Pokémon Kangaskhan

[The Leprechaun]

Don't slash anything with power up punch, it is an absolute necessity. SD that goes through crap like tyranitar and balloontran with sucker punch is sort of half the reason to use the pokemon.

Slashing sub was specifically for defensive ghosts types, admittedly this isn't so relevant at this point because of the lack of Jellicent but having sub is actually a huge help against pokes such as Cofagrigus, Trevenant and Gourgeist who can easily switch in and will-o. Once you have a sub up against these mons you're pretty much golden. Also, as i suggested in the op, if you're running sub, you should also be running drain punch so you can hit the threats you mentioned. It's pretty much there in the instance that your team doesn't have a reliable way of dealing with ghosts.

 

[Hopkinc1]

Kangaskhan was one of my favorite Pokemon in the B/W Metagame because of scrappy, and it easily made a majority of my OU teams (with pretty good success mind you). However, losing scrappy is a mixed blessing. For one Parental Bond allows for two hits and for him to easily take out Pokemon like Gengar and other Ghosts with two Sucker Punches; however, now you just can't spam returns until a steel or rock type comes in and be aye-okay. I personally like that because Scrappy kind of made him idiot proof for people who are new to the game and didn't know you couldn't hit ghosts with normal type moves. However, I also like scrappy because other than Steel and Rock (which could be covered by one coverage move) Kangaskhan could rip through almost anything. I don't have a new set to talk about, and I'll probably use the return/PUP/EQ/SP set that everyone is saying to use, but I just wanted to know what all of you thought about the loss of scrappy on him for a Mega Evolution.

 

[The Leprechaun]

Forgive my ingorance on competitve Pokemon, my reasoning may hold no ground because there is still lots I have to learn, but wouldn't Nidoking pair up well with Kanga?

Nidoking@Life Orb
Nature: Modest / Timid
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
~ Earth Power
~ Sludge Wave
~ Ice Beam
~ Fire Blast

Kanga fears fighting moves, and Nidoking can take those, right?
This set also gives him great coverage, and it can deal with Fairies, if they are a problem to your team. Even if it's not, I think Sludge Wave is a great STAB move. Ice Beam and Fire Blast lets it cover bunch of other things like Scizor or Ferrothorn, and Dragons will have to fear Ice Beam.

Nidoking is not very useful in this meta game due to his low speed and lack of bulk. It may be able to take one or two fighting move but anything more than that and he'll provide little synergy. Also, his lack of momentum grabbing moves make it difficult to truly break through defensive cores such as skarm-bliss. His coverage is good however and does help to eliminate checks to kanga but this is pretty difficult seeing how predictable this pokemon is. I would actually consider a mixed set over a purely special one. This gen both Nidos got an Atk boost of 10 points. I haven't done any calcs but this could be enough to break through some of the special behemoths such as bliss, goodra, dragalge and floges. I dunno, something to think about

 

[COCKBLOCK]

Jolly or Adamant?

I'd like to see some more opinions on that.

Would Jolly get the same OHKO's as Adamant? Does Jolly Kang absolutely need to outspeed somebody Adamant Kang can't?

 

[Sheriff_K]

Would going 72Hp/180Atk/252 Speed be worth it? It'd let you survive a +2 Mega Scizors Bullet Punch. Granted you'd outspeed with Sucker Punch anyway, but there should be other things that amount of HP may help you tank.

 

[mite b cool]

gliscor is a good team mate. Soaks up fighting moves. Taunt could stop skarm and ferrothorn. Helped me demolish the Battle Maison

 

[J~mal]

Ferrothorn eats this man up! Mega Kan is allll over the place in random wifi so I quick bred up a ferrothorn with rocky helmet..its so troll to this guy! Switch in on obvious fake out is obvious, lose 5% of my health while mega kan loses 50%! Using parental bond against mega kan to the fullest, cracks me up every time.

 

[Ranevski]

Ferrothorn is definitely one of the best things to bring in on most Kangaskhan sets (and a really good pokemon in this meta period imo). It does get destroyed by Drain Punch though (which isn't that big of a deal as most people are running Earthquake instead - including myself.)

I'm praying that Klefki and Mawile usage plummets so that I can start using Drain Punch over EQ, but at the moment I see way more of them than I see Ferrothorn.

 

[J~mal]

Ferrothorn is definitely one of the best things to bring in on most Kangaskhan sets (and a really good pokemon in this meta period imo). It does get destroyed by Drain Punch though (which isn't that big of a deal as most people are running Earthquake instead - including myself.)

I'm praying that Klefki and Mawile usage plummets so that I can start using Drain Punch over EQ, but at the moment I see way more of them than I see Ferrothorn.

Totally agree with you, I use both ferro and megawile, but my megawile always gets smashed by EQ D:. Got any good checks/counters for Klefki, little guy just runs through my entire team, especially the annoying players running swagger twave sub foul play, seems like there's no decent way around it.

 

[DinaIsha]

Given the right situations, this thing is broken as hell. One of those is Sticky Web. It enables Mega Kanghaskhan to make use of its Base 100 Speed when going up against quicker switch ins. However, the Fake Out, Return, Power Up Punch, Sucker Punch set gives Aegislash a free +2 Attack or if the opponent is foolish enough, Aegislash can go +6 and spam King's Shield until Sucker Punch's PP runs out. Most Aegislashes also run Air Balloon, so Earthquake isn't viable too. So, I think it is necessary to run Rock Slide or Rock Tomb on Mega Kanghaskhan (Losing the Fake Out maybe, since it is too predictable anyway).

 

[Ranevski]

Return (or a similar strong normal move) is certainly better than any coverage move in its place (just play a handful of games on the pokebank OU ladder to see for yourself). There are many more pokemon that you cannot smash past if you lack return and just had a coverage move in it's place (Hippowdown, Rotom-W, various fighting types, soooo many more). There is no way one coverage move like Rock Slide or Ice Punch is better than the strong normal stab. The entire reason Kangaskhan runs the other moves it does is to help it hit the things Return doesn't do enough against.

Even the 'worst case scenarios' for Return are often quite good, for instance if the opponent has Skarmory I usually PuP on the switch and then land a Return for ~50% damage before getting Whirlwinded out. Chunking their physical wall for half health and not loosing anything is a pretty sweet deal. At it's best it's doing more damage to common OU pokes like Rotom-W than you could possibly do with any coverage move.

As for Return vs Facade vs Bodyslam vs Double Edge, that kind of thing is always going to be personal preference. Each has it's obvious merits, and you pick the one that you feel is the best depending on your team.

So, I think it is necessary to run Rock Slide or Rock Tomb on Mega Kanghaskhan

Why on earth would you run that if Aegisslash is your problem. If you are struggling with Ghosts who have Sub or anything else to get around suckerpunch, then you run Crunch. This has already been discussed at several points in this thread.

 

[Kyreth]

I tested on Showdown with a Team that I build in 5 min it was not that bad.

Klefki for setting up Dual Screens and Spikes. Galvantula for Sticky Web and Talonflame for Tailwind. It is a lot, but Tailwind and Sticky Web is too good to doesn't play with. I might change something, but the at the first look it looks solid.

I had problems with Venusaur. Kanga Earthquake did only about ~30-35%. The Set is 252 Atk Adamant with Fake Out, EQ, PuP and Sucker Punch. Guess it didn't had a Atk boost, but I'm shocked that it deals only 30% on Venusaur. Kanga would be broken if it has access to Fire/Ice Punch.

He's had it in the past. Mega V is just tanky as heck and can recover respectably with Drain/Leech moves, which makes it a good matchup vs. Kangaskhan. But anyone who's going "LOLAegislash" vs. Mega-K isn't realizing that double-tap with EQ means the big girl knows rule #2.

I actually like Return-EQuake-Drain Punch/PuP-Crunch on it, when the time allows again. Give it a Pass from Scolipede and it, like Talonflame will wreck face.

 

[Kyreth]

Possibly the best teammate for Kangaskhan that I've found is Scolipede, which resists Fighting, and can Baton Pass Speed and Swords Dance boosts.

As for non-obvious teammates, Shadow Ball Aegislash also makes a good partner. Luring in and weakening physical walls like Skarmory is huge for Mega Kangaskhan, and people always seem to want to send in their physical walls on Aegislash. Unfortunately for them, Gliscor, Hippowdon, and Skarmory all take huge damage from Aegislash's STAB Shadow Ball, making it much easier for Kangaskhan to sweep late-game.

Scolipede also is golden for playing mind games, especially with a few friends to Pass to. Are they going with Mega-K? Talonflame? Or is it just going to +2 Quake/Megahorn my lead? Scoli/Khan/Talonflame make an awesome offensive core and usually have the keys to unlock anything that would wall one of them. Speed boost really did make Scolipede a LOT of Pokemon's best friend.

 

[Savato93]

Fire Punch would OHKO Ferrothorn, but where does Kangaskhan get it, is it a Gen 3 or 4 Tutor? Wouldn't Drain Punch negate the Iron Barbs + Rockey Helmet killing yourself?

Health restoration is applied BEFORE Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet damage, so if the mama's at full HP, the first Drain Punch won't do jack for you. Even after that, the 1/2 damage recovered will only barely leave her standing, if it overcomes the recoil damage at all. And this is without considering that Ferrothorn may surprise you with an attack.

 

[Kyreth]

Health restoration is applied BEFORE Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet damage, so if the mama's at full HP, the first Drain Punch won't do jack for you. Even after that, the 1/2 damage recovered will only barely leave her standing, if it overcomes the recoil damage at all. And this is without considering that Ferrothorn may surprise you with an attack.

This is yet another reason I like having a non-contact move on Kangaskhan. Having Ferrothorn switch into a PuP at least means your second attack is a +2 or more Earthquake or whatever move of choice you've got up there, letting you have a chance to deliver some more hurt without getting another painful backlash from hammering on the pain-giving hate that is Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn. Once is more than enough. Incidentally, even the first Drain Punch will have an healing effect- the first hit will of course do it's full woeful damage, but the secondary hit is after Barbs/Helmet procs once, right?

 

[Sheriff_K]

Health restoration is applied BEFORE Iron Barbs and Rocky Helmet damage, so if the mama's at full HP, the first Drain Punch won't do jack for you. Even after that, the 1/2 damage recovered will only barely leave her standing, if it overcomes the recoil damage at all. And this is without considering that Ferrothorn may surprise you with an attack.

Unless Kangaskhan switched into Hazards, Iron Barbs + Rocky Helmet only do ~50% damage w/ Parental Bond. And if there was Hazards, the heal from the first Punch isn't wasted. But the second Punch would do barely any healing, that's true..

 

[Tathens]

Am I the only one investing more HP in Mega-Kanga for the bulk since he has Sucker Punch (less speed investment)?

 

[welsknight]

This is the Kangaskhan I've been using, to some success. Thoughts?

B@st@rd Kangaskhan

Kangaskhan (F) @ Kangaskhanite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Power-Up Punch
- Sucker Punch
- Fire Punch (Interchangeable with Ice Punch/Thunder Punch)
- Drain Punch

On my team, my Scolipede passes it speed boosts and occasionally a Swords Dance with Baton Pass, and then Mega-Kangaskhan goes to town. After testing every set of physical moves I could think of, this was the one I settled on.

Also, I noticed that on Pokemon Showdown, Earthquake does NOT hit twice. Is this a glitch, or intentional?

Sorry if any of this has already been covered, I need to go to bed (like 2 hours ago, actually) and don't have time to sift through 15 pages.

 

[bwebber]

Apart from hitting Gengar and Alakazam, what're the merits of using Sucker Punch over Crunch? I've found the former to be unreliable against defensive ghosts, especially those with Will-O-Wisp. On top of that, I feel like MegaKanga already out speeds everything it needs to beat, or is bulky enough to go 1v1 vs some threats, and Sucker Punch really doesn't do much to alleviate its speed.

 

[vBlue]

I've dropped Sucker Punch myself for my wifi Kanga. It always leads to a guessing game against smarter opponents when it would be much more beneficial to just add more coverage to my already fast Mega. I wanted to drop Fake Out as well but it's so often that I can get a kill with PUP due to the damage from Fake Out which allows me a completely free boost. The combo of Fake Out/ PUP is one of M-Kanga's most powerful aspects in my opinion and simply cannot be skipped. I also run Return, although I'm tempted to breed for Double-Edge for the 3v3 environment, and Earthquake because everything is weak against Earthquake right now and it doesn't trigger contact abilities. I get completely stopped by Ghosts with Levitate or Ghost/Flying, but it doesn't matter when no one uses any of them.

 

[farranpoison]

I've dropped Sucker Punch myself for my wifi Kanga. It always leads to a guessing game against smarter opponents when it would be much more beneficial to just add more coverage to my already fast Mega. I wanted to drop Fake Out as well but it's so often that I can get a kill with PUP due to the damage from Fake Out which allows me a completely free boost. The combo of Fake Out/ PUP is one of M-Kanga's most powerful aspects in my opinion and simply cannot be skipped. I also run Return, although I'm tempted to breed for Double-Edge for the 3v3 environment, and Earthquake because everything is weak against Earthquake right now and it doesn't trigger contact abilities. I get completely stopped by Ghosts with Levitate or Ghost/Flying, but it doesn't matter when no one uses any of them.

Uh. Gengar?

Anyway I don't see the merit in running PUP on MKangakshan. MKangaskhan wants to hit hard and hit hard now. Setting up to +2 with PUP sounds nice on paper, but in reality it's letting the opponent bring in a check or counter when what you could have been doing is dealing a crapton of damage on their switch-in. I've done it myself when facing a MKangaskhan while using MMawile. They PUP, I SD, and then +2 Sucker Punch ruins their day.

Also Sucker Punch is a must. Although MKangaskhan enjoys a nice speed boost after Mega Evolving, it's still pretty slow. Sucker Punch is essential to nab those last KOs or to deal more damage before going down swinging.

Also never use Bulldoze. The -2 Speed is not worth the loss of Earthquakes nice 100 BP.

 

[Shroomisaur]

Uh. Gengar?

Anyway I don't see the merit in running PUP on MKangakshan. MKangaskhan wants to hit hard and hit hard now. Setting up to +2 with PUP sounds nice on paper, but in reality it's letting the opponent bring in a check or counter when what you could have been doing is dealing a crapton of damage on their switch-in. I've done it myself when facing a MKangaskhan while using MMawile. They PUP, I SD, and then +2 Sucker Punch ruins their day.

Also Sucker Punch is a must. Although MKangaskhan enjoys a nice speed boost after Mega Evolving, it's still pretty slow. Sucker Punch is essential to nab those last KOs or to deal more damage before going down swinging.

Also never use Bulldoze. The -2 Speed is not worth the loss of Earthquakes nice 100 BP.

If you don't see the merit in PuP, you've obviously never used MegaKahn. It needs the extra boost to power through most things. Without attack boosts, it's effectively a Choice Banded 125 Atk Pokemon that can switch moves, it gets walled by standard physical walls and will never get through them without PuP. Your Mawile scenario is pretty irrelevant because if Kanga switches in it's not going to win that matchup no matter what it does. If Mawile tries to switch into Kanga though, the best course of action is PuP, then EQ will score the KO. Going straight for the EQ will result in will 2HKO as well but Kanga will be left at +0 instead of +2 afterwards.

Also without a boost, Kanga's Sucker Punch is far too weak to take out faster threats. Kangaskahn really needs Sucker Punch, despite its unreliability, because even with Jolly (which I greatly prefer over adamant) it is often outsped. 4MSS is bad, because it would love to run both EQ (for Aegis and Mawile) and Crunch (for Gengar & co.) but your choice will leave you walled by something. Fire Punch will be nice, once it gets released anyway.

 

[bwebber]

Anyway I don't see the merit in running PUP on MKangakshan. MKangaskhan wants to hit hard and hit hard now. Setting up to +2 with PUP sounds nice on paper, but in reality it's letting the opponent bring in a check or counter when what you could have been doing is dealing a crapton of damage on their switch-in. I've done it myself when facing a MKangaskhan while using MMawile. They PUP, I SD, and then +2 Sucker Punch ruins their day.

Because you shouldn't try to set up on something that can clearly beat you. You simply used an example where your opponent made a blunder and it doesn't really say anything about the merits of the move. PuP from my experience is a deadly weapon on Kanga; since the second hit gets boosted, you're dealing with an attack that essentially has 70 BP, and you're +2 afterwards. So, in practice, you're effectively combining Brick Break and Swords Dance, AND you break Sashes, Sturdy, and Subs. It's an outstanding move; you just have to know that you can't set up on everything, which your opponent clearly didn't. One on one, I've beaten Skarmory with it, of all things.

Also Sucker Punch is a must. Although MKangaskhan enjoys a nice speed boost after Mega Evolving, it's still pretty slow. Sucker Punch is essential to nab those last KOs or to deal more damage before going down swinging.

What exactly are you going to be KOing with it? It's not strong enough to KO anything that has half decent defenses unless you hit SE. SubDisable Gengar, even the normal version, beats Kanga regardless. Alakazam and Latios, sure. You beat Espeon even without Sucker Punch. Earthquake hits Aegislash, Metagross, Jirachi harder. You've got non-SubDisable Gengar, Alakazam, and Latios where Sucker Punch would be better than Crunch, but honestly, there's far more effective ways to take those things down. Relying on Sucker Punch to beat ghosts leaves you horribly vulnerable to Will-O-Wisping ghosts, which for all we know will end up more common as a group than Gengar/Alakazam/Latios (and there's the whole Gengar-to-ubers thing).

 

[S0L1D G0LD]

Apart from hitting Gengar and Alakazam, what're the merits of using Sucker Punch over Crunch? I've found the former to be unreliable against defensive ghosts, especially those with Will-O-Wisp. On top of that, I feel like MegaKanga already out speeds everything it needs to beat, or is bulky enough to go 1v1 vs some threats, and Sucker Punch really doesn't do much to alleviate its speed.

Uh, everything. It gives you, in addition to strong coverage, much needed priority.

 

[preserve]

So power up punch and sucker punch are pretty much the moves that mega kangaskhan should always use. So that leaves two more attacks. Trevenant is a good check to those not using crunch but that leaves you somewhat walled by aeigslash if you aren't running earthquake. You can run power up punch, sucker punch, earthquake and crunch, but you will be missing out on a powerful stab move like return.