Oh, I was not suggesting that at all. I was just saying that he has uses, not that Breloom is invalidated because of him countering it.
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Pokémon Chesnaught (Revamp Occurring)
- Thread starter Psylink
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I was referring to the talk about him walling or not walling Greninja. I totally see why you thought I meant your point, should've quoted lol.
But yeah, I agree with you, they're similar but function in completely different ways
well may be for special greninja, but a protean physical greninja will be able to take it out with 1 aerial ace, as both seed bomb and hammer arm are going to be resisted by his now flying type resistance.
And it most certainly cannot stomach a stab ice beam...
Unless Chesnaught or Breloom becomes a big time threat, I doubt physical greninja would run a flying type attack.
Edit: Aside from sets based around acrobatics which should be predictable after seeing damage outputs.
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Besides, SPIKY SHIELD then swap. Turns Acrobatics against him, then gets to tag out.
Honestly, and it's been said before, listing random Pokemon that can beat him is very, very counter productive to any sort of conversation. He has no place fighting Greninja. There is no reason to mention that a random Greninja set can beat him. That does not make him bad that he cannot beat Greninja with Ice Beam or Acrobatics (of all things). Tyranitar is walled by a few choice things, and is forced to switch. That does not detract from the many things Ttar does right.
Chesnaught is a physical tank, with a good defensive typing and surprisingly decent offensive one. He has a workable movepool, and has access to both Spikes and a healing move, an ability that allows him to neutralize quite a few attacks, lending him great switch-ins, and a pretty good signature ability.
He also has many weaknesses. 4x weak to Flying, weakness to the new Fairy, can't take special attacks, slow as dirt (but not slow enough to take advantage of) and the biggest issue, competition. He has to compete with Ferrothorn (and his 4x Fire weak), along with a host of other defensive pokes that I don't quite feel like bringing up.
Some may feel that he might go out like Torterra, but that may not be true (it might be, we'll see). Mind you, Torterra does a lot right, but what he does wrong makes him suffer, and he offers nothing unique, unlike Chesnaught. He can stop a few attacks solid, make a few more invalid, and is able to do his job. He's a niche Pokemon. He can most certainly work in OU, though he may not be everyone's first choice. Many UU pokes are like that.
I most certainly don't have everything, I may be off on a few things, and I am not the best battler, but correct me if I'm wrong, this is the best way to evaluate a mon. Saying (paraphrased) "it sucks because it's has a 4X weakness (since apparently many pokes don't), and there are pokes that can beat it every time (so it's not an uber, then).
If it were a physical wall weak to common physical attacks, then yeah (like a Fire/Flying wall). But saying that a physical tank is weak to a mainly special sweeper is...weird.
Sorry for the wall-o-text.
EDIT: Sorry, Nykheros, I misread your post, you weren't stating that Chesnaught is bad because it can't beat Greninja at all. Still, there were others making similar posts, so I guess the point stands with them instead.
Honestly, and it's been said before, listing random Pokemon that can beat him is very, very counter productive to any sort of conversation. He has no place fighting Greninja. There is no reason to mention that a random Greninja set can beat him. That does not make him bad that he cannot beat Greninja with Ice Beam or Acrobatics (of all things). Tyranitar is walled by a few choice things, and is forced to switch. That does not detract from the many things Ttar does right.
Chesnaught is a physical tank, with a good defensive typing and surprisingly decent offensive one. He has a workable movepool, and has access to both Spikes and a healing move, an ability that allows him to neutralize quite a few attacks, lending him great switch-ins, and a pretty good signature ability.
He also has many weaknesses. 4x weak to Flying, weakness to the new Fairy, can't take special attacks, slow as dirt (but not slow enough to take advantage of) and the biggest issue, competition. He has to compete with Ferrothorn (and his 4x Fire weak), along with a host of other defensive pokes that I don't quite feel like bringing up.
Some may feel that he might go out like Torterra, but that may not be true (it might be, we'll see). Mind you, Torterra does a lot right, but what he does wrong makes him suffer, and he offers nothing unique, unlike Chesnaught. He can stop a few attacks solid, make a few more invalid, and is able to do his job. He's a niche Pokemon. He can most certainly work in OU, though he may not be everyone's first choice. Many UU pokes are like that.
I most certainly don't have everything, I may be off on a few things, and I am not the best battler, but correct me if I'm wrong, this is the best way to evaluate a mon. Saying (paraphrased) "it sucks because it's has a 4X weakness (since apparently many pokes don't), and there are pokes that can beat it every time (so it's not an uber, then).
If it were a physical wall weak to common physical attacks, then yeah (like a Fire/Flying wall). But saying that a physical tank is weak to a mainly special sweeper is...weird.
Sorry for the wall-o-text.
EDIT: Sorry, Nykheros, I misread your post, you weren't stating that Chesnaught is bad because it can't beat Greninja at all. Still, there were others making similar posts, so I guess the point stands with them instead.
To you guys saying the 4x flying weakness stops him for being OU, I must say you have built your Chesnaught wrong. Right now, my Lax CHesnaugt, with vull EV's in HP and Defense, can survive a 4x SE physical flying move. It brings him down to around 1/4th-1/3rd health. That turn he can use leech seed, and next turn Spiky Shield, to pretty much heal 1/3rd or more of what it took. After then I switch out to someone that can handle the flyer. Chesnaught is INCREDIBILITY beefy. But yes, one SE SpA and he is dead.
It doesn't
It doesn't
Gyarados is x4 electric weak ! He can't be OU for sure !
Volcarona is x4 Rock Weak ! It can't be OU as well !
Salamence is x4 Ice Weak ! Sure as hell out of OU !
On more serious note I don't think anyone serious says that if something is x4 weak to something, it means it's not viable (especially if it's the only x4 weakness). Grass/Fighting as a mentioned before (and not only by me) is great defensive typing, especially for physical walling, for which Chesnaught has stats to do. You can't ignore resists to -Rock, -Grass, -Water, -Dark, -Earth, etc. which are great in a metagame where Earthquakes, Stone Edges, Crunches, Waterfalls are flying technically everywhere. Your ability to counter/check Excadrill (huge), Landorus-T, Landorus (huge), Tyranitar (just watch out on Fire Blasts and Ice beams), Terrakion, Gliscor, Gengar (this ability :D), Keldeo (fun fact is that he can't 2HKO you by any move outside of Icy Wind and if you just run 252 HP/252 Def with Careful or other SpD boosting nature [You don't need ANY EVs in SpD, just nature boost] you avoid 2HKO from Specs Hydro Pump with SR up 100% of time and Sacred Sword hit you on your stronger defense), Tyrantrum, Hippowdon, Gyarados (even with Bounce, as you may just use Spiky Shield on a turn when Bounce ends charging up] and few other really strong OU Pokemon IMO give you 100% OU solid spot (even if it's just low OU). Look at those Pokemon he check/counter again - we talk about OU strongest behemots here. IMO don't underestimate this guy, especially in a metagame where stall/bulky offense/balanced teams are the most effective strategies to pull off. And he's not only limited to defensive sets - His base attack is good for example to use Choice Band. Or more offensive Bulk Up, so you may skyrocket your damage output. Or more defensive Bulk Up. Or even Swords Dance. He's much more versatile than you may expect and should find a solid spot on many teams, even those more offensive ones.
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I wasn't attacking you, but I saw other people attacking him
But yeah, you are exactly right. He walls so many pokemon and attack's it's not even funny. I love my in game Chesnaught, but I would change is nature and ability if I could, to make him even more of a tank.
And yes, he can attack as well. I myself kinda go for a out of the norm set for him.
@ Leftovers
Leech Seed
Spiky Sheild
Seed Bomb
Power up punch.
I myself really like this. Sure, it's a bit slower then swords dance, but you aren't locked out by taunt, and you can damage as you power up. After 2 punches he can star sweeping most of the time.
why would u leech seed then spike shield, unless u were both trying to psych each other out by a switch?
and it won't be extremely unlikely that a protean greninja physical set would come along, just for the surprise factor, even though it isn't the most effective, still be extremely useful (95stk stat) and always stab plus life orb.
as for chesnaught being 4x weak to flying, its just his drawback, so play around it, if say a greninja or talonflame comes along. same as how scizor is still great,even thou it is likely to end up crispy to any fires that hit it.
I leech seed since once I switch it will help my partner. Spike shield the next turn will be for them to take damage from my spike shield, heal a bit more, and also see if they were expecting a switch and see what move they did in response. That way I can see if they were expecting a switch, I can guess what move they may use once I do switch, or screw with them thinking I will just try to spike shield again, and then they use either a boost or something else as I switch in.
First post here... I know you're looking for a STAB, but maybe throwing in a earthquake might make him more versatile?
Chesnaught is actually a decent pokemon. I used one bulk up with max hp and max attack with an adamant nature against a mega gyarado and preceded to one shot it with seed bomb with no life orb or expert belt.
I just finished the game, and most of the battles I did were agains't my friends, with just a few online. I think Chesnaught is a very decent pokemon....I'm running this set:
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Leech Seed
Seed Bomb
Spiky Shield
Bulk Up
Until now it's very good. As long as I'm not facing a flying type move, I can do some damage.
Chesnaught @ Leftovers
Leech Seed
Seed Bomb
Spiky Shield
Bulk Up
Until now it's very good. As long as I'm not facing a flying type move, I can do some damage.
What nature and ev spread did you use? I have the same move set but impish and 252hp 252 atk.
also I gave it root temporarily because there is only 1 leftovers in the game and my tentacruel has it.
Pro tip. Give tentacruel black sludge.
Still wouldn't be able to hit flying types, and what would you remove? Power Up Punch gets him the strength to attack others, and seed bomb is for a powerful attack.
My in game guy is a Lax, but if I could I would have taken an Impish(this guy had good defense IV's though, at least I assume he doe, it is quite high) and I put 252 in HP and Defense for maximum Bulk, and 6 in attack. This whay he can tank the hardest, and get the most back from leftovers.
Also, like Mac said, give black sludge to Tentacruel, and chesnaught leftovers. Thats what I didn with my Dragalge.
So, yanno, it's got 70 Spd. That's a good Choice Scarf number.
Wood Hammer is a great Grass STAB. How about Fighting?
>Hammer Arm
Story of my goddamn life. That WOULD be your strongest Fighting STAB wouldn't it, Chesnaughtverygood? The one Fighting move that lowers Speed. So if you want a Fighting STAB with Choice Scarf your options are Power-Up Punch, Brick Break, and Low Sweep. Why don't you have Close Combat? WHY, man? Do you WANT to be fall out of OU because you have too many weaknesses? That's what I think is going to happen, and I'm the optimistic type. If you just had Close Combat you'd be fine. Aside from that your physical movepool is really good!
I got real excited, and you just let me down.
Wood Hammer is a great Grass STAB. How about Fighting?
>Hammer Arm
Story of my goddamn life. That WOULD be your strongest Fighting STAB wouldn't it, Chesnaughtverygood? The one Fighting move that lowers Speed. So if you want a Fighting STAB with Choice Scarf your options are Power-Up Punch, Brick Break, and Low Sweep. Why don't you have Close Combat? WHY, man? Do you WANT to be fall out of OU because you have too many weaknesses? That's what I think is going to happen, and I'm the optimistic type. If you just had Close Combat you'd be fine. Aside from that your physical movepool is really good!
I got real excited, and you just let me down.
Lol. You do realize that this thing is a defensive tank and not sweeper right?So, yanno, it's got 70 Spd. That's a good Choice Scarf number.
Wood Hammer is a great Grass STAB. How about Fighting?
>Hammer Arm
Story of my goddamn life. That WOULD be your strongest Fighting STAB wouldn't it, Chesnaughtverygood? The one Fighting move that lowers Speed. So if you want a Fighting STAB with Choice Scarf your options are Power-Up Punch, Brick Break, and Low Sweep. Why don't you have Close Combat? WHY, man? Do you WANT to be fall out of OU because you have too many weaknesses? That's what I think is going to happen, and I'm the optimistic type. If you just had Close Combat you'd be fine. Aside from that your physical movepool is really good!
I got real excited, and you just let me down.
Chesnaught is pretty cool, it's a solid pokemon that, courtesy of it's typin and good physical bulk, can cause trouble to quite a few prominent OU (at least prominent in Gen 5) pokes, like Physical Landorus, Tyranitar, generally stuff that go for EdgeQuake and so on. I think it's best set is the defensive one, as I don't see bulk up as a good idea, didn't found it too useful on Gen 5, at least. Physical wall feels the way to go.
Lol. You do realize that the point isn't to sweep right?
It isn't fast enough or powerful enough to be a revenge killer and close combat takes any usefulness out of a bulky set, so what would you do with it? Chesnaught is incredible with a bulky tank set. I didn't mean to insult you, just had a bad day, but I'm simply trying to follow your logic.
Am I missing something obvious here? What exactly can a Chesnaught do to Breloom besides take a bunch of hits? Start setting up bulk ups?
Bulk up, hammer arm, swords dance, aerial ace (lol). Who really cares. It beats Breloom 1v1 and if it's a bulk up set with synthesis, then it comes out unscathed. Breloom would have to run aerial ace or a hidden power to beat chesnaught.
LO Poison Jab from an Adamant Chesnaught OHKOs Breloom(or close to it).
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