Ooh, I got mentioned and I didn't even know this thread was a thing.
If you have something else on your team to cover grass-types (and really, it shouldn't be hard), it seems to me that Mega Venusaur could profitably drop Sludge Bomb for Sleep Powder or Leech Seed. It'll kill Azumarill anyway with Giga Drain, and should be able to grind down most other Fairy types.
Ajwf just posted a very interesting stallish set in his RMT with held from RDJcobian and McBarrett:
Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 68 Def / 188 SDef
Relaxed Nature
- Synthesis
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
- Roar
I'd personally change Synthesis -> Leech Seed and Roar -> Sleep Powder, but the mixed defensive IVs and Giga Drain/Earthquake attacking combination are very appealing to me, although I'm not quite clear on what precisely the EVs are meant to survive.
Again, the EV spreads were largely experimental, but it was suggested I get another special wall. Well, venusaur was in the best position, so I just developed a mixed wall with and got the defense and SDef to both be +300 until I found a better spread. As mega venu is the main pokemon on that team, I just designed it to survive a hit or two from Lucario on either side and left it until I found better.
As much as I want to use an awesome Thick Fat Venusaur wall set, I find its lack of team utility to be a hindrance. Roserade, Ferrothorn, Tangrowth, Gourgeist/Trevenant, Amoonguss, and Chesnaught all have superior utility to offer. Gourgeist and Trevenant in particular usually end up being my grass-type mon of choice just because of how strong of a spinner Excadrill is.
(First off, I'm a fan of that sand stall team you made :) Got to use it a good bit in the last 4 months, used it because there wasn't a better way to teach stall nor any more consistent stall teams)
See, utility isn't something every pokemon needs, though. While yes, for stall utility is this glorious idea of having each pokemon have an efficient purpose to the whole and some way to advance the team's wincon, Mega venu just tanks and kills basically everything that doesn't have an SE attack for it. For example, mega venu on my team specifically models after your hippowdon from the 5th gen sand stall team. A mixed wall that can roar targets, recover, and attack a few things in battles it can win with incredible bulk. Granted, yours had added benefits of SR but to be honest, SR is common enough that it isn't a huge hit for Venu NOT to have them.
Just wondering, does HP Ice have any merit on a Relaxed Mixed set? Just wanted to know it's not like I bred one ingame or anything
Unfortunately not. On the ladder in about 300+ matches with Saur, I think I've had an ice weak pokemon switch in only once or twice in one match after they discovered I didn't have sludge bomb (it was pure grass, so sludge bomb still was the better option). The major flying type on the game is TF, who is ice neutral and better off getting hit by sludge bomb. Dragons might be worth it, but I've not seen too many dragons I'd not rather just roar away. I guess it could be an issue if ferrothorn is still popular or grass/poison becomes a thing. But that's like Roserade/Venusaur (non mega)/Victoreebel? I haven't even had landorus stick in on me and prefer taking gliscor with giga drain as to neutralize his EQs a bit more.
The relaxed mixed set, though, has been wonderful. Who needs speed when you have an unstoppable monster?
perhaps its good to invest some speed on venusaur, since he tied with togekiss, if togekiss is faster, venusaur is threatened to be Ko'ed without doing anything.
and a 252 Spa Sludge Bomb won't even OHKO togekiss (though with LO it will)
You have teammates for a reason... And kiss is weak to SR. I'd just rather go to a check/counter for togekiss over trying to use venu to take care of it.
Kakimori the thing is, you are assuming Azumarill would stay in on mega saur, but he never will; mega saur is about a hard counter as azumarill can get (resisting both stabs, and surviving a +6 ice punch). So saying he can be beaten isnt too reliable. If you are looking to stall, I strongly recommend keeping leech seed, as it is unaffected by typing (except grass); and its more reliable than using giga drain on your target. + pokemon. Also, roar does not really have a place on that set, honestly what would you try to accomplish? You use roar to psuedo phase but the pokemon Msaur would come in on, he scares out anyway; and since it attacks second are you gonna roar the switch in? If you added say toxic, and your goal was to spread status it would make more sense. (my 2 cents) Mega saur does not get leftovers recovery, so leech seed is more important than ever for stalling.
Meh. Synthesis is actually quite nice on a team with no sand/rain/hail. But the reason I run roar is roar acts like a reset button to tons of threats. Mainly, Magic guard clefable who is a complete monster otherwise. Sure, I could run sludge bomb over roar in that case, but that doesn't help the cause when clefable gets up a few boosts. Roar also provides a neat niche for causing x2 hazard damage. When Venu comes in and I know there is a switch coming, I roar and get more damage (I do just run rocks, but meh) and perhaps even force another switch. That's the beauty of roar/whirlwind: It is the stall team's equivalent to a pivot. Also, sub users like kyurem thinking I'm a status/seed set lose free health.
Leech seed also provides an issue in that it is simply unreliable and only has 16 PP. On a true stall, 16 pp is absolutely nothing. Also, remember the rest of the set has a combined 40 PP. Roar almost DOUBLES the PP on the set. If going up vs a recover set up sweeper (aka clefable... but there are multiple others), they won't even bother with leech seed. It is a deterrent, but not really a huge one. Mega venu's health is such that most pokemon are only giving about 1/10, even though leech seed recovers 1/8. This is because all mega venu will go max hp investment and a lot of threats vs venu will not. It's not bad, but stall also requires you to keep the opponent switching for that residual damage and leech seed encourages you to keep them in. Leech seed will also draw in grass types that the set cannot really touch w/o sludge bomb.
