Other XY OU Viability Ranking Thread (B- and C+ Pokemon discussion)

[Numera]

Don't tell people to stop when they actually have valid points and yours use lackluster support with a condescending tone.

Deoxy-S actually isn't the pokemon it used to be because, go figure, HAZARD SETTERS AREN'T AS GOOD AS THEY USED TO BE. Deoxy-S's role as a suicide-esque hazard lead isn't nearly as effective because hazards are so easy to remove, and Deoxy rarely has the chance to set up hazards more than once without costing a huge amount of momentum and dying in the process. I've noticed similar things that jc noticed about Deoxys, and I've actually found Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S about equally as effective, since Deoxys-D can actually force a few things out and also set up hazards midgame without /completely/ destroying momentum.

I'm on the fence about Deoxys-S in S Rank, but I honestly don't really care if it stays. I actually am considering proposing an increase of Deoxys-D to A+ but I know I'll just get hit with a "Outclassed by Deoxys-S lolol not fast enough" so I'll save that for another time.

excuse me. Please dont put up oints that are bad.

Don't tell people to stop when they actually have valid points and yours use lackluster support with a condescending tone.

Deoxy-S actually isn't the pokemon it used to be because, go figure, HAZARD SETTERS AREN'T AS GOOD AS THEY USED TO BE. Deoxy-S's role as a suicide-esque hazard lead isn't nearly as effective because hazards are so easy to remove, and Deoxy rarely has the chance to set up hazards more than once without costing a huge amount of momentum and dying in the process. I've noticed similar things that jc noticed about Deoxys, and I've actually found Deoxys-D and Deoxys-S about equally as effective, since Deoxys-D can actually force a few things out and also set up hazards midgame without /completely/ destroying momentum.

I'm on the fence about Deoxys-S in S Rank, but I honestly don't really care if it stays. I actually am considering proposing an increase of Deoxys-D to A+ but I know I'll just get hit with a "Outclassed by Deoxys-S lolol not fast enough" so I'll save that for another time.

Please acknolage how i posted about offensive sets as you only seem to mention the hazards set here. Remeber how versitile this thing is? thats why its S rank. Infact thats 1 of many reasons that were in the post you quoted.

EDIT: didnt see the post you pot above, sorry about that :/.

Oh and tbh, the hazards set may not be the best one. Its either that or the offensive one. IL get some calcs later.

 

[jc104]

If the opponent doesn't lead with deoxys-s, you pretty much know it's not going to be the hazard lead and is unlikely to be dual screens. As far as I'm concerned, pokemon on the rankings are only as good as their best set. That they can have other sets sometimes makes the best set better (like charizard and mega luke) but for deo-s I don't feel this is the case. Honestly, I don't think the hazard lead is actually the best set, because as I said, it usually dies in my experience having set up only one layer or SR. I mean, just take a look at the usage stats, and it is patently obvious that most teams will have a way to limit hazards lead deo-s to SR only, usually not even having to risk their tyranitar or genesect.

Aegislash, apart from anything else, completely wrecks every kind of deoxys s. You can absolutely deal with everything it can do and you can stop it from doing its job, mostly. A u-turn or even a strong volt switch can take out deo-s when following by a priority move. And I just can't understand how defog can be dismissed. As far as SR is concerned, I get it; one turn to set up, one to remove, that's a net gain pretty much any way you look at it. But as soon as you spend two turns setting up hazards, defog just makes you feel silly. Rapid spin is pretty damn easy too. So simply put, you are making a net loss against anybody that puts even the slightest effort to counter deo-s, and to fight against this, one requires a very heavy degree of offensive pressure, one that speaks more of the pokemon applying the pressure than the pokemon supplying the hazards. And can you apply this to every hazard setter? Probably. Because deo-s tends to suicide, I think it applies to him in particular, but if it applied to every hazard setter, would that make what I said wrong? Maybe every hazard setter does suck?

Using an offensive deoxys-s and leading with it did produce a number of nice kills, I'll admit. I still think deo-s is a very good pokemon, A rank probably. It just isn't going to break walls or sweep very often; it provides surprise KOs and insurance against sweepers, albeit far fewer than it would in previous gens. Neither of these things really falls under the S rank criteria.

 

[PrincessDerpy]

Don't forget about Sleep Powder as well. Honestly, I think a Sandstorm team is the best answer to Mega-Venasaur, and will be run more in the future as such.

Noooooo, please don't give them ideaaaas D:

 

[TrippingRocks]

In my experience, Deoxys-S is LEAST effective when you use him as a hazard setter. Seriously, don't use him as a hazard setter. He's got the greatest base speed in the tier and all you can think of is setting rocks with him? Why do you even need to be that fast to set-up hazards? To outspeed Aerodactyl? Barely anybody runs taunt Aerodactyl anymore in OU. Maybe in the 4th gen, but in the 6th gen? Not a chance. It's easier to get rid of hazards too. Dedicating an entire pokemon just to set up hazards doesn't really cut it anymore in this gen. Plus Deoxys-D is a heck a lot more reliable. Maybe he's not as fast as Deoxys-S, but he's fast enough to stop taunts from relevant pokemon like Mandibuzz. Hazard Setting Deoxys-S still gets shut down by magic bounce, just like any other hazard setter. Deoxys-S is only distinguishable as a hazard setter due to his fast speed, which still makes him slower than priority hazard setter Klefki. Getting rid of hazards is easier than ever in this generation. Priority, something that bypasses Deoxys-S and his great speed, is more relevant than ever in this generation, with the re-introduction of prankster Thundurus in OU along with some new priority users like Talonflame and Aegislash.


If you're going to use Deoxys-S, use his offensive set. It makes him a great revenge killer, allowing him to outspeed Scarfed Garchomp. Just keep him away from priority and don't expect him to OHKO bulky pokemon. His massive offensive pool includes BoltBeam Coverage, Superpower, Energy ball, and Extremespeed. Slap on his STAB, pick any of the other 3 moves, and go to town with offensive Deoxys-S. That's his best set by far.

 

[Liarliarpantsonfire]

Deoxys-S is the fastest pokemon ingame and it can abuse this in many different ways. This alone warrants S rank. The offensive set is difficult to switch into without dedicated walls, as resists are prone to being taken out by a coverage move (e.g. T-tar and Superpower, Genesect and Fire Punch). The hazard lead set is unmatched: It can usually get up two layers, and it can prevent Defog with Taunt. Same with the Dual Screens set, which makes Hyper Offense viable (Stuff like Azelf/Uxie/Deoxys-D can achieve similar results, but in the end Deoxys-S's speed makes it superior and a lot more reliable). It's just a great pokemon in general, S rank is really a proper place for it.

 

[KztxL7]

If the opponent doesn't lead with deoxys-s, you pretty much know it's not going to be the hazard lead and is unlikely to be dual screens. As far as I'm concerned, pokemon on the rankings are only as good as their best set. That they can have other sets sometimes makes the best set better (like charizard and mega luke) but for deo-s I don't feel this is the case. Honestly, I don't think the hazard lead is actually the best set, because as I said, it usually dies in my experience having set up only one layer or SR. I mean, just take a look at the usage stats, and it is patently obvious that most teams will have a way to limit hazards lead deo-s to SR only, usually not even having to risk their tyranitar or genesect.

Aegislash, apart from anything else, completely wrecks every kind of deoxys s. You can absolutely deal with everything it can do and you can stop it from doing its job, mostly. A u-turn or even a strong volt switch can take out deo-s when following by a priority move. And I just can't understand how defog can be dismissed. As far as SR is concerned, I get it; one turn to set up, one to remove, that's a net gain pretty much any way you look at it. But as soon as you spend two turns setting up hazards, defog just makes you feel silly. Rapid spin is pretty damn easy too. So simply put, you are making a net loss against anybody that puts even the slightest effort to counter deo-s, and to fight against this, one requires a very heavy degree of offensive pressure, one that speaks more of the pokemon applying the pressure than the pokemon supplying the hazards. And can you apply this to every hazard setter? Probably. Because deo-s tends to suicide, I think it applies to him in particular, but if it applied to every hazard setter, would that make what I said wrong? Maybe every hazard setter does suck?

Using an offensive deoxys-s and leading with it did produce a number of nice kills, I'll admit. I still think deo-s is a very good pokemon, A rank probably. It just isn't going to break walls or sweep very often; it provides surprise KOs and insurance against sweepers, albeit far fewer than it would in previous gens. Neither of these things really falls under the S rank criteria.

Deoxys-S gets Shadow Ball and Aegislash can't even OHKO it with Shadow Sneak with Max Atk investment and a +Atk Nature unless it has a Life Orb. (and lolphysicalaegislash)

You can only deal with Deoxys-S after you know what its doing. Similar to Mega-Lucario. Difference being that its versatility is far greater.

Defog costs the opponent a turn after they sit there fishing for an opening and that turn can be just the opening you can abuse for Bisharp/a Boosting Sweeper like Charizard X or Dragonite.

 

[jc104]

Deoxys-S gets Shadow Ball and Aegislash can't even OHKO it with Shadow Sneak with Max Atk investment and a +Atk Nature unless it has a Life Orb. (and lolphysicalaegislash)

You can only deal with Deoxys-S after you know what its doing. Similar to Mega-Lucario. Difference being that its versatility is far greater.

Defog costs the opponent a turn after they sit there fishing for an opening and that turn can be just the opening you can abuse for Bisharp/a Boosting Sweeper like Charizard X or Dragonite.

252 SpA Life Orb Deoxys-S Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 130-153 (40.1 - 47.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

Worst case scenario, pretty much. Most Deo-S do not have shadow ball, max special attack or life orb.

edit: and while deo-s might have the best speed, it is not effectively the fastest because it usually lacks priority (its extremespeed is rather weak and the coverage lost very significant). Priority is absolutely everywhere.

 

[Giometry]

I went back a little bit to try and find that discussion, but didn't. Why would Zard Y be A+ if Zard X is? Y has a much greater hinderance to it, that 4X weakness to stealth rock. Both have comparable power, but Y is much more limited on its opportunities throughout a game because of this, and when they are in, Zard X can also setup, whereas you pretty much just go full nuke with Y. Which is the next potential weakness of Y, is that if the opponent has a Tyranitar to setup the weather (Politoed as well, although people haven't gotten back to using rain teams yet,) then Charizard loses a bunch of power with fire blast, and can no longer spam solarbeam. I know Tyranitar is not a safe switch in, but the point is that Y has more potential to be hindered, and is not as threatening as it lacks a great setup move like the 'mons above it. Coupled with the fact that it requires more focus on support due to its stealth rock weakness, I don't see how Y reaches the same A+ level that Zard X does. It also lacks priority, its speed is good but not great, and is not as powerful as sweepers that can setup. When Stealth Rock deters switching out, it's problematic that you can be revenge killed easily by faster pokemon, and priority if you are weak enough.

It wasn't just a few pages back its been brought up many times and never been disputed until now.
First off X is a sweeper Y is a wallbreaker like mega chomp and kyurem-b it's not meant to sweep its meant to punch huge holes in the opponents team which it does better than anyone not named aegislash. Also Ttar should not be switching in as Y often runs focus blast mainly for ttar itself. Politoed is not truly a counter as Y still hits hard with focus blast after rains up but what happens to a toed once y switches into it. It switches out or dies as it is all but useless with sun up. Also Y is the second fastest wall breaker in the game falling short of only specs keldeo while also packing the most punch thanks to its sun boosted fire blasts.
It's role is similar to that of Kyogre in ubers both use huge spatk and self summoning weather to hit hard with boosted stabs. If Y doesn't fit the description of A+ Wallbreaker then what does?

Dear Arceus Deo-S is becoming the new Venusaur. This has been discussed way too much already and a consensus has been reached in all of them Deo S is S rank end of story. This needs to move on to new pokes.

 

[TooMuchSugar]

Some random stuff from the analysis list

> B-/C+
Breloom kinda got screwed this gen, with the Spore nerf and the Low Sweep "buff" to 65 BP, not to mention all the flying-type priority all over the place. He's still decently effective with most of his sets though, and technician mach punch and bullet seed are as obnoxious as ever.

> D
Literally the only reason this guy got used last gen was weather wars. Now that that's over with (thank god) I'm not sure what you would even use him for - I guess to trap Tyranitar if you're really worried about it?

> B+/B/B-
I haven't used or seen Kyurem yet, but he can only have benefited from the increased emphasis on bulk and power and decreased emphasis on speed. His only major problem now is being partly outclassed by Kyurem-B (Mold Breaker is surprisingly useful on special sets).

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Dear Arceus Deo-S is becoming the new Venusaur. This has been discussed way too much already and a consensus has been reached in all of them Deo S is S rank end of story. This needs to move on to new pokes.

I second this. Well, time to think of a Pokemon getting a breakdo--hey, Whimsicott!

I personally think Whimsicott should be B-/C+/C. As a Leech Seed/Powder user, it's generally outclassed by Mega Venusaur. As far as Prankster goes, Sableye and Thundurus have consistently good results in comparison. In short...yeah, is that Fairy Typing REALLY doing it well?

View attachment 7616 > B+/B/B-
I haven't used or seen Kyurem yet, but he can only have benefited from the increased emphasis on bulk and power and decreased emphasis on speed. His only major problem now is being partly outclassed by Kyurem-B (Mold Breaker is surprisingly useful on special sets).

Kyurem's typing defensively is a double-edged sword. On one hand, you have resists to Water, Grass, and Electric. On the other, its weaknesses are irritating. Fight, Steel, Dragon, Rock, and Fairy Weaknesses can be annoying to have, especially with a Meta dominated by Pokemon with these attack types. However, with Stealth Rock less of a problem, Kyurem's SubRoost set is one of the most fun sets ever. It has the raw power and the bulk is helped by Pressure. I'd argue Kyurem is more on B-, but that's just me.

 

[RotomPoison]

Some random stuff from the analysis list

View attachment 7614 > B-/C+
Breloom kinda got screwed this gen, with the Spore nerf and the Low Sweep "buff" to 65 BP, not to mention all the flying-type priority all over the place. He's still decently effective with most of his sets though, and technician mach punch and bullet seed are as obnoxious as ever.

View attachment 7615 > D
Literally the only reason this guy got used last gen was weather wars. Now that that's over with (thank god) I'm not sure what you would even use him for - I guess to trap Tyranitar if you're really worried about it?

View attachment 7616 > B+/B/B-
I haven't used or seen Kyurem yet, but he can only have benefited from the increased emphasis on bulk and power and decreased emphasis on speed. His only major problem now is being partly outclassed by Kyurem-B (Mold Breaker is surprisingly useful on special sets).

Come on, Breloom isn't THAT bad. You can't Spore Grass types, name relevant Grass types outside of Mega Venusaur switching in on Breloom. Bullet Seed is extremelly powerful and Mach Punch is pretty useful priority, while Rock Tomb lets him hit and lower the Speed of many Flying types that would outspeed him (-Smogonbird)

Dugtrio is used to eliminate nearly any 1 grounded Pokemon. Not as useful anymkre, but that is a niche not many other Pokemon have. Trapping Heatran for Genesect just makes it usable, not much more then that.

See above post on Kyurem.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

163243"]
View attachment 7615 > D
Literally the only reason this guy got used last gen was weather wars. Now that that's over with (thank god) I'm not sure what you would even use him for - I guess to trap Tyranitar if you're[/quote]
He's a good talonflame partner, as he threatena two out of the three stops to it in tran and ttar


edit; i hate cellphones.

 

[Antibiotic]

It wasn't just a few pages back its been brought up many times and never been disputed until now.
First off X is a sweeper Y is a wallbreaker like mega chomp and kyurem-b it's not meant to sweep its meant to punch huge holes in the opponents team which it does better than anyone not named aegislash. Also Ttar should not be switching in as Y often runs focus blast mainly for ttar itself. Politoed is not truly a counter as Y still hits hard with focus blast after rains up but what happens to a toed once y switches into it. It switches out or dies as it is all but useless with sun up. Also Y is the second fastest wall breaker in the game falling short of only specs keldeo while also packing the most punch thanks to its sun boosted fire blasts.
It's role is similar to that of Kyogre in ubers both use huge spatk and self summoning weather to hit hard with boosted stabs. If Y doesn't fit the description of A+ Wallbreaker then what does?

Y has a bit more edge in power, but I think X competes as a wallbreaker itself. X's Flare Blitz is close to the power of Sun boosted fire blast, and becomes more powerful at +1. A 4x stealth rock weakness is just too big of a flaw to consider it better than some of the slightly weaker wallbreakers, such as MegaChomp, Charizard-X, and Landorus, who will get more opportunities to come in throughout a game because they don't have to worry about losing half of their health for coming in. I mean, you could slap a Choice Band on Darmanitan and do more damage than Charizard-Y. He might do more damage, but is he a better wallbreaker? And does being an A+ wallbreaker make you an A+ pokemon in OU? I don't feel like it does. Blissey/Chansey can pretty reliably wall Y as well. Again, don't take this as me saying Y is bad, he just has such a defining weakness. One that relegates most pokemon to NU/RU, and that, for consistency's sake, makes him outclassed by others, despite his superior damage.

 

[RotomPoison]

Y has a bit more edge in power, but I think X competes as a wallbreaker itself. X's Flare Blitz is close to the power of Sun boosted fire blast, and becomes more powerful at +1. A 4x stealth rock weakness is just too big of a flaw to consider it better than some of the slightly weaker wallbreakers, such as MegaChomp, Charizard-X, and Landorus, who will get more opportunities to come in throughout a game because they don't have to worry about losing half of their health for coming in. I mean, you could slap a Choice Band on Darmanitan and do more damage than Charizard-Y. He might do more damage, but is he a better wallbreaker? And does being an A+ wallbreaker make you an A+ pokemon in OU? I don't feel like it does. Blissey/Chansey can pretty reliably wall Y as well. Again, don't take this as me saying Y is bad, he just has such a defining weakness. One that relegates most pokemon to NU/RU, and that, for consistency's sake, makes him outclassed by others, despite his superior damage.

Charizard-Y has key advantages over everything in your post:

- Sun, powering up its own Fire Blast and allowing it to use Solarbeam, also changing the weather in the middle of a turn, meaning an opposing Politoed or TTar is forced to switch in
- Pure power, backed by sun and a huge SpAtk, backed by a great coverage movepool, Darmranitan wishes it got Dragon Claw, or Close Combat, or even ways to get around its own counters. (Heatran meet EQ, EQ, Heatran)
- Stop bringing up Blissey or Chansey as counters to -insert Pokemon- when a counter must be able to beat it, whereas Blissey and Chansey can only wall CharY, unless of course, it uses Flare Blitz

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Blissey and Chansey can only wall CharY, unless of course, it uses Flare Blitz

Flare Blitz is a death sentence for Charizard Y since the recoil will be immensely high. NOT a good idea.

 

[Antibiotic]

Charizard-Y has key advantages over everything in your post:

- Sun, powering up its own Fire Blast and allowing it to use Solarbeam, also changing the weather in the middle of a turn, meaning an opposing Politoed or TTar is forced to switch in
- Pure power, backed by sun and a huge SpAtk, backed by a great coverage movepool, Darmranitan wishes it got Dragon Claw, or Close Combat, or even ways to get around its own counters. (Heatran meet EQ, EQ, Heatran)
- Stop bringing up Blissey or Chansey as counters to -insert Pokemon- when a counter must be able to beat it, whereas Blissey and Chansey can only wall CharY, unless of course, it uses Flare Blitz

-A +1 Tough Claws Flare Blitz out damages a Sun Boosted Fire Blast. The difference before is not that much either. My general point with opposing weather is that it can easily force Charizard out, and decreases the effectiveness of FB/Solarbeam. Yeah, you can predict them coming in, but then you also run the risk of overpredicting and screwing yourself that way.
-Yes, Darmanitan wishes it got coverage, and is a far inferior wallbreaker. General point of this being that damage isn't everything, and just because Y's Fire Blast is more powerful that anything MegaChomp/Charizard X have right off the bat, doesn't make it a superior wallbreaker.
-Blissey and Chansey can definitely beat CharY. Toxic? S-Toss? Fire Blast and Focus Blast only have 8 PP. Chansey and Blissey definitely win out over them, and CharY will have to switch out. Which, as we already know, is bad because of how much Y hates switching.

 

[Eievui-Nymphia]

Deoxys-S is nerfed because Defog, the moves that removes the hazards, also removes the screens of the opponent.
If Deoxys-S is not a lead it's ponly a fast sweeper with 95 Base Attack. True that is too fast and that makes good but his oiffensive movepool is as good as other pokemon like Dragonite, Garchomp, Salamence, Latios, Gengar, Starmie, Jirachi, Mew, which his high offensive option an cause unexpected moves from them.

About the S Pokemon, MLucario, Aegislash and Genesect are in the Top. Venusaur (note that 30% if them aren't Mega) are around the 20st position or even higher. Doexys-S is in UU range in both PO and Smogon. True that event pokemon are underrated but people are using Genesect just fine.

 

[KztxL7]

Dugtrio has the ability to trap and kill a Mega-Lucario as well for what it is worth.

 

[Kawaii Kyouko]

-A +1 Tough Claws Flare Blitz out damages a Sun Boosted Fire Blast. The difference before is not that much either. My general point with opposing weather is that it can easily force Charizard out, and decreases the effectiveness of FB/Solarbeam. Yeah, you can predict them coming in, but then you also run the risk of overpredicting and screwing yourself that way.
-Yes, Darmanitan wishes it got coverage, and is a far inferior wallbreaker. General point of this being that damage isn't everything, and just because Y's Fire Blast is more powerful that anything MegaChomp/Charizard X have right off the bat, doesn't make it a superior wallbreaker.
-Blissey and Chansey can definitely beat CharY. Toxic? S-Toss? Fire Blast and Focus Blast only have 8 PP. Chansey and Blissey definitely win out over them, and CharY will have to switch out. Which, as we already know, is bad because of how much Y hates switching.

A wallbreaker doesn't set up. It just attacks and severly harms switch ins. And zard y's incredible power as well as good, not great, speed tier and respectable special bulk makes it a great asset. Drought also supports the team on it's own, so theres that. zard x shares the same rocks weakness pre-evo as well.

 

[TrippingRocks]

Flare Blitz is a death sentence for Charizard Y since the recoil will be immensely high. NOT a good idea.

Not saying Flare Blitz is a good move for Charizard Y (since it has redundant coverage with Fire Blast), but not using Flare Blitz because of its recoil? Does that mean Charizard X and Talonflame shouldn't run Flare Blitz either?

-A +1 Tough Claws Flare Blitz out damages a Sun Boosted Fire Blast. The difference before is not that much either. My general point with opposing weather is that it can easily force Charizard out, and decreases the effectiveness of FB/Solarbeam. Yeah, you can predict them coming in, but then you also run the risk of overpredicting and screwing yourself that way.
-Yes, Darmanitan wishes it got coverage, and is a far inferior wallbreaker. General point of this being that damage isn't everything, and just because Y's Fire Blast is more powerful that anything MegaChomp/Charizard X have right off the bat, doesn't make it a superior wallbreaker.
-Blissey and Chansey can definitely beat CharY. Toxic? S-Toss? Fire Blast and Focus Blast only have 8 PP. Chansey and Blissey definitely win out over them, and CharY will have to switch out. Which, as we already know, is bad because of how much Y hates switching.

Any weather starter that's not named "Tyranitar" is not very common in OU anymore. But yeah, opposing weather can mess up Charizard-Y's drought. However, weather wars are not nearly as common as they were in generation 5. Politoed is rarely seen now. Abomasnow is even seen less. Tyranitar won't have a fun time switching into Focus Blast and you don't even need to predict the Tyranitar switch in since Tyranitar is slower than Charizard. Hippowadon is 2HKO by fire blast unless he's the specially defenisve variant. Even then, he takes a big chunk of damage.

Charizard-X needs one turn to get to +1. While it isn't hard for him to find an opportunity to dragon dance, Charizard-Y does not need an extra turn and immediately hits hard off the bat. The drought that he provides can also be used to support his team. The only other drought pokemon that can compete with Charizard-Y is Ninetales, and Ninetales isn't all that great. Weather in general has taken a nerf, but not all is bad for Charizard-Y. His drought may only last for 5 turns, but he won't receive nearly as much competition from other weathers as he would've in the previous generation. Charizard-Y can also run a mixed set, packing earthquake to get rid of pesky Heatrans. Maybe Charizard-Y can't get past something like Chansey... but then again... Chansey is only THE most bulky special wall in the game, so I don't find it surprising that Charizard-Y's special attacks can't break through the best special wall in Pokemon.

 

[ShadowMarioGalaxy64]

Deoxys-S is nerfed because Defog

I'll stop you right here for a bit.
Deoxys-S uses Taunt! The foe's Mandibuzz has been taunted!
The foe's Mandibuzz cannot use Defog because of Taunt.

This argument should just end--I'm not just talking about you...that'd be silly. I'm talking about the general argument. Deoxys-S has ways around Defog. Rapid Spin, on the other hand, can be taken out with a coverage move (say, Fire Punch against Forretress and Excadrill, which also hits Genesect Super-Effectively).

If Deoxys-S is not a lead it's ponly a fast sweeper with 95 Base Attack.

How do you know that? How would you know that? I've run an Offensive Deoxys-S as the lead and it completely threw the opponent off. The Excadrill in question has a 50% chance of a OHKO when Deoxys-S uses Superpower (assuming 4HP/0Def).

True that is too fast and that makes good but his oiffensive movepool is as good as other pokemon like Dragonite, Garchomp, Salamence, Latios, Gengar, Starmie, Jirachi, Mew, which his high offensive option an cause unexpected moves from them.

One would use Deoxys-S for its natural speed. If not, you're not using it for the right reasons.

About the S Pokemon, MLucario, Aegislash and Genesect are in the Top. Venusaur (note that 30% if them aren't Mega) are around the 20st position or even higher. Doexys-S is in UU range in both PO and Smogon. True that event pokemon are underrated but people are using Genesect just fine.

Usage doesn't equal actual strength and weakness. Please...usage is a lame excuse to judge a Pokemon.

Now...can we PLEASE STOP TALKING ABOUT DEOXYS-S!? I don't think any of us want this thread derailed YET AGAIN to have it locked YET AGAIN and have us wait until the bullsh** is removed YET AGAIN!

Not saying Flare Blitz is a good move for Charizard Y (since it has redundant coverage with Fire Blast), but not using Flare Blitz because of its recoil? Does that mean Charizard X and Talonflame shouldn't run Flare Blitz either?

A Recoil move against Chansey/Blissey is a pretty bad idea in general. Charizard X and Talonflame have recoil-less options to use. Flare Blitz is a good move on these Pokemon, but avoid using them against the Blobs...you'll either die or become crippled thanks to the health loss (704 HP on Chansey...remember that it divides by three).

 

[jc104]

You can't just make your arguments and then try to forbid people from responding.

There is nothing wrong with talking about deoxys-s, and you are quite capable of ignoring the discussion if you so wish.

 

[Rotosect]

I'll stop you right here for a bit.
Deoxys-S uses Taunt! The foe's Mandibuzz has been taunted!
The foe's Mandibuzz cannot use Defog because of Taunt.

This argument should just end--

No, this is the part where Mandibuzz 2HKO's Deoxys-S with Knock off/Foul Play and then she uses Defog. Result: you lost your hazard setter and your hazards.
Deoxys-S is good at its job but it's not the end-all be-all hazard setter and its presence doesn't make your team immune to Defog.

 

[Numera]

You can't just make your arguments and then try to forbid people from responding.

There is nothing wrong with talking about deoxys-s, and you are quite capable of ignoring the discussion if you so wish.

there is a problem if people keep going on about it and start saying stupid things trying to prove its not S rank, flooding up the chat where a decent discussion about other pokemon could take place.
The post Shadow just quoted is a prime example of this problem.

Rotosect its comon sense to set up hazards AFTER mandi is gone. Mandi is a deffoger that actully threatens Deo S.

 

[TrippingRocks]

I'll stop you right here for a bit.
Deoxys-S uses Taunt! The foe's Mandibuzz has been taunted!
The foe's Mandibuzz cannot use Defog because of Taunt.

This argument should just end--I'm not just talking about you...that'd be silly. I'm talking about the general argument. Deoxys-S has ways around Defog. Rapid Spin, on the other hand, can be taken out with a coverage move (say, Fire Punch against Forretress and Excadrill, which also hits Genesect Super-Effectively).

Just because you can stop something doesn't mean that it's not a nerf. Defog is a new way of getting rid of hazards. In the previous generations, only rapid spin could get rid of hazards. Now hazard setters have to worry about rapid spin AND defog. Deoxys-S is extremely fast, so he could stop defoggers. He is one of the better hazard setters in OU. In my eyes though, a pokemon dedicated to setting up hazards is no longer good in this generation. It's viable still, but I don't see it having much success unless you make a hyper-offensive team. Just because Deoxys-S has "ways" around defog or even rapid spin (like with coverage moves), there's no denying that it is indeed easier to remove hazards off the field. If Deoxys-S is the only thing standing between your hazards and an incoming defog, you're going to lose your hazards quickly. Deoxys-S does not have the longevity to reliably deny defoggers.

His best set by far is his offensive set.