Other Viable Megas

[Dragontamer]

+1 Mega Medicham Hi Jump Kick cleanly OHKO's Skarmory. (yeah, Bulk Up)

Mega Medicham
252 Atk / Stuff
------------
Bulk Up
Hi Jump Kick
????
????

I don't even know what else goes there. I mean, just fuck... how do you deal with that? Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Drain Punch (maybe an egg move) are all excellent options as well. I guess Ice Punch for fliers, Fire Punch for Aegislash?

Off 100 base speed, Mega Medicham probably deserves more chatter around here. He doesn't have quite the movepool of Mega Khangaskhan, but High Jump Kick spam probably will wreak teams.

 

[farranpoison]

+1 Mega Medicham Hi Jump Kick cleanly OHKO's Skarmory. (yeah, Bulk Up)

Mega Medicham
252 Atk / Stuff
------------
Bulk Up
Hi Jump Kick
????
????

I don't even know what else goes there. I mean, just fuck... how do you deal with that? Ice Punch, Fire Punch, Drain Punch (maybe an egg move) are all excellent options as well. I guess Ice Punch for fliers, Fire Punch for Aegislash?

Off 100 base speed, Mega Medicham probably deserves more chatter around here. He doesn't have quite the movepool of Mega Khangaskhan, but High Jump Kick spam probably will wreak teams.

Careful of Ghosts or Protect users. You can't really HJK spam with those around, Huge Power or no.

 

[TheMohZone]

so Basically team Mega Medicham with Tyranitar and watch everything Die.....something tells me its not that easy.

There is a little something stopping fighting types being as good as they can be, Which would be Talonflame and Mega Pinsir (To a lesser extent) Unless they are dealt with as well sweeping won't be easy. so for mega medicham to sweep you need to remove anything that out speeds, Ghosts, Priority users ESPECIALLY the aforementioned ans Azumarill.......yeah thats alot of peoples whole teams minus walls....Which is Megachams true purpose. it can Crush ANY wall in its path and clear the path for an actual sweeper like say....i dunno DD Dragonite. I mean the wall you just came in to beat is probably the best thing they have to take a hit. Minus Ghosts, so your foe won't be keen to switch out, or if you got in on something else will be their priority to switch in. as mentioned a +1 HJK is a OKHO on Skarmory, but say +0 on an Adamant wallbreaker....

252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 220-261 (67.27 - 79.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
On Switch in its dead, and you will get a second one off before he can roost. if he was already out and Roosts up......thats a war you will eventually win, or he will phase you out and if you get lucky you theoretical second sweeper can come in. if not theres always next time.

How about another Premier OU wall?
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 249-294 (59.28 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pretty Much the same thing.


Using Medicham as a sweeper is a fools errand, its fast but not fast enough. it is however an excellent wall breaker. thats should be its main use.

 

[Dragontamer]

With Sticky Web support, he outspeeds all non-fliers, and all scarf-users under base 100 speed. And with a Bulk Up, he survives 252+ Life Orb Shadow Sneak from Aegislash, CB Bullet Punch Scizor, and CB Aqua Jet Azumarril. He survives Mega-Lucario ExtremeSpeed, and outspeeds Mega-Lucario with Sticky Web support. Mega-Gengar is on the ground now, so if Mega-Gengar switches in, he's also outsped by Medicham.

+1 Ice Punch OHKOs Hippo, +1 Fire Punch OHKOs Aegislash / Skarmory. +1 HJK seems to deal with everyone else.

Mega Medicham is toeing the line between "possible sweeper" and "possible wall breaker". With Sticky Web support, the only pokemon he has to deal with are fliers.

As for Talonflame... yeah, its a threat. But Talonflame pretty much owns every damn mega out there... OHKOing MBlaziken, MGengar, M-Mawile, M-Pinsir, M-Heracross, M-Scizor, M-Gardevoir with a lol I go first Priority Brave Bird or Flare Blitz. After a Swords Dance, +2 Talonflame OHKOs MKhangaskan and MGarchomp, so even the bulkier Megas fail to counter Talonflame. Being "weak" to Brave Bird or Flying Gem Talonflame is a position that MOST pokemon (hell, most Megas) will have to deal with (with exception of lol M-Aggron and Tyranitar, who resists Fire/Flying).

 

[TheMohZone]

Huh its bulkier than i thought. okay point taken. but i guess theres another problem. You need to get sticky web up which means You need to have Galvantula, Smeargle or the others who get the move who somehow suck more ass than these two. you then need to block the spin and set up and with Defog around you can't guarantee that. still i really do see its viability now, even if i'm a skeptic to its effectiveness in practice.

 

[Dragontamer]

Its not so much that Medicham is bulky... it is that his best +Stat move is Bulk Up, and it turns out that +1 is enough for him to OHKO the massive walls of OU.

The "side effect" of +1 Def allows him to survive. With +1 Def, he gets to the level of ~+0 Garchomp. But its enough to help him sweep. Another note, is that Mega-Medicham utterly owns "Bulky Offense" Teams. He outruns everyone considered "bulky" except Garchomp... and basically OHKOs everyone too.

 

[Ewil]

Personally, i've tried DD M-Tyranitar as a late game sweeper. If you can create the right situation, is almost impossibile to beat.
He's basically weak only to Powerful Fighting STAB moves and to STAB Earthquakes coming from high ATK pokemon (and pretty fast too lol).
Swithing in on things like Talonflame is pretty sweet since he resists both of hhis STABs and is able to setup a DD and start wreckin' things.

I've built a team around and it gets me to 1900+ pretty fast.

Another things that i found awesome about megas is the fact that you can bluff the mega in the team preview, playing 2 or more pkmn with a possible mega plays a pretty good mind game with your opponent.

 

[MechPlasma]

The problem is that you need to first put down sticky web, then Bulk Up. Here's a list of things that can go wrong, any one of which will likely cost you the game:

1: Your bug doesn't get Sticky Web out.
2: The opponent does not set up on your bug.
3: Rapid Spin.
4: Defog.
6: Sticky Web.
7: Trick Room, that you can't wait out.
8: Being outsmarted by Aegislash.
9: You don't actually have a good opponent to set up Medicham on. Which is a bit likely, when you've only got 4 other good Pokémon.
10: Not being able to counter whatever the enemy's own cheap strategy is.
11: 10% chance of Hi Jump Kick failing horribly.

But the biggest issue is that it's taking two turns just to set up. A lot of Megas can destroy the competition, including Medicham, after two turns anyway! +4atk Mawile (priority), +4atk or +4spa Lucario (priority), +4atk Scizor (that's priority too), +2def baton-passed to Aggron (against Physicals anyway, not that this is a good strategy)... and that's just the Steel ones!

 

[Dragontamer]

Erm, +4 Mega Lucario is nothing like Sticky Web. Your opponent has to waste a turn using a worthless attack to get rid of Sticky Web. All you have to do to get rid of +4 Lucario is revenge-kill it with Brave Bird Talonflame. Sticky Web doesn't go away after you're revenge killed.

Anyway, +1 / +1 Medicham breaks walls harder than +2 Kangaskhan... Its not like +2 Kangaskhan actually OHKOs Hippowdon or Skarmory. (Yes, I know Kangaskhan has more "paper" attack / defense, but Medicham has a 130 BP attack called Hi Jump Kick). And before setting up, +0 Medicham is most definitely more powerful than +0 Mega Kangaskhan. After the Bulk Up, Medicham has higher physical defenses than Kangaskhan and better attack to boot. Even if Sticky Web doesn't go off, he's at least as viable as Mega-Kangaskhan on paper... who runs the same speed.

Different pokemon, different results, different movesets.

 

[Reikai]

Just coming thorugh...

 

[Captain Awesome]

MManetric is also really exciting. 135 base speed and 135 base SpA? Kind of crazy - he's perfect for OU, especially with intimidate, an ability which will let him force switches and prevent easy counters that try to throw an EQ at him. Notable moves are:

Overheat / Flamethrower
Thunderbolt / Volt Switch (abuse that intimidate by switching frequently)
Ice Fang (Garchomp/Dragonite) / Crunch (Can we come up with a mixed Manetric that can OHKO Megagengar? It outspeeds it, so it's a pretty good counter to consider)
Quick Attack / Roar / Light Screen / Switcheroo
.

First of all, Switcheroo would always fail because it would deprive Manectric of its Manectite.
Secondly, why would you use it when you could just use literally anything else with a Life Orb and outpower it? LO Jolteon has a stronger Thunderbolt and Scarf Rotom-H can actually, you know, use Trick. It's shit; if not for that than because it wastes your Mega Slot.

 

[MechPlasma]

Mega Lati@s confirmed by Smea

Oh geez. OH GEEZ. Oh, that is going to be a pr-

Oh, right. Dragon nerf.

Incidentally, it looks like they Mega-Evolve into the same Pokémon.

 

[Jaroda]

so Basically team Mega Medicham with Tyranitar and watch everything Die.....something tells me its not that easy.

There is a little something stopping fighting types being as good as they can be, Which would be Talonflame and Mega Pinsir (To a lesser extent) Unless they are dealt with as well sweeping won't be easy. so for mega medicham to sweep you need to remove anything that out speeds, Ghosts, Priority users ESPECIALLY the aforementioned ans Azumarill.......yeah thats alot of peoples whole teams minus walls....Which is Megachams true purpose. it can Crush ANY wall in its path and clear the path for an actual sweeper like say....i dunno DD Dragonite. I mean the wall you just came in to beat is probably the best thing they have to take a hit. Minus Ghosts, so your foe won't be keen to switch out, or if you got in on something else will be their priority to switch in. as mentioned a +1 HJK is a OKHO on Skarmory, but say +0 on an Adamant wallbreaker....

252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 224 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 220-261 (67.27 - 79.81%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
On Switch in its dead, and you will get a second one off before he can roost. if he was already out and Roosts up......thats a war you will eventually win, or he will phase you out and if you get lucky you theoretical second sweeper can come in. if not theres always next time.

How about another Premier OU wall?
252+ Atk Pure Power Mega Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 249-294 (59.28 - 70%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Pretty Much the same thing.


Using Medicham as a sweeper is a fools errand, its fast but not fast enough. it is however an excellent wall breaker. thats should be its main use.

out of curiosity how does it look vs max df impish Filter Mega Aggron? Also, does Sturdy Avalugg KO with Avalance?

 

[Punchshroom]

I think you are overrating gengar.
....Really?

Gengar hits nowhere nearly as hard as LO Kyurem W.
Kyurem has Draco Meteor (195BP), Ice Beam (135), Fusion Flare(100) on top of LO.
Let's totally forget that Mega-Gengar can single out its targets to ensure they get KOed by its attacks anyway, and that LO Kyurem-W is not as hard to outspeed and can be pivoted into, unlike Mega-Gar. These two do totally different things anyway.

Gengar's strongest move has 120 BP.
Incorrect, MegaGar does have access to Sludge Bomb to pack just that bit of extra punch, though Shadow Ball will always be on MegaGar.

LO gengar hits 467 attack while Gengar-mega only hits 439 attack.
Gengar-mega is actually weaker than LO Gengar.
By how much, 7% in damage? In exchange for outspeeding more threats and gain the ability to trap? Why not?

Gengar-mega is very good, but it's good not because of its offense, but because of its ability to trap.
There's no denying that Gengar is already a veritable offensive threat, what with the buff to both its Ghost and Poison STAB. The ability to trap was much more than just a bonus though.

However, Gengar-mega can only trap after it has already transformed. That means you have to waste a turn or an opportunity to evolve your gengar to trap in the future.
You make it sound as if Gengar is just good for trapping, which it is not. Ghost + Fighting coverage coming from 130 / 170 SpA is still hard to deal with.

While Gengar-mega can being very useful, Kangashkhan is sheer power.
Did you know that when Kangaskhan Mega-Evolves, it can no longer touch the Grass/Ghosts nor the Levitating Ghosts? The Grass/Ghosts can burn Mega-Kanga and dodge Sucker Punch. Very ironically, Gengar can easily set up a Substitute (if it has it) without Mega-Evolving (if Kanga has Earthquake at all). Aegislash caneasily Swords Dance in Kanga's face until it comes time to slash Kanga, but the latter won't know when. In fact, the presence of most Ghosts can make evolving Kanga into a downright liability, which is not a quality a MegaPokemon should possess.

 

[Dragontamer]

There is good reason to fear Shadow Tag. When a crappier, conditional trap move (Arena Trap) is put onto an otherwise crappy pokemon (Dugtrio has 405 BST... fewer stats than Emolga!), it shoots up into OU Tier. Switching pokemon in and out is the bread-and-butter of Pokemon.

The only solace I have is the one-turn delay, which keeps Gengar vulnerable to Pursuit users... and also removes synergy with Volt-Turn / U-Turn / Baton Pass users. This can be dealt with if Normal-Gengar simply uses Substitute on his Mega-Transformation turn... which is in turn possible because Substitute / Disable or Perish Song / Shadow Ball / Focus Blast is a perfectly acceptable set. Another issue is that 3v3 battles is completely different than 6v6, and I'm not sure if MegaGengar will have a game-breaking effect in the 3v3 metagame.

 

[megamanz95]

Is X-Scissor actually helpful? With the fantastic coverage you get with Flying/Ground, it seems like Quick Attack might be more helpful.

Ground/Flying is actually completely ridiculous coverage; they hit literally every one of each other's resistances, so every single grounded Pokemon either gets hit neutrally by Return or super effectively by Earthquake, which is about the same damage. The only things that avoid the ~200 BP punishment are a couple of fliers like Skarmory which don't care about X-Scissor anyway, and the Levitate users that resist Flying: Rotom, Bronzong, and complete trash like Solrock. And even against Rotom and Bronzong, X-Scissor only hits for about 20% more than Return.

Night Slash is even worse, actually. Even against stuff like Gengar, it only hits for 140 BP, while Return still hits neutrally for its ridiculous 198.9 BP. I can't think of a single matchup bar Solrock and Lunatone where it'd actually be an ideal move choice.

Jesus, Mega Pinsir is ridiculous.

Yes you're right Quick Attack is more helpful. but at the moment, I don't have a way to get Quick Attack onto Pinsir. So I'm not even sure if he can get it this gen at the moment (I only have a Female Scizor and none of the other Quick attackers). But I use X-Scissor since I run Moxie Pinsir and before I Mega Evolve I can get the Moxie boost and then sweep. But when Quick attack comes, I'll add that instead.

At the moment I'm kinda trying out Moxie Pinsir. because people think Choice Scarf Pinsir switch in the Gengar I get the kill get the Moxie Boost and proceed to sweep. I'm not really Auto Mega Evolving at the moment.

 

[Adonzo]

Pinsir can learn Quick Attack via breeding with either the Scyther, Yanma, Gligar, Surskit, Volbeat, or Accelgor lines, most of which learn it by level up, and all but Accelgor can be found in XY. Plenty of opportunities for it to learn it this gen.

 

[MechPlasma]

out of curiosity how does it look vs max df impish Filter Mega Aggron?

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 283-334 (82.26 - 97.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And in reverse:
0 Atk Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 198-234 (75.57 - 89.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

[Shiruba]

Pinsir can learn Quick Attack via breeding with either the Scyther, Yanma, Gligar, Surskit, Volbeat, or Accelgor lines, most of which learn it by level up, and all but Accelgor can be found in XY. Plenty of opportunities for it to learn it this gen.

Minor nitpick, Accelgor is totally in X and Y. You catch both Karrablast and Shelmet in that place with the marsh + the Haunted House.
[played in French, sorry about not having the actual name]

 

[Χerneas]

Pinsir can learn Quick Attack via breeding with either the Scyther, Yanma, Gligar, Surskit, Volbeat, or Accelgor lines, most of which learn it by level up, and all but Accelgor can be found in XY. Plenty of opportunities for it to learn it this gen.

Both Shelmet and Karrablast are available in XY.

252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Aggron: 283-334 (82.26 - 97.09%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

And in reverse:
0 Atk Aggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Medicham: 198-234 (75.57 - 89.31%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Those look like theyre against Rock/Steel Filter Aggron?

 

[En Passant]

252+ Atk Pure Power Megacham Hi Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Filter Megaggron: 225-265 (65.4 - 77.03%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Megaggron Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Megacham: 211-249 (91.34 - 107.79%) -- 50% chance to OHKO (81.25% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
This is what I got with honka.

 

[Stone RG]

Just coming thorugh...

Oh
fuck

So... wanna predict the base stats? I say both of them will have 180 SpA and SpD respectively, and prolly 130 or 140 speed, it seems like they get more aerodynicamic.

Oh welp, as for the Medicham discussion, i say it definitely has a niche in a pokemon that completely and utterly takes a shit on stall, even more than M mawile and on the level of M garchomp imo, because it exchanges better bulk and excelent defensive typing for a STAB 130 bp attack, and more speed. Sticky web support, while often leaving you 5-6 turn 2, seems the way this guy will be played, just like a lot of megas. Talking abouts its speed, while middling, he sits at the perfectly respectable 100 tier, outrunning most of the defensive pokes found in bulky offense and having enough bulk to live at least 1 unboosted attack from the more offensive.

 

[Thorhammer]

So... wanna predict the base stats? I say both of them will have 180 SpA and SpD respectively, and prolly 130 or 140 speed, it seems like they get more aerodynicamic.

Well, they can't have 180 in both; that'd mean +50 to one stat and +70 to the other. Would be hypothetically possible with a net loss in other stats but I doubt it. Unless you just mean 180 in their select stat? That'd be more reasonable. I could see a spread like 80/100/80/170/140/130 for Latios and 80/80/100/140/170/130 for Latias.

Back on topic, as good as Sticky Web is, I'm concerned about how much you can assume it. Going 5-6 to have Sticky Web up the whole match sure is worth it, but going 5-6 to have it up just until your opponent uses Defog wouldn't be worth it at all; you can't just block Defog like you can with Rapid Spin. Not as big of an issue now, but once Pokebank opens, Defog could be on any random Latias or Gliscor or Skarmory, so it won't always even be easy to tell from Team Preview if you can start off the match with a suicide Sticky Web lead. So that'll be trouble for Medicham, and of course those Pokemon aren't the most fun for her to take on either.

 

[DreamWeaver]

Mega Bannete: This one will be better using it's mega stone for sure. The fact it gained Prankster means that moves such as will-o-wisp and trick gained priority, allowing it to have an useful niche in the metagame. It has also gotten a lot of offensive potential with it's boost on attack, so it can use sucker punch and shadow sneak effectively.

Trick is useless since Mega Banette can't trick its megastone.

 

[Dragontamer]

Back on topic, as good as Sticky Web is, I'm concerned about how much you can assume it. Going 5-6 to have Sticky Web up the whole match sure is worth it, but going 5-6 to have it up just until your opponent uses Defog wouldn't be worth it at all; you can't just block Defog like you can with Rapid Spin. Not as big of an issue now, but once Pokebank opens, Defog could be on any random Latias or Gliscor or Skarmory, so it won't always even be easy to tell from Team Preview if you can start off the match with a suicide Sticky Web lead. So that'll be trouble for Medicham, and of course those Pokemon aren't the most fun for her to take on either.

I don't think this suicide lead thing is going to pan over very well. When people play these `mon correctly (Scarf Garvantula as a revenge-check vs Gyarados: 91% Accurate CompoundEyes Thunder ain't nothing to laugh about), thats when we'll see better Sticky Web usage. You need to threaten opponents to get the free turns you need to set up these hazards.

You don't need to set up Sticky Web first... you just need to set it up sometime before your sweeper comes out. In fact, Sticky Web is probably useless in the early game when the opponent still has 6-mon who will counter any sweep attempt... that is the time where bulky-mon should be played. And bulky users don't really care about going first.

That said, the only Sticky Web user I can consider right now is Shuckle, as dumb as he is. He doesn't suicide, he accomplishes defensive feats... like coming into Mega-Gengar and gets LOL 4HKOed by Shadow Ball / 3HKOed by Parish Song. (In the sand, that turns into a 5HKO btw. If you run Leftovers instead of Binding Band, its more like a 6HKO actually). Mind you, 4HKO is enough for Shuckle to win vs Gengar with only Infestation + Binding Band, Stealth Rocks, Sandstorm and Rest. I doubt that Gengar can switch out of Infestation. (I admit, that I haven't tested this in-game yet)

Maybe Shuckle's low HP makes him a good target for Wish. But I don't see stall teams panning out well.