So who cares about a sacrifice play. It is necessary sometimes and can't be avoided. Deal with it
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Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]
- Thread starter McMeghan
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With Mega Kangaskhan it never can be avoided unless you have a Sableye or are facing a bad player.
The fact that your check will die or be crippled beyond repair in order to beat it is pretty big. Also it gets plenty of opportunities to set up and switching around benefits the Mega Kangaskhan since it gets to wear down its checks first.
Please show me some Damage Calcs. I would love to see these all survive the incoming hit on the switch in and live the next Sucker Punch.
....
You can't be serious. When sacrifice play is the only reasonable option of getting something in, then there is a huge problem.
And dusclops can easily set up burn pain split and seismic toss on many things so saying it's useless anywhere else tells me that you don't have much experience with it
I barely understood what you said, because this was some seriously horrible grammar. But what you think is that the Kanga won't mega too get it's two plus. That's not how it works, they predict your ghost switch, due to scrappy, hits with pup and get the +1. Then they mega and kill with crunch, and probably the rest of the team too. You fail too understand how good this poke is, and what it is capable of doing, and assume something as stupid as letting Kanga get hit with a burn because I apparently want to stay unmegad to hit pup on ghost twice? Really XD?
I've been lurking for a while and I feel like this discussion should have been brought up ages ago, hell, even before Gengarite was being discussed. I'm going to just state my experiences with it since you all already have done the calcs.
After having played a number of teams that use this thing (and at least half of them would likely suck without it), there are a couple of main problems. The first is that the big momma has only one solid counter in Sableye and only a sparse distribution of things that can quasi-check it, and a few of the ones previously mentioned aren't even OU viable in the first place. Not even dedicated walls like Skarmory or Mandibuzz are effective against her; they just crumple up like tissue paper. As a matter of fact, nearly everything crumples like tissue paper because of her. This results in over-centralization and little team variation, as I've seen previously mentioned in this thread. I'm personally forced to run very specific Pokemon (tends to be a lot of Ghosts, WoW-ers, and Rocky Helmet users) and then build the rest of the team around that 2-3 Pokemon core just because MKanga is that big of a threat. There's very little variation there, and it's not much fun to have to run essentially the same types of Pokemon all the time.
The second, and my biggest problem with it, is that it doesn't take much intelligence to use one effectively (kinda like Blaziken but worse IMO). I'm by no means a great player on Showdown but I can definitely tell when an opponent just slaps MKanga on a team just because of how easy it is to break a team in half using the same strategy over and over again, resulting in brain-dead gameplay. I can't try different styles of play (and overall become better at the game) if MKanga is an always-present threat. That's pretty depressing, especially since all the new breeding mechanics in X/Y are very encouraging for people who want to get further immersed into competitive play (such as myself), and having that basically go to waste because of one Pokemon really sucks.
So overall, as cool as it is that Kangaskhan went from rags to riches, it's too powerful for the tier and IMO isn't conducive to becoming a better player, whether it's being used or fought against. Thus...
Please quickban this thing to hell and back. Thaaaaanks
After having played a number of teams that use this thing (and at least half of them would likely suck without it), there are a couple of main problems. The first is that the big momma has only one solid counter in Sableye and only a sparse distribution of things that can quasi-check it, and a few of the ones previously mentioned aren't even OU viable in the first place. Not even dedicated walls like Skarmory or Mandibuzz are effective against her; they just crumple up like tissue paper. As a matter of fact, nearly everything crumples like tissue paper because of her. This results in over-centralization and little team variation, as I've seen previously mentioned in this thread. I'm personally forced to run very specific Pokemon (tends to be a lot of Ghosts, WoW-ers, and Rocky Helmet users) and then build the rest of the team around that 2-3 Pokemon core just because MKanga is that big of a threat. There's very little variation there, and it's not much fun to have to run essentially the same types of Pokemon all the time.
The second, and my biggest problem with it, is that it doesn't take much intelligence to use one effectively (kinda like Blaziken but worse IMO). I'm by no means a great player on Showdown but I can definitely tell when an opponent just slaps MKanga on a team just because of how easy it is to break a team in half using the same strategy over and over again, resulting in brain-dead gameplay. I can't try different styles of play (and overall become better at the game) if MKanga is an always-present threat. That's pretty depressing, especially since all the new breeding mechanics in X/Y are very encouraging for people who want to get further immersed into competitive play (such as myself), and having that basically go to waste because of one Pokemon really sucks.
So overall, as cool as it is that Kangaskhan went from rags to riches, it's too powerful for the tier and IMO isn't conducive to becoming a better player, whether it's being used or fought against. Thus...
Please quickban this thing to hell and back. Thaaaaanks
No. 1 chill I'm building calcs. No. 2 THAT'S A SCENARIO. Does it have 5 teammates when they're fainted. You're judging it only with boosts. It is possible to not have them. Not saying it's not easy to get them.
Done. You're being absolutely ridiculous at this point.
It's also the biggest Taunt bait in the game outside of Shuckle, Pain Split is not reliable, special attackers like Rotom-W don't care about Burn and can 3HKO it easily (as can pretty much any powerful attacker in OU or even UU), Seismic Toss is a horrible move to be relying on for damage, etc.
You're just making yourself look stupid here.
If you are down 1-6 with Mega Kanga vs. healthy team you did something really wrong.
Lets be realistic here
+1 Return vs 252/252+ Gliscor
42.4% - 50% before Bond
I'm pretty sure Gliscor is significantly more bulky than Landorus T, but If I am wrong, remind me
Meanwhile Zero investment Adamant EQ:
46.2% - 54.7%
Dusclops is a safe swap in.
Sableye is usually a safe swap in, if they don't predict with Scrappy Power Up Punch.
A handful of pokemon aren't enough to keep one from going uber. Darkrai, for example, is easily checked by choice scarf fighting types. The problem is that Darkrai only has a handful of checks, and with Dark Void, hardly any safe swap ins.
Kind of like Kanga.
Oh my godddddddddddddd.... ALL of these pokemon were explained why they don't work earlier in the thread...
Good god this thread has become exactly like the Gengarite thread.
People put in great comments for the ban.
New poster comes in, doesn't give a fuck and doesn't read the calcs/arguments, says "lol I can beat this thing not OP lolololol."
People come in to post more of the same calcs and arguments trying to convince the user.
Repeat cycle.
Seriously, people who already know about MKanga's strengths and why it should be banned, stop posting whenever some idiot comes in and doesn't bother to understand anything. This thread is done. Banned.
People put in great comments for the ban.
New poster comes in, doesn't give a fuck and doesn't read the calcs/arguments, says "lol I can beat this thing not OP lolololol."
People come in to post more of the same calcs and arguments trying to convince the user.
Repeat cycle.
Seriously, people who already know about MKanga's strengths and why it should be banned, stop posting whenever some idiot comes in and doesn't bother to understand anything. This thread is done. Banned.
That's it. You all are saying how bulky kang is, pain split could do some worth. If you all think I'm stupid, maybe you should have realized by now that I don't care. We're not discussing sp. Attackers, nor did I say dusclops always gets a successful burn stall. So maybe you should think THOROUGHLY about the things I say and be... Oh I dunno... open minded
Sorry, I don't see how banning ONE move on a pokemon constitutes it being ANY more silly than banning an entire pokemon(which is basically what you are doing, since nobody would use Kanga without a megastone) just because it has power up punch to make it run through teams.
I'm done with yall nit keeping an open mind about other things. I truly understand a topic when it is said at me, not at another. I could read all freaking day, and this will still help me more. Deal with it. You all have given me calcs and stuff and I appreciate it. But could you please relate to what I'm saying and react civilized. Simply explain why it won't work without subsequently calling me a retard
Sigh...the longer this thread becomes, the more I believe I'm looking at a topic on GameFaqs rather than a premiere battling forum. However, although it's quite obvious that Kanga will be banned. I'm praying we have a month or two of banless recess afterwards, just to let the meta have time to grow.
Why not have Blaziken without speed boost?
Why not have Ho-Oh without a way to remove rocks?
Why not have level 80 Arceus?
And OP means it has a chance to do well in ANY scenario, nit just common/favorable ones.
So try a calc against a bulky wall with no stat boosts idc what tier or type
So try a calc against a bulky wall with no stat boosts idc what tier or type
Kyogre can be allowed in OU if it can't use Scald, Hydro Pump, and Surf
Arceus can be allowed in OU if its not allowed to use Swords Dance, Recover, and Calm Mind
Actually nevermind Return Arceus would be OP
I agree that Dusclops can be used. I try to be open minded.
There are plenty of ways to handle any problem. We have over 700 species of pokemon, even more moves, and tons of attacks. The problem is that there are not enough reliable ways to handle it. And Dusclops, as potentially good as it can be, isn't at home on most teams.
That's called a complex ban if you ban it on Kanga, and it's generally frowned upon. If you just ban the move, it's not fair since it's not OP on other pokemon.
No, that's still to OP.
How about if we made it level 70?
I know, people are too lazy (or stupid, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt here) too confirm their points or read up and check if it's already been said. You don't even have too read all of it, just some, and if you know your meta, you'll know what points are worth making. Sadly, 9/10 people don't D:.
My Kyogre can't beat this Soul Dew Latias with +6 Special Defense. Clearly, it's not OP.
A halved 140bp facade is better than a halved 102 return
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