Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[RotomPoison]

Things that need to stop:

- Chansey vs Blissey
- M-Venusaur dropping (discussion on it is nice but don't ask for it to drop beause it's weak to (Pokemon/type) because everything has some counter
- Stuff on the blacklist people still mention

It's been discussed. It's not changing. Please stop cause it annoys everyone (including me)

Flying is also a type that every good team prepares for anyways, due to Talonflame. It makes sense that in a metagame where bulky offense is the way to go, the Mega that epitomizes that would be S rank. Mega-Venausaur is an amazing wall with only a few pokemon that can reliably take it down. I don't think any other pokemon forces me to play so conservatively as to where I HAVE to keep my answer to it around and gameplan around it, which is not easy to due how hard it is to find a good check/counter that can keep up with its longevity. Definitely Venasaur for S rank.

To add onto this, I actually had a match with MVenusaur vs MVenusaur. It lasted WAY TOO LONG. This thing is also surprising versatile, at least more then you would expect. Is it running Leech Seed? Toxic? Can I switch in my Ferrothorn? What about Sludge Bomb? Can I switch into this, this, or this? It can beat defensive Pokemon with Toxic, or wear some others down with Leech Seed, while Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain can do a surprising amount of damage against things that might be considered switch ins, as some hate status, while others hate being worn down by constantly switching in to take even weaker attacks, especially those without reliable recovery, which btw, Mega Venusaur has (screw you Ferrothorn, you have been replaced.)

Edit: Sleep Powder is cool too

 

[Antibiotic]

Don't forget about Sleep Powder as well. Honestly, I think a Sandstorm team is the best answer to Mega-Venasaur, and will be run more in the future as such.

 

[epicdrill]

List of previously decided on pokemon:
Rotom-H - B+
Blastoise (Mega) - B(-)
Starmie - B(-)
Chandelure - B(-)
Gardevoir (Mega) - B
Latias - A(-)/B+
Latios - A(-)/B+
Hydreigon - B
Staraptor - B
Entei - B(+)
Rotom-W - S
Once again, thanks to sidakarya for compiling the original list, which has been added to since. I will still bump this until ginganinja updates the OP.

 

[Giometry]

Galvantula from B- ==> C
Sticky web is not what we thought it would be and other than that the meta game shifts have not been favorable to the shocking spider. Powerful fire hits like talonflame zard x and darms flare blitzes wreck it and flamethrowers from genesect end It's use as a lead. It's just too frail to support well and not strong enough to go on the offensive. The only reason to use the electric tarantula is sticky web which is underwhelming at best.

Also Epicdrill add zard y for A+ from a couple pages back

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

C honestly sounds like a good spot for Chansey (and even Blissey) in my book-- they just don't accomplish much. The meta's best Special attackers just don't give a shit about them-- except Manaphy I guess.

Thundurus-I (T): Hammer Arm is getting more and more popular for TTar, and Focus Blast still does a lot to both. Taunt presents them with big problems
Landorus-I: Could potentially be physical and destroy them, but even Sheer Force LO Focus Blast 2HKO's both
Special Lucario: lol
Genesect: It just U-turns out, doing massive damage if at +1. There's always the chance it has Gear Shift too.
Deoxys-S: When was the last time you saw an offensive one WITHOUT Superpower?
Manaphy: Blissey/Chansey can counter Manaphy.

Also, I could run Clefable to do everything Blissey/Chansey do better. That's right, I just said Clefable outclasses Blissey/Chansey, lol-- never thought I'd see the day, but there it is.

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 213-252 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 278-330 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 260-307 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 177-208 (25.1 - 29.5%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 283-335 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

All 3HKO's after Stealth Rock. Thundurus-I can sometimes 2HKO with Hammer Arm after SR though, I'll give you that. If you're going to base your post around (hidden) calcs, then at least make sure you're using accurate ones. What you did doesn't really add to your credibility. Especially if you're going to make statements like "Clefable does everything better than Blissey/Chansey". Also, putting Blissey and Chansey - Fighting-move magnets to say the least - against Lucario to try to prove a point is... questionable.

 

[Numera]

List of previously decided on pokemon:
Rotom-H - B+
Blastoise (Mega) - B(-)
Starmie - B(-)
Chandelure - B(-)
Gardevoir (Mega) - B
Latias - A(-)/B+
Latios - A(-)/B+
Hydreigon - B
Staraptor - B
Entei - B(+)
Rotom-W - S
Once again, thanks to sidakarya for compiling the original list, which has been added to since. I will still bump this until ginganinja updates the OP.

Before this gets updated, why do you all think the lati twins are B+? Im not going to argue, im just interested to see why.

Apart from the Lati twins i completely agree with this list.

I also find it kinda funny that people think Deo S isnt S rank. people seem to think all it does is set hazards. This is incorrect. It is capable of alot offensively too, trust me.

 

[Triskili]

Tanky Duck should be up there. Pory2's versatility to being an SpDuck, Defensive Duck, Trick Room Duck, and the not-so-common offensive duck, the duck is useful. Being a normal type has some advantages defensively since a lot the ghosts are appearing more than usual.

Despite all the positives floating around the Duck, Pory2 does have some counters. Counters such as status crippling moves, fighting-type moves or getting knock-off/ trick'd /switcheroo'd (these are from the top of my head). It doesn't synergize too much with a handful of pokemon in terms of cores (going from the analysis, Pory2 is more like "glue" to a team. Can prove it's worth but not really needed) but it should be around the B-range. ^^

 

[KztxL7]

the reason that I put Deoxys-S is A+ is because I consider S a "special tier". The pokemon that deserves S rank are exclusively the pokemon that are too good that had no counters whatsover and very few checks, that can destroy team easily, that could be suspected. This is the reason why I don't see Deoxys-S is S-rank for me. Remembered that he is UU (even though it's clearly broken here).

If Deoxys-S is S-rank Mega Venusaur is S-rank. But in that case, I think that Rotom-W is S-rank (Grass-types rare, key resistances, perfect pivot, metagame designed for him) and possibly Heatran (has a lot of viable sets, among them 5 viable attacking fire attacks, an be defensive or offensive, key resistances (and between them a 1/4 resistant to fairy, which is unique to him, the pokemon less affected by resist more Ghost and Dark speial attaks after the steel nerf, can use gimmicky sets (Sun Teams*, Mixed Tran) or adapt to gimmicky environment (Trick Room). Also two of his weakness are not that common right now).

I'm going to do an analysis check of standard Roserade vs common OU threads to see the results and if they deserved the rank that I posted.

*When I said Sun teams, I said teams made with sun on mind that have more than Mega Charizard Y to abuse sun that including back ups with Ninetales and Sunny Day setters (with Heatran does well) to fully abuse the weather.

Pokemon that you consider S with those standards are pretty much banned into Ubers.

Deoxys-S is S rank because its damn near impossible from stopping it from doing what it wants to do. It has the fastest non-Priority Taunt and has access to Magic Coat so its great against Priority Taunters that think they can stop it. While 95/95 may not be the greatest attacking stats, it has a great movepool on both sides (with access to Knock Off) and 180 Base Speed definitely allows you to invest Offensively. Considering its most likely going to be leading, you really can't tell what it'll do beforehand.

Sure its in UU, but usage does not equal power/decency.

Mega Venusaur is S-Rank by the way and I think they also came to the conclusion that Rotom-W is S-Rank as well. The Opening Post just hasn't been updated in awhile.

 

[Antibiotic]

Also Epicdrill add zard y for A+ from a couple pages back

I went back a little bit to try and find that discussion, but didn't. Why would Zard Y be A+ if Zard X is? Y has a much greater hinderance to it, that 4X weakness to stealth rock. Both have comparable power, but Y is much more limited on its opportunities throughout a game because of this, and when they are in, Zard X can also setup, whereas you pretty much just go full nuke with Y. Which is the next potential weakness of Y, is that if the opponent has a Tyranitar to setup the weather (Politoed as well, although people haven't gotten back to using rain teams yet,) then Charizard loses a bunch of power with fire blast, and can no longer spam solarbeam. I know Tyranitar is not a safe switch in, but the point is that Y has more potential to be hindered, and is not as threatening as it lacks a great setup move like the 'mons above it. Coupled with the fact that it requires more focus on support due to its stealth rock weakness, I don't see how Y reaches the same A+ level that Zard X does. It also lacks priority, its speed is good but not great, and is not as powerful as sweepers that can setup. When Stealth Rock deters switching out, it's problematic that you can be revenge killed easily by faster pokemon, and priority if you are weak enough.

Before this gets updated, why do you all think the lati twins are B+? Im not going to argue, im just interested to see why.

I think the biggest pro for Lati@s right now is that they are great users of defog, while also threatening with both strong attacks (draco) and their speed. Not to mention they have good bulk, and their movesets can be unpredictable (trick is still great on them.) Aegislash is a very threatening pokemon for them, and although they still get hurt by (the less common) pursuit, they are generally very reliable, posses great stats/ability, and their psyshock is a great check to Mega-Venusaur and AV Conkeldurr, 2 pokemon who are very common and extremely threatening in the metagame.

 

[RotomPoison]

Sure its in UU, but usage does not equal power/decency.

I think the biggest pro for Lati@s right now is that they are great users of defog, while also threatening with both strong attacks (draco) and their speed. Not to mention they have good bulk, and their movesets can be unpredictable (trick is still great on them.) Aegislash is a very threatening pokemon for them, and although they still get hurt by (the less common) pursuit, they are generally very reliable, posses great stats/ability, and are their psyshock is a great check to Mega-Venusaur and AV Conkeldurr, 2 pokemon who are very common and extremely threatening in the metagame.

Pursuit is MORE common now (usage vs Poke based anyway) because TTar, Scizor, and a few uncommon users are everywhere. Latias using Psyshock lose another coverage move or Defog, or even Roost (please no) and depending on the EVs, may not actually beat it. Super effective =/= OHKO. Super effective simply means 2x damage, not autowin. Also, Latios/Latias have terrible defensive typing and mediocre Defense (80 and 90, which when paired with only a decent HP stat, try taking any Sucker Punch from Bisharp or Shadow Ball+Sneak from Aegislash well at all, let alone win 1v1)

ginganinja please drop Malamar more

 

[Haze Milotic]

I'm honestly too lazy to go through the 99 pages of posting, but I would like to nominate Sableye for B- or maybe even B. If it has already been nominated, and I just haven't seen it, I apologize, but I think Sableye is good enough to be at least in the B rank. I've deconstructed teams with Sableye, and in a metagame that boasts a lot of strong physical attackers, priority Will O Wisp is amazing, especially with priority Taunt and priority Recover, Sableye can shut down multiple Pokémon, and serves as a great check to physical attackers, as they need to be doing more than 50% damage per turn. Foul Play also wrecks setup 'mons, and I have netted multiple OHKO's against Mega Lucario's, and even if I activate Justified, they get the boost and you get a harder hitting Foul Play the next turn.

So yeah, I would like to nominate Sableye for B, B-, or C. Whichever you guys think would be best.

 

[SHUCKLE MAN]

252 SpA Life Orb Thundurus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 213-252 (30.2 - 35.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Life Orb Thundurus Hammer Arm vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 278-330 (39.4 - 46.8%) -- 38.7% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 SpA Life Orb Sheer Force Landorus Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 260-307 (36.9 - 43.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
+1 4 Atk Genesect U-turn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 177-208 (25.1 - 29.5%) -- 0.5% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Life Orb Deoxys-S Superpower vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 283-335 (40.1 - 47.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

All 3HKO's after Stealth Rock. Thundurus-I can sometimes 2HKO with Hammer Arm after SR though, I'll give you that. If you're going to base your post around (hidden) calcs, then at least make sure you're using accurate ones. What you did doesn't really add to your credibility. Especially if you're going to make statements like "Clefable does everything better than Blissey/Chansey". Also, putting Blissey and Chansey - Fighting-move magnets to say the least - against Lucario to try to prove a point is... questionable.

I agree. There was a similar discussion in another thread recently about this, and I really don't think dealing with Chansey is as simple as having a Fighting move on a special sweeper. Especially not Superpower, it might do a lot the first turn, but if Chansey Soft-boileds the same turn, it will usually end up forcing the Pokemon out eventually. If you end up in a Hammer Arm/Softboiled cycle eventually Chansey will end up going first, which makes its life a lot easier. Not to if it misses it gives Chansey an extra free turn to status, Wish, SToss, Aromatherapy or whatever. Close Combat is probably the best one since it's accurate, the defense drops don't matter so much if you're trying to wear down a Chansey, and it doesn't get weaker each time like Superpower, so can consistently out-damage Softboiled. Focus Punch could be good for hitting Chansey and Blissey hard on the switch-in I suppose.

 

[jc104]

I don't understand why some people seem to think that charizard should be in S if the X and Y mega forms are included together, but not if they are considered separately. The usage of charizard y is still a major contributor to the value of charizard x and vice versa, regardless of whether they are ranked together. Frankly, I find charizard the scariest thing in the game right now. Neither form has any good counters, and the things that come close can't check both at all. Both of the charizard forms are S rank for me.

Also, I have to agree that deoxys-s does not belong in S rank. You can't stop it doing what it wants to do? What, set up stealth rock? What it wants to do is simply not that good, and is easily reversed. Having used a deoxys-s on the ladder for a bit, it would generally not get up even a single layer of spikes, and much of the time that it did, they would be defogged away. Yes, you can try to apply high offensive pressure, or pack a bisharp, but this is actually a high degree of team support, or at least a very specific team build. The pokemon that are at the top of the rankings should not be niche pokemon, they should be pokemon that can be successfully put onto the majority of teams. Regarding the offensive set, I do think it's good, but it's fairly easy to wall, and in revenge killing roles, my current preference is heavily weighted towards priority, since so many of the offensive pokemon have it themselves.

 

[Antibiotic]

Pursuit is MORE common now (usage vs Poke based anyway) because TTar, Scizor, and a few uncommon users are everywhere. Latias using Psyshock lose another coverage move or Defog, or even Roost (please no) and depending on the EVs, may not actually beat it. Super effective =/= OHKO. Super effective simply means 2x damage, not autowin. Also, Latios/Latias have terrible defensive typing and mediocre Defense (80 and 90, which when paired with only a decent HP stat, try taking any Sucker Punch from Bisharp or Shadow Ball+Sneak from Aegislash well at all, let alone win 1v1)

ginganinja please drop Malamar more

I guess we've been playing different people, as pursuit use now vs last gen seems WAY down to me. But, I might just not be running into it enough, and I specifically mentioned it because it is their biggest weakness, and the reason I don't think they should go any higher. Obviously you have to give up coverage if you want to run a Defog set with them, and that comes with consequences, but they are still great users of the move. When I talk about their bulk, I meant it comparatively to other hazard cleaners, such as Excadrill and Starmie, who can both be taken out fairly easily. Mandibuzz is definitely bulkier, but lacks the same speed and power that gives Lati@s their presence. You can still run life orb or something if you want to abuse their offensive potential, but I was mainly pointing out they have a combination of speed, offensive power, and bulk (even though they are weak defensively, they posses a min 110 base SpDef, 1 immunity, and 6(?) resistances) that other pokemon that want to use defog/rapid spin can't compete for. Citing Bisharp and Aegislash as beating them 1v1 is dumb. Of course there are pokemon that beat them. I'm sure both of them would love being tricked a Choice Specs/Scarf though. In regards to Psyshock vs venu/conk, I didn't say it had to OHKO. It does however, do a considerable amount of damage to them, and thus makes them good checks to 2 very threatening pokemon.

Oh, by the way,
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 354-421 (100.5 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Stop Herp'a'Derpin me like I don't know what super effective means, and that I think they will beat Bisharp/Aegi.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Jesus, is ginganinja the new Jontron when saying they should update more?

Also, I have to agree that deoxys-s does not belong in S rank. You can't stop it doing what it wants to do? What, set up stealth rock?

Regarding the offensive set, I do think it's good, but it's fairly easy to wall, and in revenge killing roles, my current preference is heavily weighted towards priority

Welcome to the internet! You must be new here.

Deoxys-S, pardon the pun, DOES put plenty of pressure on the opponent. Do you know what it will do? Oh look, a Fire Punch! That says EVERYTHING about it (sarcasm)! You don't know what it will do until the turn after. You can guess with Pokemon like Gengar, Excadrill, etc. Deoxys-S is a different can of worms compared to these threats. Unlike Pokemon like Chansey and Blissey that support with either Wish or Aromatherapy, Deoxys-S can set hazards, screens, TrickScarf, Set Rain up, or go All-Out Offense. Also, in regards to damage done by Deoxys-S, I've posted calcs earlier and it only fails against the bulkiest of walls (I'm looking at you, Chansey). It can usually 2HKO Physically Defensive Rotom-W with a combination of Psycho Boost and Superpower, OHKO Physically Defensive Mega Venusaur, Scizor, Tyranitar, and Dragonite aren't good switch-ins as they risk a OHKO-2HKO from the appropriate move...the point is Super-Effective coverage that only the bulkiest of Pokemon can survive. Offensive Sets are hell against Hyper-Offense and Hazard sets are useful in general. Why can't people understand?

 

[Numera]

I don't understand why some people seem to think that charizard should be in S if the X and Y mega forms are included together, but not if they are considered separately. The usage of charizard y is still a major contributor to the value of charizard x and vice versa, regardless of whether they are ranked together. Frankly, I find charizard the scariest thing in the game right now. Neither form has any good counters, and the things that come close can't check both at all. Both of the charizard forms are S rank for me.

Also, I have to agree that deoxys-s does not belong in S rank. You can't stop it doing what it wants to do? What, set up stealth rock? What it wants to do is simply not that good, and is easily reversed. Having used a deoxys-s on the ladder for a bit, it would generally not get up even a single layer of spikes, and much of the time that it did, they would be defogged away. Yes, you can try to apply high offensive pressure, or pack a bisharp, but this is actually a high degree of team support, or at least a very specific team build. The pokemon that are at the top of the rankings should not be niche pokemon, they should be pokemon that can be successfully put onto the majority of teams. Regarding the offensive set, I do think it's good, but it's fairly easy to wall, and in revenge killing roles, my current preference is heavily weighted towards priority, since so many of the offensive pokemon have it themselves.

STOP

this is exactly what annoys me. The argument of they get defoged away is so crappy. You can aplly that to any hazards setter. So pretty much you think all hazard setters suck.

Its not a niche pokemon. Its so versitile its not even funny. It can do soooo much. Dual Screen, Hazards, Offense,Trcick ,i have even used specs once, its not even funny.

It fits S perfectly. It is able to be supportive with very little free turn when using the hazards set, and offensive sets can indeed wipe out a large portion of the meta. Its also extreamly versitile, so if you ask me thats perfect for S rank. It fits the S rank requirements to a tee.

 

[RotomPoison]

I guess we've been playing different people, as pursuit use now vs last gen seems WAY down to me. But, I might just not be running into it enough, and I specifically mentioned it because it is their biggest weakness, and the reason I don't think they should go any higher. Obviously you have to give up coverage if you want to run a Defog set with them, and that comes with consequences, but they are still great users of the move. When I talk about their bulk, I meant it comparatively to other hazard cleaners, such as Excadrill and Starmie, who can both be taken out fairly easily. Mandibuzz is definitely bulkier, but lacks the same speed and power that gives Lati@s their presence. You can still run life orb or something if you want to abuse their offensive potential, but I was mainly pointing out they have a combination of speed, offensive power, and bulk (even though they are weak defensively, they posses a min 110 base SpDef, 1 immunity, and 6(?) resistances) that other pokemon that want to use defog/rapid spin can't compete for. Citing Bisharp and Aegislash as beating them 1v1 is dumb. Of course there are pokemon that beat them. I'm sure both of them would love being tricked a Choice Specs/Scarf though. In regards to Psyshock vs venu/conk, I didn't say it had to OHKO. It does however, do a considerable amount of damage to them, and thus makes them good checks to 2 very threatening pokemon.

Oh, by the way,
252 SpA Life Orb Latios Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 354-421 (100.5 - 119.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Stop Herp'a'Derpin me like I don't know what super effective means, and that I think they will beat Bisharp/Aegi.

Stop proving my points when you're supposed to be against them from what you're saying. Also, try beating VENUSAUR like I told you.

 

[mertyville]

This generation should have made people realise that Deoxys-S can function as a really dangerous offensive threat. It is like Talonflame. Sure, it doesn't have priority Brave Bird, but it has insane speed, better offensive stats, decent enough bulk and great offensive movepool. It can outspeed most scarfers without even a speed nature and has access to Espeed for revange killing purposes. The only bumber is, the increased amount of dark and ghost typ moves running around, aspecially priority.
But what really makes Deoxys-S worth being S-Rank is, that you can't predict that easiely what Deoxys-S might be running, because it can do so many roles...well, ok, with so many people only running suicide lead Deoxys-S, that won't be hard to predict after all...but that should be besides the point lol

btw, I am shocked that Chansey got A-Rank thought Rotom-W being one of the most reliable pokemon in this meta and used and the increase in usability of Knock off. Many have already brought this argument already. I don't even consider Blissey over A-Rank, but it is way more reliable than Chansey. Not to mention, it can scare off some physical threats, from being switched in, by being able to have either flamethrower or ice beam as offensive more. And unlike Chansey, it is still effective after its item is removed or knocked off, thanks to its great natural bulk and reliable recovery moves in Soft-Boiled or Wish. Speaking of Wish, it can pass the greatest amount of HP through Wish, being able to heal up most teammates that have low HP to the point, where it could have been KOed by tackle.

 

[Antibiotic]

Stop proving my points when you're supposed to be against them from what you're saying. Also, try beating VENUSAUR like I told you.

What are your points? That a couple of pokemon beat it? I was responding to someone asking why Lati@s was B rank, so I posted about how I thought they were great defoggers, but are weak against certain things like pursuit. You are contributing nothing, other than saying that Aegislash and Bisharp beat them, and that it can't OHKO Mega-Venusaur. Stating their weaknesses that makes them only B rank is not "proving your point," as you have done nothing to respond to their strengths. Post something that is actually constructive as to where they should be ranked, and then I can actually respond to what you have to say.

 

[Numera]

What are your points? That a couple of pokemon beat it? I was responding to someone asking why Lati@s was B rank, so I posted about how I thought they were great defoggers, but are weak against certain things like pursuit. You are contributing nothing, other than saying that Aegislash and Bisharp beat them, and that it can't OHKO Mega-Venusaur. Stating their weaknesses that makes them only B rank is not "proving your point," as you have done nothing to respond to their strengths. Post something that is actually constructive as to where they should be ranked, and then I can actually respond to what you have to say.

Actully, i wasnt asking why they were B+ rank in terms of being good, i was asking why they were not A rank.

 

[Antibiotic]

See above: They are pursuit weak, and allow Aegislash, an S rank pokemon, to come in and potentially setup. Draco is less spammable now because of fairies, and the prevalence of knock off is an unfortunate threat. They still have great utility though, being the fastest dragons in the tier, along with their versatility.

 

[typon77]

STOP

this is exactly what annoys me. The argument of they get defoged away is so crappy. You can aplly that to any hazards setter. So pretty much you think all hazard setters suck.

Its not a niche pokemon. Its so versitile its not even funny. It can do soooo much. Dual Screen, Hazards, Offense,Trcick ,i have even used specs once, its not even funny.

It fits S perfectly. It is able to be supportive with very little free turn when using the hazards set, and offensive sets can indeed wipe out a large portion of the meta. Its also extreamly versitile, so if you ask me thats perfect for S rank. It fits the S rank requirements to a tee.

Don't tell people to stop when they actually have valid points and yours use lackluster support with a condescending tone.

Deoxy-S actually isn't the pokemon it used to be because, go figure, HAZARD SETTERS AREN'T AS GOOD AS THEY USED TO BE. Deoxy-S's role as a suicide-esque hazard lead isn't nearly as effective because hazards are so easy to remove, and Deoxy rarely has the chance to set up hazards more than once without costing a huge amount of momentum and dying in the process. I've noticed similar things that jc noticed about Deoxys, and I've actually found Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S about equally as effective, since Deoxys-D can actually force a few things out and also set up hazards midgame without /completely/ destroying momentum.

I'm on the fence about Deoxys-S in S Rank, but I honestly don't really care if it stays. I actually am considering proposing an increase of Deoxys-D to A+ but I know I'll just get hit with a "Outclassed by Deoxys-S lolol not fast enough" so I'll save that for another time.

 

[RotomPoison]

Don't tell people to stop when they actually have valid points and yours use lackluster support with a condescending tone.

Deoxy-S actually isn't the pokemon it used to be because, go figure, HAZARD SETTERS AREN'T AS GOOD AS THEY USED TO BE. Deoxy-S's role as a suicide-esque hazard lead isn't nearly as effective because hazards are so easy to remove, and Deoxy rarely has the chance to set up hazards more than once without costing a huge amount of momentum and dying in the process. I've noticed similar things that jc noticed about Deoxys, and I've actually found Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S about equally as effective, since Deoxys-D can actually force a few things out and also set up hazards midgame without /completely/ destroying momentum.

I'm on the fence about Deoxys-S in S Rank, but I honestly don't really care if it stays. I actually am considering proposing an increase of Deoxys-D to A+ but I know I'll just get hit with a "Outclassed by Deoxys-S lolol not fast enough" so I'll save that for another time.

Yet you completely ignore the fact it can do nearly anything else.

 

[Antibiotic]

Yet you completely ignore the fact it can do nearly anything else.

I'm on the fence about Deoxys-S in S Rank, but I honestly don't really care if it stays.

Do you really think that he would be on the fence about Deoxys being S rank if he didn't acknowledge what else it is capable of? Never in his post talking about how the Hazard lead has lost its effectiveness did he discount other Deoxys sets. If you're not trolling, you need to actually read what people are posting here and try to post something constructive, instead of what you're doing.

 

[typon77]

Yet you completely ignore the fact it can do nearly anything else.

I know its versatility is important, but let's face it, if its hazards/screens "lead" sets aren't the reason we fear it so much, then I don't know what else to say. It's offensive sets are effective, especially when you don't expect them, but I'm just simply questioning if it has what it takes to stay in S-Rank. I'm not saying it sucks or it should drop, just throwing a point out there to start some discussion and see some other opinions. I'm curious what you think about it, considering you replied with a one line response that gave no information and no support. I didn't "completely ignore the fact it can do nearly anything else", but simply stated that its best set by far from previous generations isn't nearly is good. I'd like to hear more about what you think specifically about offensive sets for discussion purposes, so if you have some support or calculations, please inform me, because my opinion isn't very set in stone (I didn't even advocate for a drop, I actually want to see some opinions with good support as to why it truly is S-Rank).