[QC READY 0/3] Nidoking

Epikhairz

Epikhairz

Anything goes
This was my favorite Pokemon when I first started BW UU so yay :D
Question - Is a Choice Scarf set good? If so, should I just tack the item slashed to Life Orb or make an entirely new set?

034.gif


[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Wide special movepool</li>
<li>Hidden ability Sheer Force boosts all of its special moves and nullifies Life Orb recoil</li>
<li>It can now use its Poison-typing to hit Fairy-types supereffectively, and is one of the few that can do so viably</li>
<li>Attack got boosted to 102 so it can run an effective mixed or physical set with moves such as Poison Jab and Rock Slide</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Sub-par stats, especially its base SpA of 85</li>
<li>81/77/75 defenses leave much to be desired</li>
<li>No secondary effects on its moves means Nidoking will not be parahaxing or burnhaxing to save your ass</li>
<li>Four-moveslot-syndrome</li>
<li>Slow</li>
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>name: Mixed Attacker<br />
move 1: Poison Jab / Sludge Wave<br />
move 2: Earth Power<br />
move 3: Sucker Punch / Fire Blast<br />
move 4: Rock Slide<br />
ability: Sheer Force<br />
item: Life Orb<br />
evs: 120 Atk / 136 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
nature: Hasty / Naive</p>
  • With the boost Nidoking got in Attack, it can run a mixed set quite well
  • Life Orb + Sheer Force = hitting hard without recoil :D
  • Poison Jab is a powerful physical STAB
  • Sludge Wave can be used over Poison Jab for a strong special STAB that hits extremely hard
  • Earth Power is an amazing special STAB that hits many physical walls hard
  • Sucker Punch allows Nidoking to take out weakened foes and also helps mitigate its mediocre speed
  • Fire Blast can be used instead for a strong special attack that gets rid of pesky defensive threats such as Ferrothorn and Forretress
  • Rock Slide is the final slash to easily get through Flying-types - especially Talonflame
  • Nature boosts its Speed without hindering its attacking stats, though Nidoking will be a little more frail.
  • The given EVs are able to OHKO Florges while coming close to getting an OHKO on Blissey (if it switches in on Poison Jab it will die on the next hit)
  • Ice Beam can be slotted in somewhere to get rid of Gliscor
  • Pairs well with Pursuit-trappers such as Scizor to get rid of Psychic-types that pester Nidoking
  • Mega Vensaur or Roserade help get rid of Water- and Grass-types, though they will need to watch out for Psychic-types

<p>name: Choice Scarf<br />
move 1: Poison Jab / Sludge Wave<br />
move 2: Earth Power<br />
move 3: Fire Blast<br />
move 4: Rock Slide<br />
ability: Sheer Force<br />
item: Life Orb<br />
evs: 120 Atk / 136 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
nature: Hasty / Naive</p>
  • With the boost Nidoking got in Attack, it can run a mixed set quite well
  • Choice Scarf mitigates Nidoking's poor Speed stat
  • Life Orb + Sheer Force = hitting hard without recoil :D
  • Poison Jab is a powerful physical STAB
  • Sludge Wave can be used over Poison Jab for a strong special STAB that hits extremely hard
  • Earth Power is an amazing special STAB that hits many physical walls hard
  • Fire Blast is a strong special attack that gets rid of pesky defensive threats such as Ferrothorn and Forretress
  • Rock Slide is the final slash to easily get through Flying-types - especially Talonflame
  • Nature boosts its Speed without hindering its attacking stats, though Nidoking will be a little more frail.
  • The given EVs are able to OHKO Florges while coming close to getting an OHKO on Blissey (if it switches in on Poison Jab it will die on the next hit)
  • Ice Beam can be slotted in somewhere to get rid of Gliscor
  • Pairs well with Pursuit-trappers such as Scizor to get rid of Psychic-types that pester Nidoking
  • Mega Vensaur or Roserade help get rid of Water- and Grass-types, though they will need to watch out for Psychic-types


<p>name: Special Attacker<br />
move 1: Earth Power<br />
move 2: Fire Blast<br />
move 3: Ice Beam<br />
move 4: Sludge Wave / Poison Jab<br />
ability: Sheer Force<br />
item: Life Orb<br />
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
nature: Timid / Modest</p>

  • Sheer Force + Life Orb allows Nidoking to hit like a truck with no recoil
  • Earth Power is a strong STAB attack that can put dents in most threats and gets more supereffective coverage than Sludge Wave
  • Fire Blast lets Nidoking muscle through Ferrothorn and Forretress with ease
  • Ice Beam hits Dragon-types hard, especially those x4 weak to it such as Dragonite and Garchomp
  • Sludge Wave is a powerful STAB with more base power than Earth Power and can hit the new Fairy type supereffectively
  • Poison Jab can OHKO Florges even uninvested and is worth considering over Sludge Wave
  • Pursuit trappers like Scizor to handle pesky special attackers
  • Teammates to handle Water- and Ground-types are appreciated, so things like Mega Venusaur are good teammates

[Checks and Counters]
  • Difficult to counter because of its wide movepool
  • Blissey
  • Azumarill (Aqua Jet)
  • Snorlax
  • Choice Scarf users because Nidoking is relatively slow
  • Alakazam and other fast Psychic-types
  • Mamoswine, who has STAB supereffective priority Ice Shard, STAB Earthquake, and fears only the rare Focus Blast
 
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Epikhairz0603 said:
This was my favorite Pokemon when I first started BW UU so yay :D
Question - Is a Choice Scarf set good? If so, should I just tack the item slashed to Life Orb or make an entirely new set? You should probably have tested this and put it into your analysis. Yes, choice scarf helps nidoking immensely but he loses 30% of his power instantly, which hurts a lot.

034.gif


[Pros]

<ul>
<li>Wide special movepool</li>
<li>Hidden ability Sheer Force boosts all of its special moves and nullifies Life Orb recoil</li>
<li>It can now use its Poison-typing to hit Fairy-types supereffectively, and is one of the few that can do so viably</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Sub-par stats, especially its base SpA of 85</li>This isn't really relevant because after sheer force his special attack is on par with Gengar, and if he's carrying life orb it's on par with Chandelure.
<li>81/77/75 defenses leave much to be desired</li> It's not exactly frail, but those aren't amazing nowadays.
<li>No secondary effects on its moves means Nidoking will not be parahaxing or burnhaxing to save your ass</li>
<li>Four-moveslot-syndrome
</ul>

[Set Recommendations]

<p>name: Special Attacker<br />
move 1: Earth Power<br />
move 2: Fire Blast<br />With the nerf to fireblast/blizzard/thunder I'd say fireblast is the only usable low accuracy move on him, even so I'd run flamethrower since he'll mainly be using fire to kill forretress and ferrothorn.
move 3: Ice Beam<br />
move 4: Sludge Wave / Thunderbolt<br />
ability: Sheer Force<br />
item: Life Orb<br />
evs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe<br />
nature: Timid / Modest</p>

  • Sheer Force + Life Orb allows Nidoking to hit like a truck with no recoil
  • Earth Power is a strong STAB attack that can put dents in most threats and gets more supereffective coverage than Sludge Wave
  • Fire Blast lets Nidoking muscle through Ferrothorn and Forretress with ease
  • Ice Beam hits Dragon-types hard, especially those x4 weak to it such as Dragonite and Garchomp Both of these pokemon kill nidoking completely dead, and from personal experience marvel scale dragonite can take an ice beam quite happily.
  • Sludge Wave is a powerful STAB with more base power than Earth Power and can hit the new Fairy type supereffectively
  • Thunderbolt is good against Water-types or Flying-types that are neutral to Ice Beam such as Talonflame I haven't tested it, but I'd guess that brave bird can probably kill or significantly injure nidoking, I'd test this before you say it's viable.
  • Focus Blast can be slotted in there to hit bulkier Normal-types, but it won't do much against the godly walls such as Blissey I found focus blast useless on nidoking when I ran it, he can cover everything focus blasts covers with 100% reliability instead.
  • Teammates to handle Water- and Ground-types are appreciated, so things like Mega Venusaur are good teammates Psychic types are also nidokings bane, especially since they tend to be specially bulky and fast.
[Checks and Counters]
  • Difficult to counter because of its wide movepool Anything faster than nidoking is a major threat.
  • Blissey
  • Azumarill (Aqua Jet)
  • Snorlax
  • Choice Scarf users because Nidoking is relatively slow Even non choice scarf users give him trouble, nearly everything these days is over 100 base speed.
  • Alakazam and other fast Psychic-types
  • Mamoswine, who has STAB supereffective priority Ice Shard, STAB Earthquake, and fears only the rare Focus Blast
  • You should also mention fast earthquake kills him dead, since that's a very common move that annihilates nidoking.
  • Oh and jellicent utterly destroys nidoking.
Additional notes:
Nidoking now has 102 attack. With sheer force he can hit like a truck, literally with physical moves.

Notable moves that combo with his sheer force:
Rock Tomb - Essentially a 90~ power rock move with 95% accuracy, usable if you hate missing.
Bulldoze - Hits only a tiny bit weaker than earthquake if my calculations are correct, but has no life orb recoil.
Rock Slide - More powerful than rock tomb but 90% accuracy instead. Around 120 power or so after life orb and sheer force.
Poison Jab - Amazing STAB move, sadly not a great attacking type but it's basically a 120~ power move before stab with no downside
Power up Punch - As far as I know sheer force nullifies the attack gain, useless.
Iron Tail - About 160 base power and steel is a more relevant offensive type now, but the 75% accuracy kills you dead
(all those base power calculations are assuming life orb)

Notable moves regardless of sheer force:
Earthquake - Always relevant
Head smash - No sheer force bonus but it's still 150 power + a life orb
Dragon Tail - Phasing is lovely.
Sucker Punch - Deals with pesky fast psychic types nicely.
Thrash - Iffy but it's seen use on other pokemon.
Megahorn - Kills darks and psychics dead.

Not to mention his support pool is vast. He gets toxic spikes, roar, taunt, weather moves, sub and toxic etc.
Click to expand...

I'd like to point out that due to sheer force and life orbs nature, the boost is around 50-60% bonus power to applicable moves (I'm not entirely sure if the percentages are added or multiplied)
But the key thing is, it boosts moves whether you invest in a stat or not, for this reason nidoking can hit pretty hard even with uninvested stats, meaning you can run bulk instead of attack stats and still hit hard, or alternatively, and I think this shocks me the most, but in this gen I think it's almost possible to pull off a mixed nidoking set. Choice scarf for speed or Life orb for damage, you can hit with very powerful moves on both sides, even if you split your EVs evenly between the two stats. With the right moves, nidoking is hitting like his offensive stats are well over 100, but he's restricted in some unique ways (can't hold useful items, and if he runs scarf he's weaker by default)

I *still* don't think he's good enough to see regular play, primarily due to his terrible speed, but he'll be hitting way harder and I think one of the most dangerous things about nidoking is he can do a billion different jobs, and he can do most of them well. You might see a nidoking and expect a special attacker with good coverage and slow speed, possibly a scarf, but I think a bulky nidoking or a physicalking or even a mixed king can be plenty viable these days, and the surprise factor helps too.

Don't see nidoking's massive movepool as a problem, because he can fill in the coverage your team needs and he can do it with aplomb, but he needs support.

Also although everything is a good baton pass receiver, I think nidoking is an even better candidate, if you can get him +2 speed somehow he barely even needs any additional boosts to start sweeping with amazing coverage. If nidoking is hitting first, pokes are dying.
 
Defensively, Nidoqueen is much better, so investing fully in defenses is mostly pointless for Nidoking, since he separates himself from Nidoqueen by being more powerful. A few HP ev's might be possible, but someone has to do some calcs too see what he is living with hp investment. Basically, speed probably needs to be maxed 100 % of the time, unless you're doing some kind of mixed set, where you might be forced to invest more in his attacking stats. He might be a little too slow for a mixed set in OU though, but if the Meta switches toward a bulky offensive play style, his speed might not be as much of an issue. Correct me if I'm wrong though, I have not tried the King in OU yet.
 
Even though it doesn't seem to be using physical moves, I would be sure to mention somewhere at the very least that in XY he (and the Queen) got a +10 boost to their base Attack.
 
I use a choice scarfed nidoking in OU for OHKO'ing certain things such as Greninja, Mawile, Garchomp, Klefki and Blaziken before it was banned. It works pretty well. Most people don't expect their greninja to be outsped. I've also been able to survive brave bird from non-life orbed talonflame and OHKO with thunderbolt
 
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With Nidoking's base attack stat being 10 points higher this gen than in previous gens, I suggest making a mixed set. Poison Jab would ruin fairy type special walls, flamethrower could be used to 2HKO Gourgeist and possibly Trevenant, and OHKO Ferrothorn and Scizor, Earthpower for ground STAB since EQ doesn't get the Sheer Force boost. Not sure about a fourth move or the EV spread.
 
Backing a mixed set with Stone Edge in the last slot.

Regarding Choice Scarf, I think it should be its own set, as the move choices will be tailored to revenge killing rather than sweeping.
 
On my iPod so short post here

I will be testing mixed when I have time but does anyone have an optimal EV spread that's been working for them?

And should the mixed set overtake he special attacker set or should they be separate?
 
I reckon the mixed set is probably the only niche nidoking can pull off.
Starmie is pretty much a straight upgrade if you want a coverage based special sweeper.

I think the only thing nidoking truly brings to the table is his ability to go mixed well and his expansive movepool, if you aren't using those two things then why aren't you using a different special attacker?
 
Zystral said:
Backing a mixed set with Stone Edge in the last slot.

Regarding Choice Scarf, I think it should be its own set, as the move choices will be tailored to revenge killing rather than sweeping.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't Rock Slide be better due to the lack of Life Orb recoil?
 
For some reason I was under the impression that Stone Edge's crit rate gave it a sheer force bonus. Rock Slide would indeed be better.

Regarding EV spreads, I think that you'd want enough for Poison Jab to OHKO Sylveon, Florges, and potentially Blissey/Chansey. From there, maxing Speed and putting the rest into SpA would seem like a good idea unless the lack in SpA makes you lose a few critical KOes. I plan on running some theorymon calculations later.
 
I can't believe Sheer Force still negates Life Orb damage; I was 100% positive that it was a glitch which would be fixed here.
Anyway, for a Physical/Mixed Set, I would definitely use Sucker Punch. It's a shame that this thing doesn't get Gunk Shot, now that it's accuracy is 80, because that would've been a great STAB.
 
Zystral said:
For some reason I was under the impression that Stone Edge's crit rate gave it a sheer force bonus. Rock Slide would indeed be better.

Regarding EV spreads, I think that you'd want enough for Poison Jab to OHKO Sylveon, Florges, and potentially Blissey/Chansey. From there, maxing Speed and putting the rest into SpA would seem like a good idea unless the lack in SpA makes you lose a few critical KOes. I plan on running some theorymon calculations later.
Click to expand...

252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Blissey: 784-924 (120.24 - 141.71%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Poison Jab vs. 4 HP / 252 Def Blissey: 370-437 (56.74 - 67.02%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Depends if blissey has defensive investment, which it probably does.

Unowninator said:
I can't believe Sheer Force still negates Life Orb damage; I was 100% positive that it was a glitch which would be fixed here.
Anyway, for a Physical/Mixed Set, I would definitely use Sucker Punch. It's a shame that this thing doesn't get Gunk Shot, now that it's accuracy is 80, because that would've been a great STAB.
Click to expand...

I think it's secretly a feature, to encourage using those moves even more.
 
I think a physical mixed set might actually be the best (not having tested mind you). It can break through Blissey, Florges, Slyveon, Togekiss, Tyranitar, Tentacruel, Ninetails this way, as well as better handle some special tanks/Assault vest users. EQ and PJ being the main moves with Ice Beam and Fire Blast to deal with Hippo/Gliscor/Scizor/Ferrothorn/Gourgeist (which I can't confirm since the Showdown Damage calc is down but should not require significant EV investment to be appropriately effective). Rock Slide could be slashed with Ice Beam to provide better support against Talonflame, Cloyster, Volcanrona (though all of those are faster/have priority that will hurt). I have not tested this but it appears to be a decent set that separates it from the many special sweepers it has to compete with.

Oh I guess it also has Sucker Punch...
 
It's very hard to pin down a single moveset, also earth power is probably better than EQ since it avoids recoil and hits harder.

Also here are several threats you shouldn't bother covering against:
Gliscor
Hippowdon
Cloyster
Tyranitar
Tentacruel

All of those will 1hko with a SE move before nidoking moves.
 
3mpty said:
It's very hard to pin down a single moveset, also earth power is probably better than EQ since it avoids recoil and hits harder.

Also here are several threats you shouldn't bother covering against:
Gliscor
Hippowdon
Cloyster
Tyranitar
Tentacruel

All of those will 1hko with a SE move before nidoking moves.
Click to expand...
-Aren't Gliscor EVs focused more into HP & Defense?
-It's faster than Hippowdon and according to my calculations, it 2HKOs it, so if it has taken prior damage...
-If I face a Cloyster, I expect it to use Shell Smash, so I'd personally just use Thunderbolt followed by Sucker Punch.
-I can't really speak for the other two though.
 
You mention nearly every one of Nidoking's stats in the cons section except the biggest one - his base 85 Speed is the biggest thing holding him back.

Anyway, Nidoking did receive a 10 point Attack bonus this gen... although most of his physical moves are still weaker than his special ones, the raw numbers are very close this gen. Here are the calcs:

Against a target with 100/100/100 defenses:
Earth Power: 46.28 - 54.95%
Earthquake: 44.3 - 52.47%

Sludge Wave: 49.25 - 57.92%
Poison Jab: 46.28 - 54.95%

Poison Jab in particular hits most Fairies/special walls on their weaker Defense stat. Nidoking also has Sucker Punch which would be useful on a mixed/physical set to take out Alakazam, put a heavy dent in Starmie (84.3 - 99.2%), etc. Rock Slide in a nice coverage move, but he's still lacking the elemental punches until Pokebank (and they're still weaker than Ice Beam & co).
 
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Shroomisaur said:
You mention nearly every one of Nidoking's stats in the cons section except the biggest one - his base 85 Speed is the biggest thing holding him back.

Anyway, Nidoking did receive a 10 point Attack bonus this gen... although most of his physical moves are still weaker than his special ones, the raw numbers are very close this gen. Here are the calcs:

Against a target with 100/100/100 defenses:
Earth Power: 46.28 - 54.95%
Earthquake: 44.3 - 52.47%

Sludge Wave: 49.25 - 57.92%
Poison Jab: 46.28 - 54.95%

Poison Jab in particular hits most Fairies/special walls on their weaker Defense stat. Nidoking also has Sucker Punch which would be useful on a mixed/physical set to take out Alakazam, put a heavy dent in Starmie (84.3 - 99.2%), etc. Rock Slide in a nice coverage move, but he's still lacking the elemental punches until Pokebank (which, btw, will now be ever-so-slightly stronger than Ice Beam & co).
Click to expand...

Elemental punches are terrible to put on him. You put elemental punches on a physical sweeper to deal with niche threats like say gliscor. On nidoking they're pointless!
He already has the elemental special attacks. You're much much better off using the special versions, you should be using either coverage he doesn't get on special (rock slide or poison jab specifically for blissey) or sucker punch.

Unowninator said:
-Aren't Gliscor EVs focused more into HP & Defense?
-It's faster than Hippowdon and according to my calculations, it 2HKOs it, so if it has taken prior damage...
-If I face a Cloyster, I expect it to use Shell Smash, so I'd personally just use Thunderbolt followed by Sucker Punch.
-I can't really speak for the other two though.
Click to expand...

In my experience gliscor usually either subs up and stalls nidoking out or is an offensive variant and ohkos with EQ.
With hippowdon it'll probably just EQ and kill nidoking or slack off damage, not to mention stockpile builds will eat nidoking alive.
Cloyster users aren't all morons who shell smash every time, if they DO shell smash then yes, Tbolt sucker punch will drop them, but they'r emuch more likely to icicle spear for a 1hko.
 
...what on earth are you talking about?
3mpty said:
Elemental punches are terrible to put on him. You put elemental punches on a physical sweeper to deal with niche threats like say gliscor. On nidoking they're pointless!
He already has the elemental special attacks. You're much much better off using the special versions, you should be using either coverage he doesn't get on special (rock slide or poison jab specifically for blissey) or sucker punch.
Click to expand...
I was showing calcs for a physical Nidoking set, since that's currently being discussed. The elemental punches aren't even released yet. A mixed set is possible, but splitting EVs is something Nidoking can't really afford to do because of its low base stats.

In my experience gliscor usually either subs up and stalls nidoking out or is an offensive variant and ohkos with EQ.
With hippowdon it'll probably just EQ and kill nidoking or slack off damage, not to mention stockpile builds will eat nidoking alive.
Cloyster users aren't all morons who shell smash every time, if they DO shell smash then yes, Tbolt sucker punch will drop them, but they'r emuch more likely to icicle spear for a 1hko.
Click to expand...
Gliscor doesn't run speed, so Nidoking easily OHKOs with Ice Beam.

Hippowdon only has a 50% chance to be 2HKO'd by Ice Beam even with SR, and can't be 2HKO'd without it when you factor in Lefties. If Hippowdon switches in for free, Nidoking will be forced out due to EQ. There's no Slack Off or Stockpiling involved....

Cloyster is outsped by Nidoking and OHKO'd by Thunderbolt. It also has a chance to be OHKO'd by Sludge Wave, and is guaranteed with SR or even Spikes. So Cloyster will always lose if it switches into Nidoking, but the reverse is true as well. Nidoking cannot ever win if it switches into a SS Cloyster, so this matchup is irrelevant.

Anyway: I haven't tested mixed Nidoking on the ladder, but it deserves some consideration. I'm not convinced it's worth reducing your SpA since Nidoking needs all the power it can get, but Sucker Punch and Poison Jab at least deserve mentions for the reasons I mentioned in my last post.
 
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3mpty said:
Elemental punches are terrible to put on him. You put elemental punches on a physical sweeper to deal with niche threats like say gliscor. On nidoking they're pointless!
He already has the elemental special attacks. You're much much better off using the special versions, you should be using either coverage he doesn't get on special (rock slide or poison jab specifically for blissey) or sucker punch.



In my experience gliscor usually either subs up and stalls nidoking out or is an offensive variant and ohkos with EQ.
With hippowdon it'll probably just EQ and kill nidoking or slack off damage, not to mention stockpile builds will eat nidoking alive.
Cloyster users aren't all morons who shell smash every time, if they DO shell smash then yes, Tbolt sucker punch will drop them, but they'r emuch more likely to icicle spear for a 1hko.
Click to expand...
Oh right, I forgot about Stockpile. So far, I haven't fought any Hippowdon this gen (yet). And as for Cloyster, wouldn't some players Shell Smash if they predict (or mispredict) a switch?
 
i ran some calcs just now and Nidoking OHKOs Florges with Poison Jab uninvested and gets a 2HKO on Sylveon. It takes about 120ish EVs to OHKO Blissey with Poison Jab. I'll calc a little more and test a bit before coming up with a final EV spread for mixed but this is what I have so far.

Also, I was making a mixed set, but it seems some people want Physical Attacker Nidoking. Should I make that? :I
 
Unowninator said:
Oh right, I forgot about Stockpile. So far, I haven't fought any Hippowdon this gen (yet). And as for Cloyster, wouldn't some players Shell Smash if they predict (or mispredict) a switch?
Click to expand...
If I was piloting cloyster I either wouldn't switch it in against nidoking, or i'd take the safe icicle spear KO.

I probably wouldn't shell smash.
 
Shroomisaur said:
Gliscor doesn't run speed, so Nidoking easily OHKOs with Ice Beam.
Click to expand...

Max speed Timid Nidoking has 295 Speed, while Modest version has 269 Speed.
SubToxic Gliscor in Gen 5 runs 224 ev speed, getting total of 282 Speed.
I believe Gliscor still runs some Speed EV to outspeed Timid Smeargle and Adamant Lucario.
 
Shroomisaur , isn't 90 BP Ice Beam still stronger than Ice Punch from base 102 Attack, though? Correct me if I'm wrong, but 333 * 75 = 24975 and 295 * 90 = 26550. I'd already discussed it a bit with koko when we were talking about Queen, but generally the BP of the special moves tilts the scale over the higher stats. Also the fact that Earthquake doesn't receive a SF boost sucks. 295 * 90 * 1.3 > 333 * 100 , 295 * 95 > 333 * 80 , and IBeam/TBolt would still be better than their physical counterparts. So the only real reason to run physical moves is to hit special walls on their lower defensive stat, so at most that would mean slashing Poison Jab over Sludge Wave for fairies and Blissey (which would force you to run a negative defense nature; not sure it's as much of a problem with King as it is with Queen, though). Take this with a grain of salt because I haven't tested it, but even after Pokebank I'd say full special > full physical in everything but surprise value.
 
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