RaiZard: A Combination Idea

Hans

Changes in bloo.

Well, this is a two-pokemon combination that is meant to quickly and effectively set-up and possibly sweep entire teams. I created this combination on Netbattle while experimenting with my team, which just so happened to contain a Pikachu and a BellyZard (for those of you who don't know, a BellyZard is a Belly Drumming Charizard). Looking at the D/P analysis for Pikachu, I decided that I really liked the Encore set, which is based on using the move Encore to either set-up Light Ball Pikachu with a free subtitute or to set up a fellow team member.

Here was the set I was using at the time:

Pikachu @ Light Ball
Nature: Timid
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Spd, 252 SpAtk, 6 Def
~ Substitute
~ Encore
~ Thunderbolt
~ HP Ice [70]

I didn't have a real strategy at first, I just was playing around with Substitute and Encore to possibly give Pikachu a free sub while they switch out (for example, I would Encore an opposing Dusclops using Mean Look). The switch out was usually to something that knew Earthquake (most of the time it was Swampert). All sorts of things that knew Earthquake appearered in front of Pikachu, and so I concluded that this thing attracted EQs like flies to cow droppings.

It was sort of obvious from there. Switch to something that won't be able to OHKO Pikachu, and set up a Substitute as they either switch out or use Earthquake. When the (almost) inevitable Earthquake comes, Pikachu must hide behind its substitute, Encore the EQ, and take one for the team. This gives BellyZard a free switch in, and they will be forced to switch out, giving you a free Substitute. Then you Belly Drum up as they break the sub. Salac Berry will activate and BellyZard will start to sweep. That's the idea anyway.

I tried this out several times on NB and it swept unprepared opponent's easily, although sometimes the EQ that had Pikachu's name on it never came therefore the combo didn't work out.

After some three seconds of research, I learned that Pikachu's evolution had a base speed of 100, opposed to the smaller rat's base speed of 90. Raichu is one of the fastest users of Encore in the game. You need to use Pika/Raichu anyways, because they are the only users of Encore who will constantly attract the most commonly-used move in the game, EQ.

Now I haven't tried this in D/P yet, but the sets would supposedly go something like this:

SET UP
dpmfa026.png

Raichu @ Leftovers
Nature: Timid
Ability: Static
EVs: 252 Spd, 252 SpAtk, 6 HP
~ Substitute
~ Encore
~ Thunderbolt
~ Wish

The idea is to have the fastest Substitute / Encore combo possible, so that's why I maxed out speed. Substitute and Encore are givens, of course, and so is Thunderbolt. The last slot is Wish, which allows BellyZard to come in, even if Stealth Rock is in play. However, Raichu probably won't live long enough to Encore an EQ if it tries to get a Wish off. The ideal situation here is if a Choice Band Earthquaker (CB Metagross, for example) comes in to possibly revenge kill Raichu. Use Wish and let the opponent's EQ kill you. Send in Charizard, and Wish will heal the damage done from Stealth Rock. Substitute on the switch and Belly Drum up. Salac will activate and then you can sweep away for a while.

The easier way to pull of this combo is to send in Raichu against something that can't OHKO it, and you set up a Substitute on the predicted switch. From there, you attack the opponent once, and as they break your Substitute with EQ (hopefully its EQ), you Encore it and take one for the team. BellyZard will come in to revenge kill (their whole team that is).

AND SWEEP
dpmfa006.png

CHARIZARD @ Salac Berry
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Blaze
EVs: 252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 Def
IVs: 30 HP
~ Substitute
~ Belly Drum
~ Fire Punch
~ Earthquake

The second part of the strategy. I was originally running the physical Hidden Power Flying and Earthquake on NB, but this will have to do in D/P. You set up a Substitute on the switch (if Raichu did its part, then they have to switch or it'll be even easier for you). Belly Drum up and Salac will activate (as stated in the D/P analysis, a HP IV of 30 puts you right at Salac range after using Substitute and Belly Drum). Then just sweep away with the two attacks listed.

OVERVIEW:

It looks pretty good on paper in D/P, but as I mentioned earlier, I haven't tried it yet. It worked in NB at least...

I do realize that the two sets I mentioned are almost the same as the ones in the D/P analysis, but i've never seen anybody use this combo or something like this, so I figured that I would throw it out there.

I realize this has decent a chance of failing, put it probably has an equal or greater chance of setting up BellyZard and sweeping / taking out a large portion of the opponent's team.

Opinions / Constructive criticsm is encouraged. If this is improved enough, I believe that it might be able to become a somewhat viable (if not risky) option in standard play.

P.S. You will probably need a Rapid Spinner incase the opponent has Stealth Rock up, or that will ruin you completely.
 
I think a non-standard Umbreon set would prove to be better than the Pikachu one.

That is, an Umbreon with Substitute, Baton Pass, Wish, and Mean Look.

On your opening move, you just do a Mean Look Pass to Charizard, unless your opponent opens with a Stealth Rocker. In that case, you stick in a Wish before your Pass.

Now you have Charizard on the field. Use Substitute, as usual. After you Sub, you'll be at 75% regardless of Stealth Rocks thanks to Wish, and you may or may not have your Salac activated at this time. After that you get to drum, punch, and beat the stuffing out of everything.

Now, if something manages to Haze or PHaze you, Umbreon's true usefulness comes in. When the Hazer/PHazer is taken care of, you switch back to Umbreon on something you can setup with and Mean Look it. Then you get to Wish Sub Pass to Charizard, giving it a nice, beefy Sub and 75% HP after it comes in, allowing it to Drum again and sweep the rest. Stealth Rock HAS to be down for this to work, so if you need to bring in a Rapid Spinner in the meantime then do it.

The differences are, obviously, no Encore. Thats bad, but Umbreon can switch out of Mean Look/Arena Trap/etc.

Secondly, I don't think it really matters that you're weak to Ground. If you're not flying, you can expect to be EQed.
 
I don't really get what you're trying to do with Umbreon X-Codes =/ You basically have to keep something that can't do anything to Charizard in and that can be hard.

The Raichu -> Bellyzard thing is something I've kind of tried. Kind of as in I don't have Substitute so I've never pulled it off completely effectively. I hadn't thought of sub really. Makes me realize I should, but I don't want to get rid of Nasty Plot =(

He makes for a great CB Earthquake magnet too. Sadly, most people realize that any physical hit will probably kill it and don't always risk an Earthquake.

The only Encore user I can think of that's faster than Raichu is Alakazam.
 
X-codes: Unfortunately Umbreon has lost a good bit of survivability in D/P, with all of the new, beefed-up attackers introduced. I'm just not sure how it would work out.

And anyways, even though you will be likely to be EQ'ed even if you are not weak to ground, it's common sense that you will be more likely to be EQ'ed if you do have a weakness to it. Not only that, but most people won't expect Raichu to just Encore and accept its fate.

Firestorm: Ah, forgot about Zam. But I just don't think he serves the purpose as well as Raichu, given Raichu's ground weakness.
 
Jumpluff can encore, and Slaking too iirc, but neither of these are practical at all..

Actually Infernape can also... It sorta makes a bit of sense..

Have a nice day.
 
Thanks Hipno, edited accordingly.

Infernape would work, I suppose, but is just not as cool as using Raichu.

: D
 
Also when you Encore their Earthquake, they'll likely suspect you'll switch out to something like a Bellyzard, and possibly take a risk and switch in a Milotic or whatever. If they do, you get a free Thunderbolt on it, and if they don't, you get the free set up. :)
 
True that, Obi. If this ever becomes remotely common, then they probably would suspect Bellyzard and switch to something like Milotic. For now, you might overpredict and lose your chance to set up BellyZard. It's all kind of situational, I suppose.
 
You wouldn't be 'overpredicting'. If they don't switch, they EQ your Raichu, you faint and send in Charizard. Then they are most likely stuck in EQ (just as likely as if you switched), so you've only lost your Raichu.
 
Please don't make it a habit of giving these terrible name mash-ups to everything that might be considered a combination. If you are using a Raichu and a Charizard, they don't magically fuse together into one Pokemon.

I'm not going to change the title here since "GrowthTran" went on for quite a while without being altered, but this is to members that might be reading this thread for precedence.
 
Oh, GrowthTran is Tangrowth + Heatran? I thought it was a Heatran that somehow learned Growth and tried to special sweep lol. =(
 
X-Codes, your entire idea is based on the fact that your opponent is on vacation when you're playing, having something out that isn't hurting either Umbreon or Charizard. Unfortunately, there is not a sane thing in competitive battling that can't hurt either of these.

I like the idea, but sadly a Belly Drum doesn't equal a good game. And it kinda needs that, because you have to bring out Pikachu/Raichu as a lead or something or you get ran over by Stealth Rock. Fortunately the mice learn Wish so you could use that for your last move, I guess. Wish against a Choice Banded Earthquaker, die, then go to Charizard.
 
I like the combo, and off topic Growthtran is the worst name ever for such a combo at first I thought it was just Tangrowth in mixed order (Skarmbliss and Gyravire are decent at least)... Back to the sets, HP Ice would definetly be a better idea than Grass Knot IMO, because Garchomp can screw you with that irritating 2 speed. Jumpluff won't work at all: Charizard can come in on EQ (immune), Grass and Bug (4x), and maybe weaker, non-stab Fighting and Fire moves. None of these (except maybe fire) would be used on Jumpluff, who also has Ground immunity, 4x to grass, neutral to bug and 2x to fighting. Infernape could work but isn't a good idea since he practically invites milotic and swampert (who can also surf!) and generally gives a worse typing to your team. And Slaking as an encorer?

Let me suggest some alternatives on Raichu though. First, a common switch-in just by instinct would be Blissey. It's possible to set up on blissey if the user makes a stupid mistake like calm mind or aromatherapy, but generally blissey will make that Raichu set run. How to remedy this? Focus Punch. Another interesting option, since this isn't exactly a Sweeper-built Raichu, would be Discharge. Basically, any grounds that come in get set-up on, anything else has to fear paralysis. Naturally though this leads to the problem of things like Garchomp or Swampert relying on attacks other than Earthquake. Really though, as long as you have things on your team that can take Ice, Water, Fighting and Rock well you should be ok, having something to switch Raichu out to... but in the end, Raichu is a prime example of "four-slot syndrome," he can counter all his counters, but not all of them at once.

I'd definetly recommend a Wisher and a Rapid Spinner, though in the most optimistic of situations (Raichu succesfully encores EQ, Zard comes in), Stealth Rock could end up netting you a free 1-turn Belly Drum + Salac boost! The only problems would be Sandstorm and Quick-Attackers.

Edit: Wish on Raichu! Good thinking.
 
Ekans Dilos, the problem is that Zard has to decide whether its HP is divisible by 4 or not before the battle.

If it's divisible by 4 then it can get the Salac boost after Belly Drum + 1 sub, allowing it to survive through Sandstorm for a few turns. However, then SR takes it to 50% exactly meaning that you can't Belly Drum.

If it isn't divisible by 4 then it can switch into SR and still Belly Drum, leaving it on 1-3 HP. On the other hand, without SR it would have to Belly Drum and Sub twice to get the Salac boost, meaning that SS would kill it instantly if they had T-tar.

You can't have the cake and eat it.. You can either cater for SR or Sandstorm but not both.
 
Nice idea! I tried to do something like this too, except mine didn't work out to well. I like your idea better! Also, Clefable might help more, because it has higher defenses, and learns Encore and I think Wish.

EDIT: Added sentences. They are nice, use them.
 
I tried this many times but for some reasons opponent didnt bother to switch for an earthquaker instead substituted which helped me alot as well, but I had hard times facing suicune which koed my charizard. I couldn't believe but otherwise great combo.
Note: Just get someone who can wish for charizard because sometimes you really waste his hp.
 
daksunt said:
I tried this many times but for some reasons opponent didnt bother to switch for an earthquaker instead substituted which helped me alot as well, but I had hard times facing suicune which koed my charizard. I couldn't believe but otherwise great combo.
Note: Just get someone who can wish for charizard because sometimes you really waste his hp.
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Suicune is a bit rarer nowadays. Just remember to get bulky waters out of the way as Earthquake won't OHKO them. Gyarados is a threat as well.

And as said before, Raichu does get Wish as an egg move. It's legal with Encore (Togepi line). However, you would now have Thunderbolt as its only attack. The most common switch-in to Raichu is Electivire, who will use Earthquake in most cases. Obviously ground types love switching in two. Garchomp, Gligar, Swampert, etc.
 
I wouldn't bother with HP Ice on Raichu. It can't even OHKO a Salamence, if you nailed him before, you can take him down with Thunderbolt just fine.
Grass Knot looks better to me so Swampert won't destroy your set up.
 
DMFG said:
Ekans Dilos, the problem is that Zard has to decide whether its HP is divisible by 4 or not before the battle.

If it's divisible by 4 then it can get the Salac boost after Belly Drum + 1 sub, allowing it to survive through Sandstorm for a few turns. However, then SR takes it to 50% exactly meaning that you can't Belly Drum.

If it isn't divisible by 4 then it can switch into SR and still Belly Drum, leaving it on 1-3 HP. On the other hand, without SR it would have to Belly Drum and Sub twice to get the Salac boost, meaning that SS would kill it instantly if they had T-tar.

You can't have the cake and eat it.. You can either cater for SR or Sandstorm but not both.
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You're right, my mistake (I wrote that at like, 4 AM lol). But still, having to sub twice for salac might not always be the end of the world, i hear SR is more popular overall than TTar/Hippo.

As for suicune... if it has max hp and defense with boosting nature, then yes it survives even Charizard's strongest attack (laugh all you want), Fly. Anything less, though, will be 1HKOed and that set will still take about 93%. Suicune's popularity is low at the moment, but might change on competitor, especially if Manaphy is allowed (personally I hope not.)

BFC, Clefable defeats the purpose... he doesn't invite EQ, and is slow so he won't go first, Encore the move then die to give way to Charizard.
 
Raichu can learn Encore and Wish if it breeds with a Smeargle. Gotta love the Ground egg group.

Also, the more I look at this particular combo, the more I find that Raichu is uniquely suited for the job.

However, I still think that Umbreon should be in the same party in case a bulky water stops your Bellyzard rampage. You would switch to Umbreon for the Mean Look/Baton Pass and then send in (ideally) Starmie for a Grass Knot or two. Switch back to Umbreon for the Wish Sub Pass and then send Bellyzard on his rampage again.

I realize that theres a ton of hard-hitting attackers in the metagame, but I think that a Lefties-boasting Umbreon with max HP/Def can still take 1-2 hits before subbing, at which point he's not taking any more. Of course, it depends entirely on whats hitting him in the first place.
 
X-Codes said:
Raichu can learn Encore and Wish if it breeds with a Smeargle. Gotta love the Ground egg group.

Also, the more I look at this particular combo, the more I find that Raichu is uniquely suited for the job.

However, I still think that Umbreon should be in the same party in case a bulky water stops your Bellyzard rampage. You would switch to Umbreon for the Mean Look/Baton Pass and then send in (ideally) Starmie for a Grass Knot or two. Switch back to Umbreon for the Wish Sub Pass and then send Bellyzard on his rampage again.

I realize that theres a ton of hard-hitting attackers in the metagame, but I think that a Lefties-boasting Umbreon with max HP/Def can still take 1-2 hits before subbing, at which point he's not taking any more. Of course, it depends entirely on whats hitting him in the first place.
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The problem with this is that Charizard's Salac Berry would be used up. I really don't like 100 base speed for sweeping in DP. Your setup also requires far too many moves. Moves in which the opponent would have switched to multiple counters.

Umbreon's most common switch ins are Heracross and Infernape. So remember to keep in mind that both can use Stone Edge and one can use Thunderpunch. Not only that, CB Close Combat, while not very effective on Charizard, can still hurt quite a bit.
 
Too many WoT's but did anyone mention the Dragonite + Claydol combo? I think it might work with Charizard too.. iono
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Yeah...erm...what?

Anyways, I took out HP Ice / Grass Knot and filled Raichu's last slot with Wish, which can help Bellyzard handle Stealth Rock if a CB Earthquaker comes in. Unfortunately, all this is very situational. It will still help sometimes though.

The most common way to pull of this combo will be with Encore, though.

Edited that in.
 
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