No it cannot. It dies on the attack turn if it doesn't switch and if it switches the switch in will get chunked.
I will say Mega Heracross is B+ minimum.
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Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)
- Thread starter ginganinja
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I will say Mega Heracross is B+ minimum.
This is true because you run Earthquake.
It's simple, Ground hits Rock, Steel, Poison and Fire and fire can all ready be hit by Rock Blast
Fighting hits Rock, Steel, Dark, Ice and Normal and Ice can also be hit woth Rock Blast.
Well, they're so similar in coverage, so which is better? That depends on how you look at it, simply. You might say that Close Combat is obviously a better choice because of the power it brings but the problem is Aegislash. Aegislash, that one single pokemon is the reason you run Earthquake. You might argue that it's worth it because Aegislash is so incredibly common, but you also have something we call a team. Your team can take care of Aegislash too. When determining which coverage is better, in all honesty CC is all around the better option, not the other way around.
But if you want both CC and EQ, you might actually want to consider ditching Pin Missle because, let's be honest, it's only used because it's STAB and doesn't have the negative effects of CC. Pin Missle provides very minimal coverage, hitting only Grass, Dark, and Psychic, when Fighting takes care of Dark anyways and both of Psychic and Grass are very uncommon and can be taken care of woth teammates, so if you're only using 3 attacks MHera and you really REALLY want to hit Aegislash you can use CC and EQ, dropping Pin Missle for EQ. Personally, my favorite MHera set is CC, Rock Blast, EQ, and Sub.
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Um...Pin Missile only 2HKOes...unless Ferrothorn is switching into Hera, in which case it is probably switching into a predicted Rock Blast.
But B+ is something we can agree on. It's good, but it has shortcomings.
Pin missle lets you smash common psychic mons that can't actually OHKO Hera. And one of the main reason besides aegi for not using CC is that it cuts your bulk (and if you run EQ you don't fear mispredicteing into a KS or iron barbs, as you will lack contact moves. I'd rather have an ultra powerful stab that lets me hit more types and not get walled by more rather than CC which is a weaker stab that doesn 't cut sashes and hit through subs and cuts your bulk.
If you actually read my post you would realize I just said all of that........
I thought you were implying CC was superior as a stab on mega heracross to pin missle. And you were suggesting absolutely butchering hera's coverage
I think SubPunch Mega Heracross is a great wallbreaker.
Heracross @ Heracronite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
Enough speed to avoid W-o-W from 0 speed Rotom-W. If it's a faster variant (always possible) then you can do work with Guts for a couple of turns instead. Focus Punch from Mega Heracross is a 2HKO against Skarmory. I'm pretty sure that after SR you knock it out too by following up with Rock Blast if it goes for Brave Bird. This set has excellent coverage, and pokes like Landorus-T and Gliscor actually fail to break its Sub with the standard defensive sets with EQ and U-turn/Toxic. I'd say this is A material, just because it's such a great lure and wallbreaker and offers great raw power which is almost impossible to counter.
Heracross @ Heracronite
Trait: Guts
EVs: 152 HP / 252 Atk / 104 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Substitute
- Focus Punch
- Earthquake
- Rock Blast
Enough speed to avoid W-o-W from 0 speed Rotom-W. If it's a faster variant (always possible) then you can do work with Guts for a couple of turns instead. Focus Punch from Mega Heracross is a 2HKO against Skarmory. I'm pretty sure that after SR you knock it out too by following up with Rock Blast if it goes for Brave Bird. This set has excellent coverage, and pokes like Landorus-T and Gliscor actually fail to break its Sub with the standard defensive sets with EQ and U-turn/Toxic. I'd say this is A material, just because it's such a great lure and wallbreaker and offers great raw power which is almost impossible to counter.
I would like to nominate Tentacruel for C. While I feel like this gen in particular was hard on it, it's still got a relatively nice niche in its typing and movepool. With an assault vest, Tentacruel becomes a pretty Tentacool mixed wall, and Gengar has difficulty breaking it. The buff to poison typing, as well as his access to Rapid Spin and Knock Off gives it a cool niche that others fail to pull. It's one of the few rapid spinners that can burn, poison, and spin all comfortably on the same set. It may not be as grand as it was in the hayday of Politoed, but I feel like it would sure be Tentacruel to at least not mention it.
These are some okay points, I just played a few rounds on PS and my Mamoswine OHKOd 3 different Aegislash while they were in shield form using Earthquake. 252+ Atk LO Mamoswine is what I used if anyone wants to do calcs... Anyways, I think calling him predictable is unfair, he has 150 Base in both attack types, and he has good STAB coverage on both ends of the spectrum, meaning he can run Physical, Special, or Mixed offensive sets, leaving you to have to figure out what type of set he is running. Common Taunters also don't threaten him too much, the only one I can think of would be Gliscor but why would he be in against a Gliscor if he isn't using special coverage?
Since when did you get the authority to decide this? If we still think there is more to discuss (I dunno maybe someone wants to talk about the subpunch set) we can unless a mod/admin/whatever says we cannot.
To be fair, that's pretty much one of the most powerful Earthquakes in the metagame, and it still almost takes it, also taking into consideration that Jolly Mamo only has a 50% chance to OHKO
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Aegislash: 330-390 (101.85 - 120.37%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Edit: Good lord people, it's been 2 pages are you still ranting about Mega-Cross?
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Are you using the same calculator as me? :x
252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 187-220 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Sorry I forgot to mention I used ferrothorn as a placeholder with a ghost/steel typing since Aegislash isn't on the Honkacalculator. Edited it now.
Showdown has its own 6th gen damage calculator you know, you can find it here: http://pokemonshowdown.com/damagecalc/
The thing is tho, running mixed give it less bulk, running a Special also isn't that great (Special nerf this gen) Plus it gets walled by assault vest users. Then we have Pure offensive, those sets are also not very got, it loses king shield, and if it doesn't have that anything that survives a +2 shadow sneak (alot of things) KO's it back. Sure it is a great Pokemon but it does need Some support, And everything else in The rank S needs less than Aegislash. It has checks and Counters that are very common to. Now, I love Aegislash don't get me wrong, but it should be A+ -. Sure, I could say the weakness thing about Genesect to, but honestly that atleast can outspeed most of it's threat and KO them or Uturn out. Aegislash has decent speed after automotize but then gets walled by pokemon that resist it.
Thanks for the heads up. Forgot that even existed.
Usually I don't prey on the weak. Things change, however.
I can't help but feel you haven't gotten out of the 1500s in the PS! ladder. Aegislash is one of the most versatile threats in this meta at the moment, with the ability to run an extremely powerful mix set. With access to some of the most CRUMBLING capabilities ever, Aegislash is probably the second most dangerous threat next to the overpowered mega evolutions like kanga, gengar, and blaziken. Its incredible bulk when in shield form and the ability of king's shield that lowers the attack stat by 2 stages if attacked by a contact move is INCREDIBLY over powered. This thing has a place in UBERS as well as I've seen a few friends running toxic aegi with gyro ball to beat (not a puny phione but) the damn Xerneas that has absolutely WRECKED the ubers metagame. Sorry If i seemed a little harsh, but Aegi should stay at S rank.
Can we discuss Avalugg? I think he has serious potential for OU. People say his Ice-typing makes him tough to use, but he has a lot of good things going for him. STAB Avalanche combined with his enormous physical bulk and great Attack gives him a slight offensive presence, while he also offers Rapid Spin to remove hazards, which can make a game completely different in the end. His flaw here is that he himself is weak to SR and if all hazards are up on your side, this thing is at 50% HP if it switches in completely healthy. It does, however, have Recover to heal off damage and he can switch into a multitude of threats. He also doesn't need to rely on stalling for passive damage, thanks again to his base 117 Attack stat. He is outclassed as a spinner/blower (my name for a defogger is a blower...) by Excadrill, Skarmory, and others that boast a much better typing, but his ability to deal good chunks of damage while also being able to heal off any damage he takes on the physical side is good. So considering his downsides are his poor special bulk and typing, I'd have to rate Avalugg as B-
Here are some calcs with Avalugg taking and dealing damage:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 260-308 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 190-230 (48.2 - 58.3%) -- approx. 40.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 154-182 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 133-156 (33.7 - 39.5%) -- 13.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
These calcs show that even Megas with Super Effective STABs against him fall short of an OHKO. Obviously he falls to most neutral special attacks, but he takes physical hits very well and he has Avalanche to retaliate after taking a hit. In fact:
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 198-234 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock ----- The -1 Def considers he used CC
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 254-302 (83 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 356-422 (135.8 - 161%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Here are some calcs with Avalugg taking and dealing damage:
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 260-308 (65.9 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Mega Heracross Rock Blast (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 190-230 (48.2 - 58.3%) -- approx. 40.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 222-264 (56.3 - 67%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Huge Power Mega Mawile Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 228-270 (57.8 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Strong Jaw Tyrantrum Fire Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 154-182 (39 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Life Orb Technician Breloom Mach Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 133-156 (33.7 - 39.5%) -- 13.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
These calcs show that even Megas with Super Effective STABs against him fall short of an OHKO. Obviously he falls to most neutral special attacks, but he takes physical hits very well and he has Avalanche to retaliate after taking a hit. In fact:
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. -1 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Heracross: 198-234 (54.3 - 64.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock ----- The -1 Def considers he used CC
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyrantrum: 254-302 (83 - 98.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after 3 layers of Spikes
4 Atk Avalugg Avalanche vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 356-422 (135.8 - 161%) -- guaranteed OHKO
But what defines an A+ vs. an A? I'd think Mega-Y is more viable than Mega-X, so my natural inclination would be to put Mega Y at A+ and Mega X a A
I think Avalugg is, by definition, a C+. Avalugg requires teammates to deal with special attackers and Stealth Rocks severely squander its bulk, but if you have both of that on your team, it's flippin amazing.
But maybe a B- because of this
Which definition do you guys think is more appropriate for Avalugg?
I supposed it would be a good idea to compare him to similar pokemon of a C or B rank.
But maybe a B- because of this
Which definition do you guys think is more appropriate for Avalugg?
I supposed it would be a good idea to compare him to similar pokemon of a C or B rank.
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Avalugg's cool, but I still don't think he's B material. C maybe, but he requires too much support, and ice typing is really...REALLY bad typing. He's basically the Blissey of this gen, except with a worse typing.
I would argue that Malamar deserves C. Topsy-Turvy and Contrary Superpower are both truly amazing moves, and Contrary has other niche uses as well such as foiling King's Shield (taking away Aegislash's one option for handling Malamar, leaving it helpless) and Sticky Web. Obviously it's held back by bad stats and typing but it has its uses.
I think Galvantula might need to be moved down to C+ though. It's too fragile to do much more than set up Sticky Web and then die, and many teams can defog/spin it away. On top of that, many mons just don't care about Sticky Web in the first place. SR is a much more useful hazard and there are much better SR setters that contribute a lot more to a team than Galvantula does.
I think Galvantula might need to be moved down to C+ though. It's too fragile to do much more than set up Sticky Web and then die, and many teams can defog/spin it away. On top of that, many mons just don't care about Sticky Web in the first place. SR is a much more useful hazard and there are much better SR setters that contribute a lot more to a team than Galvantula does.
It's just too gimmicky and it has an aweful both offensive and defensive typing, not to mention its just all around mediocre stats.
I can assure you that if avalugg was rock type, it would still be terrible.
Guess what? The SD+KS set is not the only Aegislash. There's Bulky mixed attacker, Mixed wallbreaking pivot, Autotomize Weakness Policy, Autotomize Life Orb, SD Weakness Policy, and many more. Autotomize doesn't really care about Burn as it's Specially oriented anyways, and Burn is not going to stop wallbreaker from potentially OHKOing your Sableye or Rotom-W with LO Shadow Ball. Don't even think about Air Balloon, there's better items for it, and unless you are going for Autotomize, you are not sweeping with Aegislash. The bulky SD set works, but it's not really the best option, especially since there's so many ways around it.
Also guess what? If you switch in Rotom-W, I can switch out! Mega Venusaur, Gastrodon, whatever, I don't have to fight Rotom-W or Sableye with Aegislash at all.
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