I'm just going to stick with my guts @ flame orb set, worked surprisingly well last gen, don't see anything that might change that.
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Pokémon Heracross
- Thread starter PK Gaming
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Forgive me if any of my previous posts seemed snarky accidentally. I'm honestly just seeking clarification.
Also, I pretty much solely played bulky offense last gen. i think we must differ on how exactly a tank performs. Yes, a tank is supposed to take a beating while it attacks, but it's not really supposed to take an attack for free. Conkeldurr was one of the absolute best tanks last gen, but it wasn't because it was a good switch in to strong moves. It was because it could heal as it attacked to mitigate good physical bulk and poor special bulk. Being a pure Fighting type he doesn't have many resistances or moves he really wants to switch into outside of predicted status moves for Guts. He's supposed to get in relatively unscathed so he can set up a Bulk Up, or revenge a weakened threat with Mach Punch.
Similarly Reuniclus was a great tank because of CM and Magic Guard. It got switch ins on certain status moves and set up mon but there are few strong attacks right off the bat you want to switch him into. Tanks have the resilience to set up and attack and heal without being forced out too often, not soak up the brunt of a brutal offense like a Draco Meteor, that's a wall or sponge's job.
Sure, certain Tanks have features or typing that make them a safe switch into certain moves but its not a defining feature of Tanks in general I don't think. Do you agree or disagree with my philosophy?
Mega Heracross seems to have such a role. I don't think you'll get the best utility from him switching constantly into strong attacks when he lacks recovery and has no immunity, you should have a wall for that instead. With the right EV spread and a Bulk Up at the right time he will then have the durability and power to perform as a proper tank, I think. I think you'll get the best mileage from him in this regard. Stealth Rock will help him immensely fending off those threatening Fire and Flying types and Sticky Web will give you the speed advantage over most grounded otherwise beefy threats. This is how I think he should be played if you're going to use him.
Based on your own criteria Hera seems like a good switch in for Aegislash at least. And like you said I wouldn't try to switch Hera into those moves, I'm trying to bait their Sucker Punch. Switch to a Ghost for the Return, then to Hera for the Sucker Punch.
Also, I pretty much solely played bulky offense last gen. i think we must differ on how exactly a tank performs. Yes, a tank is supposed to take a beating while it attacks, but it's not really supposed to take an attack for free. Conkeldurr was one of the absolute best tanks last gen, but it wasn't because it was a good switch in to strong moves. It was because it could heal as it attacked to mitigate good physical bulk and poor special bulk. Being a pure Fighting type he doesn't have many resistances or moves he really wants to switch into outside of predicted status moves for Guts. He's supposed to get in relatively unscathed so he can set up a Bulk Up, or revenge a weakened threat with Mach Punch.
Similarly Reuniclus was a great tank because of CM and Magic Guard. It got switch ins on certain status moves and set up mon but there are few strong attacks right off the bat you want to switch him into. Tanks have the resilience to set up and attack and heal without being forced out too often, not soak up the brunt of a brutal offense like a Draco Meteor, that's a wall or sponge's job.
Sure, certain Tanks have features or typing that make them a safe switch into certain moves but its not a defining feature of Tanks in general I don't think. Do you agree or disagree with my philosophy?
Mega Heracross seems to have such a role. I don't think you'll get the best utility from him switching constantly into strong attacks when he lacks recovery and has no immunity, you should have a wall for that instead. With the right EV spread and a Bulk Up at the right time he will then have the durability and power to perform as a proper tank, I think. I think you'll get the best mileage from him in this regard. Stealth Rock will help him immensely fending off those threatening Fire and Flying types and Sticky Web will give you the speed advantage over most grounded otherwise beefy threats. This is how I think he should be played if you're going to use him.
You think this is fearsome, imagine scarf Ditto switching in on this monster.. scary
Something I have been running to decent success is an offensive core of baton bass blaziken, 4 attacks mega hera, and tyranitar (anything that can handle talonflame, really). Sash blaziken passes an almost guarenteed +2 attack and speed with swords dance and protect. Depending on the opponents team, as well as what poke is currently in play against blaziken, i either pass to mega hera or ttar, both of which have good type synergy with each other as well as having decent bulk to tank the incoming hit on the turn of baton pass. I also run guts on heracross in case of a status move on the switch. Both of these pokes really apprectiate the speed boost, and of course the attack boost too. After the bpass not much is stopping a sweep, and it is not too hard to pull off with smart playing. Priority can be an issue from the likes of scizor and azu, but with smart teambuilding (I run defensive rotom), this shouldnt be too much of an issue. Anyways, if anyone is interested, here are the sets I have been running:
Blaziken@focus sash
Jolly nature
252 Spe/252 Atk/ 4 HP (sash for a reason)
Swords dance
Protect
Baton Pass
Sky Uppercut/Decent powered STAB of choice
Heracross@Heracrosite
Adamant Nature
96 HP/252 Atk/160 Spe (iirc, will check later)
Rock Blast
Pin Missle/Earthquake
Close Combat/Arm Thrust
Bullet Seed
The speed evs allow this set to outspeed scarf 100s at +2, and with all the scarf genesects running around in OU i thought it was pretty important. I think i got the evs right, but I did the speed calcs a while ago, so sorry if they are wrong. Mega Heracross is viable here, and chosen over other megas, because of its base 185 Atk, its ability, its coverage, its bulk, and the fact that it is very hard to stop at +2 Atk and Spe, as with most megas.
Old Times (Tyranitar) @Babiri Berry (Scizor is common enought to justify imo)/Lum Berry
Jolly Nature
252 Spe/252 Atk/ 4 HP
Earthquake
Crunch
Fire Punch
Stone edge
Since Im mainly trying to justify the use of a mega hera, i wont say much about ttar except the obvious in that he handles what heracross cannot (namely talonflame), and is also very threatening at +2 Atk and Spe.
If anyone still pays attention to this thread, maybe let me know what you think. Imo, these pokes form a good offensive core, and i have swept quite a few teams with mega hera with this set up, though i am not that high on the ladder so thats not much of an accomplisment i guess.
Blaziken@focus sash
Jolly nature
252 Spe/252 Atk/ 4 HP (sash for a reason)
Swords dance
Protect
Baton Pass
Sky Uppercut/Decent powered STAB of choice
Heracross@Heracrosite
Adamant Nature
96 HP/252 Atk/160 Spe (iirc, will check later)
Rock Blast
Pin Missle/Earthquake
Close Combat/Arm Thrust
Bullet Seed
The speed evs allow this set to outspeed scarf 100s at +2, and with all the scarf genesects running around in OU i thought it was pretty important. I think i got the evs right, but I did the speed calcs a while ago, so sorry if they are wrong. Mega Heracross is viable here, and chosen over other megas, because of its base 185 Atk, its ability, its coverage, its bulk, and the fact that it is very hard to stop at +2 Atk and Spe, as with most megas.
Old Times (Tyranitar) @Babiri Berry (Scizor is common enought to justify imo)/Lum Berry
Jolly Nature
252 Spe/252 Atk/ 4 HP
Earthquake
Crunch
Fire Punch
Stone edge
Since Im mainly trying to justify the use of a mega hera, i wont say much about ttar except the obvious in that he handles what heracross cannot (namely talonflame), and is also very threatening at +2 Atk and Spe.
If anyone still pays attention to this thread, maybe let me know what you think. Imo, these pokes form a good offensive core, and i have swept quite a few teams with mega hera with this set up, though i am not that high on the ladder so thats not much of an accomplisment i guess.
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Baton Pass Blaziken can turn any physical attacker into a monster. My question is, how does Heracross earn its spot when things go wrong? Say Ttar's KO'd by a lucky critical hit, you couldn't keep sneaky pebbles off the field, and out of no where, you find yourself with just 2 pokemon left, Blaziken and Heracross. Blaziken comes and takes 25% damage from SR, and finds itself getting hammered by aqua jets from Azumarill. How do you salvage this situation? Some megas can single handedly change the course of a battle, I want to know how Heracross earns its spot among them.
Admittedly, this is not a completely fair test, but things like this happen more than we like to admit. Its in these situations that pokemon become more than just chess pieces to be maneuvered in a video game and become the things we believed them to be when we were children.
You bring up a good point, other megas could definitley be viable in heras spot. Heck, probably any bulky physical attacking mega could be on the receiving end of blazikens boosts and proceed to sweep. I guess i chose hera because of its great attack, decent bulk, and the fact that its number 1 counter, talonflame, is very easy to prepare for, though its probably up to the teambuilder, as well as the last three pokes on the team.
I'll take that answer, especially since it shows people are realizing how overrated Talonflame is. But I'm kinda disappointed that my little tirade at the end hasn't gotten flocks of people discussing whether I've taken pokemon too far or I have achieved a higher form of enlightenment.
For every example you could show where having Heracross gets you screwed you can think of one where he is your saving grace. Random scenarios like that aren't indicative of a mon's true potential and honestly sometimes it won't matter because you simply got played by a better opponent. You can however statistically measure the amount of likely scenarios you'll encounter, based on usage rates and common sets. It is impossible to build a successful team for any tier unless you know what the opposition is. That is when you're able to better decide what pokemon benefit your idea better based on type, stats, ability and moves.
That being said Mega Heracross has a niche in it's unique typing, bulk, and outrageous on-hand Atk. These days people seem to be building team's around their mega, which makes sense because you only get to choose one. People that want to use Heracross know that there are certain things the team would need to make him as successful as possible. That would be making sure his weaknesses are covered, a means of raising his speed or bulk, a means of slowing the enemy, and keeping him safe from status effects. That's why Sticky Web, paralysis support of Baton Passing speed to him are such good ideas. Likewise there's the option of increasing his defenses to make him as bulky as possible not caring about speed as much, which would mean you'd need something that can pass Bulk Up/Amnesia/Iron Defense to him as well as take out most of the special attackers on the enemy's team first. Stealth Rock support is a must to deter his two biggest type threats, Fire and Flying types. A Gliscor theoretically can set up Stealth Rock, Baton Pass Agility, Swords Dance or Substitute, and absorb status effects via Poison Heal.
If you build around him in this regard and you end up in a scenario like the one you mentioned then it wasn't necessarily Heracross' fault. You just couldn't maintain control of the field the way you wanted, or weren't prepared for a certain strategy like Unaware Clefable, or you got played. Tyranitar and Blaziken are indeed good support pokemon for Heracross like was mentioned. Stemming from that core you need to figure out what you need from there. The crucial things being a Water and Ground resist for example.
I just made a team around this guy and I'm going to give him a shot soon. My whole team is focused on setting up a Hera sweep so I'll see how good my team building skills are. Will likely have to switch things around here and there to cover things I didn't think of but hey, that's how team building rolls. I'm gonna try a Hippowdon with rocks and Roar, hopefully able to bring Talonflame out early for free damage, or Roar away opposing sweepers, and I have a Regirock for the physical side and Sap Sipper Assault Vest Goodra for the special side and two potential baton passers. Off we go!
Heatran.
Best partner for megacross i can think of. 4x resists fairy 2x resists flying (cross 4x weak to) 2x resists psychic and immune to fire (all weaknesses covered). In return, megacross resists fighting and ground. I see potential for this bulky core. Heatran can hazard phase (SR+Roar) also, to turn 3HKOs to 2HKOs and 2HKOs to OHKOs. He can also burn with WoW or lava plume. Add sticky web a wish passer and a water resist and you're all set
Best partner for megacross i can think of. 4x resists fairy 2x resists flying (cross 4x weak to) 2x resists psychic and immune to fire (all weaknesses covered). In return, megacross resists fighting and ground. I see potential for this bulky core. Heatran can hazard phase (SR+Roar) also, to turn 3HKOs to 2HKOs and 2HKOs to OHKOs. He can also burn with WoW or lava plume. Add sticky web a wish passer and a water resist and you're all set
If you Out predict an Aegislash it instantly dies from Earthquake, and even if you don't no attack decrease. MegaHeracross will easily be OU. A baton passed speed boosted Heracross will murder everything. I'm looking into using barbaracle to smashpass too. As a bonus with Barbaracle around you can wipe that smug face off talonflame. Besides, how does an Hp invested MegaCross stand up against Talon Flame if it was just baton passed a swords dance/ speed boost. If it can take the first hit, it can easily OHKO with rock-blast and sweep. So yeah, OU. Especially with Stealth rock support a somewhat prepared team can roast talonflame. Heracross can demolish teams even without support. It has Great coverage moves.
Heracross @ Mega Stone
Evs: 252 atck, and a balance of Hp/speed, or if you are baton passing, just HP.
Earthquake
Pin Missile
Armthrust
Rock Blast/swords dance
It gets pretty awesome coverage with this set. It can chew through Aegisslash, and can literally spam earthquake without fear, or swords dance.
Heracross @ Mega Stone
Evs: 252 atck, and a balance of Hp/speed, or if you are baton passing, just HP.
Earthquake
Pin Missile
Armthrust
Rock Blast/swords dance
It gets pretty awesome coverage with this set. It can chew through Aegisslash, and can literally spam earthquake without fear, or swords dance.
Hm, Scolipede (Sword Dance, Speed Boost, Baton Pass) , Sticky Web (Shuckle / Galvantula) and Mega Hera could make a solid core for a mono team (Maybe add Vulcarona).
Today I had a hilarious experience with an enemy Mega Heracross. I like to keep a Druddigon on my team as a sort of pseudo-phaser and for the unexpected Glare because I'm a terrible scrub like that. Anyway, the opponent was using Heracross, and at that point I realized that none of my frail sweepers could possibly take a hit from it so I panicked and switched in my bulkiest living Pokemon, Druddigon, in an attempt to stall for time and hopefully do a little bit of chip damage with my rough skin + rock helmet combo.
It mega-evolved and used Arm Thrust, destroying itself. My opponent promptly quit even though they could easily have beaten my team with their perfectly untouched Cloyster.
The moral of this story is...don't use arm thrust when your opponent has a Pokemon with iron barbs or rough skin (unless it's Sharpedo). It's probably not going to end well.
It mega-evolved and used Arm Thrust, destroying itself. My opponent promptly quit even though they could easily have beaten my team with their perfectly untouched Cloyster.
The moral of this story is...don't use arm thrust when your opponent has a Pokemon with iron barbs or rough skin (unless it's Sharpedo). It's probably not going to end well.
isn't megacross going to have a difficult time taking a STAB flying move from talonflame since its x4 weak? Talonflame has priority after all..
I think only if Megacross has considerable HP investment and used a Bulk Up could it withstand a +0 Talonflame Brave Bird. And even if he does survive, there isn't much left holding on. Don't even bother sending MegaHera out until their Talonflame is dispensed of. No decent player would switch him into that thing.
As for how to accomplish this? I think one of the better strategies is having Rocks out and a phazer. If you manage to drag Talonflame out its now sitting at a mere 50% and is put in a bind. It can risk Roosting and being taken out with an attack, or switching out and risking being brought back in prematurely or unable to spin the rocks away and die immediately upon re-entry. Hippowdown is bulky enough to lay the rocks, Roar him in and kill him with Stone Edge, or EQ if he's going to Roost. Tyranitar likewise can lay rocks and resists both STABs.
Talonflame incidentally makes a good team mate for Megacross himself. Tailwind and U-Turn can get a 4x Attacks Megacross in with 3 good turns to do serious damage. Priority Tailwind is a much safer way to ensure Megacross gets speed, and far more reliable than keeping Sticky Web around. Gliscor is probably one of the better Baton Passers for Megacross, able to pass any combination of Agility, Swords Dance and Substitute and is bulky enough to get the boosts off. The problem with Scolipede as a passer to Megacross is the shared weaknesses to Fire, Psychic and Flying. Megacross at least is neutral to Water and Ice. Jolteon likewise can pass Agility and Substitute and Megacross has no trouble taking an Earthquake aimed at him. Jolteon's natural speed and Electric moves are also good at threatening the numerous Flying types that threaten Megacross, able to outspeed and OHKO numerous bulky Flying types like Gyarados, Charizard Y, Skarmory, Togekiss, Hawlucha and can speed tie Crobat (or outspeed with Agility). With HP Ice Gliscor and Landorus will also be in trouble.
In my attempts at using Megacross a consistent issue is being able to eliminate all fast threats, slow them down or BP to Megacross for a reliable sweep. It's a lot to ask for. And the issue with being weak to Flying types is that Sticky Web specifically doesn't affect them. Oh, and come Pokebank he should really run enough speed to outrun standard defensive Heatran, who is BST 77 opposed to Megacross' BST 75
As for how to accomplish this? I think one of the better strategies is having Rocks out and a phazer. If you manage to drag Talonflame out its now sitting at a mere 50% and is put in a bind. It can risk Roosting and being taken out with an attack, or switching out and risking being brought back in prematurely or unable to spin the rocks away and die immediately upon re-entry. Hippowdown is bulky enough to lay the rocks, Roar him in and kill him with Stone Edge, or EQ if he's going to Roost. Tyranitar likewise can lay rocks and resists both STABs.
Talonflame incidentally makes a good team mate for Megacross himself. Tailwind and U-Turn can get a 4x Attacks Megacross in with 3 good turns to do serious damage. Priority Tailwind is a much safer way to ensure Megacross gets speed, and far more reliable than keeping Sticky Web around. Gliscor is probably one of the better Baton Passers for Megacross, able to pass any combination of Agility, Swords Dance and Substitute and is bulky enough to get the boosts off. The problem with Scolipede as a passer to Megacross is the shared weaknesses to Fire, Psychic and Flying. Megacross at least is neutral to Water and Ice. Jolteon likewise can pass Agility and Substitute and Megacross has no trouble taking an Earthquake aimed at him. Jolteon's natural speed and Electric moves are also good at threatening the numerous Flying types that threaten Megacross, able to outspeed and OHKO numerous bulky Flying types like Gyarados, Charizard Y, Skarmory, Togekiss, Hawlucha and can speed tie Crobat (or outspeed with Agility). With HP Ice Gliscor and Landorus will also be in trouble.
In my attempts at using Megacross a consistent issue is being able to eliminate all fast threats, slow them down or BP to Megacross for a reliable sweep. It's a lot to ask for. And the issue with being weak to Flying types is that Sticky Web specifically doesn't affect them. Oh, and come Pokebank he should really run enough speed to outrun standard defensive Heatran, who is BST 77 opposed to Megacross' BST 75
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This man does pretty decent on a rain team, at least my rain team. Really needed a slightly bulky poke that could take ground attacks and could hit physically, and this poke fits that role greatly! Thought he had a pretty weak design initially but he is really growing on me. I run adamant max hp max attack and just hit stuff with 4 attacks. Bullet seed is really unexpected, i found, and helps crush ground/ water types and it hits so damm hard, even neutrally. Will use him more to see what else he can do.
How viable is this set?
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bulldoze
- Bullet Seed
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
Bulldoze has always been considered unviable in gimmicky, but I think that Heracross makes it work. It has a measly 75 Base Speed, so the -1 Speed it really appreciates. It is actually pretty powerful thanks to Heracross' Attack. It complements well and actually works decently in tandem together!
Heracross @ Heracronite
Ability: Moxie
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Adamant Nature
- Bulldoze
- Bullet Seed
- Pin Missile
- Rock Blast
Bulldoze has always been considered unviable in gimmicky, but I think that Heracross makes it work. It has a measly 75 Base Speed, so the -1 Speed it really appreciates. It is actually pretty powerful thanks to Heracross' Attack. It complements well and actually works decently in tandem together!
wow yea i actually really like that. Might swap out CC for bulldoze!
This thing is so good ffs, people should use it more. with Sticky Web support this thing wrecks entire teams even unboosted.
ikr, its like cloyster except reasonably better typing, butt load more attack, better coverage, and yea like you said can destroy stuff unboosted. Im loving it so far.
I have one in game with Rock Blast, honestly i think Bullet Seed is not worth a move I'd rather have Earthqauke or Rock Slide (Doubles)
I'm playing with doubles, and in my team there is a Speed Boost Scolipede that I baton pass to him sometimes, but on his own he's still very good, the problem I've been facing repeatedly with Rock Blast / Close Combat / Protect / Pin Missile is Garchomp's Dragon Rush, Aegislash, and Talonflame.
I'm playing with doubles, and in my team there is a Speed Boost Scolipede that I baton pass to him sometimes, but on his own he's still very good, the problem I've been facing repeatedly with Rock Blast / Close Combat / Protect / Pin Missile is Garchomp's Dragon Rush, Aegislash, and Talonflame.
i dunno depends on what you need to cover right? I have a rain team that gets shut down by ferrothorn and water/ground types so bullet seed def helps on the latter. Also, a bunch of bulky water types that try and abuse the rain dont see a base 125 100% accurate grass type move coming off of 515 attack in the face.
My first match with Mega Heracross was pretty cool. I almost swept this guy, he called me gay when I killed one of his pokes (I think his team was Blissey/Chansey/Reuniclus/Roserade/Vaporeon/Deoxys-D), and then he forfeited.
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