Kangaskhanite Tiering Discussion [+Demographics Poll Added to OP]

[Orga777]

Well unfortunately, that's what it's like for me at least.

Vaporeon is usually crying and saying "B-But I can provide wish support!"

However, I just keep silent and pat his head.

I do know how you feel, and I just really started competitive playing rather recently. I thought that this new gen made everything so much less time consuming on breeding and building better pokemon that I actively started doing it a lot more frequently. However, I also run into M-Kanga and have to waste so many pokemon just to try and kill the thing. It doesn't help that I can't switch in anything and have to just let a perfectly good pokemon that would be helpful against the rest of the team die just because M-Kang showed up on the field.

 

[Calm_Mind_Latias]

If ANYTHING past Mega-Pinsir is even THOUGHT of for a ban, I think I would laugh. M-Mawile, while powerful is really predictable and HAS to rely on Sucker Punch due to atrocious speed. I don't know about Lucario or Pinsir, but both of these guys have a lot more weaknesses that can be exploited and have defense issues. It just seems easier to deal with competitively than M-Kanga. At least right now.

On a more serious note, maybe I would adapt if those Pokemon became more prevalent though.

 

[Numera]

I personally believe it to be unwise to come to a conclusion until Pokebank comes out simply because there are Pokemon that will trouble Mega Kangaskhan that are not available yet, namely Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Keldeo.

Mega Kangaskan dares not challenge Terrakion head on once its in; I really think that it'll have a hard time surviving a LO or CB boosted Close Combat while being outran. The only thing it can do once Terrakion is in is Sucker Punch, which would give it +2 attack and put your team at serious risk of being swept.

Keldeo is in a similar boat, of course not getting +2 to its main attacking moves, but still threatening Kangaskan with a powerful Secret Sword. We've seen how hard Specs Keldeo hits; easily OHKOing naturally bulky Pokemon such as Black Kyurem who sports better bulk than Mega Kangaskhan.

In present play faster and Prankster Pokemon carrying Will-O-Wisp are, in my experience, proving to be a serious pain the tail for Mega Kangaskhan with Prankster Sableye, Gengar, and Delphox being examples. Gengar gets the most credit here, as he is immune to Mega Kangaskhan's Earthquake, Return, Double-Edge, and Power-Up Punch making his only real vulnerability to Sucker Punch(or the rare Crunch, but I believe Sucker Punch to be the superior option so as to not be complete prey to Choice Scarf users) which basically guarantees him to be a safe switch in. I have seen very few Gengars running Will-O-Wisp since he gained access to it, but I have always believed it to be a very solid option for him. One can argue that it is only one Pokemon that has a safe switch in to Kangaskhan, but Gengar is and always has been used by loads of people from the days of R/B/Y and he can fit on to basically any team effectively especially now that he has access to Dazzling Gleam to give him a reliable option over HP Ice to deal with Dragon types, he has gained even more versatility and unpredictability

Although one issue I foresee is that Pokebank will allow Mega Kangaskhan access to Seismic Toss, previously only available from FR/LG tutors. This would allow an EV spread of nothing but bulk and allow him to still fire off a Seismic toss for 200 damage, guaranteeing 2HKOes on the vast majority of the tier with only the beefiest Pokemon surviving with Black Kyurem with some HP investment being a notable example that would survive. Other notable moves that it will gain access to being Aqua Tail, elemental punches, Drain Punch, and Low Kick.

In the end, my take on the matter is to wait until extensive testing in Pokebank OU has been conducted though I personally believe him to be completely manageable due to his low speed tier and having to rely on Sucker Punch for a priority move when there are faster users of Will-O-Wisp running around, as well as Prankster users.

I realize that probably most, if not all, of what I have said has been discussed/posted already, but I merely wanted to give my analysis to it :)

Keldeo and terrrakion Scare out mega kang, but Not counters as they cannot safely switch in.

Mega kang is ruining and over centralizing the meta and needs banning fast. We can't wait.

 

[JacobMesecar]

You did say it was a "contender" actually And asked for EQ that hurt it. I provided the second know and proved Aegi is no counter

It's clear that the pro ban issue has already won. Mega kang should, and will, be banned.

Also, no kidding. Do you know what a contender is? It's not a check or counter. It's a contender, meaning the match could go either way when pinned just against him.

I asked for weaker than Khan EQs, also. Idk about you, but I know that Diggersby has a much stronger EQ than Khan-M. So that's not even what I asked for.

Also, if you really are paying attention to my posts, I said that it should be a greater decision after Poke Bank. For right now, that means "Hell yeah ban him.". I don't know if for sure he will take down 90% of the meta when all pokemon are put into consideration. Probably will still take down a lot of it, but that's just what my opinion is. And if you ask me, I think it's worth the 15 day wait lol. It's no big deal and doesn't need to be dealt with immediately.

 

[Shroomisaur]

if mega garchomp isn't banned you could always Dragon tale with him, assuming he survives a sucker punch

Mega Garchomp used Dragon Tale!
"Gather 'round, everyone. It's time to tell the story of how us Dragon-types came to be. You see it all started back when Dratini..."
Mega Kangaskahn fell asleep!

Oh, on a serious note, why would Megakahn use Sucker Punch against something slow like Mega Garchomp? It would just pulverize it with Return.

Also something to add here is that Sableye can no longer reliably counter Kangaskahn even with Will-O-Wisp, thanks to Facade's new mechanics.

Yep. The most reliable answer to Kangaskahn is now not-so-reliable at all!

 

[EJ190]

I feel like megakhan wouldn't be so bad if it didn't have powerup punch. But it does and that completely breaks her. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Numera]

Also, no kidding. Do you know what a contender is? It's not a check or counter. It's a contender, meaning the match could go either way when pinned just against him.

I asked for weaker than Khan EQs, also. Idk about you, but I know that Diggersby has a much stronger EQ than Khan-M. So that's not even what I asked for.

Also, if you really are paying attention to my posts, I said that it should be a greater decision after Poke Bank. For right now, that means "Hell yeah ban him.". I don't know if for sure he will take down 90% of the meta when all pokemon are put into consideration. Probably will still take down a lot of it, but that's just what my opinion is. And if you ask me, I think it's worth the 15 day wait lol. It's no big deal and doesn't need to be dealt with immediately.

Of course it needs t be banned immediately. It's OP as crazy, 2HKO nearly every wall. It also over centralizes OU. It's ridiculous, it's OP , And this thread should have been closed with an outcome HOURS AGO .

 

[Mortrialus]

I am going to be a concern troll and sound cliche:

But what if someone argues:

First they came for Mega-Gengar, then they came for Mega-Kangaskhan Mega-Lucario, then Mega-Pinsir, Mega-Mawile, and Mega-Medicam but when they came from Mega-Blastoise no one spoke up.

I do not even know why I am reading this thread... it is going to be banned.

None of the Megas are in the same league as Megaskhan. None of them. The only ones that might be problematic once Megaskhan stops eclipsing them are Mega-Lucario and Mega-Pinsir. Even then, it just doesn't compare. All of the other Megas have multiple easily exploited weaknesses. Lucario and Mawile are susceptible to the omnipresent Earthquake. Mega Lucario is also fairly fragile. Mega-Pinsir is incredible powerful offensively, but has one of the worst defensive type combinations in the game with a 4X Weakness to rock and 2X weaknesses to Ice, Lightning, Fire, and Flying. Seriously, the idea that every Mega Evolution is going to eventually get banned is a joke. Mega-Gengar and Megaskhan simply stand head and shoulders above all the rest.

Ugh, choosing a poke to send in against Khan is like...is like...
choosing which of your kids to push in front of a train while they're all staring at you with a

face and saying "We love you no matter what you do."

This made me laugh way harder than it should have. It's true though.

 

[Orga777]

Also, no kidding. Do you know what a contender is? It's not a check or counter. It's a contender, meaning the match could go either way when pinned just against him.

I asked for weaker than Khan EQs, also. Idk about you, but I know that Diggersby has a much stronger EQ than Khan-M. So that's not even what I asked for.

Also, if you really are paying attention to my posts, I said that it should be a greater decision after Poke Bank. For right now, that means "Hell yeah ban him.". I don't know if for sure he will take down 90% of the meta when all pokemon are put into consideration. Probably will still take down a lot of it, but that's just what my opinion is. And if you ask me, I think it's worth the 15 day wait lol. It's no big deal and doesn't need to be dealt with immediately.

Except all the decent "counters" can't switch in ever. Meaning they can only come in after something dies, resulting in a laughing Kanga who runs back to the pokeball for something that can easily check any of these potential... issues. Once they are dealt with, Kanga roams free forever. Almost every possible usable OU pokemon has been mentioned by this point, and none of them are reliable enough to do much of anything, and once they are dead it is over for the rest of the team (unless you are running a team of all M-kang checks and in that case... lol...) That is something that Uber pokemon do. Blaziken has checks, too. So does M-Gar. They don't deserve a place in OU, and neither does M-Kanga.

 

[Chou Toshio]

My apologies to all those with an 1800 - 1899 ranking who took the survey. Dragontamer pointed out to me that I hard forgotten to include that option; it has been added now.

 

[JacobMesecar]

Of course it needs t be banned immediately. It's OP as crazy, 2HKO nearly every wall. It also over centralizes OU. It's ridiculous, it's OP , And this thread should have been closed with an outcome HOURS AGO .

OP or not, 15 days is short enough to say the least. Not everyone uses him and honestly you can deal with him until that final day comes. Two weeks is nothing lol.

 

[Psyco_Josho]

I feel like megakhan wouldn't be so bad if it didn't have powerup punch. But it does and that completely breaks her. Just my 2 cents.

PuP is a part of the games now. It can't be taken out. Her ability in tandem with this attack is not the sole contributor to her brokenness (from what I can tell), but it is a large contributor.

 

[G-Beast]

Idk, I feel like Gengar is a 100% safe switch in to Mega Kangaskhan unless it is crack headed enough to run Crunch, otherwise it can't do anything to a switching in Gengar and Will-O-Wisp will laugh at Sucker Punch as Kanga becomes crippled for the rest of the match. Not to mention he can also put him to sleep if he wants, he can set up Substitute for free as well!

 

[Jaded_Hades]

I feel like megakhan wouldn't be so bad if it didn't have powerup punch. But it does and that completely breaks her. Just my 2 cents.

It's really that, plus sucker punch. Nothing else, really. Otherwise you could phase it easily or just plain counter it. It doesn't get SD, or Bulk Up, so...

 

[TM13IceBeam]

But the best (arguably the best) Kanga set does run crunch o.O

 

[trickmasterj]

Idk, I feel like Gengar is a 100% safe switch in to Mega Kangaskhan unless it is crack headed enough to run Crunch, otherwise it can't do anything to a switching in Gengar and Will-O-Wisp will laugh at Sucker Punch as Kanga becomes crippled for the rest of the match. Not to mention he can also put him to sleep if he wants, he can set up Substitute for free as well!

unless facade

excluding while against Gengar, and there's always the chance that he goes for the crunch

 

[jvl101993]

I personally believe it to be unwise to come to a conclusion until Pokebank comes out simply because there are Pokemon that will trouble Mega Kangaskhan that are not available yet, namely Terrakion, Landorus-T, and Keldeo.

Mega Kangaskan dares not challenge Terrakion head on once its in; I really think that it'll have a hard time surviving a LO or CB boosted Close Combat while being outran. The only thing it can do once Terrakion is in is Sucker Punch, which would give it +2 attack and put your team at serious risk of being swept.

Keldeo is in a similar boat, of course not getting +2 to its main attacking moves, but still threatening Kangaskan with a powerful Secret Sword. We've seen how hard Specs Keldeo hits; easily OHKOing naturally bulky Pokemon such as Black Kyurem who sports better bulk than Mega Kangaskhan.

In present play faster and Prankster Pokemon carrying Will-O-Wisp are, in my experience, proving to be a serious pain the tail for Mega Kangaskhan with Prankster Sableye, Gengar, and Delphox being examples. Gengar gets the most credit here, as he is immune to Mega Kangaskhan's Earthquake, Return, Double-Edge, and Power-Up Punch making his only real vulnerability to Sucker Punch(or the rare Crunch, but I believe Sucker Punch to be the superior option so as to not be complete prey to Choice Scarf users) which basically guarantees him to be a safe switch in. I have seen very few Gengars running Will-O-Wisp since he gained access to it, but I have always believed it to be a very solid option for him. One can argue that it is only one Pokemon that has a safe switch in to Kangaskhan, but Gengar is and always has been used by loads of people from the days of R/B/Y and he can fit on to basically any team effectively especially now that he has access to Dazzling Gleam to give him a reliable option over HP Ice to deal with Dragon types, he has gained even more versatility and unpredictability

Although one issue I foresee is that Pokebank will allow Mega Kangaskhan access to Seismic Toss, previously only available from FR/LG tutors. This would allow an EV spread of nothing but bulk and allow him to still fire off a Seismic toss for 200 damage, guaranteeing 2HKOes on the vast majority of the tier with only the beefiest Pokemon surviving with Black Kyurem with some HP investment being a notable example that would survive. Other notable moves that it will gain access to being Aqua Tail, elemental punches, Drain Punch, and Low Kick.

In the end, my take on the matter is to wait until extensive testing in Pokebank OU has been conducted though I personally believe him to be completely manageable due to his low speed tier and having to rely on Sucker Punch for a priority move when there are faster users of Will-O-Wisp running around, as well as Prankster users.

I realize that probably most, if not all, of what I have said has been discussed/posted already, but I merely wanted to give my analysis to it :)

252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 348-411 (107.7 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 267-315 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 148-175 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Remember, this is Jolly Mega-Khan with no boosts. Landorus-T is slower than Mega-Khan, so you can't switch in on Return. If Mega-Khan is +2 when you switch in Landorus-T, that's another issue.

+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 333-393 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

You need the absolute minimum damage roll on Return to avoid the OHKO if SR is up. And then, it can just Sucker Punch.

Keldeo can't switch in on Return: even +0 Sucker Punch will pick it off.

Terrakion is trashed by EQ.

Oh, and Crunch is not "rare". It's actually the most common and recommended 4th move. You pick what you want to take out. If you forgo EQ for Crunch, then yes. Terrakion does force you out. But if it runs EQ, none of the Pokemon you mentioned really trouble it, since they can't freely switch in.

 

[Orga777]

Idk, I feel like Gengar is a 100% safe switch in to Mega Kangaskhan unless it is crack headed enough to run Crunch, otherwise it can't do anything to a switching in Gengar and Will-O-Wisp will laugh at Sucker Punch as Kanga becomes crippled for the rest of the match

Most builds I have seen run Sucker Punch/Return/PuP/Crunch. Why WOULDN'T it run Crunch since the only thing that it can't hit is ghosts? You have the rest of the team handle the pokemon weak to EQ and the like. Or, if you are really daring, just set up a Tailwind with Talonflame, or send out a Sticky Web, and drop Sucker Punch for EQ or Fire Punch.

 

[Numera]

OP or not, 15 days is short enough to say the least. Not everyone uses him and honestly you can deal with him until that final day comes. Two weeks is nothing lol.

It will be Christmas then. When a pokemon ifs OP , two weeks Is way to long to wait.. ITT Will continue to ruin the ladder allowing noobs using it to over centralize OU.. It's ridiculous. We know it'll be OP even after Pokebank as we have a ladder for it already, so it should be banned right now.

 

[G-Beast]

252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Terrakion: 348-411 (107.7 - 127.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Keldeo: 267-315 (82.6 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 148-175 (38.8 - 45.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Remember, this is Jolly Mega-Khan with no boosts. Landorus-T is slower than Mega-Khan, so you can't switch in on Return. If Mega-Khan is +2 when you switch in Landorus-T, that's another issue.

+1 252 Atk Parental Bond Mega Kangaskhan Return vs. 248 HP / 172 Def Landorus-T: 333-393 (87.4 - 103.1%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

You need the absolute minimum damage roll on Return to avoid the OHKO if SR is up. And then, it can just Sucker Punch.

Keldeo can't switch in on Return: even +0 Sucker Punch will pick it off.

Terrakion is trashed by EQ.

I have not once said that they were counters, I merely said they will trouble him because once they are in SAFELY Kangaskhan will be running for the hills, if you have entry hazards up it will eventually wittle him down to the point that a faster priority user(like say Mach Punch Infernape) will be able to easily revenge kill Kanga.

 

[RowDog]

There are so many reasons why Mega-Kang is broken and I don't plan on going over all of them. But IMO the thing which pushes it past the breaking point is its bulk. It has the ability to OHKO so much but fails to get 2HKOed by a lot of Pokemon which Mega-Khan will ultimately destroy. And it makes the PuP setup just such a breeze, and the rest is even easier.

And what does everyone have against Crunch which makes it "so rare"? I have seen a few Mega-Khan's run it. My Mega-Khan runs Sucker Punch/Return/PuP/Crunch and destroys all WoW ghosts. IMO it is one of the best ways to go with it, then you only run the problem of Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn and to a lesser extent Garchomp.

Mega Garchomp used Dragon Tale!

Also something to add here is that Sableye can no longer reliably counter Kangaskahn even with Will-O-Wisp, thanks to Facade's new mechanics.

Yep. The most reliable answer to Kangaskahn is now not-so-reliable at all!

You do realise that Sableye is still immune to Facade and can then just stall out with priority Recover?

My apologies to all those with an 1800 - 1899 ranking who took the survey. Dragontamer pointed out to me that I hard forgotten to include that option; it has been added now.

Dammit 5 minutes too late. I had to say I was in the 1700s :'(

 

[LordRandomness]

It will be Christmas then. When a pokemon ifs OP , two weeks Is way to long to wait.. ITT Will continue to ruin the ladder allowing noobs using it to over centralize OU.. It's ridiculous. We know it'll be OP even after Pokebank as we have a ladder for it already, so it should be banned right now.

Not to mention that it'll prevent the metagame from developing and make it harder to shift away from the centralization later...

 

[Numera]

There are so many reasons why Mega-Kang is broken and I don't plan on going over all of them. But IMO the thing which pushes it past the breaking point is its bulk. It has the ability to OHKO so much but fails to get 2HKOed by a lot of Pokemon which Mega-Khan will ultimately destroy. And it makes the PuP setup just such a breeze, and the rest is even easier.

And what does everyone have against Crunch which makes it "so rare"? I have seen a few Mega-Khan's run it. My Mega-Khan runs Sucker Punch/Return/PuP/Crunch and destroys all WoW ghosts. IMO it is one of the best ways to go with it, then you only run the problem of Rocky Helmet Ferrothorn and to a lesser extent Garchomp.


You do realise that Sableye is still immune to Facade and can then just stall out with priority Recover?


Dammit 5 minutes too late. I had to say I was in the 1700s :'(

Scrappy on normal kang... then you just mega evolve later.

 

[farranpoison]

You do realise that Sableye is still immune to Facade and can then just stall out with priority Recover?

If you read the post correctly, you'll realize that the Facade damage calc was with a +1 Regular Kangaskhan Scrappy facade. It's a guaranteed OHKO after PUP damage.

Yeah.

 

[Shroomisaur]

You do realise that Sableye is still immune to Facade and can then just stall out with priority Recover?

Did you even read my post? Kangaskahn can KO Sableye with Scrappy PuP+Facade, without needing to Mega Evolve at all. Then after your supposed Ghost-type check is out of the way you can Mega Evolve.

EDIT: Double-Greninja'd. I have friends to fight my battles for me now, I see! o.o