Move Infestation (and trapping moves in general)

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Tentacruel @ Assault Vest
Nature: Timid
Ability: Liquid Ooze
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
- Infestation
- Acid Spray
- Hydro Pump / Scald
- Rapid Spin


Ok, so would this set be viable on Tentacruel?
The plan is simple with this. Come in on a special attacker, wearing the Assault Vest. Trap it with infestation and wear it down. With Assault Vest it can soak up a crapload of damage, and trapping the special attacker in, it can slowly kill it. Or is this too gimmicky?

Trying to think outside of the box here
 
Vyomesh said:
Come in on a special attacker, wearing the Assault Vest. Trap it with infestation and wear it down.
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This is never a plan (and why I dropped the idea of Toxistall Goodra). Nobody with half a brain is going to leave their Special attacker in with your gigantic Special wall so you can trap and kill it.
 
Tsplodey said:
This is never a plan (and why I dropped the idea of Toxistall Goodra). Nobody with half a brain is going to leave their Special attacker in with your gigantic Special wall so you can trap and kill it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply.
Dropping that idea then. Thought I finally found a Rapid Spinner for my team, oh well.
 
Reuniclus @ Leftovers
Nature: Bold
Ability: Magic Guard
252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Calm Mind
Infestation
Recover
Psychic/Psyshock

I can see this actually becoming a thing to be honest. You could swap the Leftovers for a Life Orb (yay no recoil), or keep them and swap Recover for Trick Room/Focus Blast. This thing can set up so well, but unfortunatly it would be so much better if not for the dreaded four moveslot curse. Infestation lets it set up Calm Mind for days on most offensive sets, with Magic Guard stopping Toxic and WoW from bringing you down.

It all depends if it can live long enough without Recover for Focus Blast so it can actually hit Darks.
 
Even though this isn't an earth-shattering move (just bug-type pseudo-trapping) it's interesting for the discussion it's sparked about this kind of move.
Infestation seems to work best in combination with a move that can disadvantage the kind of Pokemon that is likely to switch into the trapper.

eg.
Infestation + Sleep Powder
Pokemon with the combination:
~Vileplume
~Venomoth
~Butterfree
~Victreebel
~Exeggutor
~Tangrowth
~Bellossom
~Jumpluff
~Vivillon
Venomoth sems like the most interesting one with Quiver Dance + Baton Pass as well as Wonder Skin.
Probably it'll continue to prefer Bug Buzz though, to make use of its own boosts in a pinch.
 
IMO Pokemon with Quiver Dance can set up a tad easier with Infestation..

Say you used Infestation on a Pokemon that does neutral or ineffective damage then you're set to go as the move traps it for four-five thus it gives you the opportunity to abuse Quiver Dance.

I'm thinking this set for Masquerain might've work.

Masquerain @ Leftovers
* Intimidate
[Timid Nature]
~Infestation
~Quiver Dance
~Scald / Hydro Pump
~Ice Beam / Air Slash

I opt Bug Buzz in favor for Infestation when factoring the total base point of the latter it comes down to either 80 or 100 but ideally its the infestation's trapping effect we're after.

I preferred Scald over Hydro Pump because of the possibility of Burn status which means if the opponent is a Physical Attacker it halves all its attacking prowess. The additional HP decrease every end of each turn is forever welcome. Also the iffy accuracy of Hydro Pump isn't as reliable as Scald. The trade off power for the possibility of Burn and 100% accuracy is more appealing.

I've always like Ice Beam better than Air Slash as Masquerain can take down those pesky Fliers, dent them Dragon and Ground Pokemon. However Air Slash's possible flinch after effect and STAB makes it a very viable option too!

After 2 or 3 Quiver Dances Masquerain could potentially have the chance to wreck teams.
 
This set sounds so incredibly evil D=
No escape + sleep + drain/heal moves + regenerator
Tangrowth @ Binding Band/Leftovers
Trait: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SAtk
Bold Nature (+Def, -Atk)
- Infestation
- Sleep Powder
- Synthesis / Earthquake
- Giga Drain
 
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When making trap move sets though, you have to consider that you're going to be trapping a potential counter, since smart opponents will always switch into your pokemon. With that in mind, I think Pokemon with sleep or disabling moves can make the most out of it. You need to count on being able to take that one (probably) super effective hit before putting the opponent to sleep. That's why Swalot does it so well.
 
Infestation is fun and all for trapping, but I think its best usage is as a pivot move, like a better-distributed unTauntable Mean Look/Block/Spider Web.

For instance, look at Tangrowth and Heatran as a core. Heatran loves switching in on Grass, Ice, Bug, Poison, Flying, and especially Fire moves. Tangrowth lures swaths of these Pokemon (being weak to five of them and tempting Grass-types to switch in on Sleep Powder or Leech Seed), and, by Infesting on the switch, allows Heatran to switch in and set up a free sub. Moreover, Heatran hates Ground, Fighting and Water; Tangrowth resists two of these, and as a physical wall, Ground and Fighting attackers are especially unlikely to switch in. Add in Regenerator for multiple switches and Sleep Powder for putting down Scizor and other U-turners (which avoid trapping moves and hit Tangrowth hard) and suddenly Tangrowth is an excellent pivot. Plus, you can always use Leech Seed for when the opponent switches into something you've trapped that you don't need to pivot from!

Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Regen, EV/Nature vary, but I'd go with solid 252/252/4 Def
-Infestation
-Sleep Powder
-Giga Drain/Substitute
-Leech Seed/Toxic

Finally, if you're really into trapping, Heatran still has Magma Storm with its now-boosted trapdamage, and can funnily enough benefit Tangrowth just as Tangrowth helps Heatran (although its immense power comes at the price of accuracy and having certain Flash Fire pokemon immune). Regardless, you get the picture: Infestation can be used as a deadly variation of U-turn, with the bonus of damage-per-turn.
 
Tried Swalot using infestation and yawn and it had a really hard time straight up surviving whatever it trapped. I feel that recovery moves are absolutely essential. +
hippowdon@lefties with sand tomb / slack off / yawn / protect however, was really effective. It can recover via slack off when neccessary, and sand stream lets it deal some additional passive damage.
 
Since there's a lot of discussion of other trapping moves in here, I just went ahead and changed the title to reflect this.

Swalot never seemed very good to me, TBH. His stats are just too weak in general, but I see what Fundance is saying.
Sand Tomb Hippowdon sounds pretty cool too, although I'm generally just not a fan of that low accuracy on all the other trapping moves. Magma Storm sounds about like the only one that might be worth it, given how damn powerful it is, but I definitely believe that Hippo's natural bulk could pull it off.

The one issue with that, of course, is the matter of potentially trapping (and thus being stuck with) a counter. But, assuming you have a counter to that counter, I guess this could still be used as a useful tactic to maintain a bit of momentum while slowing the opponent's.
 
Fundance said:
When making trap move sets though, you have to consider that you're going to be trapping a potential counter, since smart opponents will always switch into your pokemon. With that in mind, I think Pokemon with sleep or disabling moves can make the most out of it. You need to count on being able to take that one (probably) super effective hit before putting the opponent to sleep. That's why Swalot does it so well.
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Well, the problem is that there aren't really many pokemon who can take a hit from their counters. Swalot actually even struggles to wall the stuff it's supposed to(at least in higher tiers).
I'd rather use a pokemon that's fast(or paralyze/sticky web support) & has at least one strong attack (or will-o-wisp etc., just something to actually force switches against a decent portion of the metagame), and then you alternate between protect & sub. Good defensive stats aren't necessary, it only needs to survive the switch-in, so 4x resists and/or immunities are enough.
Gengar or Mega-Banette look interesting for that, for example. Scolipede could be considered, too, though I'm not sure it's able to force that many switches. Especially in the case of Gengar, you can totally troll Sucker Punch + Pursuit users.

Or you use toxic spikes support and a dedicated special/physical wall, infest on the switch, use protect once and then switch out. That's already at least 50% damage, and you have a secured favorable match-up.
 
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one extra note is that the duration now extends to 4-5, from ridiculous 2-5

Btw, I hate how Heatran is still unreleased so that I have to stick with the 2 turn trapping.
 
Swalot can use Dream eater as a sort of pseudo-recovery, and Gastrodon also does a similar set with infestation only using Recover instead of Protect. I'd also believe that Vaporeon and Swampert could make use of Whirlpool, as could other bulky water types.

Trapyawn seems to be a thing that quite a lot of Pokemon are capable of.
 
Couldn't you work protect on one of these sets? Since the trap move will be used on a counter, using protect and some form of recovery could work as pure stall.

I forget, does the move continue to trap and damage if the user faints? I assume not, otherwise you could trap and then set up with something else.
 
Dusclops/Dusknoir learns Infestation, and absolutely has the bulk to to abuse it, perhaps on a set like this:

Dusknoir Leftovers
Careful | 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
- Infestation
- Night Shade/Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Force a switch, trap them, then spread status while healing up damage with Rest/Lefties. Infestation allows you free momentum, as you can switch into a counter and get at least 1 free turn on your enemy. If you're ok with the matchup, you can infest/burn/night shade/toxic them to death. Thoughts?
 
The_Grey_King said:
Dusclops/Dusknoir learns Infestation, and absolutely has the bulk to to abuse it, perhaps on a set like this:

Dusknoir Leftovers
Careful | 252 HP / 252 SpDef / 4 Def
- Infestation
- Night Shade/Will-O-Wisp/Toxic
- Rest
- Sleep Talk

Force a switch, trap them, then spread status while healing up damage with Rest/Lefties. Infestation allows you free momentum, as you can switch into a counter and get at least 1 free turn on your enemy. If you're ok with the matchup, you can infest/burn/night shade/toxic them to death. Thoughts?
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The problem is that Ghosts are common switch-ins to the Dusks because Dusks have basically no offensive presence and they're hit super effectively by other Ghosts.

And Ghosts aren't trapped by Infestation.
 
JayHankEdLyon said:
The problem is that Ghosts are common switch-ins to the Dusks because Dusks have basically no offensive presence and they're hit super effectively by other Ghosts.

And Ghosts aren't trapped by Infestation.
Click to expand...

Many ghosts can switch into the above set, that's true, but 2 important ones CAN'T.

Mega Gengar 2hkos this Dusk, leaving you in the ballpark of 40-50% after 1 Shadow Ball. If you replace Nightshade/Will-O-Wisp with Shadow Sneak, even uninvested you 2hko the average Gengar, factoring in Infestation damage.

Aegislash doesn't typically want to get burned, is 2hko'd by Shadow Sneak in sword form...lots of problems going against this set.

I would think that the much more common switch in OU would be to a Wallbreaker/Special Attacker of of some sort who doesn't mind getting burned, and most of these are just flat out walled by Dusky - Hydreigon being the most threatening with Stab Dark Pulse. The point is, though, that Dusknoir wouldn't even BE THERE against Hydrogon, having switched out to something that could take the hit.
 
Posted this in the Dragonite thread.

Dragonite @ Soft Sand (I had no lefties)
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature (+SpD / -SpA)

Wrap
Toxic
Roost
Earthquake

It's so good it's almost unbelievable. It's won me three games all by itself, tanking Moonblasts from Florges. It's so much fun to use!
 
In a 'duh' moment I just noticed that Infestation's residual damage is better than the other pseudo-trapping moves.
Or have they all been boosted but the sites haven't updated? I'm reading 1/8 for it and 1/16 for everything else.
Anyway, I was doing a thought experiment: combining pseudo-trapping with Super Fang to see how long it would take to finish something off.

Super Fang always halves the current HP while the trap-damage does a fraction (1/8?) of max HP.
So let's assume a Pokemon at full health without Leftovers switches into Infestation and takes a Super Fang every turn after that.
Ignoring the initial damage from Infestation, HP reduces like this (hopefully no arithmetic errors):
7/8 (87.5%) -> 5/16 (31.25%) - > 1/32 (3.125%) -> Faints this turn after trap-damage

So if the user of the pseudo-trapping move can avoid being 2HKOd it'll be able to finish off its victim.
That's pretty efficient and could be helped Toxic Spikes, Life Orb or damaging weather.
The Life Orb case is interesting since so many offensive Pokemon carry it:
7/8 (87.5%) -> 21/80 (26.25%) - > Faints this turn after LO Recoil + Super Fang + trap damage

However, the staller has to attack which means it has to be bulky and have at least residual recovery.
Given how hard things hit in OU, I doubt it would be practical to use Super Fang every turn against an strong attacker.
I think the best way to use them would be as threats to trap and kill walls as well as bulky pivots.

Pokemon that could try the combination:

~Mew
Probably the most promising due to its bulk, ability to easily outpace walls, access to instant recovery, and its unpredictability.
Since it has recovery, it could reasonably experiment with Grip Claw/Binding Band.
Infestation | Super Fang* | Roost | Taunt (*BW2 tutor)

~Walrein
Its popular Stallrein set has been severely impacted by the end of perma-hail but it still has that 110/80/90 bulk.
Maybe it can make a new living threatening sleep, stripping chunks of HP, and trying to trap compatible victims.
Protect has nice synergy with Yawn and could also be used for stalling a turn if residual damage is about to kill.
However, Hail both triggers Ice Body and adds residual damage to the opponent regardless of Snow Warning.
Whirlpool+ | Super Fang* | Yawn | Protect/Hail (+HGSS HM)

Ah well, just some crazy brainstorming.
I'm feeling pretty good about the Mew.
Not so sure about Walrein.
 
deluge said:
In a 'duh' moment I just noticed that Infestation's residual damage is better than the other pseudo-trapping moves.
Or have they all been boosted but the sites haven't updated? I'm reading 1/8 for it and 1/16 for everything else.
Anyway, I was doing a thought experiment: combining pseudo-trapping with Super Fang to see how long it would take to finish something off.

Super Fang always halves the current HP while the trap-damage does a fraction (1/8?) of max HP.
So let's assume a Pokemon at full health without Leftovers switches into Infestation and takes a Super Fang every turn after that.
Ignoring the initial damage from Infestation, HP reduces like this (hopefully no arithmetic errors):
7/8 (87.5%) -> 5/16 (31.25%) - > 1/32 (3.125%) -> Faints this turn after trap-damage

So if the user of the pseudo-trapping move can avoid being 2HKOd it'll be able to finish off its victim.
That's pretty efficient and could be helped Toxic Spikes, Life Orb or damaging weather.
The Life Orb case is interesting since so many offensive Pokemon carry it:
7/8 (87.5%) -> 21/80 (26.25%) - > Faints this turn after LO Recoil + Super Fang + trap damage

However, the staller has to attack which means it has to be bulky and have at least residual recovery.
Given how hard things hit in OU, I doubt it would be practical to use Super Fang every turn against an strong attacker.
I think the best way to use them would be as threats to trap and kill walls as well as bulky pivots.

Pokemon that could try the combination:

~Mew
Probably the most promising due to its bulk, ability to easily outpace walls, access to instant recovery, and its unpredictability.
Since it has recovery, it could reasonably experiment with Grip Claw/Binding Band.
Infestation | Super Fang* | Roost | Taunt (*BW2 tutor)

~Walrein
Its popular Stallrein set has been severely impacted by the end of perma-hail but it still has that 110/80/90 bulk.
Maybe it can make a new living threatening sleep, stripping chunks of HP, and trying to trap compatible victims.
Protect has nice synergy with Yawn and could also be used for stalling a turn if residual damage is about to kill.
However, Hail both triggers Ice Body and adds residual damage to the opponent regardless of Snow Warning.
Whirlpool+ | Super Fang* | Yawn | Protect/Hail (+HGSS HM)

Ah well, just some crazy brainstorming.
I'm feeling pretty good about the Mew.
Not so sure about Walrein.
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Yeah All trapping moves got buffed to 1/8 now. And while super fang seems like a good idea. its only going to work on super bulky pokemon. the better rout is probably Infesation/Trapping move + Yawn/sleep powder/spore + Recover/milk Drink/Morning sun/any recovery move + Toxic. As a Toxic/Infestation will kill them before the trap ends, and then obvious sleep + Recovery is just to stay alive as long as they done 2HKO the user
 
Just tried out Wrap Dragonite online. VERY good at killing fairies. Gimicky yet effective, though you have to worry about them hitting you from the physical side.
 
Would it not be viable to run a trapping move with Substitute on a faster Pokemon? Most of the time your opponent will switch in a check or counter to deal with the Pokemon you just sent out. This would make trapping more difficult since you would now be trapping a Pokemon who could likely do severe damage to or KO yours, forcing you to switch out or get knocked out. Either way, the trapping damage would not have much time to rack up. However, if you use Substitute on the turn your opponent switches out to set up a 1 turn buffer and then use a trapping move while the opponent breaks your sub, you could continue to sub down each turn before they can damage you while the trapping damage racks up on the opponent. I realize Substitute isn't a guarantee of safety this generation, but not every Pokemon carries sound moves or uses Infiltrator.

Leftovers is a must for any set attempting this as otherwise the amount of subs you can set up is very limited. A reliable recovery move is also nice to have as subs take a significant portion more of your health than Leftovers restore. The last move slot can go to Toxic if you want more residual damage with or without trapping, or it can go to U-Turn for momentum or any coverage move you might need in a pinch.

The reason you would seemingly throw away a potential sweeper on a set like this is to eliminate a check or counter to another offensive Pokemon on your team. You would need to run 2 Pokemon with very similar checks and counters and use the first as a lure to trap and cripple or remove the opponent's best answer to your main sweeper.

Possible candidates for such a set include Floatzel, Infernape and Mew. I agree with deluge that Mew has potential for a partial trapping set. It has solid all around bulk without losing much speed. Mew can also run any move it needs for coverage or recovery.

Floatzel Leftovers
252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 Speed
Jolly
Whirlpool
Substitute
Toxic/Protect/Ice Punch
Waterfall/Ice Punch

Infernape Leftovers
252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 Speed
Jollly
Fire Spin
Substitute
Toxic/Will-o-wisp/Protect
U-Turn/Mach Punch/Fire Punch

Mew Leftovers
252 HP, 4 Attack, 252 Speed
Infestation
Substitute
Toxic/Will-o-wisp/Protect
U-Turn/Psyshock/Super Fang
 
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