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Other Viable Megas
- Thread starter thedotwalks
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Probably never, it lacks the speed that make Kangaskhan and Lucario so controversial and the Sucker Punch can be played around by burning it.
A flinch is much better than a special defense drop. A +2 dark pulse is going to 2HKO pretty much anything you use it against anyway. It's rare that the special defense drop is going to matter. However, a flinch prevents them from doing damage against you that turn, meaning its harder for the next mon to revenge kill you.
But it also let you being walled by every single Fairy, forcing you to run Flash Cannon instead of something better like Vacuum Wave.
You lose to almost every relevant fairy with shadow ball but no flash cannon. Even a resisted aura sphere does the same damage as a neutral shadow ball so there is absolutely no reason to take shadow ball over flash cannon to make use for Vacuum wave.
+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 111-131 (28.1 - 33.2%) -- 91.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 444-524 (112.6 - 132.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 97-115 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- 42.8% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 388-460 (107.7 - 127.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mega Lucario Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 221-260 (54.7 - 64.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Flash Cannon/ vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 442-520 (109.4 - 128.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
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There's been 5 banned? I thought there's only been three so far (Gengar, Kangaskhan, and Blaziken by proxy.)
Saying the pokemon is banned and the megastone isn't is stupid. You're dancing around technical wordplay, but you're still incorrect. If Blaziken(or any base form) is banned, by extension so is its Mega Evolution. Gengarite & Megakhanite are item bans specifically. Mewtwo was never in OU. So there are FIVE banned mega evolutions at this current time.
But really, if Mega Blaziken isn't banned, then how would I ever see it in OU if it's necessary base form is? Answer: You can't, therefore it is effectively banned. It's really that simple.
P.s. - Calling someone stupid and telling them what they said was are two entirely different things. Try to under that. And if you honestly think that Smogon would allow Mega Blaziken or Mewtwo in OU *ever*, then you shouldn't be posting.
But really, if Mega Blaziken isn't banned, then how would I ever see it in OU if it's necessary base form is? Answer: You can't, therefore it is effectively banned. It's really that simple.
P.s. - Calling someone stupid and telling them what they said was are two entirely different things. Try to under that. And if you honestly think that Smogon would allow Mega Blaziken or Mewtwo in OU *ever*, then you shouldn't be posting.
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If you look at the rules for the bans its different. kangaskhanite was recently banned from ou. While blaziken not blaikenite was banned from ou. so while its being technical what I said is not incorrect and rudely responding by calling something stupid is not productive for anyone involved.
TheDoctor1
he probably thinks its M-Mawile that will soon see the list.
but thats most likely never going to happen with mawiles speed the way it is.
he probably thinks its M-Mawile that will soon see the list.
but thats most likely never going to happen with mawiles speed the way it is.
He might think charizard x or mega pinsir, but those aren't powerful enough to be banned either.
A lot of people were throwing pinsir out there as well. Personally I think that we've already gone a little overboard with the bans (I was against the blaziken quick ban), but I was really just putting out a worst case scenario.
i thought it might of been pinsir, hes good but i am not sure if he is ban worthy. but only time will tell I guess
If they banned all Mega stones most players wouldn't give two shits.
At this stage, though, it doesn't look like any of the other stones are quite broken. Mega Pinsir isn't as fast as it wants to be, and even a +2 Aerilate Quick Attack isn't too good against certain opponents, failing to OHKO frail Pokemon like Jolteon, Heliolisk, or even Noivern (before SR). Not to mention that you can put a Scarf on something like Diggersby and it works just fine.
Mega Lucario is faster, and has two different sets with Adaptability backing them. It also has SD and NP, but the SD set's priority are either Bullet Punch and Extremespeed, which are weak even at +2, and the NP set has either Vacuum Wave (4MSS), or no priority, and Vacuum Wave doesn't hit hard at all.
A little overboard? Mega Genagr, Blazkin in general, and Mega Mom were broken as all fuck. Any other Mega (besides maybe Mega Cario) aren't ban worthy. Mega Pinsir isn't as fast as it wants to be, Mega Mawile is too slow and needs better SpDef., and anything else is balenced and function good in OU. Except for mega Bannete that thing has 1 use that it's not even good at due to prankster not working first turn you are mega'd. Any other mega is good. People are just overreacting to mega stones being banned. I would list why each mega that Isn't ban worthy isn't ban worthy if anyone asked.
Anybody who even pretends to play this game recognized how broken kangakhan was, and after listening to the discussion, I agree with the tiering council's decision to ban gengarite, but I did not agree with how quickly deoxys and regular blaziken were banned. If the goal was to prevent the meta game from developing incorrectly, then why have they waited so long with mega lucario who, has similar sweeping capabilities to blaziken, but better bulk, coverage, and access to priority? No it doesn't get the unbelievable speed, but there are plenty of other reasons it's on equal terms with blaziken, so I'm sure why one would get banned so easily and the other wouldn't.
TBH, I support at least a suspect for Mega Luke. Deoxys-do I even need to explain this? Literally no other pokemon barring Deo-A has a sum of the attacking stats (Atk, SpA and Spe) higher than this. It also has a absolutely ridiculously large offensive movepool that includes E-Speed. You are definitely right about Kanga. TBH, there is no way in hell Gengarite deserved to be banned before Kangaskhanite. Shadow Tag is literally the only reason it got banned. Now, I have left Blaziken to last. That thing is insanely broken-Speed Boost means you NEED priority to kill it, combined with Swords Dance? That thing can wreck physical walls. I'll admit that 80/70/70 defenses aren't very good, but you don't care about your defenses most of the time with 678 Attack and 564 Speed.
I made the Blaziken comparison to show why I'm against a Lucarionite quick ban, but also why I think it will happen. Lucario can beat most priority users and folks that outspeed it with its own priority, which is something Blaziken could never do. Also, when you factor in Adaptability, Mega Luke's offensive stats are comparable to Deoxys. Not quite as fast, but better typing and bulk. I really need to stop talking, because I've almost convinced myself that MegaLuke needs to go. Anyway, forum rules technically say we shouldn't talk about what "should" be banned, but a mega's viability is greatly influenced by if it gets banned so I think they'll allow posts like these, but we should avoid becoming redundant, or they'll have to start controlling this thread a bit more. I made my original statement (#820) to stop people from saying things like "viable mega = banned." All this arguing about technicalities and which ones could get banned takes away from the idea that if megas get banned, there will be a reason. I showed what I believed to be the worst case scenario, and not 1 person responded with something like "If that happened, that would be terrible and Smogon would be ruined!" In fact, a far number of people thought I was being overly harsh. Lets leave the main banning discussions to the moderators and focus on discussing how different megas are (or are not) viable in today's meta game.
Do you think it's possible that with certain tutor moves, some megas would be more effective?
I remember reading elsewhere on the forums, and I agree, that Mega Aggron would be awesome if it got slack off.
Although to be honest, this a shady street to stumble down, because the moves that become move tutor moves are hardly ever set in stone or follow a certain pattern so, this could probably degenerate into "if X mega had Y move, it'd be so much better!!"
I remember reading elsewhere on the forums, and I agree, that Mega Aggron would be awesome if it got slack off.
Although to be honest, this a shady street to stumble down, because the moves that become move tutor moves are hardly ever set in stone or follow a certain pattern so, this could probably degenerate into "if X mega had Y move, it'd be so much better!!"
Blazikin and Mega Cario aren't even comparable in sweeping power. Blazikin could
1. Instantly Outspeed everything relevant in 1 turn of set up, alongside a possible +2 to attack.
2. Due to aforementioned speed he is nearly impossible to revenge kill, while lucario is revenged killed by much
3. If it somehow ran into something it couldn't just utterly rape, it could BP its boosts to something else that would finish the sweep. (Ex. Garchomp, Rampardos(it can be really deadly with +4 to speed)).
4. It also doesn't have 4MSS
Mega Luke is like a flower compared to Stalin when comparing to Blazikin/Mega Blazikin.
And deoxys is just flat out more powerful than Mega Luke. Withhout the mega stone and the ability to hold items.
Mega Cario should just be suspected, no more, no less.
Since I've already kinda broken one forum rule, I won't directly answer your question (cuz that would break the "only discuss confirmed information" rule"). Instead, I'll say that since megas cannot run leftovers, many defensive megas aren't as effective as they would be if they were normal pokemon. Some defensive megas can overcome this (like venusaur with giga drain and synthesis) while others lose viability from lack of recovery (the two that come to mind are aggron and ampharos, but there's also several that would appreciate access to recovery)
I really don't want to argue with people, but I don't completely agree with some of those points
1. Base 112 speed outspeeds most relevant threats, and most of the rest fear priority moves it can use. It also has a much easier time getting that +2 up than Blaziken ever did
2. What exactly can revenge kill MegaLuke? The number of things that can survive +2 attacks and OHKO, or 2HKO while outspeeding him is very small. Much shorter than the list of priority users or sturdy pokes that can KO a wounded Blaziken (LO, Flare Blitz, HJK, that thing is almost never full health)
3. OK, you got me. Blaziken's BP set is definitely something it has over MegaLuke, but. . .
4. Lucario's ability to use a huge number of moves is an asset, not a hindrance. No, you can't fit everything you'd like onto it, but your opponent can't always guess what he's running (he has physical and special movepools to cover the entire metagame)
As much as I appreciate you mentioning my favorite evil dude (besides darth vader, but some people say he doesn't count), I don't find your comparison any more accurate than you found mine. And while when I look only at the metagame, I favor a suspect test over a quick ban, when I consider the precedents, a quick ban seems the more likely result. And since this thread only cares about what probably will happen rather than what should happen, I think any discussion of MegaLuke's viability should have the disclaimer that it will probably be banned sooner or later
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TBH, Mega Lucario doesn't have much trouble with getting outsped thanks to its one-of-the-most-trollest speed tier and the priorities.
The HUGE difference between him and Mega Blaziken is not the sweeping power per say.
The huge difference is that Lucario can't deal with his 4MSS while blaziken can just bp away from his counter/check.
That's the biggest difference. And it's a really really big difference. Mega Lucario needs to come in lategame and sweep while making sure his counters are gone. Regular/mega Blaziken was able to come in earlier if it can and gtfo safely with bp if needed with far lesser consequences.
Mega Gengar=Mega Khan>(mega) blaziken>>>>>>>>>>Mega Lucario>>>>every other megas.
edit: Another thing about Blaziken was that you could have it and some other mega on your team since the regular Blaziken is just as good as the mega blaziken. Mega Lucario, on the other hand, has the 1-mega-slot syndrome like other megas.
edit2: I am not saying mega Lucario is bad by the way. In fact, at this very moment I think he's borderline broken and wouldn't be too surprised to see the suspect testing go either way. But we really should have a suspect testing, which we will…thanks to the council.
The HUGE difference between him and Mega Blaziken is not the sweeping power per say.
The huge difference is that Lucario can't deal with his 4MSS while blaziken can just bp away from his counter/check.
That's the biggest difference. And it's a really really big difference. Mega Lucario needs to come in lategame and sweep while making sure his counters are gone. Regular/mega Blaziken was able to come in earlier if it can and gtfo safely with bp if needed with far lesser consequences.
Mega Gengar=Mega Khan>(mega) blaziken>>>>>>>>>>Mega Lucario>>>>every other megas.
edit: Another thing about Blaziken was that you could have it and some other mega on your team since the regular Blaziken is just as good as the mega blaziken. Mega Lucario, on the other hand, has the 1-mega-slot syndrome like other megas.
edit2: I am not saying mega Lucario is bad by the way. In fact, at this very moment I think he's borderline broken and wouldn't be too surprised to see the suspect testing go either way. But we really should have a suspect testing, which we will…thanks to the council.
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