Other Viable Megas

[epicdrill]

Let's start discussing Megas that will be viable for a long time, not just in the couple of months before they get suspected or banned.

Here's a few: MCX, TTar, MCY

TTar is the only one I have used enough to speak about, and it is very good. If one removes all SE opposing priority it can sweep very well if you give it 2, or, depending on what your opponent has, 1 turn of setup. I have included my preferred set.

My preferred set

DDMTar (Dragon Dance Mega Tar)
Tyranitar@Tyranitarite
Sand Stream
Jolly
204 Spe / 252 Atk / 52 HP
Dragon Dance
Crunch
Stone Edge
Earthquake
This is a set for sweeping. Dragon Dance provides you with a boosting move, giving you +1 Speed/+1 Attack. Crunch and Stone Edge are STAB moves, and Earthquake is included for coverage. This does not allow you to hit Breloom neutrally, however, you shouldn't be trying to sweep if Breloom is still alive. The nature and EV spread are just enough Speed to outpace Scarfed musketeers at +2, with Attack then maxed and the rest dumped into Speed.

 

[farranpoison]

The problem with Mega Luke Skywalker is that you can't really counter him properly until you know which set he's running, and by that time it might be too late. The special set is rapidly gaining popularity, and that set has even less counters than the physical one. When the best counter is Mega Venusaur, that says something.

Anyway, I've been testing a few not-so-popular megas, and my god, does Mega Aerodactyl suck terribly. Well, it's not too horrible, with 150 speed which allows it to run Adamant and still outspeed base 130s, but seriously, it might not have any ability at all. It and Mega Alakazam are imo the worst Megas right now.

 

[SergantGold]

Since I've already kinda broken one forum rule, I won't directly answer your question (cuz that would break the "only discuss confirmed information" rule"). Instead, I'll say that since megas cannot run leftovers, many defensive megas aren't as effective as they would be if they were normal pokemon. Some defensive megas can overcome this (like venusaur with giga drain and synthesis) while others lose viability from lack of recovery (the two that come to mind are aggron and ampharos, but there's also several that would appreciate access to recovery)


I really don't want to argue with people, but I don't completely agree with some of those points
1. Base 112 speed outspeeds most relevant threats, and most of the rest fear priority moves it can use. It also has a much easier time getting that +2 up than Blaziken ever did
2. What exactly can revenge kill MegaLuke? The number of things that can survive +2 attacks and OHKO, or 2HKO while outspeeding him is very small. Much shorter than the list of priority users or sturdy pokes that can KO a wounded Blaziken (LO, Flare Blitz, HJK, that thing is almost never full health)
3. OK, you got me. Blaziken's BP set is definitely something it has over MegaLuke, but. . .
4. Lucario's ability to use a huge number of moves is an asset, not a hindrance. No, you can't fit everything you'd like onto it, but your opponent can't always guess what he's running (he has physical and special movepools to cover the entire metagame)

As much as I appreciate you mentioning my favorite evil dude (besides darth vader, but some people say he doesn't count), I don't find your comparison any more accurate than you found mine. And while when I look only at the metagame, I favor a suspect test over a quick ban, when I consider the precedents, a quick ban seems the more likely result. And since this thread only cares about what probably will happen rather than what should happen, I think any discussion of MegaLuke's viability should have the disclaimer that it will probably be banned sooner or later

4MSS means that if it chooses one move it can't hit some things and if he picks e other he can't get other things. Thats a very bad thing. Blazikin has no such problem due to his immeanse power. And Lucario has a good amount of checks that can revenge, while Blazikin has a small list topped mainly by talonflame. And sturdy users put mega cario in the same place as Blazikin. And if you are using the SD set nothing survives and only talon can revenge. Lucario cannot boost his speed without endangering himself meaning scarfers can easily kill him.
And considering I'm going through your points backwards, To fully compare them equally in mega we have to assume blazikin was mega as well, otherwise the stats scew in favor of lucario. Mega Blazikin has better bulk than Mega Lucario.
80/80/80 > 70/88/70
And in non mega
80/70/70 > 70/70/70
Argueably normal blazikin has better Bulk than mega lucario.
(Mega) Blazikin >> Mega Gengar=Mega Khan >>>>>> Mega Lucario

 

[Zian]

Mega absol gets play rough.............anything slower than it and is weak to fairy is DEAD

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Mega absol gets play rough.............anything slower than it and is weak to fairy is DEAD

Not Dragonite. Anyway, I dislike Mega Absol because you have to switch in in order to get Magic Bounce. The reason I liked espeon so much is because just having him in your party made it hard for the opponent to set up SR and cause status and so many other things. Its still a great ability, but it'd be more useful if he had it before he mega evolved. +2 sucker punches are all the rage right now, and with STAB, its one of the best users, but I wouldn't mind a little bulk to help it get that sword dance off. Its fast and its strong, so Mega Absol is certainly a viable choice as a pokemon, but its harder to fit on a team than some other megas, which is why it hasn't gotten as much usage as it probably could.

SergantGold right now Regular Blaziken is the bar for getting banned, so of course I'm comparing Mega Luke to him and not the mega. Even with Adamant and a life orb, Blaziken still isn't as powerful as Jolly MegaLuke, and when I say that MegaLuke is better defensively, I was specifically referring to how much better steel is than fire defensively, also, those extra defense points make a difference. Since this seems to be the thing to do:

Mega Blaziken > > > Mega Kangaskhan > Mega Gengar > > > Blaziken > Mega Lucario > > > OU tier

I never meant to insinuate that Mega Lucario is more broken than Blaziken, but they share many traits that got Blaziken banned and I believe will get Lucarionite banned. Mega Lucario can do many things that are considered broken almost as well as Blaziken, and many other things on top of that. I say all of this just to say that "Mega Lucario is not viable", because it won't be in OU long. Any argument about whether it'll be quick banned or tested should be left to the moderators and threads created for that purpose.

 

[DaiGuren]

I'd like to open the discussion for the 2 MegaZards, since I haven't seen any discussion about them.

Do you guys think that these two mons are really OU material? Or do those 2 belong to the Talonflame hype-train, and are only getting usage because of the "shiny toys" factor.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

I'd like to open the discussion for the 2 MegaZards, since I haven't seen any discussion about them.

Do you guys think that these two mons are really OU material? Or do those 2 belong to the Talonflame hype-train, and are only getting usage because of the "shiny toys" factor.

They're legitimately good sweepers and they have the added surprise factor of "is it Mega X or Mega Y?" which works in much the same way as "is it special or physical Luke?"

The Talonflame hype-train is only because it has powerful priority. It has 81 attack, it doesn't really hit hard against any decent tank, even CB variants. Megazard hits like a truck.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

I'd like to open the discussion for the 2 MegaZards, since I haven't seen any discussion about them.

Do you guys think that these two mons are really OU material? Or do those 2 belong to the Talonflame hype-train, and are only getting usage because of the "shiny toys" factor.

Both charizards are viable imo. X instantly became one of the best dragon dance sweepers, with its amazing coverage, strong attacks, and surprising bulk. It also has access to some fun sets that include things like belly drum or flame charge, and can absolutely wreck a team if you let it. Y is also great, but not so much for its sweeping. Y is a natural wall breaker, as sun boosted fire blasts will cause massive damage to even the bulkiest pokemon. I also enjoy using it as a late game cleaner as it has decent speed and bulk to KO several foes if none can KO it.

 

[AOPSUser]

Mega Charizard Y:

252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Keldeo in Sun: 170-201 (52.6 - 62.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Infernape in Sun: 207-243 (70.6 - 82.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 186-219 (44.2 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock, 1 layer of Spikes, and Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Mega Charizard Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges in Sun: 168-198 (46.6 - 55%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

You better have a Tyranitar, because otherwise you are going down pretty hard.

Mega Charizard X:
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Hippowdon: 220-261 (52.3 - 62.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Dragon Claw vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mega Venusaur: 160-189 (43.9 - 51.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
+2 252 Atk Tough Claws Mega Charizard X Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Giratina in Sun: 242-285 (48 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Yeah that last one isn't serious but it shows its power pretty well, and you really can't afford to let it get more than +1.

 

[DaiGuren]

So it's accepted that both ZardX and ZardY are in the same level as Pinsir and Mawile, in the sense that them mons bring a lot to the table but are easily walled and countered by OU mons that are not niche?

I'm fearing that after MegaLuke gets chopped, people will start turning their attention to both Zards and vote for a suspect test or soemthing liketh at.

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

So it's accepted that both ZardX and ZardY are in the same level as Pinsir and Mawile, in the sense that them mons bring a lot to the table but are easily walled and countered by OU mons that are not niche?

I'm fearing that after MegaLuke gets chopped, people will start turning their attention to both Zards and vote for a suspect test or soemthing liketh at.

No, Heatran is one of the most used pokemon this gen, and there's several dragons that can beat either of them pretty easily. Also anything that they don't outspeed and OHKO has the potential to cause decent damage. They have great bulk for offensive pokes, but it will only take them so far. They are great pokemon, but hardly broken. Pinsir and Mawile are being attacked for their great stats AND access to priority moves that can KO things that outspeed them. Charizard doesn't have that problem

 

[Shiruba]

So it's accepted that both ZardX and ZardY are in the same level as Pinsir and Mawile, in the sense that them mons bring a lot to the table but are easily walled and countered by OU mons that are not niche?

I'm fearing that after MegaLuke gets chopped, people will start turning their attention to both Zards and vote for a suspect test or soemthing liketh at.

I don't personally see the zards going anywhere. They are very powerful, true, and I honestly think that people dismiss Y just because it's very SR weak, but they are both quite good, with X being a setup sweeper, Y being a wallbreaker {and technically more statistically powerful}, with both having nice movepools to abuse. They are, however, weak to SR, are fairly slow unboosted, both having decent counters that aren't niche, etc.

Like, it's not totally out of the question to see them banned, but I rather doubt it.

 

[DaiGuren]

No, Heatran is one of the most used pokemon this gen, and there's several dragons that can beat either of them pretty easily. Also anything that they don't outspeed and OHKO has the potential to cause decent damage. They have great bulk for offensive pokes, but it will only take them so far. They are great pokemon, but hardly broken. Pinsir and Mawile are being attacked for their great stats AND access to priority moves that can KO things that outspeed them. Charizard doesn't have that problem

Heatran is manhandled by both Zards if predicted as EQ from ZardX OHKOs while EQ/Focus Blast from ZardY is a 2HKO on both variants. Just sayin', but they still get walled by a ton of pokes, though it's a toss up in the air since different mons wall the two Zards.

 

[sonnytapman]

Okay, I'm going to ask why people are hating on Mega Heracross. He learns several moves that Skill link supports, and that leads to him having great coverage. Pin Missile is not the only 2-5 move MHera gets. He can also get Bullet Seed as a remembered move and Rock Blast through breeding with Dwebble. Bullet Seed provides decent coverage, while Rock Blast will take care of physical fire types and Mega Pinsir. It has good coverage, and a more than useful ability considering his movepool.

 

[AOPSUser]

Okay, I'm going to ask why people are hating on Mega Heracross. He learns several moves that Skill link supports, and that leads to him having great coverage. Pin Missile is not the only 2-5 move MHera gets. He can also get Bullet Seed as a remembered move and Rock Blast through breeding with Dwebble. Bullet Seed provides decent coverage, while Rock Blast will take care of physical fire types and Mega Pinsir. It has good coverage, and a more than useful ability considering his movepool.

Mega Heracross loses its Speed, which means it plays differently from normal Heracross. If Mega is going bulky, it can't use Close Combat and Arm Thrust is just not worth it, so if M-Hera tries going bulky it won't be able to use Fighting STAB.

Mega Heracross also can't hold an item, which means it can't use Leftovers, so it's not as bulky as imagined. It also can't use an Attack-boosting item, which means that CB Heracross outdamages it, it can't use Life Orb, meaning that LO SD Heracross outdamages it, and its Speed is too low to try an all-out offensive set.

If it is going to try a bulky set it is shit on by Talonflame, Fire-type coverage, and strong Psychics, which OU has a lot of.

Not to mention a lot of people are running a different Mega.

It is really good with the correct support though.

 

[xSilentDeviL]

Mega Heracross loses its Speed, which means it plays differently from normal Heracross. If Mega is going bulky, it can't use Close Combat and Arm Thrust is just not worth it, so if M-Hera tries going bulky it won't be able to use Fighting STAB.

Mega Heracross also can't hold an item, which means it can't use Leftovers, so it's not as bulky as imagined. It also can't use an Attack-boosting item, which means that CB Heracross outdamages it, it can't use Life Orb, meaning that LO SD Heracross outdamages it, and its Speed is too low to try an all-out offensive set.

If it is going to try a bulky set it is shit on by Talonflame, Fire-type coverage, and strong Psychics, which OU has a lot of.

Not to mention a lot of people are running a different Mega.

It is really good with the correct support though.

everything this guy said plus no more moxie, which was pretty cool on Heracross.

 

[Ropeburn]

Mega Heracross is very good this generation. I would honestly venture as far to say that he's one of my favorites. He destroys Rotom-W, and has nice bulk in conjunction with powerful CC's and Pin Missles. I feel like once Mega-Luke gets banned, people are really going to understand just how good of a wallbreaker it is. Just because it requires proper support doesn't mean it's bad.

Talonflame keeps getting mentioned, but honestly it can't switch in on any attacks, and that Stealth Rock weakness sucks.

 

[sonnytapman]

Mega Heracross loses its Speed, which means it plays differently from normal Heracross. If Mega is going bulky, it can't use Close Combat and Arm Thrust is just not worth it, so if M-Hera tries going bulky it won't be able to use Fighting STAB.

Mega Heracross also can't hold an item, which means it can't use Leftovers, so it's not as bulky as imagined. It also can't use an Attack-boosting item, which means that CB Heracross outdamages it, it can't use Life Orb, meaning that LO SD Heracross outdamages it, and its Speed is too low to try an all-out offensive set.

If it is going to try a bulky set it is shit on by Talonflame, Fire-type coverage, and strong Psychics, which OU has a lot of.

Not to mention a lot of people are running a different Mega.

It is really good with the correct support though.

That is a valid argument, but your overlooking the fact the MHera has the second highest base Attack, at 185, beaten only by Mega Mewtwo X. It also has a respectable 115 defense, as well as a decent 105 Special defense. So, it's a different play from Heracross normally, who's (kind of) a sweeper. MHera decides to go along more of a wall killer. Avalugg and Blissey are weak to Close Combat, Carbink goes down in a Bullet Seed or two, and Escavailer is down in a couple of Rock Blasts.

So MHera fills another roll. It's not meant to be bulky, it's meant to kill walls.

 

[AOPSUser]

That is a valid argument, but your overlooking the fact the MHera has the second highest base Attack, at 185, beaten only by Mega Mewtwo X. It also has a respectable 115 defense, as well as a decent 105 Special defense. So, it's a different play from Heracross normally, who's (kind of) a sweeper. MHera decides to go along more of a wall killer. Avalugg and Blissey are weak to Close Combat, Carbink goes down in a Bullet Seed or two, and Escavailer is down in a couple of Rock Blasts.

So MHera fills another roll. It's not meant to be bulky, it's meant to kill walls.

I said exactly that--it's supposed to be a bulky attacker, which is quite a challenge in a metagame filled with Talonflame, fast strong Psychic-types, and Fire-type coverage everywhere.

Also your wall examples are really, really bad. Carbink does nothing and should not be considered for a serious team outside of possibly NU or RU (which is stretching it). Escavalier is low-tier material, below Heracross. It's not even a wall in the first place. Blissey is not staying in on you. Also Avalugg isn't common and isn't staying in on you, Close Combat or not, and it can take a Close Combat if it needs to. The defenses fall a bit short too, especially after a Close Combat, due to your lack of item.

 

[Martingale]

So much love for Mega Manectric. It's extremely proficient at grabbing momentum, and Intimidate makes it all the more useful. In theory, you're gonna put yourself in a better position by Volt Switching to a counter. And let me tell you even at +0 Volt Switch from Mega Manetric dents things pretty badly. However it's got a poor moveset: I run VS/Overheat/Thunderbolt/HP Ice. But the set doesn't matter too much because this thing is meant to pretty much just switch in, and Volt Switch heading to a counter. I also run Pivot Mandibuzz, which has a rather slow U-Turn and the team synergy provided by a fast and slow switcher has served me well. The problem people have with Megas is they expect them to take down entire teams effortlessly-- Mega Manetric isn't really going to do that but it does what it's made for, and that is momentum gain.

 

[sonnytapman]

I said exactly that--it's supposed to be a bulky attacker, which is quite a challenge in a metagame filled with Talonflame, fast strong Psychic-types, and Fire-type coverage everywhere.

Also your wall examples are really, really bad. Carbink does nothing and should not be considered for a serious team outside of possibly NU or RU (which is stretching it). Escavalier is low-tier material, below Heracross. It's not even a wall in the first place. Blissey is not staying in on you. Also Avalugg isn't common and isn't staying in on you, Close Combat or not, and it can take a Close Combat if it needs to. The defenses fall a bit short too, especially after a Close Combat, due to your lack of item.

Huh. I was told that out of all the new walls, Carbink was the best. Opps. There's also the fact that every time Escavalier was used against me, it was used as a wall. I need to tell my friend he's doing it wrong. Let's try that again.

MHera can take down A Mega Venasaur in 2-3 Pin Missles from personal experience. He also can 2-3 a Hippodown, or just one with swords dance baton pass. He's also decent at taking down Cofagrigus thanks to rock blast.

Actually, the more I look at it, the more MHera seems like it can only be good with proper support from baton passing.

 

[Shiruba]

Nah, that's not true. Megacross is not bad, mkay? It's just that the OU metagame isn't the kindest to it. With powerful threats in OU right now that threaten it, most notably Genesect and Talonflame, as well as Aegislash, which is very much an uphill battle for it to overcome, it just has a harder time succeeding. So, what I'm saying is, it's not that Heracross is bad; his attack is sky-high, he can break sashes and substitutes, and the power in his attacks is incredible. It's simply that OU is, at the moment at least, full of Pokemon that either cause it trouble or flat-out stop it in its tracks, and is simply not kind to it. Pokemon rise and fall according to their need; Tentacruel became OU last gen because it worked excellently on a rain team for spinning, while Suicune fell because the new sleep mechanics crapped on it, Ferrothorn and Sun Venusaur were popular, and the meta at the time was [arguably] less welcoming for most types of stall. While stats, movepools and abilities are important, the environment they are in and the other Pokemon that they interact with are just as important. Don't forget that.

 

[eesang]

I think Mega Heracross is just outclassed by Mega Mawile as a slow, physical powerhouse.

Even if a little slower, Mawile has better defensive typing and access to Sucker Punch. I'm only really intimidated by M.Heracross if it received Baton Pass support.

 

[CQC]

The thing that I think hurts MHera the Most is lack of Priority. If it had Vacuum Wave, I think the beetle would have a much easier time. Well, It's time to start reconstructing my team from the bottom up.

Vacuum Wave is a special move, so MHera wouldn't be able to use it decently, so I think you mean Mach Punch.

 

[sora13]

Sorry for double posting, but we should talk about Mega-Pinser. With a movepool filled with good normal type attacks, MegaPin is a viable threat to Fighting types. Return, Giga Impact, Strength, and Thrash are all very good moves, and a Priority move in Quick Attack. Very powerful.

.......Giga Impact......