This is true, but with Team Preview, that just means if you see a Shedinja, you don't Belly Drum until it's dead.
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Pokémon Azumarill
- Thread starter Don Honchkrorleone
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Okay. I'm sorry.
Quite frankly, I think you clearly have no idea what you're talking about, since no good player is letting their Azumarill set up on strong super effective moves that take it out of Belly Drum range. If you attempt to set up on a Goodra or a Jolteon using Thunderbolt, then gee, you do deserve to lose. Nobody smart is doing that. Additionally, Azumarill focuses mainly on bulk due to its slow speed, and the increased bulk also giving it many setup opportunities; so outrunning your grandad or whatever isn't exactly a problem, especially considering it has Aqua Jet to make up for its Speed problems.
So yeah, please come back when you know what you're actually saying, seeing as you haven't any effective experience with or against it judging from your mistake involving Noivern + Thunder (by the way, Hurricane is stronger than HP Electric on Azumarill, and I have no freaking clue why you'd want to use it otherwise) and Mega Heracross (Azumarill OHKOes with +6 Aqua Jet, so there's no way your Heracross can "deal with them.").
I'd also advise stop making pretentious posts like "why aren't you the best yet" or "if he's soooooo strong." Things like Dragonite and Talonflame are strong too, but obviously no one's "the best yet," so I don't see the need to taunt anybody over this. Seriously.
So i have been running this set for azumirall and i find that when facing other sweeper type mons i usually go 2nd in terms of moves, so i often find my self going belly drum into jet or i simply just use azumirall to kill a dragon.
128 HP / 252 ATK / 128 SPD
Belly Drum
Water Jet
Superpower
Play Rough
So i am now looking to run a steaky web setter but wondering if other people are and if so which one? Atm i am looking to run galvanuta or smeargle?
128 HP / 252 ATK / 128 SPD
Belly Drum
Water Jet
Superpower
Play Rough
So i am now looking to run a steaky web setter but wondering if other people are and if so which one? Atm i am looking to run galvanuta or smeargle?
Azumarill I find doesn't need much support from a Sticky Web setter at all: without any Speed EVs, Azumarill can only outrun uninvested base 76 Pokemon with the -1 drop, so the majority of the time you'll be Aqua Jetting opponents anyway. Some notable opponents do lie within that speed range, such as Jellicent, Aegislash, and Scizor, but it doesn't take Azumarill too much Speed EVs to outrun them naturally. There is little need to dedicate a whole teamslot to fix Azumarill's speed issues.
If you're just looking for a Sticky Web user in general, I suggest you go to the appropriate thread.
With this new typing and Play Rough, not even Jellicent, the previous surefire counter to Azumarill, is sure!!!
We only need a counter to Unaware Physically Defensive Quagsire and Physically Defensive Intimidate Qwilfish... and I'm sure that will be easy to find.
We only need a counter to Unaware Physically Defensive Quagsire and Physically Defensive Intimidate Qwilfish... and I'm sure that will be easy to find.
Quagsire will just require any really tough special attacker, and Qwilfish can really only do something on the revenge or if it switches in on Belly Drum. Switching in on Play Rough or Waterfall will result in a follow-up KO with Aqua Jet, even at +5. Some talk of Bulldoze has been floating around and that also KOs (minimum of 150%) after an Intimidate drop.
I'm using this set right now at Showdown:
Belly Drum Azumarill:
Sitrus Berry
Belly Drum
Waterfall
Aqua Jet
Play Rough
I'm having great success, but sometimes I think Superpower would be a much better move to use. Which STAB would be the best to drop?
It's just a matter of prediction. Azumarill can Belly Drum on the face of normal Blaziken, most Kingdra and Gliscor variants and Aegislash without Will O wisp.
Belly Drum Azumarill:
Sitrus Berry
Belly Drum
Waterfall
Aqua Jet
Play Rough
I'm having great success, but sometimes I think Superpower would be a much better move to use. Which STAB would be the best to drop?
It's just a matter of prediction. Azumarill can Belly Drum on the face of normal Blaziken, most Kingdra and Gliscor variants and Aegislash without Will O wisp.
With Belly Drum, Superpower is not a good choice. It only gives you OHKOes on pokémon that cannot even 2HKO you back first (eg. Ferrothorn). Plus it lowers Attack and Defense, which is not desirable in such a set
Can someone do calcs for a 252 Def/252 HP Ferrothorn with the defense boosting berry when hit by a physical move? I can't see something like +6 Aqua Jet just mauling everyone with no way to stop it. I don't know if this thing will get used in Doubles/VGC but if its as good as people are calcing this guy, I need to either find a solid check to him or run him myself.
The Defense-boosting berry seems like a rather desperate solution. Really, the best way to stop Bellyzurril is by not letting it start attacking in the first place (i.e. Switching a faster, non-Water weak attacker that can 2HKO Azumarill into Belly Drum. And there are many that can do so). Getting those free turns is not easy. Still...
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. +1 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 141-167 (40.05 - 47.44%) -- 54.69% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and one layer of Spikes
Even if the berry were eaten right before taking the attack, Ferrothorn needs to be mostly healthy to take two Play Rough in a row
The Defense-boosting berry is only helpful if Ferrothorn has never taken a physical hit on any previous switch-ins, and it'll essentially be item-less for the rest of the game. Something so temporary, and particularly something so easily triggered in the wrong situation, just isn't worthwhile for a defensive Pokemon.
Did everyone forget that Salac Berry is a thing? Azumarill is so horribly slow, and water/fairy coverage decent enough, that it seems the way to go for a gimmick like Belly Drum.
Azumarill @Salac Berry
Jolly, 252 attack, 252 speed
Substitute
Belly Drum
Aqua Jet
Play Rough
In all honesty, the jolly nature may be overkill -- I'm not sure what you need to outspeed with fairy that 327 speed will do (or its level 50 equivalent). You won't beat a 100-speed with a speed-boosting nature, because of course they hit 328.
Actually, after writing this post, I'm even more convinced that Belly Drum Azumarill is totally worthless in OU. You'll fail to outspeed Salamence even after the Salac Berry boost, and he'll block your Aqua Jet (58-63% damage). Basically, you're screwed by anyone with a base 100 speed that resists water.
Azumarill @Salac Berry
Jolly, 252 attack, 252 speed
Substitute
Belly Drum
Aqua Jet
Play Rough
In all honesty, the jolly nature may be overkill -- I'm not sure what you need to outspeed with fairy that 327 speed will do (or its level 50 equivalent). You won't beat a 100-speed with a speed-boosting nature, because of course they hit 328.
Actually, after writing this post, I'm even more convinced that Belly Drum Azumarill is totally worthless in OU. You'll fail to outspeed Salamence even after the Salac Berry boost, and he'll block your Aqua Jet (58-63% damage). Basically, you're screwed by anyone with a base 100 speed that resists water.
This is why I'm starting to like Bulldoze. Unlike SuperPower, which is stronger, Bulldoze will 2HKO, but will also avoid contact, which to me is the big thing. Iron Barbs is a big deal when you've cut your health in half. It also covers the other Fairy/Water resistors.
Unless Play Rough doesn't make contact either...
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Azumarill has no surefire counters other than Unaware Quagsire, Intimidate Qwilfish and the OU grass types, but it has a lot of checks. The point of your teammates is to kill these faster threats and setup Sticky Web/Stealth Rock/Spikes to help Azumarill sweep. I'm using it to great success, taking into account that it can setup on the face of Blaziken, Tentacruel without Poison Sludge, Heatran and Gliscor. Mega Absol as a teammate is doing wonders at that.
Azumarill needs to hit as hard as possible with Aqua Jet, and a Choice Band lets him nab certain revenge kills, which are easier for him now due to his new typing. Even with an Assault Vest, it is 2HKOed by 252 Timid Scarf Rotom-W's Thunderbolt, Life Orb Thundurus-T OHKOes after SR, Modest 252 Scarf Chandelure 2HKOes with Energy Ball after SR, Nidoking 2HKOes with Thunderbolt and has a good chance to OHKO after SR with Sludge Wave, and it dies to a good amount of physical attacks still. Without a Choice Band, Azumarill cannot adequately beat any of these Pokemon, as Aqua Jet will fail to OHKO Chandelure (and can fail the OHKO after SR too), fail to OHKO Nidoking even after SR and 1 layer of Spikes, and fail to do any relevant damage to Thundurus-T (36-43%, compared to BRELOOM's Mach Punch at 31-37%). With Band, Azumarill does at least 100% to Chandelure, at least 98% to Nidoking, at least 53% to Thundurus-T, and OHKOes no defense Rotom-W with Play Rough while surviving Scarf Thunderbolt assuming no SR.
168 HP | 252 Atk | 4 Sp.Def | 84 Spe Is this good? It was the 1st post on this thread, apparently enough to outspeed a Jellicent or something. I changed Def to Sp.Def because Poison, Electric and Grass are often Special moves. I prefer to have versitality on Azumarril, so I'd prefer not to use a Choice item. Are Life Orb, Leftovers or Splash Plate/Mystic Water options? Maybe even a Water Gem? Superpower instead of Bulldoze is fine by me.
Azumarill is good, but yeah the choice is Belly Drum or Choice Band; anything else doesn't make much sense in OU. There are better bulky Waters; Azumarill's strength is a super-powerful Aqua Jet.
I'd think splash/Mystic water would be best if you prefer not to use choice band as Life orb damages you each turn and Water Gem is consumable
The more I think of it, the more I think Sitrus Berry is perhaps the best item Bellyzurril can use:
- It hits SO hard at +6 that a boosting item does not give any notable advantages that just Stealth Rock doesn't
- Water/Fairy resists most of the high Base Power moves that are commonly seen in OU (Outrage, Draco Meteor, Overheat, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Close Combat, Focus Blast... Megahorn?) and Azumarill has 100/80/80 defenses, so only a few pokémon can take the obvious Aqua Jet AND deal over 75% damage to Azumarill in a single move, which would KO it through Sitrus Berry. Kyurem-B is the first one that comes to my mind as Aqua Jet cannot even deal over 50% with uninvested defenses. Celebi is a similar case
- It hits SO hard at +6 that a boosting item does not give any notable advantages that just Stealth Rock doesn't
- Water/Fairy resists most of the high Base Power moves that are commonly seen in OU (Outrage, Draco Meteor, Overheat, Fire Blast, Hydro Pump, Close Combat, Focus Blast... Megahorn?) and Azumarill has 100/80/80 defenses, so only a few pokémon can take the obvious Aqua Jet AND deal over 75% damage to Azumarill in a single move, which would KO it through Sitrus Berry. Kyurem-B is the first one that comes to my mind as Aqua Jet cannot even deal over 50% with uninvested defenses. Celebi is a similar case
In fact, most if not all the grass types available in OU are more than capable of taking a +6 Aqua Jet and knocking back with any Grass Stab they have. That's the reason you need special sweepers on your team, to kill these menaces before you attempt to sweep with Azumarill. Or you could attempt to Baton Pass Speed Boosts from Scolipede to Azumarill in order to kill all these grass types with Play Rough.
This is great and all, but you can say the same thing about pretty much any pokemon in the game that learns a set-up move. "With stealth rock, sticky web, spikes, etc., etc., this mon is totally a viable sweeper!" Or, instead of that, you can use a pokemon that has use outside of a pocket sweeper that requires ungodly amounts of support to work and has actual use as a pivot or at least something you're required to hold in reserve until the absolute last possible moment (which is another issue subsalac and belly drum as a whole have always have). I don't recall suddenly seeing Gorebyss become OU for exactly this reason.
Predicting Azumarill for UU at most right here and now. He's cute and all but doesn't have nearly enough going for him; whatever he's being used for, someone else is better at the job in OU. This mon is way overhyped for no reason whatsoever, it's like everybody suddenly forgot about his horrible speed.
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But to difference from normal sweepers, a +6 Azumarill is incredibly useful. His Waterfall OHKOes Skarmory, his Play Rough kills any Conkeldurr variants and outside of running Thunder Punch, Dragonite can't check it. Talonflame dies to +6 Aquajet while it fails to do more than 40% with Brave Bird, and even if it carries Will O Wisp, Aegislash cannot do other thing than die to Waterfall. Normal variants of Blaziken are nothing more than setup for Azumarill, and the same can be said about Garchomp. This is a pokemon that can easily destroy your opponent team with little support.
Garchomp has base 102 speed. Blaziken has speed boost. An Azumarill that attempts to "set up" on these pokemon will simply die.
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