No buddy, Mega Mawile can only potentially sweep with Sucker Punch, which completely gets you shut down by walls or stallers. Mega Mawile's power and terribad speed is used the same way as Azumarill, a wall breaker.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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No buddy, Mega Mawile can only potentially sweep with Sucker Punch, which completely gets you shut down by walls or stallers. Mega Mawile's power and terribad speed is used the same way as Azumarill, a wall breaker.
Oh yeah I forgot Sableye and Rotom-Wash have infiltrator.
Sub is an option over EQ or Bullet seed(I'd remove bullet seed but I prefer the coverage in most situations). Not every Hera has to run Sub.
True but I prefer it because of how useful it is. I prefer having the great utility of Substitute over a bit of aditional coverage, for which I can make up with teammates. Just a preference.
Most Mawile use intimidate and their best defensive typing combined with sucker punch to sweep. I've seen it work very well most of the time.
Can we slow down with the posting a tiny bit it's hard to keep up on an iPhone :P
Eh sure. I honestly think Mega Pinsir wishes it was a tiny bit faster as it is easy to slap it from the special side with
T-bolts
True I think it is good where it is in the rankings tho. I honestly think we shouldn't discuss it if we think it's in a good place.
There's something called sarcasm. Sableye doesn't actually get Infiltrator lol.
Mega Heracross's problems are that its bulk, while better than many Pokemon (even some defensive ones), is not backed by Leftovers, and if it runs Close Combat it might as well not have the bulk. Without Close Combat, its only way through Steels are Earthquake and Arm Thrust. Arm Thrust is horribly weak and Earthquake is weaker than Arm Thrust, and doesn't really provide much meaningful coverage. It also cannot run any items to boost that Base 185 Attack. Its bulk is also not that great when you realize that its weaknesses, namely Flying, Psychic, and Fire, are very common in OU. It's not just Talonflame, but also Skarmory, Crobat, Alakazam, Latios, Latias, Starmie, Heatran, Charizard, and everything that uses Fire as a coverage move (pretty much all the Dragons, HP Fire Gengar/Alakazam/Latios/Latias) can force out Mega Heracross easily. Some of them can't switch in safely, but a slow U-Turn or Volt Switch can patch that, as can double switches.
Mega Heracross can also be walled. Its power is really nothing new (CB Heracross hits harder), it's just the coverage. Gliscor and Skarmory don't care about anything Mega Heracross can do, Steels in general wall it if it doesn't run Close Combat (Arm Thrust makes it gigantic Ferrothorn bait), and if it does it loses its bulk. Rotom-W can outspeed and WoW, it just can't take Bullet Punch that well. Intimidate in general neuters it, making it easier to take hits from it.
Mega Heracross is good at forcing mons out and damaging mons, it just has shortcomings. It's fine in B+ or B.
How does that aid it aside hitting Genesect/Lucario for neutral damage? He out-speeds and kills most fighting/grass types, so really a flying type quick attack doesn't help him all that much aside a quick priority, which many pokemon have, and while nice, is nothing special. And it's killed by Talonflame. MPinsir is fine in A, maybe A+ worthy too considering it's a monster when it sets up SD, and has mold breaker on its previous evo that has a base 125 Atk and access to EQ.
With hera I meant that its more suspect to burns than other megas. Lucario is viable on both sides, garchomp can run mixed, pinsir has priority, absol has magic bounce etc.
Agreed. 105 speed isn't what it used to be. If it were 110 that would be nice but oh well, not like 105 is bad.
EQ lets it screw Aegislash over and get poison types. Rotom-W cannot switch in if it carries Bullet seed and if mega Hera isn't carrying bullet seed it is likely running sun which makes it immune to status, so Rotom-W is rarely a problem. And while fire is pretty common in OU, the average HP fire/psychics cannot force it out as it can easily kill majority of the mons you said minus Charizard(analytic starmie 3HKOs with Hera having 252 HP and none of the pokemon besides Charizard can actually OHKO without being Ko'd back.)(not sure about fire blast heatran)
Edit:skarmories with BB win and so does crobat, but why would you stay in on a crobat?
I won't put calcs for what Hera can do back to the psychics because it's pretty fucking obvious he can OHKO any psychic type. Except maybe metagross.
252 SpA Starmie Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Heracross: 118-139 (32.4 - 38.1%) -- 96% chance to 3HKO(it did factor in analytic and ice beam does do less)
252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Heracross: 288-342 (79.1 - 93.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 304-359 (83.5 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Latias Psyshock vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 206-246 (56.5 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
4 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Heracross: 206-246 (56.5 - 67.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Heatran: 596-704 (154.4 - 182.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Gliscor: 130-155 (36.7 - 43.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 46-54 (12.6 - 14.8%) -- possible 7HKO
Gliscor dies before toxic kills Hera.
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That's all fine, but its SE-coverage is kinda lacking. Also, 185 base attack isn't super-amazing when you consider he's losing out on an item. Wearing him down isn't too hard due to a bad defensive typing and his sluggishness. Many physically bulky Pokemon, such as Landorus-T and Gourgeist, can take an attack or two while messing with his attack stat through burns or Intimidate. Idk, I just find Mega Hera rather easy to handle, he's not bad by any means, but he's nowhere near a top-tier threat atm.
Think your looking at mainly pre-bank threats. Poke-bank brings a slew of more things all mega's are gonna have to adjust to deal with. Tornadus, Genesect, Entei (probably rise in usage due to sacred fire), Infernape. Also, it's OHKO'd by Togekiss with little SpA investment:
4 SpA Togekiss Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Heracross: 364-432 (100 - 118.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Granted, if Hera runs speed and the togekiss doesn't then MHera can OHKO with rock blast. I'd say Mhera is a solid B, at most an B+. There are many better wallbreakers that are also faster. While bulky, it's not really good considering it does nothing to support its bulk aside from substitute.
If it isn't carrying a Fighting-type move, it's giant Ferrothorn bait. If it is, chances are it's Close Combat, which pretty much gets rid of your bulk. If a Latios or Latias switches in on a Close Combat or Bullet Seed, it easily destroys Hera. Rotom-W can switch in on anything but Bullet Seed and threaten WoW. Heatran can switch in on anything but EQ or Close Combat. And...well...it's not too hard to predict, because against certain mons a misprediction is death for Hera (Starmie for example).
Mega Heracross running 252 HP easily gets outsped, and as such can be worn down somewhat quickly, and KOed by strong moves. Togekiss, for example, destroys you when you don't run Speed. EQ is also not worth running just for Aegislash, and the relevant Poison-types in OU right now are Gengar, Venusaur, Tentacruel and Roserade. All of them are hit just as hard or harder by its other moves, barring Tentacruel which falls to Bullet Seed anyways.
In reality, lots of things can force Mega Heracross out, and they can switch in somewhat easily too (IE: Ferrothorn->Latios, slow U-Turns), and they can proceed to nuke your next switchin from there, or gain momentum, or whatever.
you could just go 252HP/204atk/52spe to out run something like max speed holy Azumarril and togekisses to solve some speed problems. And Ferro and latios are smashed by Hera
204+ Atk Mega Heracross Pin Missile (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 170-210 (48.2 - 59.6%) -- approx. 73% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
The 204 Atk is using the above EV spread for refrence. If it's the odd rocky helm then Ferro is always going to die instantly.
Ferro can simply Leech Seed you if you lack Close Combat. Latios can get a free switchin from a Ferrothorn luring Close Combat (hopefully after they realize Pin Missile isn't doing much), or from a bulky Water luring Bullet Seed, and nuke something on your team with Draco Meteor. Similarly, the other mons that force Hera out can get free switches from such lures.
You don't run CC on Hera because 1. It gives you literally nothing that you can't already hit
2. EQ actually gives you more stuff to hit and it removes Aegislash as a counter
3. Pin missle kills Ferro anyway. Ferro lures pin missles not Fighting moves.
4. CC cuts your bulk
And whoever mentioned infernape it only checks
204+ Atk Mega Heracross Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Infernape: 404-476 (137.8 - 162.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
This exactly. I don't personally see the point of running CC unless to, what, hit tyranitar and Bisharp for 4x?
There's a reason you have a team, you know. Also, Ferrothorn is an excellent pivot to Charizard and Talonflame because no sane Mega Heracross player will Rock Blast a Ferrothorn. It's also a good pivot to Heatran if you don't run Close Combat.
Most people run CC on Hera. If Hera has CC Ferro lures it.
Once you force out Hera (rather simple), it has to take hazards damage and everything, so it's easy to wear down and finish off later. As a bonus, you get free damage on the other team's other mons.
It is not simple to force out hera, as it can utterly destroy most of the things you are describing. Even with CC Pin missle will still be lured because of the fact it has more total base power and is the safer option over CC. If you see a latios in the sidelines and you 2HKO with both moves and one cuts your bulk then naturally you should pick the one that doesn't cut. and heatran gets stomped by EQ.
With Leech Seed and Protect, Ferro can stall out Pin Missile Hera for a while. Without CC, Heatran has an easy switch in from Ferrothorn, and threatens with an immediate OHKO unless it is a defensive variant.
Mega Heracross - B
Mega Heracross is a very dangerous wallbreaker/bulk sweeper that can perform its offensive niche with incredible power. However, Mega Heracross's relatively mediocre defensive typing, mediocre base speed, and lack of priority to help bypass its speed severely hinder it, thus leaving it outclassed by Mega Mawile, which has the best defensive typing, comparable bulk, much more power, and very powerful priority to bypass its inferior speed. Because of the fact that Mega Mawile(an A rank) just partially outperforms Mega Heracross, it falls perfectly under the B rank for the aforementioned reasons.
Do we have an agreement on this?
Mega Heracross is a very dangerous wallbreaker/bulk sweeper that can perform its offensive niche with incredible power. However, Mega Heracross's relatively mediocre defensive typing, mediocre base speed, and lack of priority to help bypass its speed severely hinder it, thus leaving it outclassed by Mega Mawile, which has the best defensive typing, comparable bulk, much more power, and very powerful priority to bypass its inferior speed. Because of the fact that Mega Mawile(an A rank) just partially outperforms Mega Heracross, it falls perfectly under the B rank for the aforementioned reasons.
Do we have an agreement on this?
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Nominating Froslass for A-
As it is, while outclassed by Deoxys-S, one of the most amazing Spikers, good amount of speed, unpredictable, versatile, fast Destiny Bond, fast Taunt, and can run T-Wave to get "Free turns". It also can run some quite gimmicky sets such as T-Wave + Hex; it also is the second best Sub-Disable user after Gengar, except that Froslass can use the free turns for setting spikes.
I think Froslass fits greatly here, it does give the opponent free turns using Spikes, it cannot create free turns easily, but it can still do it, between T-Wave, Disable, Switcheroo, and Taunt, it can easily set up minimum of 2 layers of spikes thnx to Focus Sash, it may be completely flat out stopped by faster taunt, but outside of Crobat, it is faster than all the pokemons that would taunt/defog as regular bases.
Froslass can switcheroo it's scarf to gain a free turns, it can taunt the pokemons setting up, he has to switch so that's a 1 turn, it can disable a choiced pokemons so that's also a free turn, So Disable/Switcheroo/Taunt/Spikes can put 3 layers of spikes. Even though it loses it's focus Sash, it is a bit risky.
OR you can have Taunt/Disable/T-Wave/Spikes w/ Focus Sash, you can also layer 3 layers of spikes.
of course, you can use Froslass for support and just taking down at least 1 pokemons from the opponent, with T-Wave/Disable/Destiny Bond/Taunt or Spikes, you are either setting minimum 2 layers of spikes, crippling foes, making your pokemons faster (T-Wave), or taking minimum 1 pokemon down thnx to fast speed or Destiny Knot.
As it is, while outclassed by Deoxys-S, one of the most amazing Spikers, good amount of speed, unpredictable, versatile, fast Destiny Bond, fast Taunt, and can run T-Wave to get "Free turns". It also can run some quite gimmicky sets such as T-Wave + Hex; it also is the second best Sub-Disable user after Gengar, except that Froslass can use the free turns for setting spikes.
I think Froslass fits greatly here, it does give the opponent free turns using Spikes, it cannot create free turns easily, but it can still do it, between T-Wave, Disable, Switcheroo, and Taunt, it can easily set up minimum of 2 layers of spikes thnx to Focus Sash, it may be completely flat out stopped by faster taunt, but outside of Crobat, it is faster than all the pokemons that would taunt/defog as regular bases.
Froslass can switcheroo it's scarf to gain a free turns, it can taunt the pokemons setting up, he has to switch so that's a 1 turn, it can disable a choiced pokemons so that's also a free turn, So Disable/Switcheroo/Taunt/Spikes can put 3 layers of spikes. Even though it loses it's focus Sash, it is a bit risky.
OR you can have Taunt/Disable/T-Wave/Spikes w/ Focus Sash, you can also layer 3 layers of spikes.
of course, you can use Froslass for support and just taking down at least 1 pokemons from the opponent, with T-Wave/Disable/Destiny Bond/Taunt or Spikes, you are either setting minimum 2 layers of spikes, crippling foes, making your pokemons faster (T-Wave), or taking minimum 1 pokemon down thnx to fast speed or Destiny Knot.
Nominating Exploud for C+ or even B- rank. Boomburst Exploud is one of the strongest wallbreakers in the game, so that's why it has been viable. Honestly, it works better in practice then on paper. Boomburst hits ridiculously hard and now that sound based moves hit through the Substitute, it is probably the best check to Gliscor right now which many physical sweepers like Dragonite struggle with. It can also 2HKO specially defensive behemoths like Assault vest Goodra, Florges, and other Pokemon. It OHKOes the whole tier with little hazard support. Toss in Tailwind and it will not dissapoint. Read the B Tier description it could fit in. Choice Specs is the only set you should use. It also has pretty nice bulk as well, so it can tank some hits. I'll add up later, but for now, I'd like to see some discussion.
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