Pokémon Banette

[NotSoClutch]

It's somewhat like aegislash. It requires a lot of prediction, and if you do it wrong, aegis is dead. If you do it right, aegis destroys a few pokemon. You gotta know when to switch out, when to attack, etc. Play poorly and you'll find yourself with a dead Banette, play well and you end up with 2-3 dead pokemon. It's because of Babette's reputation of priority destiny bond that allows this set to be useful, because they expect that, and attempt to toxic stall, or set up. You can take off their life orb or leftovers when they set up or toxic stall, making them a lot less useful. Then you switch in to the appropriate pokemon, or proceed to finish off that pokemon, depending on how much damage you did.

If thats all you use it for, why not use a life orb weaville. It's faster, hits harder, and doesnt take up a mega slot.

 

[qwazz]

Weakvile is a frailmon who gets killed when you poke it with a stick, as well as subpar typing. Plus it doesn't get priority destiny bond. I've used all of banette's utility sets, but this is the only one that's worked for me.

Also if I used weakvile I'd have to change my team around and stuff, but that's beside the point

 

[NotSoClutch]

Weakvile is a frailmon who gets killed when you poke it with a stick, as well as subpar typing. Plus it doesn't get priority destiny bond. I've used all of banette's utility sets, but this is the only one that's worked for me.

Also if I used weakvile I'd have to change my team around and stuff, but that's beside the point

Look, I'm not trying to insult you at all. I'm basically telling you that you should tweek your bannette if you want the best results. Offensive bannette isn't a terrible idea. You just aren't really making the best offensive bannette build. I'm not trying to convince you to completely rework your set, I'm telling you that in my and many other people at Smogons experience, two priority attacks that don't cover very different types isn't a great idea. Adding a coverage attack or at the very least something stronger will help a lot I think.

Oh, and the weaville suggestion was one out of frustration. It is weak defensively, but it actually does most of what you were describing. And its typing is fantastic offensively.

 

[qwazz]

Look, I'm not trying to insult you at all. I'm basically telling you that you should tweek your bannette if you want the best results. Offensive bannette isn't a terrible idea. You just aren't really making the best offensive bannette build. I'm not trying to convince you to completely rework your set, I'm telling you that in my and many other people at Smogons experience, two priority attacks that don't cover very different types isn't a great idea. Adding a coverage attack or at the very least something stronger will help a lot I think.

Oh, and the weaville suggestion was one out of frustration. It is weak defensively, but it actually does most of what you were describing. And its typing is fantastic offensively.

I was talking more about weaviles defensive typing, but yeah. Anyways, I guess I'll try shadow claw in place of shadow sneak, but shadow sneak has gotten some nice kills.

Weavile doesn't fit my play style anway :P

 

[NotSoClutch]

I was talking more about weaviles defensive typing, but yeah. Anyways, I guess I'll try shadow claw in place of shadow sneak, but shadow sneak has gotten some nice kills.

Weavile doesn't fit my play style anway :P

Fair enough. :p I honestly don't know how well it will work since I haven't tried to run an offensive benette, but it definitely hits hard and that is the point from what I understand.

Tell me how it well it works out. If need be, I can look at banettes movepool and see what else might work.

 

[zferolie]

If I am already using a Rotom Heat with Will-o-wisp, I don't need it on my Mega Banette then. I was thinking of using Disable instead.

Mega Banette
Phantom Force
Disable
Gunk Shot
Destiny Bond

Brave Nature. 252 in Attack and HP. rest in Defense or something

Ghost/Poison gives pretty good coverage. not as much as the Normal/Ghost but pretty close. Plus gives you a bit more SE hits. The 30% poison chance doesn't hurt either.

Why the speed lowering nature? Well, the idea is to switch Banette in on a fighting choiced pokemon, or someone you know can't touch or fears it. When they switch, you mega evolve and Phantom force. Next turn you are completely immune to their damages and you hit them hard. If they don't die, you Disable whatever move they were using. Next turn you Destiny Bond. Now, unless I am mistaken, destiny bound lasts untill you attack again, and since you are extra slow, that is 2 turns of protection! You either Phantom force or Gunk shot, while you know they need to take care to not kill you. Destiny bond again or Disable the nest turn.

The trick is just mega evolving him. Not TERRIBLY hard if you know when to switch in.

 

[TKGriffiths]

Gunk Shot

Get rid of this if you want to be taken seriously. Banette pretty much needs to use priority, whether that be non-attacking moves or Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch.

 

[zferolie]

Get rid of this if you want to be taken seriously. Banette pretty much needs to use priority, whether that be non-attacking moves or Shadow Sneak/Sucker Punch.

But with the idea of how destiny bond works, wouldn't it be better to have moves that are a bit slower? I mean, my understanding of destiny bond is that it stays afttive till you do your next action. If you have priority Destiny bond the first turn, and then the next turn you move second, that means the foe has 2 chances to activate destiny bond, right? Having a priority attack would ruin that.

 

[TKGriffiths]

But with the idea of how destiny bond works, wouldn't it be better to have moves that are a bit slower? I mean, my understanding of destiny bond is that it stays afttive till you do your next action. If you have priority Destiny bond the first turn, and then the next turn you move second, that means the foe has 2 chances to activate destiny bond, right? Having a priority attack would ruin that.

You only use Destiny Bond when you're going to die so anything that happens after that is pretty much irrelevant. If you use Destiny Bond and don't die you wasted a turn, and even if your logic made sense in that department what is the point of attacking something that's going to die to Destiny Bond anyway?

And even if there was a good reason to use a non-priority move Gunk Shot is a pretty bad choice, Knock Off or Thunderbolt are better for the secondary effect and coverage respectively.

 

[qwazz]

But with the idea of how destiny bond works, wouldn't it be better to have moves that are a bit slower? I mean, my understanding of destiny bond is that it stays afttive till you do your next action. If you have priority Destiny bond the first turn, and then the next turn you move second, that means the foe has 2 chances to activate destiny bond, right? Having a priority attack would ruin that.

Gunk shot is less reliable than my set is, plus a lot of things that would switch in to mega Banette would have protect, making shadow force pretty useless. You must not be in very high ranks, because anyone with half a brain knows not to attack a banette. If Banette can't do much damage to the opposing pokemon, you're basically set up bait.

 

[Chrattac]

Just wanted to point out that Phantom Force ignores protecting moves. Also Gunk Shot got accuracy boost and is as accurate as Fire Blast iirc...

E:OK, checked and Fire Blast is 85 while Gunk Shot is 80 accuracy.

 

[qwazz]

Just wanted to point out that Phantom Force ignores protecting moves. Also Gunk Shot got accuracy boost and is as accurate as Fire Blast iirc...

Oh yeah, forgot about Phantom force hitting through protect. I also wasn't aware that gunk shot had a boost to accuracy. Did its power get lowered like the other moves?
Anyways, if you're gonna use this set, you better have a mega lucario counter, cuz that thing is gonna spam swords dance/nasty plot if you don't switch out. It also has bullet punch, so it can outspeed banette's +1 destiny bond.

 

[Cshadow]

You only use Destiny Bond when you're going to die so anything that happens after that is pretty much irrelevant. If you use Destiny Bond and don't die you wasted a turn, and even if your logic made sense in that department what is the point of attacking something that's going to die to Destiny Bond anyway?

Just saying: The effect of Destiny Bond lingers until your next attack. You can essentially make Destiny Bond last two turns by using Destiny Bond one turn and a non-priority attacking move the next. This is a great way to keep pressure on your opponent because even if they waste the turn you used Destiny Bond setting up, they still can't attack you the turn after unless they too want to die. This is why, as you mentioned, that Knock Off is such a great move on M-B, as this scenario is capable of forcing a lot of switches which allows M-B to cripple opponent's that think they're smart by staying in (and also those that switch in).

 

[zferolie]

You only use Destiny Bond when you're going to die so anything that happens after that is pretty much irrelevant. If you use Destiny Bond and don't die you wasted a turn, and even if your logic made sense in that department what is the point of attacking something that's going to die to Destiny Bond anyway?

And even if there was a good reason to use a non-priority move Gunk Shot is a pretty bad choice, Knock Off or Thunderbolt are better for the secondary effect and coverage respectively.

Knock off is a great move... but the coverage with Phantom Force is not great. Can't touch darks. And my plan is if I disabled their set up move, they are forced to attack, and I could make them attack me to get their attack. And if they switch? I just phantom force the turn they switch, and repeat.

Gunk shot is less reliable than my set is, plus a lot of things that would switch in to mega Banette would have protect, making shadow force pretty useless. You must not be in very high ranks, because anyone with half a brain knows not to attack a banette. If Banette can't do much damage to the opposing pokemon, you're basically set up bait.

Phantom force goes through protect you know... And Disable stops a lot of set up pokemon to normally. And really... Thunderbolt may give you better coverage, but why waste that massive attack? I will admit, the acc of Gunk shot is less then desirable.

ANd like I said, I have a Rotom using Will-o-wisp already. I don't need 2 pokemon to burn.

Just wanted to point out that Phantom Force ignores protecting moves. Also Gunk Shot got accuracy boost and is as accurate as Fire Blast iirc...

E:OK, checked and Fire Blast is 85 while Gunk Shot is 80 accuracy.

Oh yeah, forgot about Phantom force hitting through protect. I also wasn't aware that gunk shot had a boost to accuracy. Did its power get lowered like the other moves?
Anyways, if you're gonna use this set, you better have a mega lucario counter, cuz that thing is gonna spam swords dance/nasty plot if you don't switch out. It also has bullet punch, so it can outspeed banette's +1 destiny bond.

Ah someone pointed out the phantom force going through Protect. And Gunk SHot is Still 120 power

As for a mega Lucario COunter, I do have Rotom Heat with Will-o wisp and over heat. That should destroy Mega Lucario

EDIT:

Just saying: The effect of Destiny Bond lingers until your next attack. You can essentially make Destiny Bond last two turns by using Destiny Bond one turn and a non-priority attacking move the next. This is a great way to keep pressure on your opponent because even if they waste the turn you used Destiny Bond setting up, they still can't attack you the turn after unless they too want to die. This is why, as you mentioned, that Knock Off is such a great move on M-B, as this scenario is capable of forcing a lot of switches which allows M-B to cripple opponent's that think they're smart by staying in (and also those that switch in).

Exactly., That 2 turn threat of Destiny bond can really keep the pressure on the foe. However, you bring up a good point on knock off with that idea. with them switching so often, you can knock off so many items.

However, Ghost/Dark doesn't give you great coverage...

 

[TKGriffiths]

As for a mega Lucario COunter, I do have Rotom Heat with Will-o wisp and over heat. That should destroy Mega Lucario

Rotom can't stop Lucario, it's outspeeded and destroyed by Close Combat. I just find it a massive waste that you'd give status moves to a good attacker and attacks to a good priority status user.

 

[zferolie]

Rotom can't stop Lucario, it's outspeeded and destroyed by Close Combat. I just find it a massive waste that you'd give status moves to a good attacker and attacks to a good priority status user.

Huh, I thought Rotom was bulky enough to survive most attacks. I have seen bulk rotoms being used with W-o-W.

ANd I am not JUST giving it that status. I am giving it Overheat, VOlt Switch, and something else (shadow ball?)

And Why waste that massive attack Mega Banette has? I think 2 status and 2 attacks is a good Balance. I mean, I SUPPOSE I could throw in a 3rd status over Gunk shot... but then I can't touch normal types.

 

[qwazz]

Huh, I thought Rotom was bulky enough to survive most attacks. I have seen bulk rotoms being used with W-o-W.

ANd I am not JUST giving it that status. I am giving it Overheat, VOlt Switch, and something else (shadow ball?)

And Why waste that massive attack Mega Banette has? I think 2 status and 2 attacks is a good Balance. I mean, I SUPPOSE I could throw in a 3rd status over Gunk shot... but then I can't touch normal types.

Rotom anything will get raped by +2 lucario. While you're switching Banette out, mega luc is gonna be setting up that swords dance or nasty plot. You will die instantly, even with rotom a decent bulk

 

[TKGriffiths]

Huh, I thought Rotom was bulky enough to survive most attacks. I have seen bulk rotoms being used with W-o-W.

ANd I am not JUST giving it that status. I am giving it Overheat, VOlt Switch, and something else (shadow ball?)

And Why waste that massive attack Mega Banette has? I think 2 status and 2 attacks is a good Balance. I mean, I SUPPOSE I could throw in a 3rd status over Gunk shot... but then I can't touch normal types.

Oh I'm not saying bulky Rotom with status moves is bad it's actually very good, I'm just saying it's still OHKOd by a boosted lucario while Banette could cripple it with prankster will-o-wisp.

You're right that Banette's stats suggest it should have an attack or two but the truth is, the only really good attack it learns is shadow sneak. Prankster is what makes mega Banette viable so you should abuse it as best you can.

 

[qwazz]

Prankster is what makes mega Banette viable so you should abuse it as best you can.

This is wrong. I'm telling you: the set that a lot of people here are running is basically sableye, except no recovery, but destiny bond. Destiny bond with shadow sneak works horribly, so you need at least 1 non priority move. His set is interesting, however I think knock off is almost a must on a Banette that's going to be attack based

 

[TKGriffiths]

This is wrong.

I hardly think the statement is wrong lol, Banette would be nothing without Prankster. Shadow Sneak + Destiny Bond is only bad if you make it bad by incorrectly using Destiny Bond when you're not being attacked. Shadow Claw is a decent option sure but it's more about the higher base power than the non-priority.

 

[zferolie]

Rotom anything will get raped by +2 lucario. While you're switching Banette out, mega luc is gonna be setting up that swords dance or nasty plot. You will die instantly, even with rotom a decent bulk

Hmm, true A plus 2 anything from Mega Lucario is going to hurt. But if I am in on Mega Lucario with Mega Banette, and I know it is going to be setting up, I may just toss out Destiny bond/Phantom Forces. I mean... the idea is Mega Banette comes in after a few threats like that are already gone. Plus, I have a feeling quite a few people forget Destiny bond lasts till your next attack. I admit, not a true counter, but still... something I guess?

Oh I'm not saying bulky Rotom with status moves is bad it's actually very good, I'm just saying it's still OHKOd by a boosted lucario while Banette could cripple it with prankster will-o-wisp.

You're right that Banette's stats suggest it should have an attack or two but the truth is, the only really good attack it learns is shadow sneak. Prankster is what makes mega Banette viable so you should abuse it as best you can.

Both are going to be murdered by a boosted Lucario. Bullet punch is faster then Prankster W-o-W.

This is wrong. I'm telling you: the set that a lot of people here are running is basically sableye, except no recovery, but destiny bond. Destiny bond with shadow sneak works horribly, so you need at least 1 non priority move. His set is interesting, however I think knock off is almost a must on a Banette that's going to be attack based

Knock off is a good move, and it is tempting, but what move should replace it? Phantom force is a very powerful STAB move, and Gunk shot gives you great coverage...

I hardly think the statement is wrong lol, Banette would be nothing without Prankster. Shadow Sneak + Destiny Bond is only bad if you make it bad by incorrectly using Destiny Bond when you're not being attacked. Shadow Claw is a decent option sure but it's more about the higher base power than the non-priority.

I still like phantom force because of the damage advoidance. Plus, it's stronger then Shadow claw and shadow sneak.

 

[NotSoClutch]

This is getting chaotic, so I will go ahead and step in here. The reason bannette is so good is that it is a near guarenteed kill due to priority destiny bond and slow attacks coming off of a massive attack stat to punish any attempt of escaping death through stall. The only way to truly beat a mbannette is to out predict it and and safely switch a priority user in to kill it. Other than this purpose,bannette can either cripple opponents with will-o-wisp or decide to attack as either a revenge killer with sucker punch/shadow sneak or tank with phantom force/gunk shot/shadow claw. All attacking purposes should be for kills you know you can make without losing bannette or for forcing switches. All utility purposes should be kept to disable to setup a sweeper, will-o-wisp to cripple an opposing sweeper/wall breaker, or knock off for damage and to take away items from opponents. Priority attacks should be used as weak revenge killing options and not destiny bond accompanyments. Protect is also viable if you want to use bannette as kind of a suicide inescapable deathmon. Every set on this page is somewhat viable as long as you know why banette is good. The attacking power is great if you need it, but things like lucario are stronger. So, remember why it is so useful before you slap it on a team with some random moves.

 

[zferolie]

This is getting chaotic, so I will go ahead and step in here. The reason bannette is so good is that it is a near guarenteed kill due to priority destiny bond and slow attacks coming off of a massive attack stat to punish any attempt of escaping death through stall. The only way to truly beat a mbannette is to out predict it and and safely switch a priority user in to kill it. Other than this purpose,bannette can either cripple opponents with will-o-wisp or decide to attack as either a revenge killer with sucker punch/shadow sneak or tank with phantom force/gunk shot/shadow claw. All attacking purposes should be for kills you know you can make without losing bannette or for forcing switches. All utility purposes should be kept to disable to setup a sweeper, will-o-wisp to cripple an opposing sweeper/wall breaker, or knock off for damage and to take away items from opponents. Priority attacks should be used as weak revenge killing options and not destiny bond accompanyments. Protect is also viable if you want to use bannette as kind of a suicide inescapable deathmon. Every set on this page is somewhat viable as long as you know why banette is good. The attacking power is great if you need it, but things like lucario are stronger. So, remember why it is so useful before you slap it on a team with some random moves.

*nods* That pretty much sums up exactly what I think of Mega Banette. I am a huge ghost fan, and Have been looking up stuff for him for quite awhile Priority users will be his biggest threat. Right now I hope he fits in on my planned team as well as I am hoping (Slurpuff, Lapras, Rotom Heat, Gogoat, and Diggersby)

 

[qwazz]

*nods* That pretty much sums up exactly what I think of Mega Banette. I am a huge ghost fan, and Have been looking up stuff for him for quite awhile Priority users will be his biggest threat. Right now I hope he fits in on my planned team as well as I am hoping (Slurpuff, Lapras, Rotom Heat, Gogoat, and Diggersby)

I just wanted to say: Banette gets return, so return may be a Better option, I don't think very many things resist ghost/normal

 

[thelandlordsmm]

I just wanted to say: Banette gets return, so return may be a Better option, I don't think very many things resist ghost/normal

Bisharp is really the only one I can think of...