M'kay, fair enough. Low Sweep, though? It's not his hardest hitting move, and he's going to be outspeeding much anyway, right? Is there any point running Reflect on Chesnaught? He already has awesome Defence, so it's not much there, but...
-
Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Pokémon Chesnaught (Revamp Occurring)
- Thread starter Psylink
- Start date
- Status
M'kay, fair enough. Low Sweep, though? It's not his hardest hitting move, and he's going to be outspeeding much anyway, right? Is there any point running Reflect on Chesnaught? He already has awesome Defence, so it's not much there, but...
liquid ooze is also a threat with tentacruel having less reason to run rain dish. I can't see chesnaut fairing well against it in any situation if tentacruel starts carrying a poison move for fairies.
spiky shield seems very appealing because even if something counters it you can still do some damage to it. if talonflame comes in you can still hit it before switching out, pretty useful if SR is up. SR in general is going to be important since the only types that really wall it badly are almost all rock weak(flying, bug)
spiky shield seems very appealing because even if something counters it you can still do some damage to it. if talonflame comes in you can still hit it before switching out, pretty useful if SR is up. SR in general is going to be important since the only types that really wall it badly are almost all rock weak(flying, bug)
Not sure if done. But i've been running this
Careful
Bullet Poof
252 hp/252 spdef
Leftovers
Subsitute
Leech Seed
Payback
WoodHammer/SeedBomb
It has managed to survive a handful of special attacks, and subsitute protects from status.
I also ran an admant one before I bred the careful one
Admant
252 hp/252 attack
Assult Vest
WoodHammer
Earthquake
Facade
Powerup punch
Not as tanky but it hit like a truck.
Careful
Bullet Poof
252 hp/252 spdef
Leftovers
Subsitute
Leech Seed
Payback
WoodHammer/SeedBomb
It has managed to survive a handful of special attacks, and subsitute protects from status.
I also ran an admant one before I bred the careful one
Admant
252 hp/252 attack
Assult Vest
WoodHammer
Earthquake
Facade
Powerup punch
Not as tanky but it hit like a truck.
I came up with this set:
Nature: Adamant
Item: Leftovers/Assault Vest/Lum Berry
Evs: 252 HP / 252 ATK / 4 def
Moves:
- Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
- Hammer Arm/Power-up punch
- Payback/Shadow Claw/Stone edge
- Spiky Shield/Bulk Up/ Swords Dance/EarthQuake
The first and second moves are stab seed bomb for no recoil, wood hammer for more damage, Hammer Arm for raw power and power-up punch to gain attack when attacking low hp foes.
The third move is for coverage and in in the case of payback/shadow claw provides coverage of at least neutral to everything.
The fourth slot is for a filler move either for boosting or regaining health with lefties or Extra coverage.
This set is for attacking weakened foes or weakening foes and not to really sweep.
Nature: Adamant
Item: Leftovers/Assault Vest/Lum Berry
Evs: 252 HP / 252 ATK / 4 def
Moves:
- Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer
- Hammer Arm/Power-up punch
- Payback/Shadow Claw/Stone edge
- Spiky Shield/Bulk Up/ Swords Dance/EarthQuake
The first and second moves are stab seed bomb for no recoil, wood hammer for more damage, Hammer Arm for raw power and power-up punch to gain attack when attacking low hp foes.
The third move is for coverage and in in the case of payback/shadow claw provides coverage of at least neutral to everything.
The fourth slot is for a filler move either for boosting or regaining health with lefties or Extra coverage.
This set is for attacking weakened foes or weakening foes and not to really sweep.
To everyone reading this: Stop posting SubSeed sets, they suck in OU, not because of Chesnaught itself, but it's the nerf of Substitute that wrecked it.
I suppose you're right there, changing it soon.
Outclassed by Breloom. The only thing Chesnaught can pull off without being outclassed is a defensive set. I need an experienced player's opinion before I post a set like that.
I suppose you're right there, changing it soon.
Outclassed by Breloom. The only thing Chesnaught can pull off without being outclassed is a defensive set. I need an experienced player's opinion before I post a set like that.
I used it in The battle maison and it worked quite well, however you're right by it being outclassed by breloom.
EDIT: The thing it has over breloom however is it's bulk which breloom sort off lacks.
I think using Shadow Claw on Chesnaught makes sense if you're trying to use it as a counter to Mega Gengar. Hitting for NFE damage isn't exactly desirable for a counter. You could also mess up a Dragalge by switching in on a Sludge Bomb and hitting it with Dragon Claw. Doubt your opponent would be expecting that, since no-one uses anything other than defensive utility on Chesnaught.
Actually, I think Chesnaught as a whole is a Pokémon designed to be used as a counter. He will suffer 4MSS no matter what he does; he cannot cover all his bases. That leaves the question of what you do want him to cover, as that can be any of a number of things thanks to his massive variety of offensive types. That probably depends on what your particular team is weakest against. Whatever physical-based opponent (or Special-based for certain cases like Lucario, Mega Gengar, Dragalge, etc.) you use him to counter, he'll generally be very good at it, as long as you remember that his "viable counters" list doesn't include Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, or Fire-, Psychic-, and Fairy-types in general.
Actually, I think Chesnaught as a whole is a Pokémon designed to be used as a counter. He will suffer 4MSS no matter what he does; he cannot cover all his bases. That leaves the question of what you do want him to cover, as that can be any of a number of things thanks to his massive variety of offensive types. That probably depends on what your particular team is weakest against. Whatever physical-based opponent (or Special-based for certain cases like Lucario, Mega Gengar, Dragalge, etc.) you use him to counter, he'll generally be very good at it, as long as you remember that his "viable counters" list doesn't include Talonflame, Mega Pinsir, or Fire-, Psychic-, and Fairy-types in general.
Chesnaught would rather set up Spikes on Gengar while it switches out then do Shadow Claw. Chesnaught doesn't have a lot of room for offensive moves on his main set. Dragalge sucks until Adaptility is released. His teammates will help him with his 4MMS (Heatran works great as a partner for a defensive core once released, except for Fighting, but you can get a Fairy or something for that).
Chesnaught, in my opinion, is a Defensive Tank with many options, using his amazing support movepool as he needs to alongside his STAB moves.
I'll post an Assault Vest set, it seems better than it's boosting sets.
Nope, not at all. I think the more questionable choice is stone edge to be honest. The only reason to use stone edge would be to hit things that would likely OHKO anyway like flying and fire types. You could predict the switch and hit for major damage, but you already have utility to keep things like talonflame at bay by using roar on a predicted switch. I personally think that roar is kind of silly with leech seed, but thats your call and it seems to be getting love from others so maybe it is a good idea.
That set is dreadful. If you want it to be offensive then give him attack investment. If you want it to be defensive then give it a nature that boost that. And please don´t use it with belly drum. Use Swords Dance and even then you might as well use Breloom. Anyway if Chestnaught doesn´t make it to OU i think it would still be OU viable. It would be less valuable as a Gengar counter once pokebank comes out because of Sludge Wave though.
Um... they are allowed to post whatever they want man. This is a thread to discuss Chesnaught, and just because you dislike the sets doesn't mean they can't post them :|
They can post, I just don't agree with their opinion. If someone wants to find it, even though it may be outclassed, they can take the time and effort to do so. This also has to do with the "New users" thread kd24 posted.
By all means, disagree with them. Thankfully, I don't really need permission to post things you may not happen to agree with.
At the same time, offensive sets listed may as well be made for other tiers. General opinion that I see here is that while he is OU viable, he may not be an OU staple. So why not also discuss other, non-OU sets? Will they be viable there?
At the same time, offensive sets listed may as well be made for other tiers. General opinion that I see here is that while he is OU viable, he may not be an OU staple. So why not also discuss other, non-OU sets? Will they be viable there?
Gengar does not get Sludge Wave through gen V move tutor.
He gets it from Dream World... but I don't think we will be seeing too much of them in link battles, due to it being a pain to get... and correct me if I am wrong, but didn't they stop the dream world service for last gen?
Correct, however he obtained it via the dream world, so his point is perfectly valid.
I wonder if chesnaught gets shell smash...
Oddly enough, there actually is something in his egg group that gets it. Torkoal has access to this move, so perhaps he can pass it on to chesnaught.
Oddly enough, there actually is something in his egg group that gets it. Torkoal has access to this move, so perhaps he can pass it on to chesnaught.
Physically defensive Spikes is definitely viable in OU, but I think it really has to work a niche with Ferrothorn sporting Spikes and similar (arguably better) typing, but being able to tank on the special side and set SR as well. Should it fall out of OU, I think it will be able to branch out into more bulky offense roles, such as Choice Band or 3 attacks + Synthesis and Adamant. In OU there are just too many powerful pokemon with typings that allow them to take its STAB attacks with ease, making it hard to punish your opponent for allowing it to switch in...unless you are setting up Spikes on them.
Bulk Up and Swords Dance are just not good ideas. It's too slow for SD and too frail in SpD for Bulk Up. Special Attackers will have an easy time revenge killing, even if they aren't very fast. Also the #1 catch-all revenge killer Talonflame is going to easily destroy you with Flying moves despite any Bulk Up boosts. Your best bet is to be a pivot; switch in, force your opponent to defend, then use attacks, spikes, or Leech Seed while they switch.
Bulk Up and Swords Dance are just not good ideas. It's too slow for SD and too frail in SpD for Bulk Up. Special Attackers will have an easy time revenge killing, even if they aren't very fast. Also the #1 catch-all revenge killer Talonflame is going to easily destroy you with Flying moves despite any Bulk Up boosts. Your best bet is to be a pivot; switch in, force your opponent to defend, then use attacks, spikes, or Leech Seed while they switch.
Last edited:
Spikes Ferrothorn is always paired with Stealth Rock Tyranitar, but both have poor synergy as any fighting pokemon can break it (notably Breloom) as well as any pokemon with swords dance and Earthquake, like Excadrill. Mega Venusaur hates Sandstorm as it doesn't have leftovers, Breloom isn't bulky, Amoongus is somewhat bulky but still can't handle Swords Dance excadrill and doesn't really have spikes. Chesnaught however has much better synergy with Tyranitar and has both spikes and roar. It also counters breloom and both counters and checks Excardrill and is able to carry leftovers. Defensive Chesnaught is also more bulky than Defensive M. Venusaur
Last edited:
So from what I gather in most posts.
You ideally want to have an SR (i.e TTAR) and spiker (chesnaught) and things like Roar compliment it well.
How do you exactly counter breelom aside from just switching into the fighting or grass move?
By laying down Spikes while Breloom does nothing to you.
As the previous person mentioned laying down spikes. Also Roar is essential so Breloom can't set up Swords Dance or Substitute on you! It can't use spore on you since you are a grass type. But let me run some calculations to show you:
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught: 87-105 (22.89 - 27.63%) -- possible 5HKO
In the worst cases:
+2 252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Chesnaught : 175-208 (46.05 - 54.73%) -- 8.98% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Breloom Focus Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def (custom): 169-199 (44.47 - 52.36%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Chesnaught Hammer Arm vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 138-163 (52.67 - 62.21%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Last edited:
- Status