Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Those advantages mean nothing when Sylveon has higher HP which offsets the Defense argument. Yes, Florges has a higher Special Attack, but only by a small margin, and Sylveon has Pixilate Hyper Voice, which has notably higher power than Moonblast. Florges does learn Aromatherapy, but Sylveon learns Heal Bell, so that point is moot as well. They both have small movepools, and Florges has no advantage movepool wise. All of those advantages are very small and are not enough to justify using Florges over Sylveon.

Anyways, this has been brought up before, but I want to suggest Krookodile to be added to B Rank. This gen just happens to be kind to Dark-types (see: Bisharp and Mandibuzz), and Krookodile is among the numerous Dark-types that have a niche in OU. Krookodile can do quite a bit of work both offensively and defensively thanks to a number of qualities. Firstly, Moxie is an amazing ability, and Ground / Dark coverage is very good. The Knock Off buff helps Krookodile a lot, which gives it a stronger Dark STAB to hit those who are weak to Dark fairly hard, along with the awesome effect of removing items. The Defense boost does help Krookodile a bit, so now it can actually survive weaker physical hits in the event that such is necessary. Krookodile's Speed isn't terrible, and it can overall perform pretty well as a great sweeper. Defensively, Krookodile performs decently there as well, since Intimidate is also a very good ability, and the defense buff along with the prominence of Ghosts like Aegislash allow Krookodile to go defensive in this meta. Taunt and Stealth Rock are both very good moves, which Krookodile can use well, and it can also beat most variants of Aegislash thanks to its passable bulk and typing. Earthquake off of a good 117 Attack also gives it a bit of offensive presence, so it's not a complete sitting duck. For these reasons I feel Krookodile is a very viable mon and I feel it definitely deserves a spot on this list.

 

[Star]

Yeah it needs Defog support as it switches a lot but the same goes for Genesect which is clearly S rank.

 

[Pipotchi]

Howabout Cofagrigus for B- or C tier? Its a good defensive mon who is able to reliably deal with a lot of physical pokemon and take aay the important abilities gained by mega evolutions. He also has a small niche as a toxic spiker + spinblocker with hex, and can set up trick room for his own sweep or someone elses. That gives him quite a lot of versatility as all of these sets do something different, while his ability remains a reliable check to physical threats like azumarill no matter what his set is. Ghost types got a lot better this gen and so did Cofagrigus.

Also does Barbaracle not have a use in ou right now? I see neither him nor Cloyster on the list, despite them both being pretty decent offensive pokemon. They both have access to shell smash, and high base power attacks due to their abilities, and I believe Cloyster also has access to all entry hazards, which has to be worth something.

 

[Star]

Cofagrigus is at best only C rank because of Aegislash's popularity in OU. Shadow Balls scare Cofagrigus from coming in. It needs a lot of support to work properly in the metagame as it is beaten by extremely common pokemon.

 

[Pipotchi]

Cofagrigus is at best only C rank because of Aegislash's popularity in OU. Shadow Balls scare Cofagrigus from coming in. It needs a lot of support to work properly in the metagame as it is beaten by extremely common pokemon.

Why would Cofagrigus switch into Aegislash? Also can you list in particular the physical threats that beat Cofagrigus, just to back up your point?

 

[Ryolain]

I'd say Skarmory also has the niche of being the one true counter to MP

Howabout Cofagrigus for B- or C tier? Its a good defensive mon who is able to reliably deal with a lot of physical pokemon and take aay the important abilities gained by mega evolutions. He also has a small niche as a toxic spiker + spinblocker with hex, and can set up trick room for his own sweep or someone elses. That gives him quite a lot of versatility as all of these sets do something different, while his ability remains a reliable check to physical threats like azumarill no matter what his set is. Ghost types got a lot better this gen and so did Cofagrigus.

Also does Barbaracle not have a use in ou right now? I see neither him nor Cloyster on the list, despite them both being pretty decent offensive pokemon. They both have access to shell smash, and high base power attacks due to their abilities, and I believe Cloyster also has access to all entry hazards, which has to be worth something.

Both of those Shell Smashers are pretty much one-trick ponies. They're really obvious, especially Cloyster. It's also absurdly outclassed as a hazard setter.

 

[Scytha Gang]

Florges. Is. Not. Being. Ranked.

Florges has better stats, and can perform

Howabout Cofagrigus for B- or C tier? Its a good defensive mon who is able to reliably deal with a lot of physical pokemon and take aay the important abilities gained by mega evolutions. He also has a small niche as a toxic spiker + spinblocker with hex, and can set up trick room for his own sweep or someone elses. That gives him quite a lot of versatility as all of these sets do something different, while his ability remains a reliable check to physical threats like azumarill no matter what his set is. Ghost types got a lot better this gen and so did Cofagrigus.

Also does Barbaracle not have a use in ou right now? I see neither him nor Cloyster on the list, despite them both being pretty decent offensive pokemon. They both have access to shell smash, and high base power attacks due to their abilities, and I believe Cloyster also has access to all entry hazards, which has to be worth something.

As for Cofagrigus, it's probably best in the C Rank. Because use for Tyranitar has gone up due to it receiving a Mega Evolution, and with more fast attackers in the tier with access to Dark/Ghost moves, Cofagrigus' use is still limited in OU.

As for Barbacle and Cloyster, they are too predictable in OU. Although they can pose some sort of threat in OU after Shell Smash, there are many things in the metagame that can outspeed them after Shell Smash. Electric types and Grass types, both types that Barbaracle and Cloyster are weak too, have gained more OU use this gen due to the buffs they have received (Electric types no longer can be paralyzed by Electric moves, and Grass types can't fall asleep to powder moves). This limits the opportunity for either of them to get up a Shell Smash.

 

[ScraftyIsTheBest]

Cofagrigus is good enough for C-Rank imo. I've brought it up a couple of times before in the thread, but I think it's viable enough to be on the list. It's a pretty good bulky Ghost-type that is also capable of going offensive, and the OTR set is pretty viable from my experiences with it. TR+NP can make Cofagrigus a neat special sweeper, and Cofagrigus is one of the better TR abusers available. The fact that Steel no longer resists Ghost is also a very good thing in Cofagrigus's favor, so it's somewhat more difficult to wall than before, only by the blobs and Tyranitar. Will-O-Wisp is also a pretty cool option even on an offensive Pokemon like Cofagrigus, crippling physical attackers, which helps with Cofagrigus's great physical bulk. Mummy is also a great ability that neuters some abilities of common Pokemon like Azumarill, Talonflame, and Scizor, making them less threatening without such abilities. I'm reluctant in putting it in B- though because it's got a lot of competition from other Ghosts that have more utility, and it has no recovery and is incredibly weak to status and hazards. The ubiquity of Dark-types like Mandibuzz, Bisharp, and Greninja also kind of hinder its performance, so I feel it's a rather niche mon, but I think it's good enough for C.

Also I have never used Barbaracle or Cloyster so I can't comment on them.

 

[Ruffles]

Alright, Crobat, is NOT a pokemon to be banded, in fact NP set is better, but still way too unworthy OU. CROBAT SHOULD NOT BE COMPARED WITH NOIVERN, THEY HAVE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT NICHES.

I have ranked it about C+/B- NOT for being an offensive mon, with a 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe and a Jolly nature, Crobat is outspeeding almost all the unboosted metagame, only few outspeed it, and Jolteon, while not OU viable, is the only one who tie speeds it.

Crobat is very nice with BB, I run a BB-less Crobat though, and it is amazingly good.

The moveset I ran was U-Turn/Defog/Roost/Taunt. Super fast taunt means you are shutting down a very good portion of the metagame. And a fast taunt means you are Taunting very fast pokemons or pokemons with decent speed, a fast taunt was always very valued. U-Turn keeps momentum and has always been a good move, and a VoltTurn strategy around him will work greatly. Mandibuzz can't keep momentum as it cannot afford U-Turn, furthermore, Defog removes not only hazards, but screens too, which will be very valuable, Infilitrator means you can Defog on a Substitute, U-Turn pass screens (If you haven't defogged them), also Toxic is also a good move, bypassing substitute, supporting your sweepers, and you can stall with Roost, this allows your team to pass walls or force many switches. Toxic + Defog + U-Turn is a very good combo, that will wear down a wall, remove the hazards, and U-Turn to your sweeper, Crobat doesn't sweep, it supports, It can also run Torment to cripple slower choice pokemons.

Crobat shouldn't be compared to Talonflame or Noivern. Please don't, crobat is far inferior using a CB set.

And this is from the C&C's OP

"For instance, A spread of 252 HP / 58 SpD / 200 Spe may be more optimal for maximizing bulk for a full utility-based role, though the loss of power in Brave Bird will be significant." "It does not run 252 Spe because the extra Speed does not help it outrun many other relevant threats."

A crobat that has more SpD than Def is always better, as Download users (Genesect & PorygonZ) will use SpA SE moves

252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 58 SpD Crobat: 210-248 (56.1 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 58 SpD Crobat: 226-268 (60.4 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

I think Crobat deserves C+ at the very least, though IMO B- will more ideal, as he is not completely outclassed by Mandibuzz.

EDIT: VenomDrench would be an interesting combo with Toxic too.

 

[myw]

I wouldn't call base 129 defense and 70 hp frail.

I suppose I wouldn't either, but it's not stellar with very little resistances. Factoring that, it's probably switching in at best three times, probably less and more likely to be less with rocks.

Considering switching in is what it wants to do, often, I can't see it pushing the upper bound of B.

 

[SmashBrosBrawl]

Florges has better stats, and can perform

They have the exact same special bulk while sylveon physical bulk is better, has higher hp for wish passing and hits harder due to pixilate hyper voice. Its completely outclassed, no ifs or buts. Seriously lets drop it, its not being ranked, we have been through this already.

 

[Pipotchi]

Yea looking at the other ghosts in the list I think perhaps C is the home for Cofagrigus, just due to having no recovery and issues with dark types.

Alright, Crobat, is NOT a pokemon to be banded, in fact NP set is better, but still way too unworthy OU. CROBAT SHOULD NOT BE COMPARED WITH NOIVERN, THEY HAVE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT NICHES.

I have ranked it about C+/B- NOT for being an offensive mon, with a 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe and a Jolly nature, Crobat is outspeeding almost all the unboosted metagame, only few outspeed it, and Jolteon, while not OU viable, is the only one who tie speeds it.

Crobat is very nice with BB, I run a BB-less Crobat though, and it is amazingly good.

The moveset I ran was U-Turn/Defog/Roost/Taunt. Super fast taunt means you are shutting down a very good portion of the metagame. And a fast taunt means you are Taunting very fast pokemons or pokemons with decent speed, a fast taunt was always very valued. U-Turn keeps momentum and has always been a good move, and a VoltTurn strategy around him will work greatly. Mandibuzz can't keep momentum as it cannot afford U-Turn, furthermore, Defog removes not only hazards, but screens too, which will be very valuable, Infilitrator means you can Defog on a Substitute, U-Turn pass screens (If you haven't defogged them), also Toxic is also a good move, bypassing substitute, supporting your sweepers, and you can stall with Roost, this allows your team to pass walls or force many switches. Toxic + Defog + U-Turn is a very good combo, that will wear down a wall, remove the hazards, and U-Turn to your sweeper, Crobat doesn't sweep, it supports, It can also run Torment to cripple slower choice pokemons.

Crobat shouldn't be compared to Talonflame or Noivern. Please don't, crobat is far inferior using a CB set.

Firstly I think defog goes through substitute anyway.

Secondly Im not seeing how banded Crobat is objectively worse than Talon or Noivern. People keep saying this but Crobat has benefits over both, and that benefit is higher speed than Noivern and the ability to go through subs unlike Talonflame. All the things I posted before havent really been addressed by anyone yet, I talked about his steel/coverage issues, as well as his "low damage" issues (even though people are still using talon and noivern with comparable damage)

I picked out some of the most common substitute/ screen users from bw OU last gen that came to mind:
breloom
azelf
espeon
gyarados
gengar
gliscor

out of these, all of them bar gliscor are outsped and ohkod by banded brave bird after the 25% damage reduction from stealth rock. All subseeders also lose to crobat, and all focus punchers due to their typing. He cant break through steels but dont switch him in to break through steels. Steels rarely use substitute apart from perhaps in some weird M-lucario set, who recieves a ohko from brave bird nonetheless after the sub damage.

 

[Star]

Why would Cofagrigus switch into Aegislash? Also can you list in particular the physical threats that beat Cofagrigus, just to back up your point?

I'm not saying that Cofagrigus would switch into Aegislash. I'm just saying that Aegislash's presence hinders Cofagrigus's niche in the metagame. Some common physical attackers beat Cofagrigus. For example:

+2 252 Atk Mega Lucario Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 274-324 (85.6 - 101.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Mega Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 372-438 (116.2 - 136.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ Atk Choice Band Scizor Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 252-298 (78.7 - 93.1%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
+1 252+ Atk Mold Breaker Mega Gyarados Bite vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 270-318 (84.3 - 99.3%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Conkeldurr Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Cofagrigus: 178-210 (55.6 - 65.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

Also AV Guts Conk does not fear anything from Cofagrigus and forces it out or it can 3HKO it with Knock Off (because only the first hit is boosted). These powerful physical attackers deter Cofagrigus's presence in OU.

 

[Ruffles]

Yea looking at the other ghosts in the list I think perhaps C is the home for Cofagrigus, just due to having no recovery and issues with dark types.



Firstly I think defog goes through substitute anyway.

Secondly Im not seeing how Crobat is objectively worse than Talon or Noivern. People keep saying this but Crobat has benefits over both, and that benefit is higher speed than Noivern and the ability to go through subs unlike Talonflame. All the things I posted before havent really been addressed by anyone yet, I talked about his steel/coverage issues, as well as his "low damage" issues (even though people are stil using talon and noivern with comparable damage)

Do some research before posting, Defog doesn't get past Sub.

Talonflame is priority physical sweeper, Noivern is fast special sweeper, Crobat is fast support.

How are they similar? Being part flying doesn't make them similar. What you are saying is "Crobat should be OU b/c Conkeldurr is OU, and Crobat is faster anyways" No, please compare support to support, there's a reason why CB, NP, and All-out Crobat have been denied OU status this gen and last gen. Support is the only thing that makes him OK in OU.

 

[Scytha Gang]

Alright, Crobat, is NOT a pokemon to be banded, in fact NP set is better, but still way too unworthy OU. CROBAT SHOULD NOT BE COMPARED WITH NOIVERN, THEY HAVE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT NICHES.

I have ranked it about C+/B- NOT for being an offensive mon, with a 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Spe and a Jolly nature, Crobat is outspeeding almost all the unboosted metagame, only few outspeed it, and Jolteon, while not OU viable, is the only one who tie speeds it.

Crobat is very nice with BB, I run a BB-less Crobat though, and it is amazingly good.

The moveset I ran was U-Turn/Defog/Roost/Taunt. Super fast taunt means you are shutting down a very good portion of the metagame. And a fast taunt means you are Taunting very fast pokemons or pokemons with decent speed, a fast taunt was always very valued. U-Turn keeps momentum and has always been a good move, and a VoltTurn strategy around him will work greatly. Mandibuzz can't keep momentum as it cannot afford U-Turn, furthermore, Defog removes not only hazards, but screens too, which will be very valuable, Infilitrator means you can Defog on a Substitute, U-Turn pass screens (If you haven't defogged them), also Toxic is also a good move, bypassing substitute, supporting your sweepers, and you can stall with Roost, this allows your team to pass walls or force many switches. Toxic + Defog + U-Turn is a very good combo, that will wear down a wall, remove the hazards, and U-Turn to your sweeper, Crobat doesn't sweep, it supports, It can also run Torment to cripple slower choice pokemons.

Crobat shouldn't be compared to Talonflame or Noivern. Please don't, crobat is far inferior using a CB set.

And this is from the C&C's OP

"For instance, A spread of 252 HP / 58 SpD / 200 Spe may be more optimal for maximizing bulk for a full utility-based role, though the loss of power in Brave Bird will be significant." "It does not run 252 Spe because the extra Speed does not help it outrun many other relevant threats."

A crobat that has more SpD than Def is always better, as Download users (Genesect & PorygonZ) will use SpA SE moves

252 SpA Genesect Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 58 SpD Crobat: 210-248 (56.1 - 66.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery
252 SpA Porygon-Z Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 58 SpD Crobat: 226-268 (60.4 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

I think Crobat deserves C+ at the very least, though IMO B- will more ideal, as he is not completely outclassed by Mandibuzz.

EDIT: VenomDrench would be an interesting combo with Toxic too.

Crobat as a sweeper is outclassed by many pokemon in the OU tier already, but as a support role, besides a fast Taunt and Torment, Mandibuzz can take hits better than Crobat can, even with Black Sludge. Crobat is there in OU to stop Fairy Types. Crobat is at best a C.

 

[Ruffles]

Crobat as a sweeper is outclassed by many pokemon in the OU tier already, but as a support role, besides a fast Taunt and Torment, Mandibuzz can take hits better than Crobat can, even with Black Sludge. Crobat is there in OU to stop Fairy Types. Crobat is at best a C.

Mandibuzz cannot afford U-Turn, and isn't fast, Crobat can keep Momentum. Mandibuzz could 10% health left with hazards up, it might not even use Defog is the foe outspeeds, Crobat is rarely outsped. Unless Choice Scarf, and Crobat's fast defog is really nice, especially when it can hit through sub, furthermore, unlike Mandibuzz, Crobat can easily run Toxic + Venom drench, using that amazing speed to wear down foes, and when they switch, you simply U-Turn. Venom Drench is something Mandibuzz lacks. But Mandibuzz has Foul Play & Knock Off, making it better than Crobat, but not completely eclipsed, and that's why it deserves C+/B-

 

[Pipotchi]

Do some research before posting, Defog doesn't get past Sub.

Talonflame is priority physical sweeper, Noivern is fast special sweeper, Crobat is fast support.

How are they similar? Being part flying doesn't make them similar. What you are saying is "Crobat should be OU b/c Conkeldurr is OU, and Crobat is faster anyways" No, please compare support to support, there's a reason why CB, NP, and All-out Crobat have been denied OU status this gen and last gen. Support is the only thing that makes him OK in OU.

I just researched it, and all of the things I am finding says Defog goes through substitute.
I'm replying to the claims that people are making saying that Crobat is a weaker version of Talonflame/Noivern, so I'm making comparisons between the two even though they are different.
What I am trying to say (for about the 5th time) is that similarly to how a choice band Ferrothorn or choice specs jellicent had use last gen, choice band crobat has use this gen. Those two sets had value because the support sets had value, but what also made them viable is that they did something unique and reliable (dealt damage), so the surprise factor is not the only element of the set. If support crobat has a place in ou, then another set that he can do which has a unique and separate niche (choice band) also has merit! And it should be considered when placing him on the tier list, because it doesn't have to be his "best" set to give him extra unpredictability and to make him more dangerous, which it does.

 

[Sergeant Spooky]

Florges has better stats, and can perform

Its HP is lower than Sylveon's, meaning its wishes are smaller and its bulk is immediately worse.
Its attack is the same but neither uses it
Its defense is barely higher but that doesn't matter with Sylveon's higher HP
Its special attack is barely higher but that doesn't matter since Sylveon gets Pixilate Hyper Voice
Its special defense is higher but Sylveon still has higher HP, meaning their special bulk is almost identical
-252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Sylveon: 91-108 (23 - 27.4%)
-252 SpA Alakazam Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Florges: 81-96 (22.5 - 26.6%)
And Florges is faster but neither have a relevant speed tier anyway

Their movepools are nearly the same except Sylveon gets Psyshock and Shadowball (both very good coverage moves) while Florges gets Energy Ball (which it doesn't get STAB on.) Sylveon is just better.

 

[Pdizzle]

can we at least talk about ranking amoonguss. i posted calcs and my reasons why earlier on page 55

 

[Zebstrika]

I agree with Mega Manectric as B rank a few posts above. I would also like to throw in that it's quite resistant to priority, making it great at checking stuff that relies on it like Lucario, Aegislash, Azumarill, Pinsir, Scizor, Breloom and Talonflame, then being able to outspeed and land a strong super effective attack on them. Also, scarfers are a lot more rare this gen due to more priority and bulkiness around, so Mega Manectric outspeeds everything in OU besides Mega Alakazam and scarfed Genesect, Terrakion and Garchomp. Mega Manectric is also immune to paralysis, and if it hasn't mega'd it even gets a SpA boost off Thunder Wave due to Lightning rod. So Mega Manectric also has a very nice niche as being up there with scarfers in speed and power but the ability to switch moves, in addition to the intimidate+volt switch spamming it gets.

 

[Scytha Gang]

Mandibuzz cannot afford U-Turn, and isn't fast, Crobat can keep Momentum. Mandibuzz could 10% health left with hazards up, it might not even use Defog is the foe outspeeds, Crobat is rarely outsped. Unless Choice Scarf, and Crobat's fast defog is really nice, especially when it can hit through sub, furthermore, unlike Mandibuzz, Crobat can easily run Toxic + Venom drench, using that amazing speed to wear down foes, and when they switch, you simply U-Turn. Venom Drench is something Mandibuzz lacks. But Mandibuzz has Foul Play & Knock Off, making it better than Crobat, but not completely eclipsed, and that's why it deserves C+/B-

Venom Drench?! Although it does have it's strengths, it leaves Crobat vulnerable against Pokemon immune to Toxic, especially Steel Types such as Bisharp, given that If it's hit with Defog, he gets a +2 Atk Boost due to Defiant. Compared to other supportive options in OU, Crobat's only advantage is speed. 85/80/80 is not the most bulky defenses. There are many Spinners/Defoggers in OU who outclass Crobat regardless of what ever momentum he maintains. C it is.

 

[Star]

As everybody else said, you cannot compare Crobat with other flying types like Talonflame or Noivern. They are SWEEPERS, Crobat is only for SUPPORT. The fastest Defog in the game that breaks through Sub thanks to Inflitrator is incredibly useful. You also have a fast toxic/coverage move that wears down pokemon and it can keep momentum and switch out with a blazing fast u-turn. I think this should give it C+ rank.

 

[rachet67]

If support crobat has a place in ou, then another set that he can do which has a unique and separate niche (choice band) also has merit! And it should be considered when placing him on the tier list, because it doesn't have to be his "best" set to give him extra unpredictability and to make him more dangerous, which it does.

The problem is that Crobat has almost no place in OU period. There's really no use in using a "surprise set" on a pokemon as rare and niche as crobat anyways. Ferrothorn could only pull band off (barely) because everybody knew its normal set. It really wasn't even a good set on ferrothorn though. Also defog doesn't lower evasion if opponent is behind a sub, but it still clears all hazards without infiltrator.

 

[Ajwf]

Star, the issue is, what am I DOING with that speed? I can defog faster than anyone else, but really is that helping me? Fast toxic, well he could just infiltrate it. All of this is really lackluster to me. The attack and defense power is not what I want from either and honestly, if I want toxic support, I expect a bulky support. If I need an infiltrator, I'd use spiritomb. And honestly, latias/latios offer a fast enough defog support, better attack and really could do toxic support if I wanted to waste their potential. Do so better than crowbat, too.

 

[Scytha Gang]

can we at least talk about ranking amoonguss. i posted calcs and my reasons why earlier on page 55

Ammongus is outclassed by many other Pokemon who can do the same role as it, that being support. Bulky, yes, but there are many OU Pokemon that can handle Amoongus very easily now. Running Ammongus in OU now will require needless support. No ranking for it.