-Ice without the defenses to make up for such a wretched typing, whose best coverage options (I'm flat-out ignoring nerfed Hidden Power and Water Pulse given their low BP) leave it totally walled by Steel and Fire, neither of which is particularly uncommon. Both, by the way, eat the ice cream in return. It can boost its speed, but not its Special Attack, which is good at 110 but will hardly KO threats with 70+STAB and 80 BP moves. Lapras may only have average offense, but it can take hits and is a feasible user of Rest even outside of rain, not to mention Water Absorb shenanigans.

Even in the lower tiers, Steel and Fire aren't exactly rare, and given both resist the new Fairy type they can only get more common (I don't think the change will be TOO significant but they certainly won't get rarer).
 
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