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Averagemons - See new thread
- Thread starter Fusxfaranto
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NFE pokemon don't have as good of a movepool, though. That is why they are not OP and eviolite is not banned.
Except, eviolite is banned. Look at the first post. And another thing that's banned is huge power. But back to the meta. A huge threat in this meta that no one's mentioned is Breloom. Breloom is a monster with it's (mostly) shitty stats in OU, but here it's terrifying. The set I enjoy running is a defensive set with max HP and Defense (with speed creepying, lol), and runs Spore/Low Sweep/Leech Seed/Substitute. Although everything else is obvious on this set, low sweep is kind of an oddity. The reason I run it is because, with Breloom's newfound bulk, and good tying, Breloom is easily able to tank most hits, hit the opponent with low sweep, and easily outspeed them. Then Breloom is able to start a deadly subseeding chain that has a hard time ending unless the opponent has: 1. A grass type, 2. A sap sipper mon, or 3. a regenerator core and switch pp stalls out breloom. For this reason, breloom works best when paired with trappers like Gotherita and Dugtrio.
Haven't actually played this meta, so I'm just gonna go ahead and theorymon about some cool things:
- In a metagame where speed ties are all over the place, paralysis is probably stronger than ever. Therefor, Murkrow might very well be the hero we need, thanks to its great movepool and access to Prankster. A simple set of Thunder Wave/Whirlwind/Roost and a filler move (Knock Off or Taunt would be my favorite picks, Foul Play might do vs scary things like Victini, Sub would be funny for when your opponent can touch you, Swagger is a never) it can become a very durable paraphazer with priority Roost, allowing it to stay healthy for a long time. Anyone who suggests that Mandibuzz would be good in this meta is wrong: Murkrow has fuckin Prankster and yes you will hate it once it gets enough usage.
- Mienshao would probably be really cool, with its boosted bulk now giving Regenerator more utility than before. The extremely underused Baton Pass sets would become amazing, as she can practically keep on passing subs and Swords Dances to teammates without wearing herself down anytime soon. Very scary imo.
- Speaking of Regenerator, Amoonguss is back and ready to use its fast Spore in order to wreak havoc. Stun Spore gives him a means to paralyze his enemies, Clear Smog allows him to stop boosting sweepers (who, I imagine, are more common than ever), and that coupled with the durability Regenerator gives him, allows him to become a fantastic defensive mon.
- Any Intimidate mon competes for Pokemon with best physical defense. How about a Staraptor, who can now easily shrug off physical blows, deal damage back with STAB Brave Bird and heal with Roost before U-Turning out? Hitmontop gets to be a decent spinner (dunno if hazards are much of a big deal in this meta but whatevs), with its Intimidate-boosted bulk and access to Foresight, as well as a great STAB move in Close Combat. Masquerain hates SR (hoorah for Hitmontop), but does have access to Intimidate as well as access to the almighty Quiver Dance as well as Baton Pass, so that's cool (Venomoth still is better though, thanks to not having a 4x weakness to SR and being able to use Sleep Powder shenanigans for a free turn of setup).
- Shuckle has a niche now, oh my god! It's true: Encore can lock enemies into a harmless move and Shuckle can actually sweep after using Shell Smash. Having Sturdy doesn't hurt either, now that its defenses aren't as ridiculous as they used to be (especially after a Shell Smash, you'll really need it). On the topic of Shell Smashers: Cloyster now is the strongest user of it by far thanks to Skill Link. Torkoal can take a more defensive approach at smashing: With Will-o-Wisp, it can prevent opponents from blasting through his defense once he has smashed and he can threaten to spin away hazards.
That'll be enough for now.
- In a metagame where speed ties are all over the place, paralysis is probably stronger than ever. Therefor, Murkrow might very well be the hero we need, thanks to its great movepool and access to Prankster. A simple set of Thunder Wave/Whirlwind/Roost and a filler move (Knock Off or Taunt would be my favorite picks, Foul Play might do vs scary things like Victini, Sub would be funny for when your opponent can touch you, Swagger is a never) it can become a very durable paraphazer with priority Roost, allowing it to stay healthy for a long time. Anyone who suggests that Mandibuzz would be good in this meta is wrong: Murkrow has fuckin Prankster and yes you will hate it once it gets enough usage.
- Mienshao would probably be really cool, with its boosted bulk now giving Regenerator more utility than before. The extremely underused Baton Pass sets would become amazing, as she can practically keep on passing subs and Swords Dances to teammates without wearing herself down anytime soon. Very scary imo.
- Speaking of Regenerator, Amoonguss is back and ready to use its fast Spore in order to wreak havoc. Stun Spore gives him a means to paralyze his enemies, Clear Smog allows him to stop boosting sweepers (who, I imagine, are more common than ever), and that coupled with the durability Regenerator gives him, allows him to become a fantastic defensive mon.
- Any Intimidate mon competes for Pokemon with best physical defense. How about a Staraptor, who can now easily shrug off physical blows, deal damage back with STAB Brave Bird and heal with Roost before U-Turning out? Hitmontop gets to be a decent spinner (dunno if hazards are much of a big deal in this meta but whatevs), with its Intimidate-boosted bulk and access to Foresight, as well as a great STAB move in Close Combat. Masquerain hates SR (hoorah for Hitmontop), but does have access to Intimidate as well as access to the almighty Quiver Dance as well as Baton Pass, so that's cool (Venomoth still is better though, thanks to not having a 4x weakness to SR and being able to use Sleep Powder shenanigans for a free turn of setup).
- Shuckle has a niche now, oh my god! It's true: Encore can lock enemies into a harmless move and Shuckle can actually sweep after using Shell Smash. Having Sturdy doesn't hurt either, now that its defenses aren't as ridiculous as they used to be (especially after a Shell Smash, you'll really need it). On the topic of Shell Smashers: Cloyster now is the strongest user of it by far thanks to Skill Link. Torkoal can take a more defensive approach at smashing: With Will-o-Wisp, it can prevent opponents from blasting through his defense once he has smashed and he can threaten to spin away hazards.
That'll be enough for now.
While the loss of her Mega Evolution hurts, I feel like Mawile can still be a huge threat thanks to Sheer Force and Swords Dance. Life Orb + Sheer Force is already absurdly powerful, and thanks to Pokebank allowing her to learn the Elemental Punches, she's not short on move options either. Add to it 100/100/100 defenses and a typing with 2 immunities and 9 resistances, and there's no shortage of opportunities for her to get a Swords Dance off.
I could also see Gourgeist becoming a huge threat, now that it has enough speed and special attack to make the best use of its movepool. Gourgeist can run its traditional defending set, a physical offensive set, a special offensive set, or even a mixed offense set. The variety and depth of Gourgeist's movepool makes it highly unpredictable, and capable of filling nearly any role you may want.
Anything with Quiver Dance can now effectively run a bulky set. Most notably, Volcarona's bulky set has been drastically improved. Vivillon also benefits tremendously from the increase in defenses, and Compoundeyes Sleep Powder/Hurricane only makes her more threatening. Lilligant may also see an increase in play, thanks to Leech Seed or Giga Drain drastically improving her recovery.
Clefable has already been mentioned, but let's not forget Sigilyph. It's usual Cosmic Power set now becomes even stronger thanks to improved stats all around.
Lastly, I can see Audino doing very well now. With Chansey and Blissey taking such a massive hit to their HP and Special Defense, a Regenerating Wish Passer has greater survivability. Since Audino also has access to Heal Bell as well, Chansey/Blissey aren't even the only ones capable of quickly removing status. While Chansey/Blissey still have the edge in Seismic Toss and Softboiled for faster recovery, Audino seems the better pick for team support.
I could also see Gourgeist becoming a huge threat, now that it has enough speed and special attack to make the best use of its movepool. Gourgeist can run its traditional defending set, a physical offensive set, a special offensive set, or even a mixed offense set. The variety and depth of Gourgeist's movepool makes it highly unpredictable, and capable of filling nearly any role you may want.
Anything with Quiver Dance can now effectively run a bulky set. Most notably, Volcarona's bulky set has been drastically improved. Vivillon also benefits tremendously from the increase in defenses, and Compoundeyes Sleep Powder/Hurricane only makes her more threatening. Lilligant may also see an increase in play, thanks to Leech Seed or Giga Drain drastically improving her recovery.
Clefable has already been mentioned, but let's not forget Sigilyph. It's usual Cosmic Power set now becomes even stronger thanks to improved stats all around.
Lastly, I can see Audino doing very well now. With Chansey and Blissey taking such a massive hit to their HP and Special Defense, a Regenerating Wish Passer has greater survivability. Since Audino also has access to Heal Bell as well, Chansey/Blissey aren't even the only ones capable of quickly removing status. While Chansey/Blissey still have the edge in Seismic Toss and Softboiled for faster recovery, Audino seems the better pick for team support.
Mawile can go special Sheer Force, too, with Flash Cannon, Ice Beam, Flamethrower, Fire Blast, Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, and Focus Blast, but no good way to boost its Special Attack.
I haven't tried it yet, but I was theorymoning a Weakness Policy+Simple+Stored Power Swoobat set. It would need Unawaremons gone, though.
I haven't tried it yet, but I was theorymoning a Weakness Policy+Simple+Stored Power Swoobat set. It would need Unawaremons gone, though.
Or you could go with good ol' Simple Numel with Flame Charge to boost its speed and Iron Head to nail the most common Unaware mon, Clefable. And it gets Growth, too. Sure, Quagsire is a problem, but with enough HP investment it should be able to get off two STAB EQs in the sun. Or you could run HP Grass. Might not kill though, unless it has some SpA investment. Don't think EQ hits any important Unaware mons.
JS sap sipper marill shits on breloom, it has the offenses to use scald/play rough uninvested.
Technically though, Stone Edge isn't boosted by Tough Claws which leaves Barbaracle with Razor Shell - boosted by Tough Claws, that is 97.5 BP. Guess what's stronger? Cloyster's Icicle Spear, at 125. So it has the strongest attack to abuse Shell Smash with. Granted, it's Razor Shell is weaker than Barbaracle's, but when you compare them - Cloyster has a 125 BP Ice STAB and a 75 BP Water STAB, while Barbaracle has a 100 BP Rock STAB and a 97.5 BP Water STAB. So it's stronger. Plus the fact that Cloyster mostly uses Hydro Pump over Razor Shell anyway.
You missed one. Talonflame.
Speaking of Talonflame, that thing is a monster in this meta. Not only is it more powerful, but also bulkier, meaning it can set up much easier. A +2 Sharp Beak Brave Bird OHKO's neutral 252/0's. Talonflame is easily one of the best sweepers in this meta, and is definitely something you need to prepare for.
Talonflame is an absolute pain, he's the reason why I use Rock-Arceus, who walls it very well and can OHKO it with Judgment.
Truly...I find it comical that we might actually see a potentially viable physical set for Blissey. I thought I'd never see the light of day where such anomaly will run freely in a metagame! Well anyways, I really like the idea behind this meta as it gives almost every Pokemon a chance to shine. Some Pokemon sports competitive potential through their movepool and abilities but is hampered by a poor stat distribution. But here, now that all the stats are prearranged at a relatively nice 100, it somehow puts all Pokemon at middle grounds and it is solely up to a combination of their moves, abilities, and as well as the user's creativity to make a Pokemon stand out from the crowd. Yep, it really opens up an array of possibilities to pave way for a more diverse metagame.
Now as for potential threats, I find some of the Pokemon below to be interesting and might fair well in this meta.
Let me take you to a journey.
Offensive
Defensive, Bulky Stat Boosters, etc.
Somewhat Gimmicky
Now as for potential threats, I find some of the Pokemon below to be interesting and might fair well in this meta.
Let me take you to a journey.
Offensive
- Protean Kecleon@Life Orb [Nasty Plot / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam / (Shadow Ball/Fire Blast)]
- Hydration Swanna@Life Orb [Rain Dance / Surf / Hurricane / Rest]
- Sheer Force Mawile@Life Orb [Play Rough / Fire Blast / Iron head / Focus Blast] Gawd, if you manage to pass a Shell Smash boost to this monster, you can freely go hog wild.
- Iron Fist Pangoro@Choice Scarf/Band [Sky Uppercut / Crunch / Earthquake / Parting Shot]
- Adaptability Dragalge@Choice Specs [Draco Meteor / Sludge Wave / Focus Blast / (Hydro Pump/Dragon Pulse)]
- Solid Rock/Sturdy Carracosta@Weakness Policy [Shell Smash / Aqua Jet / Waterfall / Stone Edge]
- Water Absorb Jellicent@Choice Scarf/Specs [Water Spout / Shadow Ball / Ice Beam / (Energy Ball/Surf)]
- Frisk Gourgeist@Leftovers / Choice Scarf/Specs [(Substitute/Fire Blast) / (Disable/Focus Blast) / Shadow Ball / Energy Ball]
- Hustle Rufflet@Choice Scarf/Band [Brave Bird / Return / Superpower / U-Turn]
- Swift Swim Surskit@Life Orb [Rain Dance / Hydro Pump / Signal Beam / Ice Beam]
- Arena Trap Trapinch@Choice Band [Earthquake / Superpower / Crunch / Rock Slide]
Defensive, Bulky Stat Boosters, etc.
- Poison Touch Dragalge@Black Sludge [Rest / Sleep Talk / Dragon Tail / (Sludge Bomb/Poison Tail)]
- Frisk Gourgeist@Leftovers [Substitute / Disable / (Leech Seed/Will-o-Wisp/Toxic) / (Protect/Shadow Ball)]
- Unburden Driblim@Chesto Berry [Calm Mind / Shadow Ball / HP Fighting / Rest]
- Magic Guard/Unaware Clefable@Leftovers [Stealth Rock / Moonblast / Heal Bell / Softboiled]
- Cloud Nine Lickilicky@Leftovers [Rest / Sleep Talk / Body Slam / Dragon Tail]
- Cloud Nine Altaria@Leftovers [Dragon Pulse / Heal Bell / Perish Song / Roost]
- Flash Fire Entei@Assault Vest [Sacred Fire / Stone Edge / Knock Off / Extremespeed]
- Rain Dish Surskit@Leftovers [Substitute / Toxic / Protect / Scald]
- Trace Porygon2@Leftovers [Tri Attack / Discharge / Ice Beam / Recover]
- Poison Heal Shroomish@Toxic Orb [Spore / Leech Seed / Substitute / Giga Drain]
Somewhat Gimmicky
- Cheek Pouch Dedenne@Salac Berry [Substitute / Charge Beam / Thunderbolt / HP Ice]
- Serene Grace Meloetta@Life Orb [Hone Claws / Close Combat / Relic Song / Thunder]
- Contrary Malamar@Light Clay [Reflect / Light Screen / Topsy Turvy / Night Slash]
- Natural Cure Chansey@Leftovers [Power-up Punch / Return / Earthquake / Softboiled]
Some cool sets here, but Breloom really outclasses Shroomish as a subseeder thanks to low sweep. Low Sweep lets it outspeed and subseed on everything that isn't immune to Grass.
Chansey (F) @ Lucky Punch
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spd
Adamant Nature
- Headbutt
- Rock Slide
- Thunder Wave
- Soft-Boiled
60% flinches, 50% critical hits. Sorry Dunsparce.
But seriously though, Chansey is a real bitch to play against. Whether or not it outclasses Dunsparce is another matter entirely; Dunsparce gets Glare to Paralyse ground-types, and can boost up with Coil.
Arcticblast edit: totally stealing this .gif
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But seriously though, Chansey is a real bitch to play against. Whether or not it outclasses Dunsparce is another matter entirely; Dunsparce gets Glare to Paralyse ground-types, and can boost up with Coil.
Arcticblast edit: totally stealing this .gif
Chansey also gets Body Slam...gg Groudon.
Common Pokemon noobs will use: Talonflame (A really good mon, but very easy to use, making it attractive for newer players, additionally, it's an offensive maniac, 90% of players don't care about stall and think it's not the right way to play.) Various ubers will be used such as Blaziken, cool looking / HO Pokemon in general.
That Blissey set is strong, I think all stall (maybe even offense teams) should carry a Breloom or any other anti-status Pokemon.
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Solar Power is going to be extremely dangerous in this game. Nasty Plot Ninetales combined with Scarf Solar Power Charizard, who now has the bulk to sustain hits and isn't utterly outclassed in speed, will be incredibly dangerous. Tropius, Sunflora, and Heliolisk will also be incredibly dangerous with their recovery attacks, though they will lack the boost from sun.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Lucky Punch only raises the critical hit ratio by two levels? So by default, Headbutt and Rock slide would have a critical hit ratio of 6.25%. Now factoring in Lucky Punch, it lets it go up to 25%.
But chances to crit will inevitably rise as you continually flinch with Chansey, so...
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First stage: 6.25%
Second Stage: 12.5%
Third Stage: 25%
Crits changed in Gen 6. Now it's:
First stage: 6.25%
Second stage: 12.5%
Third stage: 50%
Fourth stage: 100%
(No I don't think Chansey gets Focus Energy lol)
Dayum.
Well, I better start thinking of counters and checks to this potential threat. Things that come to mind are just about any Pokemon that are faster and doesn't mind being paralyzed or are immune to critical hits. That includes electric types, (Rotom is a hard counter), ground types, and Pokemon with Limber, Lightningrod, Volt Absorb, Motor Drive, Volt Absorb (Lanturn and Jolteon), Battle Armor, or Shell Armor (Torterra seems like a decent counter).
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