Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Chompx29]

Also 2 things:

For one Static Zapdos is inferior to Pressure in almost every way. One of the main things that hits Zapdos is Stone Edge from the likes of Landoru-T or Tyranitar, and this can be stalled out in just 4 turns with pressure. Zapdos can also pull a Sub-Disable Gengar using Pressure by using its pseudo 64 PP on it's sub roost set to guarantee a Sub on the opponent's switch.

I also think that Lantern should be a D tier Pokemon and here is why:

Let's look at what a D tier Pokemon is: "Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current OU metagame, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then their worth the majority of the time."

Lantern has a number very important but rather small niches over Rotom-W such as an immunity to electric (most notably Volt Switch), significantly higher special defense (given its base HP being almost 3x Rotom's), and most importantly Heal Bell; making it a good defensive pivot for stall or heavily defensive teams. It is also easily the strongest Rotom-W counter in the game, and beats many of the Pokemon Rotom-W does such as Hetran and Talonflame.

What makes it D tier instead of higher then? Because it has two very noteable flaws: One being lack of reliable recovery, and the other being very poor physical defense (doesn't matter how high your HP is if you have base 58 defense).

In conclusion I think that Lantern is not only a perfect candidate for the D tier, but is quite possibly a perfect example of a D tier Pokemon.

 

[RP2865]

Excadrill for A+ Rank!

• Arguably the best Rapid Spinner due to its efficiency
• Access to Stealth Rock ; not many Pokemon can boast of being able to set hazards and provide hazard control
• Sky high base 135 Attack makes him an offensive threat
• Two amazing abilities in Mold Breaker and Sand Rush
• Boasts a great typing that provides an immunity to Poison and Electric Moves while having a plethora of resistances
• Diversity is definitely capable of describing Excadrill. From Assault Vest to Choice Scarf, Excadrill is far from being short on options
• Swords Dance allows Excadrill to break holes and sometimes sweep in rare scenarios

This is interesting. While I agree with some of this, I have a few disagreements. Before I say this, I think Excadrill should be A rank.
First, his abilities are not as "amazing" as you make them out to be and are really par at best IMO. Yes, Mold Breaker is huge against Gengar and Rotom, but why would a Gengar switch into an excadrill anyway? Also, sand rush took a huge nerf this generation because sand stream only lasts for five turns. I'm sure I'm not the only person who thinks using Sandstorm itself is a bad move, and trying to rely on a streamer puts you in a tight and limited position. Even worse, as it is not a rock type, it doesn't get that amazing 50% boost to sp. def that Tyranitar does. As for the typing, it is pretty excellent, but weaknesses to moves like High Jump Kick, Fire Blast, Flare Blitz, Surf, Hydro Pump, and EarthQuake hurts, and many common threats use these moves(Garchomp, Talonflame, Landorus-T, the MegaZards, Rotom-W are among them). Something that people often forget is that it does not have very admirable defenses. 115 HP is a godsend, but 60/65 defenses can destroy it. (All of the Pokemon in the parentheses can OHKO it.) It can carry Air Balloon, but that harms it's utility. As for the assault vest, that isn't very helpful since most of its checks are physically inclined. All of the Pokemon in the parentheses except Rotom-W can still OHKO it. And as for Choice Scarf, it can't really spin or set hazards and so loses most of its utility. The thing is that many Pokemon can do this better, such as the aforementioned Landorus-T and the less common Flygon (which has U-turn and higher speed). Finally, with the Swords Dance, it is just crushing that Excadrill receives no decent priority that I know of. Base 88 speed lets you be revenged by a number of things, such as Salamence, Landorus T (again!), Infernape, Talonflame (again!), and others. Neither of these 4 Pokemon can outspeed Excadrill with out a scarf.

 

[Slashari]

I would like to nominate Kingdra for B+ rank! While the Rain nerf hurt Kingdra, with the new Critical Hit mechanics, Kingdra gained a new tool: Using Focus Energy in combination with a Scope Lens and Sniper to guarantee huge damage off of Critical Hits. Basically, Kingdra gets a Nasty Plot boost that disregards stat drops, meaning it can spam Draco Meteor with no downsides. This set may seem gimmicky, but it's very, very threatening. It beats OU's premier Special Walls/Tanks, and only has one true counter: Ferrothorn, which is 3HKO'ed by Draco Meteor when running a +Sdef Nature and Max HP/Sdef. Azumarill serves only as a check, not a counter, as it is 2HKO by a Critical Hit Hydro Pump.

Kingdra's great typing gives it only two weaknesses: dragon and fairy, and lots of switch ins. It's speed tier gives it the option of comfortably running Modest or Adamant, giving more power to its hits. When paired with Scolipede, Kingra is nearly unstoppable. Taking Neutral/resisted damage from all priority and outspeeding a good amount of the tier after being passed a Speed Boost or two, it's game over. Screens also benefit Kingdra greatly, allowing it more time to set up. Klefki is a good partner, as it benefits with priority screens, and the two have good synergy.

Unfortunately, not all is perfect for Kingdra. Its lackluster speed lets it get outsped by many threats, and it's decent bulk isn't always enough to survive a SE hit. Fast Pokemon packing SE moves or strong priority are really the only way to beat this thing, or else it'll eat your family for breakfast. Without the Critdra set, it really just isn't as good as it used to be. The rain nerf hurt Kingra a lot, and the introduction of the fairy type isn't helping either.

Am I crazy?

Calculations:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur on a critical hit: 360-424 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur on a critical hit: 270-319 (74.1 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand on a critical hit: 480-567 (118.8 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand on a critical hit: 324-381 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent on a critical hit: 297-351 (73.5 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra on a critical hit: 399-471 (103.9 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2 on a critical hit: 211-249 (56.4 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro on a critical hit: 339-400 (86 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

 

[AOPSUser]

I would like to nominate Kingdra for B+ rank! While the Rain nerf hurt Kingdra, with the new Critical Hit mechanics, Kingdra gained a new tool: Using Focus Energy in combination with a Scope Lens and Sniper to guarantee huge damage off of Critical Hits. Basically, Kingdra gets a Nasty Plot boost that disregards stat drops, meaning it can spam Draco Meteor with no downsides. This set may seem gimmicky, but it's very, very threatening. It beats OU's premier Special Walls/Tanks, and only has one true counter: Ferrothorn, which is 3HKO'ed by Draco Meteor when running a +Sdef Nature and Max HP/Sdef. Azumarill serves only as a check, not a counter, as it is 2HKO by a Critical Hit Hydro Pump.

Kingdra's great typing gives it only two weaknesses: dragon and fairy, and lots of switch ins. It's speed tier gives it the option of comfortably running Modest or Adamant, giving more power to its hits. When paired with Scolipede, Kingra is nearly unstoppable. Taking Neutral/resisted damage from all priority and outspeeding a good amount of the tier after being passed a Speed Boost or two, it's game over. Screens also benefit Kingdra greatly, allowing it more time to set up. Klefki is a good partner, as it benefits with priority screens, and the two have good synergy.

Unfortunately, not all is perfect for Kingdra. Its lackluster speed lets it get outsped by many threats, and it's decent bulk isn't always enough to survive a SE hit. Fast Pokemon packing SE moves or strong priority are really the only way to beat this thing, or else it'll eat your family for breakfast. Without the Critdra set, it really just isn't as good as it used to be. The rain nerf hurt Kingra a lot, and the introduction of the fairy type isn't helping either.

Am I crazy?

Calculations:
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Mega Venusaur on a critical hit: 360-424 (98.9 - 116.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mega Venusaur on a critical hit: 270-319 (74.1 - 87.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tyranitar in Sand on a critical hit: 480-567 (118.8 - 140.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Tyranitar in Sand on a critical hit: 324-381 (80.1 - 94.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Jellicent on a critical hit: 297-351 (73.5 - 86.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Goodra on a critical hit: 399-471 (103.9 - 122.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2 on a critical hit: 211-249 (56.4 - 66.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Assault Vest Slowbro on a critical hit: 339-400 (86 - 101.5%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

I really think you are overselling Kingdra. While Kingdra may be a complete beast when set up and Baton Passed +2 Speed, you have to look at the effort it takes to get there.

Kingdra's Speed is ATROCIOUS. 85 Speed is good...for a wall. Kingdra is outsped by every single Scarfer in existence, including stuff like Magnezone, you are outsped by Timid Rotom-W, and everything faster, which is like 2/3 of OU. There's also priority, like Talonflame, running around. Basically, if you want to even think about sweeping, you have to Baton Pass +2 Speed, which lets it outspeed every relevant Scarfer in OU, and then you have to set up Focus Energy. Setting up Focus Energy is a lot easier said than done--you either force a switch or you have to take a hit. Sure there's some mons, like Rhyperior, that are not staying in, but keep in mind you are Baton Passing Kingdra in, so you won't always have a favorable matchup like that. Sticky Web is fine and all but any Levitator/Flyer (lots of fast ones in OU), and any Scarfer from Timid Rotom-W and up can still outspeed you.

Kingdra's bulk is not great. It's uninvested, so it's not taking too many neutral hits. Remember that to set up your Focus Energy you may have to take a hit, which severely hampers your ability to take more hits.

The other option for Kingdra is Swift Swim, but that requires a dedicated Rain team. It's really good in Rain, but with the Rain nerf and all, it's not as good as it was before. It also requires a dedicated team.

Kingdra requires a lot of support to work. You need Speed control, you need to get it in safely, and let it set up Focus Energy safely, and you have to get rid of stuff like Azumarill and Ferrothorn before thinking about sweeping. IMO, it deserves a B- or C Rank.

 

[epicdrill]

To everyone saying the rain nerf hurt Kingdra: thanks to the DrizzleSwim ban in gen V, I'd say that the rain nerf helped at least as much as it hurt. It buffed it by removing the DrizzleSwim ban, allowing it to have Drizzle support, however, it no longer gets rain-boosted Hydro Pump with another ability. I'd say that the first outweighs the second, even though both are very minor, tbh.

 

[Slashari]

Snippity Snip

Okay, great points-- I see what you're saying. I totally forgot to factor in the amount of team support this thing needs to function perfectly, and, as you exhibited, that isn't always possible. I guess the fact that it 1/2HKO'es a large amount of the tier isn't always relevant when you're so easily outsped and worn down. Plus, in a priority dominated metagame, Kingdra's going to have to take some hits before it dishes them out, or rely on teammates to take out major threats.

 

[Chompx29]

To everyone saying the rain nerf hurt Kingdra: thanks to the DrizzleSwim ban in gen V, I'd say that the rain nerf helped at least as much as it hurt. It buffed it by removing the DrizzleSwim ban, allowing it to have Drizzle support, however, it no longer gets rain-boosted Hydro Pump with another ability. I'd say that the first outweighs the second, even though both are very minor, tbh.

The rain nerf did help Kingdra when compared to what it was at the end of Gen 5, but in all honesty it was pretty trash at then end of that Gen filling a very niche and rather unimportant role. Compared to the beginning of Gen 5 (when Drizzle + SS was legal) it is SIGNIFICANTLY worse. If it wasn't then we would be seeing another Drizzle + SS ban.

So sadly, though I think the crit version of Kingdra has some good wall-breaking viability, I think it should stay rather low on the viability list.

 

[Sturdynips]

This is interesting. While I agree with some of this, I have a few disagreements. Before I say this, I think Excadrill should be A rank.
First, his abilities are not as "amazing" as you make them out to be and are really par at best IMO. Yes, Mold Breaker is huge against Gengar and Rotom, but why would a Gengar switch into an excadrill anyway? Also, sand rush took a huge nerf this generation because sand stream only lasts for five turns. I'm sure I'm not the only person who thinks using Sandstorm itself is a bad move, and trying to rely on a streamer puts you in a tight and limited position. Even worse, as it is not a rock type, it doesn't get that amazing 50% boost to sp. def that Tyranitar does. As for the typing, it is pretty excellent, but weaknesses to moves like High Jump Kick, Fire Blast, Flare Blitz, Surf, Hydro Pump, and EarthQuake hurts, and many common threats use these moves(Garchomp, Talonflame, Landorus-T, the MegaZards, Rotom-W are among them). Something that people often forget is that it does not have very admirable defenses. 115 HP is a godsend, but 60/65 defenses can destroy it. (All of the Pokemon in the parentheses can OHKO it.) It can carry Air Balloon, but that harms it's utility. As for the assault vest, that isn't very helpful since most of its checks are physically inclined. All of the Pokemon in the parentheses except Rotom-W can still OHKO it. And as for Choice Scarf, it can't really spin or set hazards and so loses most of its utility. The thing is that many Pokemon can do this better, such as the aforementioned Landorus-T and the less common Flygon (which has U-turn and higher speed). Finally, with the Swords Dance, it is just crushing that Excadrill receives no decent priority that I know of. Base 88 speed lets you be revenged by a number of things, such as Salamence, Landorus T (again!), Infernape, Talonflame (again!), and others. Neither of these 4 Pokemon can outspeed Excadrill with out a scarf.

I'm not arguing for Excadrill to be moved, I'm fine with it in A or A+ tbh, but you're really underselling it. Firstly, Mold Breaker is a truly excellent ability. You said yourself that Rotom-W and Gengar are vulnerable; this is exactly why it's so good. Rotom-W is a premier Ground-type check, and most teams that pack it generally rely on it to switch into Ground-types. So, with Rotom-W unable to switch in, Flying- and Grass-type Pokemon become really the only way for someone to take an EQ; Flying-types are hit hard by Rock Slide, or take take SR damage. Again, Excadrill can set up SR pretty reliably. As for why Gengar might switch into Excadrill, it is because many offensive teams use Gengar as a spinblocker. The fact that Excadrill demolishes one of the best offensive spinblockers in the tier makes it an excellent spinner. Mold Breaker also is useful in slightly rarer situations against Filter Mega Aggron, Lati@s, and Dragonite. Also, it prevents Magic Bouncers from blocking Stealth Rock. By the way, Air Balloon doesn't harm its "utility", in fact it enhances it by allowing you to switch into the likes of Landorus-T and get a vital Rapid Spin off in a pinch. Remember, Excadrill's primary role as a Mold Breaker Pokemon is to reliably spin away hazards while maintaining a decent offensive presence. As such, Air Balloon is a decent item as it allows Excadrill to perform this role.

In regard to Sand Rush sweeping, Tyranitar and Hippowdon are still great Pokemon so its not like Excadrill will always be without sand support. Likewise, all those Pokemon you listed, barring Lando-T, that can revenge kill a +2 sweeper mole cannot do so when sand is up, which is the only time Excadrill should be running SD.

Scarf Excadrill is silly, lets not go there

 

[Kairyu_Gen1]

Kingdra got a lot this gen. It also lost a bit
It lost it's anti meta game status as a check for rain teams, it also gained a new weakness. But the new rain mechanics made it easier to use Swift Swim, and its Critdra set is fantastic whenever I've used it. Besides SE attacks, not much OHKO's it, so its pretty easy to get at least one set up turn in. I've been using a set with Draco Meteor, Surf, Agility, and Focus Energy (the analysis didn't even have a critdra set when I checked, which I think should be rectified), and is very versatile and capable. Against fast teams it boosts speed and can often sweep, against bulky teams it can Focus Energy and can sometimes sweep. If it gets both off, it usually takes out at least 3 pokemon by itself. Azumarill's the only pokemon I can find that isn't 2HKO'd, so its obviously a great wall breaker, but with its adequate bulk and boosting moves, it also has potential to sweep. I'm not asking for an A rating here. Its not consistent enough and there are better wall breakers, but something in the B range seems fitting

 

[epicdrill]

The rain nerf did help Kingdra when compared to what it was at the end of Gen 5, but in all honesty it was pretty trash at then end of that Gen filling a very niche and rather unimportant role. Compared to the beginning of Gen 5 (when Drizzle + SS was legal) it is SIGNIFICANTLY worse. If it wasn't then we would be seeing another Drizzle + SS ban.

So sadly, though I think the crit version of Kingdra has some good wall-breaking viability, I think it should stay rather low on the viability list.

I guess, although I only played pre-Excadrill ban and post-DrizzleSwim ban for gen 5, nothing in between.

Anyway, was anything ever decided on for Entei? I don't see it in the OP, yet I thought it was placed in B.

 

[escarlata]

I realize, but I was merely stating what I hear people say to justify them using Rotom-W over H. Rotom-H does a many great things, and anti-meta may be what it is.

EDIT: In retrospect I see the fault I had there as I did not begin to go further and say what H could do better over W. I should take that into account in the future for when I post again as it does not help just giving minimal details on the pokemon.

Well to sum things up. Rotom-W is certainly the superior defensive forme, whereas Rotom-H is better as a utility counter, so other than the fact that you can only use one of them, they are not really in direct competition of the roles they play.

 

[Pipotchi]

For one Static Zapdos is inferior to Pressure in almost every way. One of the main things that hits Zapdos is Stone Edge from the likes of Landoru-T or Tyranitar, and this can be stalled out in just 4 turns with pressure. Zapdos can also pull a Sub-Disable Gengar using Pressure by using its pseudo 64 PP on it's sub roost set to guarantee a Sub on the opponent's switch.

Its not inferior in almost every way.. its inferior at being able to stall out stone edge (and even then... not entirely). Static helps to punish u-turn users and also has the bonus of being able to paralyze ground types. Honestly if a Lando-T is incapable of hitting you with eq on a very predictable roost then that's his failure rather than Zapdos' success. Usually if a pokemon is using stone edge he will have earthquake too- and if he's not ground type then you could just volt switch out.
Lastly, you need full hp investment for this. Please dont use Pressure on the offensive sets

Edit: and I always considered Rotom-H a lot more comparable to Heatran as a utility/offensive fire type with defensive potential.

 

[WrightOfWay]

Static versus Pressure on Zapdos doesn't even matter since Static is still unreleased.

 

[Chompx29]

Its not inferior in almost every way.. its inferior at being able to stall out stone edge (and even then... not entirely). Static helps to punish u-turn users and also has the bonus of being able to paralyze ground types. Honestly if a Lando-T is incapable of hitting you with eq on a very predictable roost then that's his failure rather than Zapdos' success. Usually if a pokemon is using stone edge he will have earthquake too- and if he's not ground type then you could just volt switch out.
Lastly, you need full hp investment for this. Please dont use Pressure on the offensive sets

Edit: and I always considered Rotom-H a lot more comparable to Heatran as a utility/offensive fire type with defensive potential.

You seem to forget however, that Zapdos's best set is Sub Roost, not just roost. Which means that he can simply come in on a Lando, Sub 4 times, and win. If Lando doesn't Sedge a Sub at any point, then Zapdos can just Toxic him then and there and continue spamming Sub.

 

[Pipotchi]

You seem to forget however, that Zapdos's best set is Sub Roost, not just roost. Which means that he can simply come in on a Lando, Sub 4 times, and win. If Lando doesn't Sedge a Sub at any point, then Zapdos can just Toxic him then and there and continue spamming Sub.

The role that people were discussing for zapdos was as a defogger- I would assume no-one would ever run substitute and defog together, and with just roost you are fighting a losing battle against stone edge users. This is why I do not advise pressure for a pivot pokemon who will not be staying around very long.
For other sets I can see the benefits of pressure, but honestly I cant see any reason to run it on a defog set.
Not that this argument matters at the moment seeings as Static isnt released.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Worth noting, I got swept once by a Kingdra that got Baton Passed +5 speed and +1 crit chance from Lansat berry by Scolipede. And yes, I did have multiple priority users, a Ferrothorn and I didn't give it free setup turns but nevertheless I got destroyed. That thing OHKO's Mandibuzz from full health like it's nothing. It's got enough bulk to tank priority (I think it was a bulkier spread too since it had Baton Pass support anyway) and HP Fire wrecked my Ferrothorn ._. Not saying that Kingdra is suddenly overpowered or anything, but saying that it requires massive support when just one team member (Scolipede) allows Kingdra to 6-0 you (not even joking) then that's definitely not too much support considering the output.

 

[TheMohZone]

if you pass something +5 speed its probably gonna sweep. if you pass it crit chance as well...how did scolipede live for 8 turns?

 

[Lazybeef]

if you pass something +5 speed its probably gonna sweep. if you pass it crit chance as well...how did scolipede live for 8 turns?

Sub+protect spam?

 

[LoDart210]

Guys what holds jolteon from being a threat in this meta game?

 

[Lazybeef]

Guys what holds jolteon from being a threat in this meta game?

Frailty and lack of coverage, mostly. It is also regarded worse than rotom and both thundurus forms as an electric type. Jolteon is not bad but there are better alternatives for an electric type, so it is rarely seen. B-rank would be fitting for it.

 

[RotomPoison]

Frailty and lack of coverage, mostly. It is also regarded worse than rotom and both thundurus forms as an electric type. Jolteon is not bad but there are better alternatives for an electric type, so it is rarely seen. B-rank would be fitting for it.

Nah,

C Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who can be effective given the right support, but either have crippling flaws that prevent them from consistently executing their strategy or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks.
D Rank: Reserved for Pokemon who have a small niche in the current OU metagame, but have very noticable flaws that make them more trouble then their worth the majority of the time.

One of those, but I guess it can stay in C. It literally says "or are completely eclipsed by a Pokemon in the above ranks"

 

[SJCrew]

Jolteon adds nothing to an OU team offensively or defensively. All it had was Thunder last gen, and it was piss easy to switch in on even then. Life sucks when you're hard countered by both Ferrothorn and Tyranitar, and checked by almost EVERYTHING.

In response to the above poster, it fits no rank as it is deemed non-viable in standard: http://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/jolteon-qc-0-3.3495197/

Check the archives for more Pokemon we aren't ranking: http://www.smogon.com/forums/forums/locked-outdated-analyses.124/

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Guys what holds jolteon from being a threat in this meta game?

Besides the fact that it has no OU Analysis this gen? Being entirely outclassed by Thundurus, Rotom (Heat and Wash Formes), and Mega Manectric and just not being good this gen. I say that it should be blacklisted as a warning to everybody that it isn't getting an Analysis/Ranking, but that's just me. It's been brought up a few times already, so would it hurt anything?

 

[Zellmerz]

shift gear.. and hasty is still standard on scarf

Just out of curiosity, why run hasty over naive? I imagine a drop in spdef is much more preferable to a drop in def to deal with the far more common physical priority, and I dont imagine its so the opposing genesect gets an attack boost when it will most likely be using flamethrower which will ohko anyways, or u-turning which will now be boosted after expecting the switch. I know this question isn't in relation to the threads topic, but i've always been curious about this.

 

[BurningMan]

Just out of curiosity, why run hasty over naive? I imagine a drop in spdef is much more preferable to a drop in def to deal with the far more common physical priority, and I dont imagine its so the opposing genesect gets an attack boost when it will most likely be using flamethrower which will ohko anyways, or u-turning which will now be boosted after expecting the switch. I know this question isn't in relation to the threads topic, but i've always been curious about this.

Because you have to run Hasty since the event Genesect with Extreme Speed and Shift Gear only comes with a Hasty nature and is always shiny. If you aren't using Extreme Speed however you are right that naive is the better choice (although E-Speed is usually just too good to pass up). Hasty also ensure that an opposing Genesect won't get a SpA Download boost.