You could run Heavy Slam if you want, but Iron Head is preferred because it's more consistent (there's a lot more Pokemon that weigh >290 pounds than you might think). Also, I just ran a bunch of calcs, and Bisharp doesn't really threaten the set in the post you quoted, regardless of which move Mega Aggron runs; so while Heavy Slam does enough extra damage to it to KO in fewer hits, I don't really think it's enough of a factor to automatically make Heavy Slam the move of choice. Use this as a reference for which Pokemon are hit for less damage by Heavy Slam (make sure to look at everything all the way down to the bottom of the page), and ask yourself if you're fine with that before you run it.
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XY UU Beta Discussion (Read post #32)
- Thread starter Ace Emerald
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Iron head is just more consistent and stuff. It's also worth noting, I guess, that heavy slam has 16 pp and iron head has 24. Some stuff will take a while to break through with your resisted hits, despite curse boosts, so its better to have more pp than have more power.
So, with Kyurem-B being quickbanned, how do you guys think Kyurem will fare in the tier? It doesn't have the overkill base 170 attack, but it still has the stupid bulk of 125/90/90, the same speed tier, and its attacking stats of 130 are still terrifying. Really, the only reason it isn't used is because it's outclassed by something more broken, but I think that it would be almost as effective.
I think Kyurem will adopt Kyu-B's 4 attack Life Orb set, but swap Claw off for Meteor/Pulse and Fusion Bolt for Focus Blast, and still be quite effective. It can't quite beat the special walls like Kyu-B can, but I think it will be very effective in the tier anyway.
What do people think of Latias being in UU and Bisharp going up to OU? .-.
In general, I find TSpikes to be very hit or miss. Sometimes, it just demolishes teams and I win on turn 1 because I have TSpikes up. Other times I'm just wishing I had Spikes. In OU, this was more true than it is in UU, but there are a fair share of UU threats that don't care about TSpikes (Hydreigon being another big one). And you know what else shuts down TSpikes? Roserade and Scolipede...
The one I've used this gen is a double spiking Scolipede. You basically decide during team preview whether or not TSpikes will be useful, and if not you just try to set Spikes. TSpikers should be able to function well even if they're not using TSpikes (basically only have 3 moves instead of 4 for a particular match). That's what I like about your two sets. Roserade, though I prefer classic spikes more, can still be pretty dangerous with just those 3 other moves. Scoli still has utility in dropping spikes and passing speed boosts
Amen to that
So I've been experimenting with some defensive cores lately and I've found Mega Aggron + Florges to be pretty incredible to say the least. Between the two, they wall sooo much, and they are incredible standalone Pokemon as well. You have a Pokemon that walls most physical attackers as well as a Pokemon that walls most special attackers. This core also completely shuts down pretty much every Dragon-type, so you will almost never have any issues with them if you have this core on a team. Florges even provides Aggron with Wish and Heal Bell support, the former of which is invaluable. It's so easy to Wish as something that threatens Florges comes in and then switch out to Aggron for Aggron to destroy. Unlike most defensive cores, it doesn't even get destroyed by Knock Off, as Mega Aggron could give less of a hoot about all of the Knock Off Dark-types, with the exception of CB Crawdaunt.
The only big weakness for this core are physical Ground- and Fire-types. While Filter helps Aggron survive these attacks, it's not enough to compensate for this weakness, so you will need an additional teammate to tank these sort of attacks.
I can definitely see this core becoming standard in the future, because it's just so damn solid. Really, if you haven't tried this core yet, do it.
The only big weakness for this core are physical Ground- and Fire-types. While Filter helps Aggron survive these attacks, it's not enough to compensate for this weakness, so you will need an additional teammate to tank these sort of attacks.
I can definitely see this core becoming standard in the future, because it's just so damn solid. Really, if you haven't tried this core yet, do it.
Jellied Eels said:
I also think tspikes are really good in this meta. Nidoqueen and Scolipede are the most popular poison-types I've seen, but I'm not even seeing them enough to worry about. I also want to add that with Mega Abomasnow being REALLY good, Toxic Spikes work very well with hail running alongside them, and poison-types can switch into Fighting-types aimed at Aboma. The synergy is quite good. Double-Spiking Scolipede is just really good on its own though with Speed Boost, and 3 great filler attacks in Baton Pass, Megahorn, and Earthquake.
I approve. Bisharp was literally ran on every good team; just ask SrnashBrosBrawl and Laga, two people I know who play UU on occasion. If you don't run Bisharp you're almost guaranteed to lose to a team that has it, unless you're really good at the game AND have counters to it AND your opponent is a nub. If that isn't OP I don't know what is.
Kyurem-B needed to be taken out. Overall, I'm happy with this choice.
Sun teams are really good atm. The only weather inducer that i commonly see outside of Ninetales is Hippowdon, which is not hard at all to deal with the common sun abusers and even Ninetales. Ninetales can just burn it on the switch in, Mega Houndoom can use Sunny Day on the switch and OHKO it with Fire Blast, Sawsbuck can dent it with a +2 Horn Leech, Emboar can 2HKO it with Grass Knot, Tangrowth can fuck it up with Grass moves, etc.
Speaking of sun sweepers, Mega Houndoom is an absolute beast. A simple set of (Sunny Day / Sucker Punch / Destiny Bond) / Fire Blast / Dark Pulse / Solarbeam 2HKOes the entire metagame under sun, except from Snorlax, which can be dealt with Destiny Bond. It's also one of the fastest offensive threats, outspeeding both Latias and Keldeo, which is amazing. Mega Houndoom also checks the threatening Dark-types of the tier, taking ~73% from +2 LO Bisharp's Sucker Punch, being immune to the side-effect of Knock Off, and in general resisting Bisharp's whole moveset. Of course you shouldn't usually bring Mega Houndoom in against Bisharp, but having a situational check to it should the need arise is great. As if those things weren't enough, regular Houndoom provides a great check to opposing Fire-types with Flash Fire, and is a great check to Chandelure, a big threat to sun teams. If Houndoom manages to get a Flash Fire boost with sun up, you don't need to click any other move besides Fire Blast.
Emboar is a great wallbreaker for sun teams, smashing the blobs and Snorlax, as well as Florges that may stall for enough turns until sun fades out, making Mega Houndoom unable to get past her. Sucker Punch was a great addition to its movepool, letting it fuck up usual checks such as Chandelure and Latias, while Grass Knot takes care of Hippowdon, easily 2HKOing physically defensive variants with a neutral Atk nature and at least Expert Belt. It is very slow though, but it's neutrality to SR, great mixed wallbreaking abilities, and priority, make it a great asset on sun teams.
Finally, Defog Latias is one of the best support Pokemon to use on sun teams, being excellent at getting rid of Stealth Rock easily and smashing Bisharp with sun-boosted HP Fire, which does 86% min to 4 HP Bisharp with 252 SpA EVs and no boosting item. It also provides a safe switch-in to Fire, Electric, and Ground attacks, all moves that the common sun sweepers can't take.
The most underwheling sun sweeper i tried was Sawsbuck, which couldn't even OHKO 4 HP Haxorus with Adamant LO Double-Edge, and in general was too weak to get enough OHKOes and clean up late game. It's also frail as fuck and very weak to priority, while Double-Edge + LO make it go down pretty fast.
tl;dr Sun teams are some of the strongest teams i have used and faced in this metagame.
Speaking of sun sweepers, Mega Houndoom is an absolute beast. A simple set of (Sunny Day / Sucker Punch / Destiny Bond) / Fire Blast / Dark Pulse / Solarbeam 2HKOes the entire metagame under sun, except from Snorlax, which can be dealt with Destiny Bond. It's also one of the fastest offensive threats, outspeeding both Latias and Keldeo, which is amazing. Mega Houndoom also checks the threatening Dark-types of the tier, taking ~73% from +2 LO Bisharp's Sucker Punch, being immune to the side-effect of Knock Off, and in general resisting Bisharp's whole moveset. Of course you shouldn't usually bring Mega Houndoom in against Bisharp, but having a situational check to it should the need arise is great. As if those things weren't enough, regular Houndoom provides a great check to opposing Fire-types with Flash Fire, and is a great check to Chandelure, a big threat to sun teams. If Houndoom manages to get a Flash Fire boost with sun up, you don't need to click any other move besides Fire Blast.
Emboar is a great wallbreaker for sun teams, smashing the blobs and Snorlax, as well as Florges that may stall for enough turns until sun fades out, making Mega Houndoom unable to get past her. Sucker Punch was a great addition to its movepool, letting it fuck up usual checks such as Chandelure and Latias, while Grass Knot takes care of Hippowdon, easily 2HKOing physically defensive variants with a neutral Atk nature and at least Expert Belt. It is very slow though, but it's neutrality to SR, great mixed wallbreaking abilities, and priority, make it a great asset on sun teams.
Finally, Defog Latias is one of the best support Pokemon to use on sun teams, being excellent at getting rid of Stealth Rock easily and smashing Bisharp with sun-boosted HP Fire, which does 86% min to 4 HP Bisharp with 252 SpA EVs and no boosting item. It also provides a safe switch-in to Fire, Electric, and Ground attacks, all moves that the common sun sweepers can't take.
The most underwheling sun sweeper i tried was Sawsbuck, which couldn't even OHKO 4 HP Haxorus with Adamant LO Double-Edge, and in general was too weak to get enough OHKOes and clean up late game. It's also frail as fuck and very weak to priority, while Double-Edge + LO make it go down pretty fast.
tl;dr Sun teams are some of the strongest teams i have used and faced in this metagame.
They would only have OU usage if you ignore the fact that the OU pokemon in question are Mega pokemon. Smogon is completely capable of tracking specific items on pokemon for usage purposes. And most likely they will. They did it with 2 megas so far, so your opinion means nothing, really.
So you are saying that the tiering system cannot track weather the pokemon is holding a specific item? You are saying the specific pokemon (mawile) and another specific pokemon (mawile holding mawileite) are impossible to destinguish?
You do understand they did it with Khangaskan and gengar. Just gaining a few more steps of data (one more step per mega) and you have yourself new pokemon statistics. on how used a pokmeon is.
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Did they? I thought the ban was because almost everyone wouldn't stop whining about it, so they decided to test it, and deemed it too powerful for the metagame.
Just stop. Tiers are usage based. If 50% of Swampert held Leftovers, would anyone say to ban Leftovers on Swampert? No, that's stupid. Don't tell someome "your opinion means nothing" when you know nothing more then him.
If you guys haven't already, SD Cobalion pairs up really well with Latias. Iron STAB, can take on Bisharp at +2, good bulk. I just think it's underrated.
Because clearly leftovers and mawileite are the same thing
Something that can kill/block Darmanitan would be useful in the team since I usually see them run rampant around the 1500 range (Haven't been able to get higher than that since I'm new to UU and with all the Deoxy's, Keldeo's, and Bisharps running around I still think the meta could use some trimming). Being able to OHKO standard Florges and 2HKO Aggron is a massive threat. FF Chandelure should cover that weakness nicely, or a faster scarfer that can OHKO Darman, or perhaps Crawduant who can OHKO with Aqua Jet even on Life Orb variant.
I agree, cobalion is very good this meta. It still had the dark resistance and is the best check to bisharp as they dont tend to runlow kick/brick break any more and can easily get a +1 from knock off. Its defense is also amazing, it can live almost any physical attack and either settup or hit hard with strong STABs. Its dual stab is only resisted (in the tier) by tentacreul, slowbro, zapdos, slowking, victini, chandelure, jellicent and thundurus-t. Half of which are weak to stone edge and the other half are weak to volt switch. Its also hard to revenge kill without a scarf due to 108 speed and resistant to common priorities.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Magnezone yet.
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Basically copy paste Magneton's analytic set from last gen, but with higher special attack. I've faced so many teams that have no switch ins to this thing. Volt Switch keeps up momentum while also hitting incredibly hard, even when resisted. Hidden power grass takes care of gastrodon and swampert switch ins. Flash Cannon takes care of any fairy type, while Magnezone only takes about 30% from Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice. Magnezone is also a great check to Slowbro, even punishing switches for Regeneration. Overall he's one of the more reliable steel types and a great pivot.
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Basically copy paste Magneton's analytic set from last gen, but with higher special attack. I've faced so many teams that have no switch ins to this thing. Volt Switch keeps up momentum while also hitting incredibly hard, even when resisted. Hidden power grass takes care of gastrodon and swampert switch ins. Flash Cannon takes care of any fairy type, while Magnezone only takes about 30% from Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice. Magnezone is also a great check to Slowbro, even punishing switches for Regeneration. Overall he's one of the more reliable steel types and a great pivot.
I've been having fun with a fun core: Eviolite Doublade, Mega-Blastoise and Florges. These 3 handle most threats pretty well.
I've been hearing a lot of talk about Bisharp being too strong. The only problem with this is that if Bisharp leaves, Knock Off is still going to be an issue regardless. Mienshao and Crawdaunt (who is surprisingly stronger than I thought) have access to Knock Off and it screws up most pokes. I think the Sticky Web/Defog coupled with the buff to dark moves is what making Bisharp so great this gen. But, it's not invincible. Any strong Fighting/Ground attack handles it pretty easily imo.
Any strong electric type can handle Slowbro, let's be realistic lol. The thing that makes Magnezone so good is that STAB Flash Cannon, obliterating one of the best sp def walls; Florges.
I've been hearing a lot of talk about Bisharp being too strong. The only problem with this is that if Bisharp leaves, Knock Off is still going to be an issue regardless. Mienshao and Crawdaunt (who is surprisingly stronger than I thought) have access to Knock Off and it screws up most pokes. I think the Sticky Web/Defog coupled with the buff to dark moves is what making Bisharp so great this gen. But, it's not invincible. Any strong Fighting/Ground attack handles it pretty easily imo.
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Magnezone yet.
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 SDef
Modest Nature
- Flash Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Grass]
Basically copy paste Magneton's analytic set from last gen, but with higher special attack. I've faced so many teams that have no switch ins to this thing. Volt Switch keeps up momentum while also hitting incredibly hard, even when resisted. Hidden power grass takes care of gastrodon and swampert switch ins. Flash Cannon takes care of any fairy type, while Magnezone only takes about 30% from Mega Gardevoir's Hyper Voice. Magnezone is also a great check to Slowbro, even punishing switches for Regeneration. Overall he's one of the more reliable steel types and a great pivot.
Any strong electric type can handle Slowbro, let's be realistic lol. The thing that makes Magnezone so good is that STAB Flash Cannon, obliterating one of the best sp def walls; Florges.
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Being immune to twave and toxic doesn't hurt but I see what you mean. Scarf diggersby makes a great volt turn core with zone too
I've been using Choice Band Crobat with Choice Band Staraptor, and they're just so stupidly strong. I remember using CB Crobat last gen and thinking that it hit stupidly hard, but it's such a light-weight compared to Staraptor. CB Staraptor legitimately scores a 2HKO or sometimes even an OHKO against even things that resist its STABs, and it has Close Combat to handle most of its checks, including Rhyperior and Metagross. So many teams either fail to carry a Flying-type resist or have only one, making it insanely easy for one to open up a hole in the opposing team for the other to clean. The only problem with the core is that if the opponent does manage to have something that can wall both (which is basically only RestTalk Mega Aggron lol), then you kind of spend half the match flailing around trying to get rid of it. The Stealth Rock weakness isn't even that problematic because Healing Wish Latias is the best offensive support you could ask for with the duo.
I'm also wondering if anyone has used Kyurem-N yet. I still haven't seen any, and I don't even know how to approach using it. Specs sounds really exploitable, especially with the lack of permahail this gen, and it faces competition as a specially attacking Dragon-type from Latias and Hydreigon. Thoughts? Sub Roost sounds like it's probably the best it can manage, but even that sounds somewhat underwhelming to me with Florges and Empoleon all over the place.
I'm also wondering if anyone has used Kyurem-N yet. I still haven't seen any, and I don't even know how to approach using it. Specs sounds really exploitable, especially with the lack of permahail this gen, and it faces competition as a specially attacking Dragon-type from Latias and Hydreigon. Thoughts? Sub Roost sounds like it's probably the best it can manage, but even that sounds somewhat underwhelming to me with Florges and Empoleon all over the place.
Hmmm, Analytic Magnezone. It's cool that Magnezone is good outside of trapping. The Magnezone I use is:
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 88 Spd / 252 SAtk / 168 HP
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
The speed lets me outspeed uninvested Metagross and Volt Switch into a ground immunity. AV Metagross can cause so many problems for certain teams, and it's great if you can slowly wear it down. Magnezone vs AV Metagross may be a bad matchup for Magnezone, but with some crafty plays, Metagross can be worn down eventually
Magnezone is just so sweet in this tier. It does top notch damage, provides momentum via Volt Switch, beats Florges and is actually able to reliable trap most steels. It was fun in OU but it was just so annoying that it was unable to reliably trap two of the best steels in the tier, Genesect and Heatran.
I like OU more currently but the one thing I like about UU are the megas. They are all so different and function in completely different ways. It's not like the OU megas, where they have their differences, but a big chunk of them are "Give me 1 setup turn and you just instantly lose the game." Gyarados, Charizard-X, Lucario, Pinsir, they are all different but similar in the sense that you never ever want to give them a setup opportunity. Even things like Manectric and Ampharos, that fulfill a similar role play in different ways. They are both volt switching momentum gainers at heart but the way they function is really different. You have the speedy threatening Volt Switcher (that cripples and forces things out via intimidate) and the bulky slow Volt Switcher
As for the weird tiering discussion... wouldn't it be fun if say Alakazamite was legal in UU, but Sash/Life Orb Alakazam wasn't?
Magnezone @ Choice Specs
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 88 Spd / 252 SAtk / 168 HP
Modest Nature
- Volt Switch
- Thunderbolt
- Flash Cannon
- Hidden Power [Fire]
The speed lets me outspeed uninvested Metagross and Volt Switch into a ground immunity. AV Metagross can cause so many problems for certain teams, and it's great if you can slowly wear it down. Magnezone vs AV Metagross may be a bad matchup for Magnezone, but with some crafty plays, Metagross can be worn down eventually
Magnezone is just so sweet in this tier. It does top notch damage, provides momentum via Volt Switch, beats Florges and is actually able to reliable trap most steels. It was fun in OU but it was just so annoying that it was unable to reliably trap two of the best steels in the tier, Genesect and Heatran.
I like OU more currently but the one thing I like about UU are the megas. They are all so different and function in completely different ways. It's not like the OU megas, where they have their differences, but a big chunk of them are "Give me 1 setup turn and you just instantly lose the game." Gyarados, Charizard-X, Lucario, Pinsir, they are all different but similar in the sense that you never ever want to give them a setup opportunity. Even things like Manectric and Ampharos, that fulfill a similar role play in different ways. They are both volt switching momentum gainers at heart but the way they function is really different. You have the speedy threatening Volt Switcher (that cripples and forces things out via intimidate) and the bulky slow Volt Switcher
As for the weird tiering discussion... wouldn't it be fun if say Alakazamite was legal in UU, but Sash/Life Orb Alakazam wasn't?
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