What are these flying types from Gen 6? (Perhaps Togekiss, who can be seen as a "new" Pokemon due to its new typing, or maybe Tornadus-T and Thundurus, as the latter has some play although the former is rarely seen) I probably do not know about them because it would seem that a flying type who cannot leverage a flying STAB without some compensatory stats or an ability would just be seen as Stealth Rock liability with no commensurate reward. Thus, it is unlikely I would see these Pokemon in OU.
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Pokémon Machamp
- Thread starter GarchompPit
- Start date
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What are these flying types from Gen 6? (Perhaps Togekiss, who can be seen as a "new" Pokemon due to its new typing, or maybe Tornadus-T and Thundurus, as the latter has some play although the former is rarely seen) I probably do not know about them because it would seem that a flying type who cannot leverage a flying STAB without some compensatory stats or an ability would just be seen as Stealth Rock liability with no commensurate reward. Thus, it is unlikely I would see these Pokemon in OU.
Well I'm not thinking OU in the first place, although Machamp isn't unwelcome there. He was UU last gen and flying types are everywhere. Rock has great neutral coverage anyways, so it's still a major selling point for him to be able to vomit out large amounts of damage for free. And DynamicPunch is an amazing move, too, and Machamp's the only decent user of it.
Still, I wasn't really thinking when I said "ever-growing".
I would've loved to see Machamp get a Mega. It seemed like an obvious Pokemon to give one to. Despite that I've still had lots of success with Machamp, but when Pokebank comes out there will be little reason to use him over Conkeldurr. Machamp may also see competition with Mega Medicham now. Mega Medicham is much faster, with 80->100 Spe, and a greater threat offensively thanks to Pure Power, but has 30 less base HP and none of the utility Machamp offers with his DP confusion.
Here are the two sets I've been using:
All out Machamp @ Expert Belt
No Guard / Adamant
212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Stone Edge
Ice Punch
Dynamic Punch
Payback
The Expert Belt boost is great with the amount of Pokemon he hits for SE with this four move coverage. Only Electric, Fairy, Poison and Water, and a few dual-types avoid being hit for SE damage.
Trick Room Machamp @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
No Guard / Brave
252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpD / 0 IV Spe
Stone Edge
Ice Punch
Dynamic Punch
Eathquake
Machamp is a force to be reckoned with when Trick Room is up. This set gives just as good coverage as the one above. You could swap Stone Edge for Thunder Punch for even more SE coverage, but a perfect accuracy Stone Edge is just too good to pass up. It's also tons of fun in rotation battles on wifi
Here are the two sets I've been using:
All out Machamp @ Expert Belt
No Guard / Adamant
212 HP / 252 Atk / 44 Spe
Stone Edge
Ice Punch
Dynamic Punch
Payback
The Expert Belt boost is great with the amount of Pokemon he hits for SE with this four move coverage. Only Electric, Fairy, Poison and Water, and a few dual-types avoid being hit for SE damage.
Trick Room Machamp @ Expert Belt / Life Orb
No Guard / Brave
252 HP / 252 Atk / 6 SpD / 0 IV Spe
Stone Edge
Ice Punch
Dynamic Punch
Eathquake
Machamp is a force to be reckoned with when Trick Room is up. This set gives just as good coverage as the one above. You could swap Stone Edge for Thunder Punch for even more SE coverage, but a perfect accuracy Stone Edge is just too good to pass up. It's also tons of fun in rotation battles on wifi
It does works better as a Guts user..Other than that I find Machamp to be slightly better because of nearly the same amount bulk that it possess and also being faster..But I have to give credit to Conk for having Mach Punch..(but it doesn't have a solid check to ghost types like Machamp does this gen(Knock Off))
From my experiance in VGC style play, there is a huge problem with using Machamp under Trick Room, and that problem is Reuniclus and Amoonguss.
Both go first against Machamp under Trick Room, and both are fairly common Trick Room counters used in VGC style play. Reuniclus destroys him with a Psychic STAB of choice, and Amoonguss puts him to sleep while resisting Dynamic Punch.
This is made even worse by the fact that Trick Room isn't a very easy strategy to pull off in singles, so taking a Trick Room Machamp into doubles will be the only viable use for such a set, and then you'd have to contend with the threats I mentioned above.
Both go first against Machamp under Trick Room, and both are fairly common Trick Room counters used in VGC style play. Reuniclus destroys him with a Psychic STAB of choice, and Amoonguss puts him to sleep while resisting Dynamic Punch.
This is made even worse by the fact that Trick Room isn't a very easy strategy to pull off in singles, so taking a Trick Room Machamp into doubles will be the only viable use for such a set, and then you'd have to contend with the threats I mentioned above.
Added the:
- Asault Vest Champ Set!
- Sp.Defensive Champ!
Stupid question: I see lots of sets using 44 speed EVs. now while that was good in Gen 5 UU, is that really relevant in today's metagame?
I believe 44 EVs lets Machamp outspeed base 60 pokemon with no investment.
Some OU pokemon that fit this criteria would include Aegislash and Jellicent (Clefable, Sylveon and Porygon2 to lesser extent)
You don't really want to outspeed Aegislash though, it's the difference between hitting Shield Form with a 50 BP Payback and hitting the Blade Form with a 100 BP Payback.
Payback is old news, Knock Off is where it's at this gen.
Yeah, knocking off an Aegislashs Leftovers would be more helpful in the long run than Payback. I'm not sure how it would play out with Weakness Policy though. Would Aegislash still get the boost, or would it lose it's item before hand?
He'd get the boost, unfortunately.
That's true, you can tell I haven't seen a Machamp since B/W lol, but outslowing Aegislash is still useful even with Knock Off.
In my experience with Trick Room any Pokemon who do not have amazing one move neutral coverage (Only example in Trick Room I could see is Specs Exploud) should not be running choice in Trick Room. With only at max four turns to sweep Banded Machamp can be easily stalled out by an immunity or a resist if he's locked into one move and to pull him back would be to sacrifice multiple turns to not sweeping in Trick Room.
Also Machamp is completely outclassed in Trick Room by Conkeldurr who is much more powerful, moves slower and has more bulk as well as a STAB priority move, oh and healing with Drain Punch and burn immunity with Guts. The confusion is nice but a Trick Room sweeper isn't really afraid of the opponents attacks with max HP investment but is more afraid of not having the power to take down its counters and getting stalled out during Trick Room sweeps.
On Pokemon Showdown, Knock Off has been removing my Aegislash's Weakness Policy without activating it. With Knock Off being a fairly common move these days, this has turned me off of Weakness Policy Aegislash. Is this a bug with Showdown?
Thing I really hate is that conk gets Mach punch and drain punch over champ, as well as better hp and def AND attack. That's a lot of stuff conk edges champ out on.
It doesn't help that conk has a more fruitful selection of abilities, from status absorbing guts to boosting its punching moves with iron fist and sheer force, which is rarely used but still a better option over steadfast.
All Machamp has is 100% accuracy cross chop/stone edge/ dynamic punch and better special bulk (I'm no number cruncher but 105/65 seems less bulky or equally bulky to 90/85 ) which certainly isn't bad but not enough to justify its use over conk, which sucks because Machamp is awesome.
What would be great is if this guy got a mega evolution. And kept no guard but gained some more bulk and attack (because the speed is abysmal as is and should be ignored)
It doesn't help that conk has a more fruitful selection of abilities, from status absorbing guts to boosting its punching moves with iron fist and sheer force, which is rarely used but still a better option over steadfast.
All Machamp has is 100% accuracy cross chop/stone edge/ dynamic punch and better special bulk (I'm no number cruncher but 105/65 seems less bulky or equally bulky to 90/85 ) which certainly isn't bad but not enough to justify its use over conk, which sucks because Machamp is awesome.
What would be great is if this guy got a mega evolution. And kept no guard but gained some more bulk and attack (because the speed is abysmal as is and should be ignored)
Scarf Machamp is fun if you like confusing people with fast DynamicPunches. It's very unexpected and confusing to the opponent. Not too fast though: it falls short of Jolly/Timid Terrakion/Keldeo and everything faster. Still worth a mention imo as DynamicPunch is so spammable.
Also, no Rest-Talk Guts set? You guys don't know your classics do you.
Also, no Rest-Talk Guts set? You guys don't know your classics do you.
Rest-Talk + Guts is outclassed by Conkeldurr.
While technically true, Conk has three superior sets in AV, Bulk Up, and Sheer Force. With Rest as a means to replenish health over Drain Punch, Machamp can at least abuse the stronger Dynamic Punch this way and can be reasonably difficult to take out when you factor in Confusion on top of Dynamic Punch and Stone Edge/Knock Off. Honestly, it's probably his best and most relevant set.
Except that Dynamic Punch sucks without No Guard to make it actually able to hit things without being forced to tool around with Mind Reader or Sweet Scent/Defog.
Ah yes, yes it does. *face palm*
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