Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

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RowDog

252+ Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 68-82 (22.3 - 26.9%)
+1 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 262-309 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after PuP)

Copy pasta'd from the Facade thread. These calcs are from Scrappy Khan, not MegaKhan
 
Jaded_Hades said:
It's really that, plus sucker punch. Nothing else, really. Otherwise you could phase it easily or just plain counter it. It doesn't get SD, or Bulk Up, so...
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I think its kind of everything about it. Everything adds a little bit of power bit by bit until its too much. It hits incredible hard. Okay. It has very solid bulk. I see. It can set up for a sweep incredibly easily. Hrm. It has strong priority. Uhhh. It has only one exploitable weakness. You sure about that? It demolishes subs and sashes. I quit.

It's just too much.

Edit: I didn't even get to solid speed and fantastic coverage.
 
Fair points then, but as long as it is switched in after Mega-evolving it is still a sure counter.

EDIT: Nonetheless I don't like the idea of M-Khan running Facade over Return. It's preferable for her to avoid status wherever possible as it will reduce her longevity and can be stalled out without any recovery (outside of Wish which I doubt is going to be on a Facade set). It is also a fair bit more situational and won't be as strong unless statused, which isn't the best thing for it to be asking for IMO.
 
DaiGuren said:
RowDog

252+ Atk Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 68-82 (22.3 - 26.9%)
+1 252+ Atk Kangaskhan Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 262-309 (86.1 - 101.6%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO (guaranteed after PuP)

Copy pasta'd from the Facade thread. These calcs are from Scrappy Khan, not MegaKhan
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It's supposed to be from scrappy kang....
Or are you agreeing with me now? I'm so confused...
 
G-Beast said:
I have not once said that they were counters, I merely said they will trouble him because once they are in SAFELY Kangaskhan will be running for the hills, if you have entry hazards up it will eventually wittle him down to the point that a faster priority user(like say Mach Punch Infernape) will be able to easily revenge kill Kanga.
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You're better off CCing with Infernape, since Mach Punch can only OHKO if Mega-Khan has switched into SR FOUR times. Plus, Infernape is faster. A lot of priority users are hit hard by +2 Sucker Punch anyways, which has higher priority than things like Mach Punch.

You're basically sacrificing things to get your checks in safely. After a couple kills, Mega-Khan will have done its job.
 
jvl101993 said:
You're better off CCing with Infernape, since Mach Punch can only OHKO if Mega-Khan has switched into SR FOUR times. Plus, Infernape is faster. A lot of priority users are hit hard by +2 Sucker Punch anyways, which has higher priority than things like Mach Punch.
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CC cannot even guarantee a OHKO without a boosting item.
 
with everyone all riled up now, I figured it would be a good time to repost my argument from the PR thread that will undoubtedly change everyone's minds
:v4:

Flashback to jump's Uber thread
How easily a pokemon a can sweep a team in common battle conditions with little to no risk to itself or its team.
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Mega Kangaskhan has a disgustingly high sheer damage output because of its ability, Parental Bond. Having a virtual Choice Band boost without the restriction of being locked into a move is insane for most Pokemon, but applying this to a Pokemon with base 125 Attack and base 100 Speed is absurd. Of course, this is ignoring a lot of factors that push it overboard for me. The most obvious one is Power-Up Punch. Having an un-Taunt-able Swords Dance boost that provides chip damage is phenomenal, and the move gives Mega Kangaskhan the opportunity to come in on weakened foes and finish them off while also boosting its Attack. What's worse is Mega Kangaskhan's fantastic bulk for an offensive Pokemon that even allows it to run a defensive set if it so chooses. Nearly unresisted priority and STAB help it muscle through both offensive and defensive checks as well. There is no risk to running Kangaskhan on a team; it is incredibly self-sustaining because of its great bulk and has very few reliable checks in the OU metagame.

Capable of sweeping standard in common battle conditions with one turn of set up or less.
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No one will argue with the fact that setting up for a sweep is incredibly easy. Sometimes it does take two or three turns to set up, but almost every time, one turn cuts it. All it takes is a free switch and sufficiently weakened checks, and you're good to go. The fact that Kangaskhan deals damage while it sets up also greatly compensates for the extra turns that are sometimes necessary in order to sweep. In some cases, you can just continue to spam Power-Up Punch and kill the opponent because it's really hard to OHKO without a super effective attack.

Mega Kangaskhan is pretty clearly an Uber. I know most of what I just posted has been said before, but it's still nice to write it down. The only really good check to Mega Kangaskhan is playing incredibly carefully around it and building a team where the majority of its members can either prevent it from sweeping or outright KO it. Now let's ban this thing so that we can get rid of Mega Lucario please. :toast:
 
Treecko said:
with everyone all riled up now, I figured it would be a good time to repost my argument from the PR thread that will undoubtedly change everyone's minds
:v4:

Flashback to jump's Uber thread

Mega Kangaskhan has a disgustingly high sheer damage output because of its ability, Parental Bond. Having a virtual Choice Band boost without the restriction of being locked into a move is insane for most Pokemon, but applying this to a Pokemon with base 125 Attack and base 100 Speed is absurd. Of course, this is ignoring a lot of factors that push it overboard for me. The most obvious one is Power-Up Punch. Having an un-Taunt-able Swords Dance boost that provides chip damage is phenomenal, and the move gives Mega Kangaskhan the opportunity to come in on weakened foes and finish them off while also boosting its Attack. What's worse is Mega Kangaskhan's fantastic bulk for an offensive Pokemon that even allows it to run a defensive set if it so chooses. Nearly unresisted priority and STAB help it muscle through both offensive and defensive checks as well. There is no risk to running Kangaskhan on a team; it is incredibly self-sustaining because of its great bulk and has very few reliable checks in the OU metagame.


No one will argue with the fact that setting up for a sweep is incredibly easy. Sometimes it does take two or three turns to set up, but almost every time, one turn cuts it. All it takes is a free switch and sufficiently weakened checks, and you're good to go. The fact that Kangaskhan deals damage while it sweeps also greatly compensates for the extra turns that are sometimes necessary in order to sweep. In some cases, you can just continue to spam Power-Up Punch and kill the opponent because it's really hard to OHKO without a super effective attack.

Mega Kangaskhan is pretty clearly an Uber. I know most of what I just posted has been said before, but it's still nice to write it down. The only really good check to Mega Kangaskhan is playing incredibly carefully around it and building a team where the majority of its members can either prevent it from sweeping or outright KO it. Now let's ban this thing so that we can get rid of Mega Lucario please. :toast:
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Treeko, yesterday I prayed for the help of mods (like Paula) and it came. Thank you for clearing that up treeko, I could not agree with you more :)
 
For people saying __ counters Kangaskhan with WoW, __ counters Kangaskhan with Foul Play, can we all realize that: a- if you want to get Sableye in or Zoroark or whatever, something has to die or your "counter" is hurt. b- Kangaskhan can actually switch out.
 
ryuhashegi said:
I don't think it should be banned in OU. Well even in rating battles on Pokemon Rom Games it can't do much against common Pokemon in OU Tier too such as Inner Focus Lucario or Intimidate Hitmontop. Kangaskhan sure is not a problem. Kangaskhan is also actually taking up the slot for a mega pokemon where actually there are more good Mega Pokemons out there (I know he is super strong too). It's set is also predictable such as Scrappy Fake Out with Sucker and Return. And the other one could be earthquake, outrage, Power up Punch and so on. It doesn't have a very nice movepool too.

My vote is that I don't think Kangaskhan should be banned. If Parental Bond does the damage twice with consistent power, then I vote for it to be banned. Simple, Kangaskhan without Kangaskhanite is simply useless in OU
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Power Up Punch = Swords Dance that hits for damage
 
KztxL7 said:
You didn't bother to read the thread did you? First, no one uses Fake Out on MKhan.

"Taking Up a Slot". Megas are not mandatory and the only Mega as good as Khan right now is Lucario or Pinsir. The best set is PuP/Return/Sucker Punch/Crunch which gives it perfect coverage and it has teammates to cover what it can't.
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Lucario and Pinsir? They both have usable weakness, the need to set up the old fashion way, and neither of them penetrate focus sashes and substitute. They are still probably OP and maybe a little broken, but compared to Kangaskhan they're tame.

Also:As much as I appreciate Treecko making everything pretty cut and dry, I do think his side note about MegaLuke is what a lot of those people claiming that banning Kangaskhanite would be bad because it would be easier to ban other megas. Its a little off topic, but I don't support a ban of any other megas at this stage of the metagame. If things change after Kangashan is gone, then I might change my mind, but currently no single pokemon is negatively impacting the OU metagame like Kangaskhan.
 
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ryuhashegi said:
I don't think it should be banned in OU. Well even in rating battles on Pokemon Rom Games it can't do much against common Pokemon in OU Tier too such as Inner Focus Lucario or Intimidate Hitmontop. Kangaskhan sure is not a problem. Kangaskhan is also actually taking up the slot for a mega pokemon where actually there are more good Mega Pokemons out there (I know he is super strong too). It's set is also predictable such as Scrappy Fake Out with Sucker and Return. And the other one could be earthquake, outrage, Power up Punch and so on. It doesn't have a very nice movepool too.

My vote is that I don't think Kangaskhan should be banned. If Parental Bond does the damage twice with consistent power, then I vote for it to be banned. Simple, Kangaskhan without Kangaskhanite is simply useless in OU
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Fake Out has been deemed the worst possible 4th move for Mega-Khan. Return/Power-Up Punch/Sucker Punch/Crunch is the standard, with EQ or Fire Punch replacing Crunch. Mega-Khan does everything it needs to with Return/PuP/Sucker Punch. Crunch is to hit Ghosts that switch in. EQ/Fire Punch for Steels. Fake Out is far less important than any of those attacks. You don't need a large movepool to succeed. You need a concise one that has uses in almost all scenarios. Mega-Khan fulfills this.

Hitmontop is not very common. Even so, it can't reliably switch in if Mega-Khan is +2.

+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hitmontop: 271-321 (89.1 - 105.5%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

And CC does not OHKO.

Lucario is outsped and if it switches in on PuP, dies to Return.

252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Power-Up Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lucario: 171-204 (60.8 - 72.5%)

Mega-Pokemon are meant to show how Pokemon with tremendous stats fare without items. But Mega-Khan's ability gives it a free Choice Band boost with the ability to break Sashes and Subs while switching moves, making it better than any item. Of the Mega-Evolutions, only Gengar, Lucario, and Pinsir can really abuse this (and from an offensive standpoint, Mega-Khan abuses it better than any of the others).

This is called the Kangaskhanite Discussion for a reason. We're not trying to ban a Pokemon completely. We're trying to ban an item.
 
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Nobody gives three shits as to whether Kangaskhan is viable or not in OU without the stone. That's completely irrelevant to the discussion. Nobody gives a fuck as to whether Politoed would be useless without Drizzle, or Cloyster without Shell Smash, or Scizor without Bullet Punch, etc, etc. This is because it has no relevance to the topic of "banning a certain aspect of a pokemon". pokemon are tiered based on their best moveset, the movesets in which they perform best. nobody cares about lv70 kyogre in ou >>

also please can we have a rule that prevents people from posting here without actually playing the game because idk about the anti-ban side anymore when you're tossing out hitmontop as a common pokemon in ou
 
The way I see it:

Mega Kanga has very few checks. However; it has a way around most of these checks. In addition the checks are relatively few and far between; and with Kanga's bulk it is not difficult for it to switch back in at a later time once it's check has been removed.

One such common example of a check is Substitute Gengar. However; since the user is aware Gengar is on the team; it is simple for them to predict the switch into Gengar and instead use Scrappy STAB Return.

252 Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 204-240 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Which is a 100% chance to put Gengar into the position where it cannot use Substitute.

So that is 'Substitute Gengar is a counter' debunked. Without going into the fact Gengar has only achieved forcing Kanga out anyway.

But I think the biggest thing is this:

Kanga doesn't even need a set up to be devastating. It still functions like a BP 125 with a Choice Band. This means forcing it out and making it lose PuP boosts isn't even a major issue. With Kanga's bulk it is no issue for it to switch back in later; especially with something like Wish support from a Vaporeon or similar. Burns are not a major hampering because of PuP. At +2 with a Burn you're basically +0; which is still very strong.

A complete lack of a hard counter is bad. Being able to sweep or clean with ease is bad. And being so powerful even without setup means you cannot even force it out like Blaziken and not have to worry too much about it as soon as it returns.

If I was voting; I would vote to Quickban.
 
To give some more perspective, my favorite and usual go-to physical sweepers since dppt have been dragonite, gyarados and salamence. As anyone who played in gen 4 and-to an extent- gen 5 competitively knows, these three have been some of the most terrifying sweepers in the history of the game. They have relative ease setting up a ddance and become immediately threatening to your team. However, even though they were so potent, there were commonly run pokemon running about the OU metagame that absolutely had to be taken care of before they could win you a game. Things like vaporeon, skarmory, swampert and even offensive steel types like scizor in the case of the dragons. What's more, these Pokemon are greatly hindered by stealth rock (which i saw get set up much more frequently in gen 4 than any other time)and had several commonly run checks and hard counters besides SR. You built your entire teams to aid your these sweepers get around problem pokes and moves. Despite needing substantial support, no one can say with a clear conscience that these three were anything less than top tier threats (and totally rad by design). Mega kangaskhan requires nowhere near the amount of support that the aforementioned do because its checks and counters are so few and some so unconventional that they are a burden or extremely subpar outside of beating m-kang. I shudder to think how destructive a team built around this thing could be. I've refused to use mega kang out principle (and just not liking the thing's design since rby that much anyway) up until now, but maybe I'll try it for myself just to experience it a few times.
 
Raikaria said:
One such common example of a check is Substitute Gengar. However; since the user is aware Gengar is on the team; it is simple for them to predict the switch into Gengar and instead use Scrappy STAB Return.

252 Atk Kangaskhan Return vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 204-240 (77.8 - 91.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Which is a 100% chance to put Gengar into the position where it cannot use Substitute.

So that is 'Substitute Gengar is a counter' debunked. Without going into the fact Gengar has only achieved forcing Kanga out anyway.
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Most Mega-Khan run Crunch to hit Ghosts on the switch. That's a definite OHKO, so Gengar can't even get in safely. Not only that, but it can't just set up Subs even when it does get in, since Crunch will break them. Sub-Gengar only works against Mega-Khan with EQ, since only Sucker Punch can actually hit Gengar once Khan has turned Mega.
 
You can play Jirachi with this set:
Kangaskhan @ Kangashanite
Trait: Scrappy
EVs: 16 HP / 252 Atk / 240 Spd
- Bite / Stomp
- PuP / Drain Punch
- Body Slam
- Fire Punch / EQ
Basically taking advantage of PB to paraflinch the opponent. With some added bulk and recovery via Drain Punch, this thing can actually do some work. (although it's not making full use or MKang's potential)
 
Yeah, I'm not even sure why people are bringing up Mega Pinsir. It's good, but nowhere near as good as Mega Mom. Bug/Flying is a really horrible defensive typing.

As for Mega Mom, we'll miss you. Have fun slugging it out with Arceus.
 
I brought up M-Pinsir because someone was saying "taking up a slot" and I only mentioned it as one of the two next best Megas after M-Khan is gone.
 
Mega Kangaskhan is pretty clearly an Uber. I know most of what I just posted has been said before, but it's still nice to write it down. The only really good check to Mega Kangaskhan is playing incredibly carefully around it and building a team where the majority of its members can either prevent it from sweeping or outright KO it. Now let's ban this thing so that we can get rid of Mega Lucario please. :toast:
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Exactly what I'm talking about.

The people who have been wiped by Mega-Khans because they decided to stuff their team with Sticky Web Galvantulas, Stealth Rock tyranitars, Smeargles, an Excadrill and (Insert 4 other hard hitting low speed or hard hitting low defense pokemon), who did not prepare for one of the most common threats in the game are the ones who are like OMG quickban, it forces me to NOT use all of my favorite pokemon that I owned with in gen 5.

Kind of sad to be honest. Like I said... might as well just ban all the megas already and get it over with. Smogon used to make things fair. Not boring.

Just get rid of all the things you think are OP, so we can go back to EVERY single team packing the same Excadrill/Tyranitar/Talonflame/Goodra/Terrakion/whatever whatever that people want to use in Pokebank.
BORING. I like a challenge. You guys seem to like repetition. You like knowing the exact pokemon that the other team has because you can use the exact same moves you used last time to win.

I'd rather fight a Mega Kanga any day vs your standard cookie cutter team.

Naturally Mega Kanga is going to be banned. Everyone knows this. I just hope you guys don't mind losing a bunch of members, and or fighting the same players over an over again due to the lack of variety you will have when the megas are gone.

Don't call the tiers Pokebank OU, don't call them OUbeta.

Just call it "Gen5 OU Enhanced". Without Mega-Evos, it's not a new game.
 
Mortrialus said:
None of the Megas are in the same league as Megaskhan. None of them. The only ones that might be problematic once Megaskhan stops eclipsing them are Mega-Lucario and Mega-Pinsir. Even then, it just doesn't compare. All of the other Megas have multiple easily exploited weaknesses. Lucario and Mawile are susceptible to the omnipresent Earthquake. Mega Lucario is also fairly fragile. Mega-Pinsir is incredible powerful offensively, but has one of the worst defensive type combinations in the game with a 4X Weakness to rock and 2X weaknesses to Ice, Lightning, Fire, and Flying. Seriously, the idea that every Mega Evolution is going to eventually get banned is a joke. Mega-Gengar and Megaskhan simply stand head and shoulders above all the rest.



This made me laugh way harder than it should have. It's true though.
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Thank you, I was being facetious though. I haven't heavily used any of the overpowered offensive Megas though, although I did test an all-out attacker (no Rapid Spin) Mega Blastoise (at least it could tank Talonflame's attacks and KO back with Water Pulse which is arguably more reliable than Stone Miss) but I found it is weak to Rotom-W and its Dark Pulse only did about 33% on the specially defensive version.

For Pinsir. A defensive counter would need to resist both Flying and Ground (and some sets use Close Combat) moves. This eliminates most slower grounded Electric, Steel, and Rock types, and since Bug and Grass confer resistance to Ground but also negates an immunity to Flying then they can be OHKO by a + 1 Aerilate Return which can be Swords Dance reduced by Intimidate or attained via Moxie. It would seem that for grounded Pokemon neutral to its STAB and coverage moves and pure defensive bulk is necessary to withstand it. One can run things like Defensive Zapdos, Skarmory, or Rotom-W as slower counters.

Here's a Calc on a bulky Landorus-T:

+1 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 168 HP / 252 Def Landorus-T: 313-370 (86.7 - 102.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

And Max Physically Defensive Ferrothorn can evade a KO from a neutral STAB flying attack when it is +2 if there are no Spikes or Stealth Rock:

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 295-348 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery.
+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 295-348 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

And for Bulky Offensive Zygarde (Max HP Evs on base 108 and 122 base def)

+2 252 Atk Aerilate Mega Pinsir Return vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Zygarde: 420-495 (100 - 117.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Its initial 85 base speed is a debilitating when it comes in but it has Quick Attack to remedy it. It is weak on the special side though.

A strong STAB attack from a faster Pokemon can kill even the defensive variants though.

252 SpA Thundurus Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 326-386 (97.6 - 115.5%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO

although coverage moves are unreliable and need boosting items even when Rocks are up:

252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 188-222 (56.2 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Manaphy Ice Beam vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mega Pinsir: 188-222 (69.3 - 81.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


(Manaphy, a base 100, has to run positive nature speed in order to land this hit during the turn of Mega Evolution although it can be killed by Quick Attack if its HP is low enough, and that might even trigger a free Moxie boost)

the physical side is much harder:

252 Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 148-174 (54.6 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 390-462 (143.9 - 170.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Strong priority from power Pokemon with a boosting item.

252 Atk Mamoswine Icicle Crash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mega Pinsir: 236-282 (87 - 104%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

A neutral nature with no boosting item fails to guarantee a KO with no Rocks, and unlike the special example a positive nature or boosting item is required. So I am surprised no one is using Substitute on this as a countermeasure against those who may try to burn or paralyze it while it is setting up.

----

Well, due to Talonflame, Weakness Policy Dragonite, the Mega Charizards, and Mega-Pinsir, perhaps Gen 6 would be known for the Rock Wars instead of the Weather Wars.
 
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KaminaSan said:
Exactly what I'm talking about.

The people who have been wiped by Mega-Khans because they decided to stuff their team with Sticky Web Galvantulas, Stealth Rock tyranitars, Smeargles, an Excadrill and (Insert 4 other hard hitting low speed or hard hitting low defense pokemon), who did not prepare for one of the most common threats in the game are the ones who are like OMG quickban, it forces me to NOT use all of my favorite pokemon that I owned with in gen 5.

Kind of sad to be honest. Like I said... might as well just ban all the megas already and get it over with. Smogon used to make things fair. Not boring.

Just get rid of all the things you think are OP, so we can go back to EVERY single team packing the same Excadrill/Tyranitar/Talonflame/Goodra/Terrakion/whatever whatever that people want to use in Pokebank.
BORING. I like a challenge. You guys seem to like repetition. You like knowing the exact pokemon that the other team has because you can use the exact same moves you used last time to win.

I'd rather fight a Mega Kanga any day vs your standard cookie cutter team.

Naturally Mega Kanga is going to be banned. Everyone knows this. I just hope you guys don't mind losing a bunch of members, and or fighting the same players over an over again due to the lack of variety you will have when the megas are gone.

Don't call the tiers Pokebank OU, don't call them OUbeta.

Just call it "Gen5 OU Enhanced". Without Mega-Evos, it's not a new game.
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If Smogon loses a bunch of members because they can't use a single overpowered centralizing pokemon that forces people to use gimmicks/centralizing things/sacrifices. Then nothing of value was lost.
 
KaminaSan said:
Exactly what I'm talking about.

The people who have been wiped by Mega-Khans because they decided to stuff their team with Sticky Web Galvantulas, Stealth Rock tyranitars, Smeargles, an Excadrill and (Insert 4 other hard hitting low speed or hard hitting low defense pokemon), who did not prepare for one of the most common threats in the game are the ones who are like OMG quickban, it forces me to NOT use all of my favorite pokemon that I owned with in gen 5.

Kind of sad to be honest. Like I said... might as well just ban all the megas already and get it over with. Smogon used to make things fair. Not boring.

Just get rid of all the things you think are OP, so we can go back to EVERY single team packing the same Excadrill/Tyranitar/Talonflame/Goodra/Terrakion/whatever whatever that people want to use in Pokebank.
BORING. I like a challenge. You guys seem to like repetition. You like knowing the exact pokemon that the other team has because you can use the exact same moves you used last time to win.

I'd rather fight a Mega Kanga any day vs your standard cookie cutter team.

Naturally Mega Kanga is going to be banned. Everyone knows this. I just hope you guys don't mind losing a bunch of members, and or fighting the same players over an over again due to the lack of variety you will have when the megas are gone.

Don't call the tiers Pokebank OU, don't call them OUbeta.

Just call it "Gen5 OU Enhanced". Without Mega-Evos, it's not a new game.
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So do you prefer a cookie cutter OU with Tyranitar/Excadrill/Talonflame/whatevercrap, or a cookie cutter OU with MegaKhan/MKcounter1/MKcounter2/MKcounter-counter/weird/crap?

Gee, don't try to solve a problem with another problem. You don't use poison to cure poison!
 
KztxL7 said:
If Smogon loses a bunch of members because they can't use a single centralizing pokemon that forces people to use gimmicks/centralizing things/sacrifices. Then nothing of value was lost.
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Agreed. The less we have to ban the better, but when things like Mega Kanga are let loose it's either use the pokemon or build a team to beat it(and it alone), no alternative.
 
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