Item Assault Vest

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AV Conk is indeed good but I can't see myself ever foregoing Guts. People seem to think Iron Fist is default or something because they consistently try to Burn me.

Without Leftovers I would recommend taking a lot of those HP EVs and moving them into SpD and some into Df too. You'll take less passive damage from rocks, sand and burn and you'll be able to take attacks themselves much better. Conk has a great HP stat as it is.

I've been trying AV Tornadus-T. It's natural speed is very useful, but man I don't recommend AV on mon with Stealth Rock weakness even with a spinner because it's a hassle. Also I am sick of how often Heat Wave misses costing me games, it seems to miss more than Hurricane! Also paralysis is the death of it.
 
I've used AV Conk before and I fucking LOVED it. I say guts is the better ability because status is fucking EVERYWHERE. Seriously, not a match went by where that thing wasn't burned!
 
Machamp said:
Any ideas for cart Conkeldurr? Where tutor moves for Ice Punch/Knock Off are not available.
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To be honest, the best idea is to just wait for fifteen days. But otherwise, pretty sure Conk still gets Payback, Stone Edge and Earthquake, all of which are pretty inferior options that will be outclassed within fifteen days.
 
Before you call me crazy and laugh at me, I'd like to bring up a Pokemon I like to use with Assault Vest! That Pokemon is...
JOLTEON!
Seriously! Jolteon has the exact same Special Defense as Vaporeon, but with a high speed and attack, versus HP and SpA. Jolteon has Charge Beam, to be able to tank/boost which I feel is important. I mean, no one ever expects or uses a wall Jolteon, but Electric is a very solid Defensive typing, just Earthquake is a problem.

Jolteon @ Assault Vest
Ability: Volt Absorb
EVs: 164 Spd / 136 HP / 208 SDef
Timid Nature
- Charge Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ice]
- Shadow Ball
With these EVs and Assault Vest, it hits a SpD of 417, which is essentially a stat of 140 (if I did the math correctly)! This is actually a pretty formidable tank! Charge Beam bolsters up Jolteon's Special Attack, it does hit hard after a few boosts. The HP [Ice] is for BoltBeam, with Shadow Ball hitting Magnezone. To prove how bulky it is, here are some calcs:
It avoids the 2HKO from Greninja:
252 SpA Life Orb Greninja Hydro Pump vs. 136 HP / 208 SpD Assault Vest Jolteon: 113-134 (37 - 43.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
it survives this:
252+ SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 136 HP / 208 SpD Assault Vest Jolteon in Sun: 195-231 (63.9 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
heck, it might even survive this:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Deoxys-A Psycho Boost vs. 136 HP / 208 SpD Assault Vest Jolteon: 273-322 (89.5 - 105.5%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
it survives this:
252+ SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Nidoking Earth Power vs. 136 HP / 208 SpD Assault Vest Jolteon: 234-276 (76.7 - 90.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
it even survives this:
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kyurem-W Draco Meteor vs. 136 HP / 208 SpD Assault Vest Jolteon: 243-286 (79.6 - 93.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Yeah, this is kind of a crazy gimmick, but it has its uses. It has issues, lack of Physical Defense, no Recovery (outside of Volt Absorb), and it isn't the most powerful of attackers, but it still works!
 
lmitchell0012 said:
Someone at gamefreak clearly hates stall. We FINALLY get an item that is decent on tanks and we can't even use status moves with it?? And yet gamefreak creates all these absurdly powerful megas for super offense. Offense and stall should BOTH be viable.

This is all hypothetical, but if we could use status moves with this item, who would be the most OP in your opinion? Also, if status was usable with this it could easily be countered with moves like knock off, taunt, and many other things. We also have cleric pokemon (heal bell) who could easily eliminate status. No, this item definitely wouldn't have been broken with status. I wish Gamefreak would think more about what's healthy for competetive Pokemon instead of just their personal opinions.

Sorry for the rant. Just a bit irritated.
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GameFreak wanted to recover from the 200+ turn average battles of GSC. Or the haxy stallwars of RBY.

They also didn't want to make a defensive Choice Specs, but without any move restrictions. It really makes sense--AV with status moves is the perfect way to kill all special offense. Think: AV Blissey able to use status moves.

Of course, some mons would prefer Leftovers nonetheless. Either they can't take special hits anyways (Avalugg), have such outrageous Special Defense that it doesn't need the AV boost at all (Blissey, and to a lesser extent stuff like Florges), or have no reliable recovery or can use Eviolite (Porygon2, Chansey, Dusclops, Goodra, Tyranitar).

AV is still a good option for stuff like Slowbro, Tangrowth, Heatran, Metagross, Tyranitar, Goodra, and several other mons regardless. Although some would like another item, AV is still a viable choice.
 
I have been testing AV metagross and its pretty good. (well good for gross who imo hasn't been great since 4th gen)
metagross
item: av
nature: adamant
Ability: clear body
ev's: 252 hp, 252 attack, 4 spc def

Zen headbutt
bullet punch
earth quake
meteor mash
 
Assault Vest has been one of my favorite items this Gen due to how useful its made or made one of my favorite even better: Rhyperior.


Assault Sergeant
Item: Assault Vest
252 HP / 108 Atk / 148 SDef
Adamant Nature (+ Atk -SAtk)
Solid Rock
Avalanche
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Hammer Arm/ Fire Punch

While the moveset can be used for debate, how he performs in battle is admirable to say the least. He becomes a 3HKO from a Genesect Ice Beam and then if you decide to put him in sand like I do, even some of the strongest water types can't kill him as even Rotom-w can only muster a 2HKO for something that is usually thought to be an easy OHKO. Then how he can take Mega Venu's Giga Drain is even more amazing.

While I do like running Rhy as a physical behemoth, this has quickly become my favorite set for him with a doubt.
 
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Salemance said:
Assault Vest has been one of my favorite items this Gen due to how useful its made or made one of my favorite even better: Rhyperior.


Assault Sergeant
Item: Assault Vest
104 HP / 160 Atk / 244 Sp Def
Careful Nature (+Sp Def, -Sp Atk)
Solid Rock
Megahorn
Earthquake
Stone Edge
Hammer Arm/ Fire Punch

While the moveset can be used for debate, how he performs in battle is admirable to say the least. He becomes a 3HKO from a Genesect Ice Beam and then if you decide to put him in sand like I do, even some of the strongest water types can't kill him as even Rotom-w can only muster a 2HKO for something that is usually thought to be an easy OHKO. Then how he can take Mega Venu's Giga Drain is even more amazing.

While I do think his EVs should and probably will be better modified, I do think he has a great place or has found a very nice foothold to abuse.
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How has this set been working out for you? I EV'd mine to have 252 hp/252 sp.def so it can withstand more physical attacks. Imo i'd take Megahorn out as it doesnt hit anything notable and most Dark/Physic/Grass that are weak to it won't hurt you while you ohko back(except for maybe tangrowth).
 
It has been working extremely well for me. One of the best things about it is that most don't even see the possibility of him living a special attack so they try beating it that way. For the majority of the time, the ones who are left to fight it, are stuff like Latios, Genesect and their ilk, and while Megahorn seems to only be used against Latios sometimes, he has still been grabbing the OHKO. SituationL, yah, probably, but it helps.

EV placing has never really been my strongest apot as I was never much one to use the damage calculators much, but I can see your point for the health. Even better is he will usually be living lob enough to take out the attacker before they can hope to take him out so it may be better.

I will say it again, this set has usually never let me down and is always seeming to secure 1-2 KOs against the opponent as they usually are always struggling on how to stop it as their conventional means aren't working. He really is fun With that 515 or so special defense in sand and 343 outside it.
 
Salemance

Ahh I see. If you will, I would suggest to consider Avalanche as well, it makes him into a great dragon + kami slayer. Avalanche hits Lati@s as hard as Megahorn for SE as well if Rhyperior goes second, and he does most of the time anyways.
 
Salemance said:
It has been working extremely well for me. One of the best things about it is that most don't even see the possibility of him living a special attack so they try beating it that way. For the majority of the time, the ones who are left to fight it, are stuff like Latios, Genesect and their ilk, and while Megahorn seems to only be used against Latios sometimes, he has still been grabbing the OHKO. SituationL, yah, probably, but it helps.

EV placing has never really been my strongest apot as I was never much one to use the damage calculators much, but I can see your point for the health. Even better is he will usually be living lob enough to take out the attacker before they can hope to take him out so it may be better.

I will say it again, this set has usually never let me down and is always seeming to secure 1-2 KOs against the opponent as they usually are always struggling on how to stop it as their conventional means aren't working. He really is fun With that 515 or so special defense in sand and 343 outside it.
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You really want to go Adamant with Max attack. Max HP is a good idea but you can split HP with SpD a bit if you wish. You want the attack power though, you're not a wall, you just need enough to net KOs. I hope you use Sandstorm somewhere on your team to really really boost his SpD.
 
The general thought is that Assault Vest is a God tier item on bulky Fighting type pokemon such as Machamp and Conkeldurr correct?

I'm running an assault vest Machamp and its absolutely devastating.
 
FlyThai said:
The general thought is that Assault Vest is a God tier item on bulky Fighting type pokemon such as Machamp and Conkeldurr correct?

I'm running an assault vest Machamp and its absolutely devastating.
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Conk moreso than Machamp because Drain Punch makes substantial difference. It can work on Machamp but he is outclassed. I'm curious about Thick Fat Hariyama with this though. Has great HP and At after all.

EDIT: Taking a look Assault Vest Intimidate Hitmontop could be outright pro! Great mixed defenses, priority, and Rapid Spin support all in one. It gets Mach Punch which can be boosted with Technician as well as Pursuit/Sucker Punch. If you want a bulky spinner Hitmontop might be the way to go since it eats Fire and Water moves so much better than Excadrill.

I'm also looking around and some other possible candidates are Ursaring and Miltank. Ursaring is great because it gets Guts or Quick Feet which makes it a great status absorber and an amazing switch into Trevanant throwing burns out, which then gives to STAB Facade coming from 130 Atk. Ouch.

Miltank is kind of like Snorlax being a bulky Normal type, with Thick Fat even, only much better balanced stats. 95/105/70 with an Assault Vest is actually amazing defensive wise especially when you're immune to Ghost and can resist Fire and Ice. Alternatively you can also use Sap Sipper and switch into unsuspecting Ferrothorns trying to Leech Seed and get a nice attack boost. The real kicker is that it has a 100 Spd stat! That's damn good for a poke that bulky. She's going to need Power Up Punch to fix that sub-par 80 Atk stat, and she'll miss Milk Drink though.
 
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DaiGuren said:
Salemance

Ahh I see. If you will, I would suggest to consider Avalanche as well, it makes him into a great dragon + kami slayer. Avalanche hits Lati@s as hard as Megahorn for SE as well if Rhyperior goes second, and he does most of the time anyways.
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Thank you for that idea! That could be a far better solution than chancing a miss. I like that alot actually and thanks for the idea on hp as I forgot he would able to KO anything that would try to take him out anyway without investment.

and to Jaroda, I thought I said I ran him in sand. Well I do XD
And I am not running him for the attack. I was just foolishly putting attack in there cause I thought it would be needed as he can still get the necessary KOs with usually nothing and he is usually an excellent tank and that's how I've been running him.Are ya trying to say running a tank set with him isn't viable?
 
Salemance said:
Thank you for that idea! That could be a far better solution than chancing a miss. I like that alot actually and thanks for the idea on hp as I forgot he would able to KO anything that would try to take him out anyway without investment.

and to Jaroda, I thought I said I ran him in sand. Well I do XD
And I am not running him for the attack. I was just foolishly putting attack in there cause I thought it would be needed as he can still get the necessary KOs with usually nothing and he is usually an excellent tank and that's how I've been running him.Are ya trying to say running a tank set with him isn't viable?
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Tank: An often slower poke that is meant to take certain hits and kill in return with strong moves.
Wall: A poke meant to severely resist certain kinds of moves and often uses support moves that heal or cause status.

Rhyperior is a tank, not a wall, and if he wants to kill thinks you need Atk EVs. Adamant 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD is good enough giving you good mixed bulk and the attacking power you need to actually kill stuff. Without any means of recovery investing heavily into your defenses it wasteful. Feel free to move some from HP into SpD if you want.
 
Jaroda said:
Tank: An often slower poke that is meant to take certain hits and kill in return with strong moves.
Wall: A poke meant to severely resist certain kinds of moves and often uses support moves that heal or cause status.

Rhyperior is a tank, not a wall, and if he wants to kill thinks you need Atk EVs. Adamant 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD is good enough giving you good mixed bulk and the attacking power you need to actually kill stuff. Without any means of recovery investing heavily into your defenses it wasteful. Feel free to move some from HP into SpD if you want.
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Last I did the calculations he was doing fine taking some things out without any invstment in attack, or at least factoring rock damage in.

Would it not be ideal to EV him like you it has been suggested for another fellow Assault Vest user with a similar stat spread: Tangrowth?
 
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Salemance said:
Last I did the calculations he was doing fine taking some things out without any invstment in attack, or at least factoring rock damage in.

Would it not be ideal to EV him like you it has been suggested for another fellow Assault Vest user with a similar stat spread: Tangrowth?
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If you want a Rock type that can wall then choose Regirock. 80/200/100 Defenses are insanse, and pure Rock typing means no x4 weaknesses and he still gets SpD boosts from Sand. Regirock's durability puts Rhyperior's to shame, and it even gets Drain Punch. Use Rhyperior to actually attack, use Regirock if you want to stick around.
 
Jaroda

I will actually test that spread right after MegaKang gets banned. Maybe I'll do some calcs cause I thought about it, the point with Ass. Vest Rhyperior is, really, to not die quickly from a special hit. It's especially funny when MegaLuke's flash cannon/aura sphere only 2hkos you while you you ohko back with EQ
 
At the very least go Adamant so you get a higher stat total (Careful isn't getting you too much at BST what 65?). The way I see it you want to nail switch ins as hard as possible taking advantage of his huge power. Assault Vest keeps you alive against a few things for the crucial surprise KO, but he isn't meant to stick around all day even with max SpD. Assault Vest, Solid Rock and Sand help him enough to the point where you can afford more At.

Seriously though if you want a Rock type to stick around and aren't as worried about At power than use Regirock. His defenses put Rhyperior's to shame, especially with no 4x weakness, and Clear Body isn't too bad either for Intimidate users.
 
Jaroda said:
At the very least go Adamant so you get a higher stat total (Careful isn't getting you too much at BST what 65?). The way I see it you want to nail switch ins as hard as possible taking advantage of his huge power. Assault Vest keeps you alive against a few things for the crucial surprise KO, but he isn't meant to stick around all day even with max SpD. Assault Vest, Solid Rock and Sand help him enough to the point where you can afford more At.

Seriously though if you want a Rock type to stick around and aren't as worried about At power than use Regirock. His defenses put Rhyperior's to shame, especially with no 4x weakness, and Clear Body isn't too bad either for Intimidate users.
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Depends on what you use Rhyperior for. You have to remember that Solid Rock makes it so that Rhyperior can shrug away his Steel/Fighting/Ice/Ground weaknesses or at the very least, not worry about it as much as Regirock does.
 
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 240-283 (55.42 - 65.35%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 248 HP / 0+ Def Regirock: 218-257 (60.05 - 70.79%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Still a 2HKO either way, and that doesn't even factor healing from Drain Punch. Regirock also doesn't have an Ice weakness, or 4x weak to Water or Grass, which is still more than 2x with Solid Rock.

252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 0 SpD Regirock in sand: 174-206 (47.93 - 56.74%) -- 35.16% chance to 2HKO
252 SpA Keldeo Hydro Pump vs. +1 248 HP / 252+ SpD Solid Rock Rhyperior in sand: 270-318 (62.35 - 73.44%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

That's the difference even when Regirock has no SpD investment and can run Impish. If you're going to tank and hit hard, then take advantage of what Rhyperior has to offer rather than overcompensating for his SpD.
 
Its not so much the rock type in looking for, its Pokemon who basically can take a hit and can hit back, and that's what Rhyperior does. Regirock is a great user of Assault Vest, that I will not deny, but he isn't exactly the threatening power of Rhyperior.

He can KO so much without investment that it truly is ridiculous. He does alot well, and if you want to try over compensating, you could very well say that for Tangrowth as well. I am taking into account what he does well, that's why I even bothered to make a set like this as he has the now to abuse more than he ever could. If I wanted Regirock, I would have posted Regi set, but I decided to show a set that I thought would be. Seen as vaible and I've seen it easily be viable.
Can Rhy OHKO Exca with no investment? Yes. Can Regirock? No he needs a 2HKO, and tht ain't happening. So Rhy can still take a licking, take em out, and keep on kicking.


I can see why it all might not be needed, but you are ignoring the sp def stat all together
 
+2 252 Atk Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Solid Rock Rhyperior: 175-207 (40.3 - 47.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+2 252 Atk Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Regirock: 158-188 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- 9.4% chance to 2HKO

Like I said, depends on what you need. Rhyperior can take 2x SE physcial hits better than Regirock can. Though Drain Punch is admittedly nice and is something that Rhyperior can only dream of getting. But you are right in the sense that max SpD is not needed for Rhyperior.

At the very least, according to calcs,

+1 252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 148 SpD Assault Vest Solid Rock Rhyperior: 180-213 (41.4 - 49%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

that was my benchmark when trying to figure out what a good spread for Rhyperior would be. I'm not factoring sand cause I don't use it in my team. If you can suggest a better benchmark that would be great.
 
Regirock should always be Impish referring to your calcs, you nab an insane improvement in BST that way. And yeah, that isn't exactly a huge difference, hence why I'm saying to make the most of Rhyperior's advantage in its highly superior At stat. Seriously, 130 compared to 100 is no contest, and while Rhyperiors' 115/130/55 and Solid Rock gives it naturally good physical bulk, it is utterly eclipsed by 80/200/100 with better typing. Regirock has an extra 80 BST in defenses and they are better distributed too.

Well it sounds like we are all kind of in agreement. There is likely a sweet spot between SpD and At investment because I think we all agree maxing all or the other is not optimal. The right amount can mean you can turn 2HKOs into 3HKO with the right SpD investment and enough At to clinch 1 and 2HKOs in vital circumstances reducing the amount of times you need to get hit overall. *hand shake*

I think +1 Ice Beam is a pretty fair benchmark considering its popularity. How about a CharY Solarbeam?
 
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